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Topic : 02/11 Octuplets Debate

Number of Replies: 461
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Created on : Friday, February 06, 2009, 02:13:19 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
For most single mothers, one child is enough of a handful, but when a 33-year-old woman in Southern California gave birth to eight premature babies -– in addition to the six children under the age of 8 she already has -- the country started talking! The mother of 14, Nadya, is keeping a low profile, but it is reported that all her children were created through in-vitro fertilization, an expensive and purposeful process. Questions are cropping up: How did she end up with eight embryos? How will she care for all of them? Who will pay these children’s expenses over the years? How do we take the children’s well-being into account in reproductive medicine? Dr. Phil and his panel of esteemed guests, including Dr. Jim Sears co-host of The Doctors, debate the ethical questions that have been raised. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

Find out what happened on the show.

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February 11, 2009, 8:35 am CST

Octuplet Outrage

Dear Dr. Phil,

 

  I am outraged by this blatant disregard for rules and regulations. I agree totally with everyone else, this doctor should loose his license FOREVER! This woman is truly mentally ill. For the sake of these 14 children they should be taken from her until she can provide for their needs according to basic rules of Children and Family Services. She should be given a specific amount of time (six months) to comply with these rules and if she cannot then the children should be taken away FOREVER!

 

  There are thousands of childless families in America who are praying for children to become available. Although it would be unfortunate for the children to be separated I don’t see many options for all 14 to be adopted together. So they should have an open adoption where all the families who adopt these children know about each other and are encouraged to get together. This way the children can grow up at least know each other. This seems to me like the most logical answer to save these 14 children who are innocent in this whole mess. Nadya shouldn’t even be able to bring these new children home; this needs to be addressed immediately so these children aren’t even exposed to her home lifestyle that falls so short of basic Children and Family Service rules.

 

  Also, if any company tries to offer her free food, diapers, or any help they should be viewed as irresponsible and they should be boycotted. In my opinion helping Nadya would be like helping meth addicts with food, money, or any help that would give them extra cash so they could build a meth lab and continue in their addiction. Enabling is not helping!

 

  I saw the financial breakdown you showed today and I wonder if Nadya had saved all that money for all the doctor bills ahead of time or if these bills are going to be paid by taxpayers? There is no reason in the world why the taxpayers should be responsible for her or her children. Specially when there are people with Medicare who can’t even get the medicine they need. Medicare part D has that donut hole where at a certain point people are left to pay for 100% of the cost of their medicines. There are some that can’t afford it so they go without some medications.

 

  Again, I would be outraged if these people had to go without medications while Nadya kept popping out children and the government kept paying the bills!

 
February 11, 2009, 9:06 am CST

Octuplets Debate

Quote From: kellski728

 I have issues with the way Dr. Phil spoke of this octuplate mom and then

the way he spoke to Kate. This octuplate mother din't intend on 8 children.

She was hoping to get one or two.  Dr. PHil said that that was crazy to iplant so many and

not  think it could happen!  If this women had twins only know one would even be talking about her!

 

When he talk to Kate of John and Kate plus 8, she also said that she implanted 6 only expecting

one or two childen.  She also said that she refused to terminate any. He never told her that she was irresponsible! or that her Dr's should have known better!  Where would Kate be right now if she wasn't being paid by TLC  for her show!  Kate also recieved free diapers formula etc..

 

Why is ok for Kate.. because she has a husband!  This octuplate mother was working befoe this!

She is also going to school and getting a degree to improve her life and help her family!

 

 

Have all the issues you want kiddo. Doesn't matter what the mother intended, the point is she already had six kids to raise at home. Who still need all of her care and attention as they are still very young. Do you think raising 6 kids is a walk in the park? What about their needs?  She sure as hell didn't need ONE OR TWO more.regardless of her intention her stupidity got her there.  Not Dr. Phil's.  Ever heard terms like.... ummmmm lets say, "POPULATION EXPLOSION?" or OVER POPULATING THE PLANET?" 

 

Kids everywhere on this planet are starving, lets take care of the ones already here from parents who didn't practice birth control when they should have.  If one truly loves children then we would concern ourselves with the task at hand. 

Tell me how is Nadya going to finish school?  Who will take care of her children while she does this? Who will foot the bill to buy food, clothing, etc.? And who in their right mind wants to babysit 14 kids who are 7 years old and younger.  Who is equiped to take care of 8 babies?

Most important who will rear them and guide them and prepare them and teach them living skills? Are you and those like you going to bring them a ham sandwich every day? 

This is the kind of thinking that lands us in hot water. People like you never have any solutions.  YOU make problems but someone else has to help get you out of your hell. You just keep adding to the problems at hand. Which is creating more difficulties then we are capable of handling and in most instances don't WANT to handle.

If Nadya was serious about expanding on her education, pregancy at this time would not have been an option for her.

