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Topic : 01/07 Omaha Mall Shooting: A Mother’s Guilt

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Created on : Tuesday, December 30, 2008, 05:12:36 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
On December 5, 2007, Robert Hawkins walked into the Von Maur Mall in Omaha, Nebraska carrying an AK-47 rifle and 30 rounds of ammunition. The troubled 19-year-old gunned down eight people and wounded two others before taking his own life in what's been called the deadliest mall shooting in U.S. history. Robert’s mother, Molly, says she can't get over the guilt. Could this massacre have been averted? Did the grieving mom miss warning signs that would have foretold her son’s shooting spree? Dr. Phil asks the tough questions and takes a brutally candid look into this tragedy. Then, he speaks with Debora, a woman who says she took Robert in after he fell out with his parents. Find out what Debora says she witnessed just days before the teen’s murderous rampage. And, Jeff, a survivor of the Omaha mall shooting, faces off with Molly for the first time on Dr. Phil's stage. Plus, don’t miss the warning signs that your child is headed down a dangerous path. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.


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January 9, 2009, 5:33 pm PST

People KILL People, not guns!

Quote From: furby0001

Anyone who believes AK47's have any business being in people's homes contributed to these deaths. Period.  GUNS KILL.  THEY KILL QUICKLY.   This wouldn't have happened w/o GUNS.
When was the last time you saw a gun, any gun do anything without a human at the controls. I'll keep my gun and you can keep the "Change"!
 
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January 9, 2009, 8:32 pm PST

Peggy Leonard

Quote From: peggy50

Dear Dr. Phil,

   After watching this show, I had to respond about something you said. You said if a child has extreme mental problems, you should go get help. My question is... where is this " help" ?

  I have a 15 yr. old son with major mental problems. I have tried the last 4 years to find this boy help. He is making our home life an absolute hell on earth. I have found there is not much of help out there for mentally ill kids. I have even e-mailed your show 8 times looking for help... no respond. I've just accepted the fact that there is nothing out there. The crazy laws , as they are, a 14 yr. old mentally ill person, can make the decision to take meds or not. I find it crazy but true.

  I just think we shouldn't throw stones at the families of these mentally ill people, you don't know what they tried to do to get help.

                                                                                    Thanks,

                                                                                       Peggy Leonard

 

It seems like you and I are in the same boat.  I've been trying to find help for my son Tyler for the past 4 years~ and the laws keep stopping me. I was wondering what State your in??  My son is listed as a 3b instead of a 3c (3b is truant and misbehaving  3c is mentally ill)... I was literally told by social services that our county will not list a child as a 3c no matter what~ so he can't get the help he needs.  What is going to happen with all these mentally ill children when they turn 19??  They will be released into society~ and then what???  Someone needs to do something before something like the Omaha shooting happens again
 
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January 10, 2009, 7:42 am PST

01/07 Omaha Mall Shooting: A Mother’s Guilt

Quote From: ranai123

Yes And if you need an example of our next shooter just read the message titled "I'm Speechless" from alexa929904. She has done everything she can for her son and yet now he is 17, almost to the point where she can no longer intervene. He is not getting any better even with professional help. He is actually getting worse and when he turns 18 he is on his own to deal with his mental problems. Not too long from now. If he decides to kill someone, who are we going to blame then? Not his mother, she has done all she can for him. Sounds to me that this type of person can and in fact does come from any kind of family or background. I think the Omaha man's mother should not have walked away from her son. But it is very likely that even if she had tried everything to help him, he would have still done the same thing.

You comparing the mother on the show to some of these parents that are posting? The mother on the show walked away she didn't spend her time looking for help for her son she let others support her son and they didn't do a good job of it. Are we going to see children from good homes go bad, sure we are but its NO where compared to the to the children that come from homes that abuse them. Look at our prisons they are not filled with children from good homes they are filled with men and women that come from parents that abandon them abused them ignored them, this has a impact on us when we allow people like this to  breed. The mother on this show does have a part in who her child became she did not do what she needed to do to protect her child, she did what was easier for her to do and that was walk away and let this child be raised by abuse, sexual and phyical. She did not fight for him advocate for him she just gave birth to him and left him.

 

I would like to know how you came up with that if this kid was raised with love and not sexual and phyical abuse he would still be the same person dealing with the same issues.

 
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January 10, 2009, 8:04 am PST

01/07 Omaha Mall Shooting: A Mother’s Guilt

Quote From: furby0001

Anyone who believes AK47's have any business being in people's homes contributed to these deaths. Period.  GUNS KILL.  THEY KILL QUICKLY.   This wouldn't have happened w/o GUNS.

