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Topic : 01/13 Little Boy Lost

Number of Replies: 492
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Created on : Friday, January 09, 2009, 02:26:33 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
What would you do if your little boy wanted to be a little girl? Dr. Phil continues the heated topic of gender-confused kids. After the last show, viewers had a lot to say about the subject, and the message boards lit up with their impassioned opinions. Now, Dr. Phil speaks with Toni, a mother who says she can’t stop grieving the loss of her son who, at 11, began to transition into a female. Toni feels like her son has died, and she’s having a hard time adjusting to having a daughter. Joining the discussion is family researcher Glenn Stanton and psychologist Dr. Joseph Nicolosi, who say it’s the parents' responsibility to guide their children into their gender-born identities. On the opposite side are psychiatrist Dr. Dan Siegel and psychotherapist Dr. Michele Angello, who say children are born this way, and parents should support their children in their decision to transition to the opposite sex. What do you think is the best way to treat a child with gender identity confusion? Don’t miss the heated debate as Dr. Phil continues to explore this fervid and hotly contested topic. Then, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

As of January, 2009, this message board will become "Read Only" and will be closed to further posting. Please join the NEW Dr. Phil Community to continue your discussions, personalize your message board experience, start a blog and meet new friends.

January 10, 2009, 7:28 am CST

Excited, Suprised! Exgay on Dr. Phil!

I'm so happy to see Dr. Nicolosi and Stanton on the Dr. Phil show. I can't wait to see this. I'm not sure how it will go because typically, popular opinion is against exgays.  But I'm here to show my support. I hope that the prejudices against exgays and those of us who know that change is indeed possible aren't disrespected just because it is not a popular view these days.

I discovered reorientation therapy in 2003 and it has changed my life. I'm so much happier than i was before. I feel that I'm growing into my manhood.  It is such a relief especially when you have supportive friends to help you on the journey!  For those who want to pursue an "alternative lifestyle" that is their decision, but don't forget to support exgays as well. We do exist and we are not going away! If you support diversity, then support exgays too.

No amount of lies by opponents that exgays are not real will make change, for at least some, any less possible!  Change is possible. I have witnessed it in my own life!  Some say we are just bisexual. But taht is not true! During all my youth i was never attracted to females!

We are NOT stupid! We know who we are, and we know we have changed.  It is so distressing to listen to someone try to convince us that we've not changed. It is like someone trying to convince you that you are insane or crazy!  How would you like for someone to talk to you like that? We come from all walks of life. Some exgays are doctors, lawyers, etc. I'm a computer programmer for over 8 years now.

True some opponents feel that exgays are an insult to them.  I don't deny what i believe to be the truth about homosexuality. Yet if a person wants to pursue a particular way of life, that is his wish but please don't stop people who want change.

Though the previews weren't welcoming. i hope the overall show is more respectful than what I've seen in the past.  Best wishes!

(I am not in any way implying that people choose to be gay. That is another insult and it is a misapplication of what exgays believe and stand for. People don't choose to have homosexual inclinations. He can and does choose afterwards what type of life he will live and whether or not he will at least pursue a change in those inclinations. Exgays choose to change not only their behavior but also their inclinations!  Many of us succeed.  Some don't. But that is the same as with anything a person battles with. Ex-ex-gays prove that ex-gays are false just as much as ex-ex-smoker, who tried to quit but began smoking again, prove that ex-smokers are fake. Exgays exist and we are not going away!)

My hope is that this show will open the doorway for more RESPECTFUL discussion.
 
January 12, 2009, 3:08 pm CST

To each his or her own

    This topic is very near and dear to my heart. I have an older brother that is a year and a half  older than I am. He and I are best friends and know everything about each other. At least I thought. Two years ago, I was on his computer and found transexual websites and chatrooms. I was shattered. This was my older brother, my best friend, the only guy that I ever trusted and was there for me and he wanted to be a girl. We were raised differently. He was a lot like our mother, very emotional and would rather play with the dolls that I never wanted. I was the one who wanted to play outside with cars and make mudpies and he always wanted to stay clean and play house. It was always said that God must've messed up and put our personalitlies in the wrong body. I was more like a boy and he was more like a girl. He and I talked about what I found and he admitted that he always felt like a girl and was jealous that I had the chance to be "pretty" and never took it. I had caught him with a bra on, when he was eight. He shaved his legs when he was ten.

