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Topic : 01/13 Little Boy Lost

Number of Replies: 492
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Created on : Friday, January 09, 2009, 02:26:33 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
What would you do if your little boy wanted to be a little girl? Dr. Phil continues the heated topic of gender-confused kids. After the last show, viewers had a lot to say about the subject, and the message boards lit up with their impassioned opinions. Now, Dr. Phil speaks with Toni, a mother who says she can’t stop grieving the loss of her son who, at 11, began to transition into a female. Toni feels like her son has died, and she’s having a hard time adjusting to having a daughter. Joining the discussion is family researcher Glenn Stanton and psychologist Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, who say it’s the parents' responsibility to guide their children into their gender-born identities. On the opposite side are psychiatrist Dr. Dan Siegel and psychotherapist Dr. Michele Angello, who say children are born this way, and parents should support their children in their decision to transition to the opposite sex. What do you think is the best way to treat a child with gender identity confusion? Don’t miss the heated debate as Dr. Phil continues to explore this fervid and hotly contested topic. Then, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

January 13, 2009, 7:50 am CST

lost boy

Today's show was pro - vs.  anit- homosexuality.  The show was also about nature vs. nurture.  I do not believe that anyone is born homosexual. It is a choice.   Heterosexuality is natural and normal.  Using children to justify homosexuality is so wrong.  Children struggle with all kinds of things.  I see it all the time in schools.  Adults in a child's life causes problems for children. The mom in this show was so closed minded about the other side.  She was so angry at them she would not even listen to anything they had to say.  She did not want to here them because she did not want to face the fact that she did have another choice for her child.  Why not search for all the options instead of settling.  Where was dad?  Why was he not there also?  This family can get all the therapy they want but it will be a struggle the rest of their lives. 
 
January 13, 2009, 7:59 am CST

The responsibilities of an opinion

It is most important to keep in mind that as a debater we must respect that the other side has an opinion that they feel is valid and despite our emotions we should give them the respect that we wish to haveeb. No argument cand stand on its own without supporting empiracle data, facts. This absolute truth cannot be ignored.

 

The Tori lady on the show with the little girl who has a penis (how else to put it?) Might have valid data to support her opinion but was too emotional to even try to present it, instead repeating phrases like "you're wrong, I don't have to listen to this." This, for one make terrible television, but anyone who can't respect the debate like this lady shouldn't be allowed to participate.

 

It is safe to say that both sides of this argument are missing data to  completely support their theses. Both have valid points. Both sides of this argument cointain people who aren't interested in any truth that isn't convenient for them.

 

With that out of the way, I'll present my brief opinion: Our children are dear to us and it is our responsibility to love and suppor them as well as guide the  towards what we know is good and right in order that they have the oppourtunity to  make educated decisions and once they make those educated decisions we should find a way to support those decisions, no matter how inconvenient. It's a fine line we MUST wallk between freedom of self and responsibility of discipline.

 
January 13, 2009, 8:01 am CST

Disgusted

This women whom lets her son live as a girl kept running her mouth so much, I wanted to reach through the TV and slap her to get her to SHUT UP. It's apparent that she needs counseling, cause she is so angry and vile against other points of view! I felt sorry for the two men who tried to talk to share their view--but the vile women would not shut up long enough for them to do it. Why Dr. Phil did you not tell her to shut up and let the other men speak--it's called RESPECT--which she did not show one ounce to these men!! Next time I see you letting some person take over your show and not let anyone else speak nor show respect to the others on the show--I will promptly turn your show off!   
 
January 13, 2009, 8:03 am CST

lost boy

I would like to comment on the dr who said that bonding with the same sex parent could hinder the sex identiy of his or her child.  I think that you are so wrong in so many ways.  I myself have four boys, we are a two parent home with a loving father and a loving mother.  I want my children to be so close to us that they can tell me anything and be honest to us and themselves.  What if dr., the child only has a mother to bond with or a father to bond with.  You have said in essense to not bond to closely with your child that it will be a negative way of life.  you disgust me by saying you love children and are worried about the family and the child.  How could you sit on the show and say that the child needs to do more gender specific and bond with the same sex parent to not become what they feel.  I have a seven year old son who when he was 2 wanted a baby, so we got him a boy baby and he carried it around and loved it.  why is it not ok to just have a mother, father relatiolnship with your child and love UNCONDITIONALLY.  that is our job as parents; to protect and love by any means possible. 
 
January 13, 2009, 8:03 am CST

Appalled

I do not have any experience with this issue, but I was appalled at Toni's attitude that she knows everything that she needs to know to help her child. Her mind is closed to any new ideas. I am not saying that any of the experts on the show are right or wrong, but if I were in her position, I think I would be listening to all sides of the issues, and not just close my mind to issues that might conflict with my current thinking or be uncomfortable. If she were to open her mind, she might learn something. And on top of that, I feel she was rude to the Focus on the Family Team. One can disagree agreeably. i will pray for Toni and her family.
 
January 13, 2009, 8:05 am CST

Don't believe the therapist

I myself was close to women all through my childhood and I never had gendercofusion. I feel it's something that can't be helped. I feel the same as the scientist it is in the brain. It's not much different than depression, cancer, M.S., or any other disease or illness.
 