Anything can be made into a weapon of convenience, a hand , a knife, a car, a plane, and a toothbrush.ect. If was not a AK-47 then it would of been something else this young man would of used.

So please explain how  banding  the AK-47 will help and stop acts like these from happening??? If this person could not get his hands on a gun then he would of used the next thing that could be used as a weapon like a car killing just as many if not more. Its not the tool used to kill its the person using that tool that kills and thats the bigger issue and is impossible to stop, so people like you go to the gun as if the gun killed and not the person behind the gun to make yourself feel like you are doing something when in fact you are like the parents of this young man ignoring what is , because it is easier.

 
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January 10, 2009, 1:57 pm PST

Mom's can and do walk away!

Dr. Phil:
I was amazed by the comment that you couldn't understand how a mom could walk away from a child for 10 years.  I think you're very naive and believe everyone does the right thing.  After reading so many of the comments, there are a lot of parents at their wits end and for their own sanity, I can understand how some could walk away.

This mom had very little choice if her ex-husband had child protective services called and continual police visits.  On a recent show there was a man that said his ex-wife was brainwashing the child to hate the father and making things up to make him look guilty of things.

As the mother of a son falsely accused by an ex-wife (because he was late with a child support payment) of inappropriate behavior and investigated by child custody, I know how close he was to walking away from his child to spare her from the constant lies being told.  Once the payment was received, the mom recanted her story.  This happened several times.

As the aunt of a boy abandoned by his mother at age 2 who is now 20 and having had to go live with her due to his father's illness, I see how she is frustrated trying to regain contact with a child/man she doesn't know.  He called me long distance many times after having either been thrown out of the house or talking suicide.  He's now back with his father, working on his GED while I'm trying to get him some help for his depression.

These things exist -- the helpless feeling a parent has when an ex-spouse harasses them and a feeling that it's best for all to walk away, and a child who at adulthood hasn't learned (or is mentally unable to learn) the skills to cope.  Sadly, not everyone will recognize or will be too stressed and frustrated themselves to see those signs to stop something bad from happening.

terrif360
 
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January 10, 2009, 3:25 pm PST

THE OBVIOUS SOLUTION!

Up here in Canada when we hear of your high rate of crime down there to the south of us, we just shake our heads. SO many of you Americans have deluded yourselves into thinking that you NEED guns in your homes to protect yourselves. And what ends up happening? Children, disturbed adolescents, certain desperate, depressed people, drug crazed individuals, volatile types with anger management issues just open a drawer in the heat of the moment most of them, and use that gun that is meant to protect you AGAINST you!!! Here are the stats: In 2000 the United States' rate for robberies was 65 percent higher, its rate for aggravated assault was more than double and its murder rate was triple that of Canada. And that is per capita so it has nothing to do with our smaller population.
Your government talks about how our border is lax and we let terrorists into your country. Well, it goes both ways because guns are coming across the border in this direction and the criminal element is armed and that is a big threat to our citizens.

Myself, I have never even SEEN a real gun. We are not allowed to own guns here in Canada. Only hunters own guns which are registered. But there is a loophole. There are also shooting clubs that permit guns but 'apparently' there are police checks and strict regulations such as keeping the gun at the club locked etc... But wouldn't you know it, that poor disturbed, boy from India living here in Montreal got his family members to sign that he was of sound mind and was responsible enough to own an AK47!!! And the result was the Dawson College massacre several years ago.

Canadians are very concerned about the number of guns that there are in circulation that get past the border and are even acquired by legal means as I mentioned above.

Wake up America and smell the gunpowder! It is coming from the smoking guns that are stored under your own beds! Get rid of them and sleep soundly at night!
 
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January 10, 2009, 3:31 pm PST

01/07 Omaha Mall Shooting: A Mother’s Guilt

Quote From: getrealtime

Anything can be made into a weapon of convenience, a hand , a knife, a car, a plane, and a toothbrush.ect. If was not a AK-47 then it would of been something else this young man would of used.

So please explain how  banding  the AK-47 will help and stop acts like these from happening??? If this person could not get his hands on a gun then he would of used the next thing that could be used as a weapon like a car killing just as many if not more. Its not the tool used to kill its the person using that tool that kills and thats the bigger issue and is impossible to stop, so people like you go to the gun as if the gun killed and not the person behind the gun to make yourself feel like you are doing something when in fact you are like the parents of this young man ignoring what is , because it is easier.