    We grew up in a small town and was raised that homosexuals were going straight to hell and anyone who agreed with it was joining them. I disagreed and always said, "Let he without sin, cast the first stone." I was the blacksheep of the family. Recently, he has decided that he should probably start being who he feels deep down. We have a younger brother, that doesn't know anything about my brother's sexual orientation and looks at him like he is the greatest thing ever. My older brother has engaged in sexual relations with a man and doesn't know how he feels about it. I love my brother and will stand by him and feel that if I can't stand by what will make him happy and whole, then I am not a good person or sister. I would be selfish to disreguard his feelings, because I am straight and have been told that it is wrong. I do worry about how my younger brother would handle seeing our older brother as a girl, though. I am torn about the subject, but do support him no matter what.  

  

 
January 12, 2009, 3:12 pm CST

Bad start

Quote From: jacobp

I'm so happy to see Dr. Nicolosi and Stanton on the Dr. Phil show. I can't wait to see this. I'm not sure how it will go because typically, popular opinion is against exgays.  But I'm here to show my support. I hope that the prejudices against exgays and those of us who know that change is indeed possible aren't disrespected just because it is not a popular view these days.

I discovered reorientation therapy in 2003 and it has changed my life. I'm so much happier than i was before. I feel that I'm growing into my manhood.  It is such a relief especially when you have supportive friends to help you on the journey!  For those who want to pursue an "alternative lifestyle" that is their decision, but don't forget to support exgays as well. We do exist and we are not going away! If you support diversity, then support exgays too.

No amount of lies by opponents that exgays are not real will make change, for at least some, any less possible!  Change is possible. I have witnessed it in my own life!  Some say we are just bisexual. But taht is not true! During all my youth i was never attracted to females!

We are NOT stupid! We know who we are, and we know we have changed.  It is so distressing to listen to someone try to convince us that we've not changed. It is like someone trying to convince you that you are insane or crazy!  How would you like for someone to talk to you like that? We come from all walks of life. Some exgays are doctors, lawyers, etc. I'm a computer programmer for over 8 years now.

True some opponents feel that exgays are an insult to them.  I don't deny what i believe to be the truth about homosexuality. Yet if a person wants to pursue a particular way of life, that is his wish but please don't stop people who want change.

Though the previews weren't welcoming. i hope the overall show is more respectful than what I've seen in the past.  Best wishes!

(I am not in any way implying that people choose to be gay. That is another insult and it is a misapplication of what exgays believe and stand for. People don't choose to have homosexual inclinations. He can and does choose afterwards what type of life he will live and whether or not he will at least pursue a change in those inclinations. Exgays choose to change not only their behavior but also their inclinations!  Many of us succeed.  Some don't. But that is the same as with anything a person battles with. Ex-ex-gays prove that ex-gays are false just as much as ex-ex-smoker, who tried to quit but began smoking again, prove that ex-smokers are fake. Exgays exist and we are not going away!)

My hope is that this show will open the doorway for more RESPECTFUL discussion.
"Exgay", gay, straight, pansexual, none of these terms apply to this discussion.  This episode is NOT about sexual orientation.  This episode is about GENDER IDENTITY.  And with the selection of so-called experts, I can't see this ending well.

I think it is useless to argue with someone who thinks that being a woman is an illness, and that behavioral modification or adversion therapy is best course to "cure" this girl before it is too late.  And to say that there is no such thing as gender identity disorder in children is daft.   This is not a precurser to homosexuality.  Gay men like being men.  Gay women like being women.  So again, I have to point out that this is not about sexual orintation.

I'll watch the show.  I'm pretty sure I know how this will go already, and that I will have more to say.
 
January 12, 2009, 8:32 pm CST

01/13 Little Boy Lost


cash8812, I do applaud your support and open-mindedness. I can see that this is a difficult thing to do. It is certainly delicate. People are not lab rats and should not be treated as such. I know from my own problem that anything that is done the person has to be willing to go along with it. It can only be harmful if a person is forced. All that person sees adn feels is rejection and a lack of love.  One can offer suggestions and if he is willing to go along with it fine.  But after a certain age, there simply isn't much that can be done unless he is willing to.


Nevertheless, the idea of years of hormone treatment and body mutilation is not pleasant to watch either. Honest, LOVING discusses are the best options once a person reaches a certain age.

I wish you and your family the best!
 
January 12, 2009, 8:56 pm CST

01/13 Little Boy Lost


fringold, I understand that you don't see the correlation. Yet, i do feel that same-sex or same-gender attraction is a mild form of gender identity disorder (GID). It is not as obvious but from my own experience I know for a fact there are mild similarities. In fact many of  us believe that can be an extreme form of SSA. 