 

 
February 11, 2009, 9:29 am CST

Give her a break...

Okay...I am a Mom of Six...my husband and I LOVE CHILDREN...I would have a half a dozen more if I could...but finanically we can't and I have accepted that. There is nothing wrong with a Mom who wants to have alot of children...No she is not married...nor does she have a job...it may have not been the smartest move on her part but that fact remains she now has 14 kids...get over it! I never see anyone putting down Jon and Kate...or the Duggars who have 18 kids! She had problems getting PG...wanted a large family...the Dr. did as she asked....the Dr. is not too blame. That is his job and how he gets paid! I believe everything happens for a reason....and if God wanted her to have just one or 2 more than only one or 2 of the embryos would have taken...but God had bigger plans for her and blessed her with 8 more babies! That is a miracle...and it is a miracle that she is okay and those babies have survived. Yes they may have problems due to being premature...but God would not have let those babies survive if he did not think she could handle it. I am not a religious person...I do not attend church every Sunday...but I do believe in God and that things do happen for a reason...and that is why I am stressing this. I also believe things will work out...they always seem to. We cannot change what she did....it is done and over with...Yes I agree with everyone it was not the smartest thing to do...but it is done and again and now there are 8 more precious babies....if that would have happened to me I would have been overwhelmed with joy and having to abort any of those babies for a better chance and less of a risk to me would not have been an option either. Bottom line...it is her life...and it is a miracle from God that it happened! I think everyone needs to quit criticizing her and just back off a bit.
 
February 11, 2009, 10:07 am CST

To Strong Woman

Quote From: strong_woman

I am surprised at the negativity that this situation is getting ... Do I believe that this woman of 6 children , 3 of whom are already disabled , or have problems , should have went and had any type of proceedure to have yet another child , and in this case 8 children ... Most definetly not , BUT WE DO NOT LIVE IN CHINA !!!

I heard the other day that the state of California was thinking of suing the doctor that done the procedure ... THEY CAN NOT DO THAT ... let me tell you , either way he would have gotten sued ... IF HE HADNT DONE THE PROCEDURE THE WOMAN WOULD HAVE SUED HIM .... and now the state is going to try ....

 

The woman must have some money , GO AFTER HER ..... she doesnt have a job ok , but she had to have paid for the procedure some how those are not free .......

 

 

I guess my biggest thing is that we do not live in China and we dont have a limit on how many children we can and can not have .....

 

 

No one said it was China...It's called being sensible. People in China were breeding like church mice. They were way WAY over populated. Parents in China couldn't feed their kids YET they continued having more children. The authorities were finding dead babies in garbage cans mostly females. Now they are limited too having 2 children per family..Serious and extreme measure for serious and extreme problems. SMART...Who needs more than two children?

If the population acts irresponsibly and have children they can't possibly take care of, measures/laws have to be put in place. BEFORE the fact. 

Freedom comes with another word attached to it..Called 'RESPONSIBILITY." In North America we have babies having babies. We over indulge ourselves in all of our whims and fancies here. It's not the adults that suffer, its the children. Regardless of what your thinking is, Bringing kids into this deeply already impoverished world is just plain selfish and very immature. WE don't have adequate restrictions in our very civilized countries. And it's obvious very few have parenting skills. So if people aren't smart enough to know they first need to be educated in healthy parenting skills BEFORE having children they should NOT have children. So many come from dysfunctional homes and what do they do??  They turn around and start a whole other generation of dysfunctional human beings.

 

Why are so many grand parents raising their grand children today? Hell they didn't get it right the first time around n many many cases. So now they will screw it up all over again.  Some grand parents don't see the parents from one year to the next. These are HUMAM beings PEOPLE !  With hearts and souls. Not litters of kittens. Some female cats make better mothers by the way.

My father used to say," having off springs is easy, an animal can do that, but try raising them to NOT behave like animals takes a strong healthy minded parent." Too many people having babies that don't have the sense of a plant. How can they raise productive, thriving citizens that don't make victims out of others and don't become a burden to society?