In 2000 the United States' rate for robberies was 65 percent higher, its rate for aggravated assault was more than double and its murder rate was triple that of Canada. The MORE weapons there are available to unstable, suicidal, depressed, angry, drug crazed, psychotic, desperate, angry people, the MORE LIKELY they are to use them. Taking a line of Dr. Phil's...Create a target rich environment. I know that he applies that to dieting. If you have an environment with no tempting foods you are more likely to succed with a diet. The same goes with weapons. If there are no guns around, people are less likely to kill, plain and simple. A gun kills from a distance. A knife is messy and often requires a fight. Just look again at our stats up here in Canada and wake up and smell the gunpowder! The smoking guns are under your own beds, America!
 
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January 10, 2009, 3:32 pm PST

You reap what you sow.

Quote From: getrealtime

You comparing the mother on the show to some of these parents that are posting? The mother on the show walked away she didn't spend her time looking for help for her son she let others support her son and they didn't do a good job of it. Are we going to see children from good homes go bad, sure we are but its NO where compared to the to the children that come from homes that abuse them. Look at our prisons they are not filled with children from good homes they are filled with men and women that come from parents that abandon them abused them ignored them, this has a impact on us when we allow people like this to  breed. The mother on this show does have a part in who her child became she did not do what she needed to do to protect her child, she did what was easier for her to do and that was walk away and let this child be raised by abuse, sexual and phyical. She did not fight for him advocate for him she just gave birth to him and left him.

 

I would like to know how you came up with that if this kid was raised with love and not sexual and phyical abuse he would still be the same person dealing with the same issues.

Exactly,...you reap what you sow.
 
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January 10, 2009, 3:49 pm PST

THe 2nd amendment is not a verse from the Bible

Quote From: getrealtime

The 2nd Amendment give us the right to bare arms to protect ourselfs and should not be given away so lightly. A attack  and the need for guns is hard for many to understand, But what about a natural disaster like hurricane  that you are left to defend your family and home from those who take that opportunity to take what is not theirs by any means they need to do so. NO phones NO police just you  remembering that you voted to give your right away to defend and protect your family while leaving the guns still in the hands of those that will do you harm.  Some should think of this, and stop thinking that it can't happen to you.

Americans are just so darned hung up on the 2nd amendment. You would think that the right came straight from God! We have no 2nd amendment up here in Canada and thank the Lord we do not. I could not buy a gun if I wanted to. If I had anyone unstable in my environment, they could use that gun against me. If there was an intruder, he would undoubtedly overpower me and use the gun on me and my family. I would NOT want a gun anywhere near me. And I would be nervous letting my children play at other people's homes because I would worry that there were guns there. But I KNOW that no one owns guns here. Unless...they are the criminal element who has smuggled them in from guess where....the USA! Yes, you can kill someone deliberately with almost anything including your bare hands...but let's face it, in a fit of rage, a deranged person, a druggy, an angry and depressed person who is just pushed over the edge will not be as likely to kill if there are no guns in his or her immediate environment. We Canadians are not any less inclined towards violence than you Americans. That is not why there is far less crime here. I do believe though that because you have more very rich and very poor, some American people living in abject poverty are very discouraged and desperate in the US. WIth Medicare for all under Obama, as we have here in Canada, this should help. Here are the stats and the last one cannot be disputed. Guns kill! : in 2000 the United States' rate for robberies was 65 percent higher, its rate for aggravated assault was more than double and its murder rate was triple that of Canada. Throw out that ridiculous 2nd amendment and wake up and smell the gunpowder. It is coming from your own smoking guns!
 
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January 10, 2009, 3:56 pm PST

GUNS + PEOPLE = Violence and Murder

Quote From: rustyblade

When was the last time you saw a gun, any gun do anything without a human at the controls. I'll keep my gun and you can keep the "Change"!
The equation is PEOPLE + GUNS = VIOLENCE. If you remove one part of the equation....GUNS....you greatly reduce the resulting violence and murder.
Here are some statistics: In 2000 the United States' rate for robberies was 65 percent higher, its rate for aggravated assault was more than double and its murder rate was triple that of Canada. We are not allowed to own guns here in Canada unless we are hunters who are licensed to own rifles. There are gun clubs but there are strict rules there for ownership of guns. For example the guns must not leave the club and they are under lock and key. There is of course a criminal element here and THEY are the ones who get their hands on guns. And where do those guns come from?....The United States of America! Thank you, America!
 
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