I'll tell you my own story.  I've always identified as a boy as far as i know. But I've aways felt estranged from boys. I never really understood them either.  I spent a lot of time with girls and identified and felt more comfortable with girls. Many guys with ssa feel the same. Some are so engaged with girls that they take on more and more of their mannerisms. During my teen years, I rejected my whole body. True everyone feels skirmish about their bodies.  Like Peter Pan i did not want to grow up! I didnt  want to become a man!  I found men shameful, disgusting and inferior. Thus i was rejecting my own gender. I had a sarcastic remark about anything manly. I had no respect for it. It could be as small as giving each other a Hi-5!

I'm 30 now and I've been spending the last few years of my life repairing misconceptions, shame, wounds and barriers i have towards myself and my gender. It has really taken a lot of work.

I don't know a whole lot about GID. Fortunately i don't have it. But I feel that I'm just on the more masculine side of the spectrum.  There are many guys who lie much closer to GID than i do who still identify as men. Then you have those who did not when htey were younger, but later gradually adapted to their gender. Not all people with
GID stay that way.

Lesbianism is different from male homosexuality, yet there are many similarities. Someof the same principles apply just slightly different in some cases.

Best wishes.
 
January 13, 2009, 2:57 am CST

gender vs sex

Jacobp,  how does one gradually identify with one's gender, and then go back again?  I will tell you my point of view, I did not change my gender.  I started out allowing others to label me as a boy.  I played along, knowing that my life would be a very short one if I disagreed with what "they" had to say.  But, it got to the point that living a lie wasn't worth living.  I chose not to end my life, but rather take control and show everyone who I really am.  Let me tell you, it is much easier to be yourself, than to be what others want.  Now I live my life as the girl I should have been all along.

I was never a boy, I was never a man.  All that I did was a lie so my family would not throw me out into the streets, or the rest of society beat me to death.  I had enough beatings as it was.  I was married, in the Army, had 2 wonderful kids, and was depressed and medicated for over 20 years.  My wife has divorced me, my son wants nothing to do with me now (but says gender has nothing to do with it), and to my daughter I'm a hero.  To my parents I'm an ugly abomination, but they still love me.  The rest of my siblings are very loving and supportive.  The rest of the world sees me as a woman.  And to those who care to know, I'm a lesbian.

So, as far a labels are concerned, I'm an expert.  Gender identity is who you are, and sexual orientation is who you are attracted to.  Everyone has both.  You cannot say that because one is gay, that they have a gender identity disorder (mild or otherwise).  True, you can be both transgender and homosexual, but they are separate charateristics that have nothing to do with each other.

Now that I think about it, even the title "little boy lost" irks me.  Why isn't it "little girl found"?  Why does negetivity sell so much, and why do we buy into it?

Jabobp, I hope you are truely happy with who you are.  I myself have created numerous personalities to adhere to others expectations of me, and I was not happy.  Still, this is not about you nor me, but the welfare of a child who's parents have thrown her to the wolves for advice.  Now how would it sound, that if after this fiasco is over, the little kid says, "I used to be a girl in a boy's body, and now I'm an exgirl in a boy's body!"?  Oh, where is the humanity?


 
January 13, 2009, 6:35 am CST

Nurture vs Nature

What happens when a child is born with Klinefelter Syndrome (XXY) as this condition happens at the time of conception, it is something that God chooses for the mother and father to bear along with their child.

 

The child moves mentally towards feminine attributes while the parents try to guide the child back to the male gender as he was born with male genitals and they are unaware their child has this condition.  The norms of society dictate that males are males and anything different indicate homosexuality which is still taboo in our society.

 

The child wanted to play with dolls and dress like a little girl, the parents threatened to comply but added they weren't going to allow their little boy embarrass them by going to school dressed as a little girl.

 

I'm speaking of myself, I was born with Klinefelter syndrome and I was unaware of this condition until I was in my 30's and married.  I had a chromosone analysis done because my wife and I were having trouble conceiving children.  I was told I was "XXY" and was sterile and there was nothing that could be done, the doctor gave me no other information other than that.  I discovered more on my own as I researched the condition.  I'm since divorced.  Been single ever since.  In a college course it was suggested that children born with this condition are considered Transgendered, stuck between both worlds and able to choose between one sex or the other to follow.  I am now on male hormone therapy, but at this time in my life I'm very attracted to men, I don't know if it is my genetics or if it is because I matured out in my views, however I still choose to be with women because it is socially acceptable.