 
February 11, 2009, 10:22 am CST

Octuplet Mom

ADOPTION - that is the only realistic answer to this mess.  I feel sorry for ALL of the kids - the six at home as well as the new ones.  Her parents are so stressed and the dad said he would have to leave the country just to get a job to help  out!  If this woman was stable, she would have never considered having any more children.  The precious ones she already has must have gotten too old for her "needs".  There are so many loving people out there who really want children and for one reason or another cannot.  This mother needs to face reality and put them up for adoption NOW.  Yes, it will be hard to part with these little babies - but it is IN THEIR BEST INTEREST now and in the future.  It is there only hope.  At this point I don't even see how the other six can possibly be receiving adequate nurturing.  The grandmother is at her wit's end and I am sure heartbroken to feel as she does.  Her daughter betrayed her and her husband by going behind their back using monies she received from some settlement.  Instead of using that money to make more babies, she should have used it wisely to get a home of her own for her and her six children!  Or, at the very least helped pay for the home she has taken over.  There is NO ROOM for all of those people under that small roof.  At this rate, even with all the "Help" she expects to receive, those children will be neglected - and in short it is a form of abuse!  Hopefully child protective services will do the right thing - take the kids away and the mother should immediately put the new ones up for adoption.  After she gets mental health help, then she can go back to school and if she can get a job and provide, then get her six back!  If the taxpayers are the ones who will have to foot the bill - then they have the right to have a voice in how these kids are taken care of - ADOPTION NOW!!!!!  
 
February 11, 2009, 10:34 am CST

hello

 i dont understand  why everyone is so worried about this women that had these babies. I do understand that she had emborys inplanted but back in the day women had 10 or more kids some one after another and they couldnt take care of them . also they didnt have a big house to rise them but they came out to be fine. nobody ever said anything about the women back in the day for having to many childern so why is it such a big issuse.  again i do  understand she is a single mother  but if she wanted more then one child then so be it. I just dont see whats so bad about this women wanting to have this children all that matters is that they are loved and taken care of. My grandma had 6 live births and her mother had 13 kids so i really dont understand .Has anyone really asked her if she wanted to have 8 babies at a time? well i guess im not seeing the problem with this women having these babies.
 
February 11, 2009, 10:37 am CST

Mom of 8 finds this situation disturbing

My Husband and I are the parents of 8 children. 2 by birth and 6 by adoption. 5 currently live at home. One of our boys was so organically psychologically  damaged by his birth mothers drug and alcohol use during pregnancy that he lives in a Therapeutic Group Home. He is extremely impulsive and violent and cannot live in a "family" setting. His Psychiatrist was amazed we made it 8 years with him.  Our 2 eldest children are grown and on their own and doing quite well.  We still have 5 at home. Twin boys with ADHD age 12,  11yo girl who is slightly DD (same bio mom as child in Group Home). 9yo girl with FAS, and our littlest guy has Noonan's Syndrome, Mild CP, an Aspergers.  They are all amazing and an incredible blessing to my husband and I.

  We did not set out to adopt this many  children. As foster parents we found ourselves receiving the siblings of children we already had in our home. Again we would not change our life for anything. We are not on assistance. My husband works for the USPS. He has for 25years. I am a SAHM and I homeschool 3 days a week and they attend classes through our School Districts Independent Scholar Program 2 days per week.

We have a small farm and the children all have 4-H animals and the chores that go along with them.

All this to say that raising special needs children is an enormous task for an intact, married couple with an average income. To try to raise 14 children , several with Special needs by yourself  with no viable income or partner is simply impossible!

Yes, this woman may be crazy, yes she is irresponsible,possibly narcissistic,  but she needs a good Psych Eval and the children need a stable home to grow up in.

What are the answers? I am not sure. The babies are here. There are 14 little children carrying the responsibility of fulfilling Mom. YIKES!  Someone needs to step in and get her mental help. Someone needs to step in and help care for those children. Whether or not we like the "how" or "why" of how they all arrived on this planet, they are still precious children that need to be cared for.

Certainly we can stop the criticism long enough to come up with an answer.  I do not believe the answer is in publicity. It is likely in help from Social Services.

 
February 11, 2009, 10:54 am CST

Kate Gosselin on his show again!?

I want to know why Dr. Phil is having Kate Gosselin on his show again.

She is definitely not the one to ask about anything concerning this Mom.

IMO Kate and her husband Jon have already used the system for their family.

And they still are to some degree. Now they live in a 1.3 million dollar home with about 24 acres of land.

So in my opinion, if anyone has multiples this is the way to go. If you watch the show(I don't anymore)

it seems to be destroying a marriage and is very damaging to the precious children. The way she talks to her husband is bad enough and her spa days that she just has to have! I just don't understand Dr. Phil why you would be asking Kate about anything. Granted they had it rough in the beginning, but now they are on easy street. Kate has a very bad attitude and is very ugly to her husband. And yes I have heard all the comments about "Put yourself in her place" Oh Please! Anyway, JMO! At least the the Dilleys chose to be private

and they have done a fantastic job with their kids. Again JMO!

I think the Gosselin children are beautiful. My heart just goes out to them!

 
February 11, 2009, 11:17 am CST

A Future Counselor?

I have a concern that I have not seen addressed yet, and it is this: Nadya's chosen career path as a counselor.  Over the past two decades, I have noticed a deterioration of the academic standards for graduate studies and the appropriate screening of candidates into graduate programs.  If a person can cough up tuition (through government programs, loans, or private sources), they are often admitted to advanced degree programs for which they are not suited.  A person such as Nadya, who exhibits poor decision-making skills, can actually obtain credentials to counsel others about how to make decisions! 
 