January 13, 2009, 8:10 am CST

1/13 little boy lost

     

 

     A few things came to mind as I watched today's show about transgenderism. I am the spouse of a transgender and have lived with this for 20+ years. We were high school sweethearts and married after my graduation from nursing school. He informed me 6 mos into our marriage and I was devastated. I am serious about my commitment and love him very much so we have worked at it. Denial was my main coping mechanism for many years and he dealt with it in the same way. Almost 10 years ago due to many family health issues, he was at a low spot-considering suicide and needing to do something. Today we have gone to counceling, he is getting hormone therapy, and we have told some family/ friends. Is it easy?? NO! Do I some days feel anger/resentment/confusion to him and life in general?  YES!! Do I still love the person inside who I have laughed with, cried with, and gone through some difficult times? VERY MUCH SO!! We are still trying to see where our future will be. I can honestly say we are not sure if we will be together in the far future. For this reason I need to comment on some points made today. I do see both sides since I live them---especially the "why me" thoughts at times and the "this is where we are at-why can't people live and not be judged" . Here goes:

 

1) The use of "normal" bothers me-as a nurse I deal with many and realize that there is no "normal". Since right handedness is more common, should left handed children be switched at an early age? Hitler felt blonde hair and blue eyes were normal too.

2) It seems the one group stresses that parental influence is more of a dominant factor. If so, anticipating no change in utero testosterone exposure, and the increase in single parent/ maternal headed households, why isn't there an increase in transgenderism? No male bonding.

3) If the father does bond with the child and the child continues to desire the opposite gender, what about feelings of failure/guilt? If the time to "intervene" is age 2-3, what about those who are not diagnosed or recognized to "have a problem" until later, what is their treatment? A 40 yo man trying to bond with his father at this age seems not appropriate. Are they "beyond reach"?

4) What about girls wanting to be boys? Still a lack of male influence? Do they still work to bond with a male figure?

5) Is their (parental bonding) treatment recognized/covered by insurance companies.

6) A general theme by them seems to stress  family dynamics and a dysfunction of these dynamics being a cause--potential for more stress/guilt/depression/blame. It is a multi facetted condition and cannot be dealt with in one way.

7) The panel members did seem to label many things that the mom did/said. Her drinking, mourning, and relationship with other family members

8) This is not a new condition-just one that has been kept hidden by society and individuals and named "drag queens", "gay", and other labels. 

 

My only final comment (sorry so long) is what would be the worse case scenario if people do become the other gender? It seems more a problem of acceptance by society. The rate of depression, suicide, abuse, and drug/alcohol use is so high, can we ponder that maybe it will decrease with PROPER identification and treatment.

 
January 13, 2009, 8:15 am CST

Speak your mind?

I was totally blown by this mothers rudeness. She was so domineering, rude, vocal and even called names. When you have to resort to name calling, you have lost it!! That is the problem with her boy. She is so domineering as a mother and person in real life. No wonder her child is confused. She would ask questions and then not allow the other two gentlemen to respond. It was a shouting match her her side and didn't allow these knowledgable men to speak what they know and have learned from experience in their lives.
I felt this was a one sided show and these men deserved more respect than was shown by the other 3 guests. Where was the father? That question was never answered. They tried to cover it up. That's why these kids are having problems...the marriages have fallen apart or there is a mother or father who is very domineering and the kids are confused by it all. I would like to know the statistics on how many kids have this so called disorder in single parent marriages versus a male and female marriage where both parents are involved in the raising of the kids.
I think these 3 guests have no scientific reasoning to back up any of their comments. That's why they had to resort to name calling which shows a small person. It was like watching kids on a playground taunting each other. When they couldn't come up with proof, they would call the other kid stupid. Come on...grow up and learn the facts. Don't run on emotion. And also, it's irrelevant if the two guys had a child with that problem. Did the other people have a child with that problem? No!! There's the sign!!
 
January 13, 2009, 8:20 am CST

01/13 Little Boy Lost

Quote From: fringold

"Exgay", gay, straight, pansexual, none of these terms apply to this discussion.  This episode is NOT about sexual orientation.  This episode is about GENDER IDENTITY.  And with the selection of so-called experts, I can't see this ending well.

I think it is useless to argue with someone who thinks that being a woman is an illness, and that behavioral modification or adversion therapy is best course to "cure" this girl before it is too late.  And to say that there is no such thing as gender identity disorder in children is daft.   This is not a precurser to homosexuality.  Gay men like being men.  Gay women like being women.  So again, I have to point out that this is not about sexual orintation.

I'll watch the show.  I'm pretty sure I know how this will go already, and that I will have more to say.

I think it's a complicated issue and that neither side has a complete answer. 

 

I would have liked to hear more from what each side is doing....as they are working with multiple cases...and less from the sarcastic mother who was clearly defensive.  She mocked and interrupted the ideas as if they were saying them to her.   Thetwo men on the left side clearly said that there wasn't a cookie cutter answer. Several times, they got "told" what their perspective was and then were interrupted, mocked or called out on some word usage that the other side didn't think was politically correct when they tried to clarify.    This was not helpful discussion and when they tried to quell the sarcasm, Dr. Phil stopped them again!!

 

What I'd like to hear more about is why there are hormone deficiencies, if there are enough hormones to make  certain genetalia in the first place?  How does DNA relate to hormones in such development?  I'd love to see each side spend time visiting the other's approach centers and see if they can come up with answers to the questions that the other isn't addressing. 

 

 

 
January 13, 2009, 8:24 am CST

Calm Down

While I 100% agree with Tony and her views on supporting her child, and totally agree that gender identification cannot be "programmed out" I think that she showed immaturity when she talked over the doctors on the opposing side and that she needed to allow them the format to discuss their views. Just as I would not like it if they had talked over her, she showed a close minded view that no one benefitted from. Come on Tony...you made the right decision for you, but what about allowing others to at least voice their opinions? It looked like you were defending something that needs no defense if you are comfortable with your decision. Very immature presentation. Again, I'm on your side, but be a grown-up!
 
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