 

I don't understand why psychologists on your show have a problem with transgendered children thinking it is a nurture problem, nurturing only adds to the confusion.  Would they have the same problem with homosexual children / adults?  I understand the children go through stages in their development process, I took those college courses on childhood development too.  Parents love their children no matter what, whether they're gay or straight, so what's wrong with loving a transgendered child.  Unfortunately my parents are both deceased, they passed on without knowing my condition.  I accept I'm transgendered, though still follow society's norms, I feel very attracted to loving men sexually.  I dress as a man still as I'm somewhat handsome on the feminine side with youthful looks I feel because of my DNA condition.

 

Leave these children alone, allow them to follow their own path rather than add to their confusion.

 
January 13, 2009, 6:45 am CST

Wrong.......

I have a son that will son be 25, he claims to be gay. Yes, I have tried to except this but no, I do not want this for my son. But I do resent this so called Dr. on the show saying that being a single mother and loving your child is the reason that our children turn out this way. My son and his siblings, though growing up in a house that did not have your tipical father in there did have many male role models in their lives. So stop blaming others for children growing up to be who they are.

 

Until you yourself are there personnally, not just in research, you have no idea.

 
January 13, 2009, 7:42 am CST

This show really showed how hypocrital people are

    What I saw on this show was people accusing others of assuming and being judgmental, when at the same time they were the ones doing this. This "highly emotional" mother doesn't want anyone else to have an opinion. So everyone has to believe what her and the doctors on her side had to say. But it's absolutely wrong to believe what the "pro-heterosexual" doctors had to say,. right? And Dr. Phil who I agree with on some points, of course we should all be entitled to our own opinions, did kind of get under my skin when he accused the Dr. of editing the mother, when she was the one attacking the whole show. On top of that it's Dr. Phil's show, and really the mother was rebuking him for bringing her on that kind of show against her wishes or so she said ("I did not come for this"). Furthermore the Dr.'s on the mothers side said that some would get offended at the statement about "natural to be heterosexual, when at the same time they were saying one being trans-gender was natural. But who cares if anyone gets offended behind that,right? What they failed to do while completely dismissing the "pro-heterosexual Dr.s claim was admit that their studies or just theories. Instead just like evolution, being born gay and host of other things they continue to teach these theories like they're facts. This show really pointed out those who are one sided and who believe that their opinions are the only ones that should be heard and accepted. And it was the mother, the Dr.s on her side and everyone like this.     
 
January 13, 2009, 7:47 am CST

my opinion

ok 1st off i think that we are looking at this all wong. people alway call it a choice. as someone who has not bee through this situation but has been through sexual confusion for a long time, let me 1st say that it is not a choice. im a female nd i never woke up thinking wow i want to be interested in girls as well as guys today.thats not the way it happens.the same thing with these people. you feel something and you dont knw why you jus do. its not something you can help. to call ita choice is ignorance. i have a friend who is a guy that wants to be a girl and he has always felt that way. he didnt think it was cool and decide to follow it like a trend. second is that prents need to realize that it's hard enough being a kid without these feelings. the dont need to be judged or yelled at or treated like a freak or a bad person. they need to be loved. you may or may not like what your child is going through but they are so get over it and be a parent and be there for them. its nothing you did so let it go. as a kid i felt like te biggest thing in th world was making my parents unhappy. i never wanted to mak them mad at me or hate me. this is not something your cild shol be worried about when it comes to this . you chould not change the way you love them no matter what. i alwys thought that if i was bisexual my parents would hate me so i ignored it. that causd me to be very depressed because everytimei saw a pretty girl i felt ashamed. i lived a long time thinking that something was wrong with me and that i had a problem. it was the mos miseble thing ever. i can just emagine what these people go through. it is never ok to make someone fel likethis over something they can't control. to be honest it hasmessed up my relationship with my parents because i still haventtold them and i dont ever come to them about anything because i feel lke i will be judged. trust me you never want that. children who go through this need to know that they willbe loved no matter what. thatyou will always be there for them. that's what a parent is suppose to be, someone who loves you no atter what and isthere to help you through anything. please, dont make these kids feel bad for somethn they just feel. you cn hurt them in way you cant even imagine. and ty to remember that they are just children. they dont need to deal with the problems you are creating for them. in my opinion, just love them nd treat them the way you would anyone else. they will figure out there lives and you need to accept them and love them for who they are. if i offened you or made you mad that wasn't my goal, but i would never change how i feel because someone gets mad. i just am who i am and i would neve change that for anyone, thats what everyone should realize.
 
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