February 11, 2009, 12:04 pm CST

Mother of 6 huh?

Quote From: blessedwithsix

Okay...I am a Mom of Six...my husband and I LOVE CHILDREN...I would have a half a dozen more if I could...but finanically we can't and I have accepted that. There is nothing wrong with a Mom who wants to have alot of children...No she is not married...nor does she have a job...it may have not been the smartest move on her part but that fact remains she now has 14 kids...get over it! I never see anyone putting down Jon and Kate...or the Duggars who have 18 kids! She had problems getting PG...wanted a large family...the Dr. did as she asked....the Dr. is not too blame. That is his job and how he gets paid! I believe everything happens for a reason....and if God wanted her to have just one or 2 more than only one or 2 of the embryos would have taken...but God had bigger plans for her and blessed her with 8 more babies! That is a miracle...and it is a miracle that she is okay and those babies have survived. Yes they may have problems due to being premature...but God would not have let those babies survive if he did not think she could handle it. I am not a religious person...I do not attend church every Sunday...but I do believe in God and that things do happen for a reason...and that is why I am stressing this. I also believe things will work out...they always seem to. We cannot change what she did....it is done and over with...Yes I agree with everyone it was not the smartest thing to do...but it is done and again and now there are 8 more precious babies....if that would have happened to me I would have been overwhelmed with joy and having to abort any of those babies for a better chance and less of a risk to me would not have been an option either. Bottom line...it is her life...and it is a miracle from God that it happened! I think everyone needs to quit criticizing her and just back off a bit.

Just because you love kids and had 6 of your own, does not  necessarily mean everyone should do the same.  I love animals but I don't have a house/yard/barn full. Any intelligent, rational thinking, self respecting adult, with a brain should knows where to draw the line. Using self-control over what we want and what is right takes maturity.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what this girl has done is unacceptable. Even her own mother has washed her hands of it..And if the father is going back to Iraq, as an interpreter, I highly doubt if it's to support her, its to get away fast. It plainly showed the man was embarrassed the other day. He just had nothing much to say. At the risk of ridicule. He also didn't want the the country thinking HIS daughter was going to be a burden financially to the tax payer. Serious repercussions there.  I would rather burn the money than give her ANY.

 

When their are two parents involved it's a whole other ball game. And you bloody know it.  She HAS six at home under the age of 7 years old..They're already impoverished and their little lives will be much more so now..So explain to me if you love kids, why in the name of God in Heaven would this be a miracle?  And why would you want 6 little ones to suffer because their mother is dropping kids like a cat having kittens? YOU HAD BETTER GET REAL AND YOU ARE THE ONE WHO HAD BETTER ,"GET OVER IT."  For a mother of six to make such ridiculous statements leads me to the conclusion, sensibility and good ole common sense is a not predominant here my bet is this is a totally dysfunctional family. Good parents know that having 3 children and giving them the best you can is plenty. Unless a person has a huge income, then more.  Don't be bringing God into this. (Although God has given us free wills, we tend to run amuck with it, it's greatly abused.)

Nadya has children at home that already needed her care and undivided attention and supervision. She did not need to go and get pregnant again. First and foremost take care of the ones you have. Now tell me how the hell will that happen now with 8 more mouths to feed? These already existing children deserved to have every chance at living good healthy lives and given every chance. Without compromising them, your comments are so irresponsible, selfish, self-centered and totally ridiculous it makes me want to resign as a human being. Breeding like church mice does not mean it's done with love and intelligence.  :)

The medical community already feels that the doctor who performed this ridiculous in vitro procedure was inappropriate. .And because some fool thinks it isn't his fault doesn't make it so.. She can ask, but he also had the option to say NO. Doctors are supposed to be good advisors. He was not.  Like it or not, because of the other six children there are moral questions here. I doubt God had much to do with what she and the doctor did. Like it or not these little ones do NOT have a father. It's the children who will suffer. No thanks to people like you who think this type of thing should go on and on ad-nauseum. It boggles the mind to hear an adult make such statements, like, "IT'S A MIRACLE FROM GOD." Just very very very basic common sense knows this was downright immoral and very wrong. 

 

I will end this by saying, time to grow up and get real. Six children are going to suffer greatly because of this mother's very bad choices. And the other eight are in really deep trouble. I doubt they will have much of a chance at life other than minimal love/care and an abundance of poverty, illness, negligence, dysfuntion, and very little rearing, they will all be starved for love and attention, not to mention having the unique experience of individuality. They will all be lumped together in squalor. And have only a mother who is bankrupt of good ole fashioned horse sense.

So when is she going for more kids? Soon is my guess, she is deeply troubled. That is one sick person.

 

 

 
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