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Topic : 03/09 Gold-Digging Secrets Revealed

Number of Replies: 183
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Created on : Thursday, March 05, 2009, 01:53:09 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Is it wrong to go dating for dollars? Dr. Phil’s guests say if you want to court them, you have to pay to play! Baje says she uses sex appeal to get cash, jewelry and expensive trips from men. She says she never leaves home without her "gold-digging kit," and you won’t believe what it contains! Her friend, Michelle, says Baje taught her all the secrets to getting money from men, and she doesn't see anything wrong with accepting gifts from wealthy suitors. With the help of an NFL superstar, Dr. Phil teaches these materialistic ladies a lesson they won't forget. Then, attorney Lauren Lake says gold digging is "two sandwiches short of a prostitution picnic," but Lucia, a radio talk show host, says that using men for money is no worse than men using women for sex. Don’t miss their heated debate! And, Emilie says she's not a gold digger; she’s just looking for a rich man to support her extravagant lifestyle. Tell us what you think!

Find out what happened on the show.

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March 17, 2009, 2:57 am CDT

Miss $ilicone

I watched this show with near-constant revulsion for Miss $ilicone, amazed (if true) that there's a steady stream of guys willing to buy her expensive things when they're getting neither the one thing she claims guys want--sex--nor a pleasant personality to cuddle up with (clearly not).  Maybe she's right; maybe some guys just like the challenge.  For myself, I wouldn't let her snotty ass touch the seat of my beat-up old car for a first date much less a second one.  Not because I'm worried about her expensive dress, but because she doesn't deserve my ride or my attention.

 

And although I'm not as well-off as the fake limo-driver she snubbed... (loved the look on her face when his worth was revealed)... I could afford a newer car, a bigger house, fancier clothes, etc.  But none of that stuff is worth acquiring for a loser like her.  And I don't need it for my ego.  I'll keep saving wisely for a retirement I can be proud of, and a house that's all mine years ahead of the payback schedule.  And hopefully I'll find a sweet girl in the meantime to share the real joys of life with.  To be honest, I'm suddenly feeling just a little sorry for Miss $ilicone.

 

I'm appalled that my initial scans of this message board revealed several women who approve of using men for money.  Thankfully I realize many disapprove.  To say it's the same as men using women for sex sounds fair on the surface, and maybe it is.  But I have several problems with that. 

 

First, how do these women know that's all a given guy wants, and that they'd be used?  For most of my life I've had to hear women complaining about not being able to find a nice guy.  Nice guys like myself see this kind of manipulation, and are therefore afraid to approach some women, wondering if they're going to be just like her!  And if a woman is being very flirty and seductive to get attention and I {gasp} make the false assumption that she wants sex, I'm sure as hell not going to be apologetic, nor kowtow to her further deceit.  I've seen women feigning indignity about "unwanted" sexual advances when it was their ploy all along, and that makes me angry.  And I've seen enough of this "come get me" attitude that I don't even make overtures anymore, which is sometimes sad for me, since I, too, am probably missing out on some great ladies.  Hell, I've gone for years without sex and relationships, largely, I'm afraid to say, out of fear of giving one like her any satisfaction whatsoever, or fear of repeating the pain or humiliation I've felt over previous rejection.  I'm amazed by guys who would buy gifts or spend money on such an emotionally dead and physically fake person because I'd go out of my way to refuse such women the game they seek... the ego-massaging they crave, much less any of my money. 

 

Second, whatever happened to the notion that two wrongs don't make a right??  I'm fully aware that there are plenty of males who are total jerks; I have to deal with them too, in other ways.  But is the correct response to all jerks (of either gender and in whatever realm of discussion) to be just as much of a jerk?  Will that really make for a harmonious society?!  Not as I see it; it simply makes a meaner, colder, tougher, more emotionally closed and distrusting world.

 

Third, just because he wants sex doesn't mean that's all he wants or that he's a bad person.  Women want sex, too, and although it seems commonly accepted that women who are honest and open about wanting sex are sometimes unfairly labeled sluts or something similar -- a judgment never heard from me! -- it seems far less commonly acknowledged that a man who wants sex is also frequently labeled.  He's assumed to be a jerk or uncaring or a trophy hunter or has a one-track mind or can't control it... on and on. 

 

One thing that seems frequently overlooked is that in this gold-digger/sex-predator dynamic, the woman ends up getting both -- sex and money (or gifts).  The man only gets sex!  Who are these women trying to fool?  They act like they're so special that sex is a gift to the man, when in fact it's also something they enjoy!  How arrogant!  Can anyone imagine a man getting away with such an attitude? -- you buy me things and I might let you sleep with me!   He'd automatically be ruled the most egotistical creep possible -- just the way I view women who act like princesses on a pedestal. 

 

Of course in the case of the lady on the show with a chip on her shoulder matched only by the size of her silicone breasts, she said she doesn't have sex with the men.  So then my problem becomes wondering what man would want someone like her? 

 

For the record, I don't approve of men using women for sex or money (there are such cases) or anything else... nor do I approve of women using men for sex (there are such cases; I've lived them and had my heart broken!) or for money or anything else.  Being honest about what you want, though it may hurt some people and scare off others, seems to me the best approach.  Just weeks ago I encountered a forum on another relationship website where some of the women who posted were lamenting the fact that some guys try to be friends when what they really want is romance or sex.  I can understand that, but for years I was simply too shy and clueless about dating even when my motive was a simple crush!  I was baffled by the idea of being overtly sexual with a woman because my upbringing instilled in me the terrible, relationship-smothering idea that women don't want sex!  That's a horrible falsehood for a sensitive boy to learn, and leaves him with the limited repertoire of approaching any female--no matter what my interest is--from a friendship angle! 

 

The point of all this rambling is that men have feelings too, and they're not just sexual ones... nor is there anything wrong with the sexual ones!  Women who play the gold-digger game are no better than the men they complain about, and they're doing inadvertent harm to a lot of nice guys like myself, to whom they might be attracted.  Those who generalize about men and get jerks have reaped what they've sown; those who act sexual and complain that men act sexual with them, I have no sympathy for.  Complain to your girlfriends. 

 
March 17, 2009, 3:02 am CDT

I'm standing up...

Quote From: grapejam6860

I find it rather sad that in this terribly mixed up world we live in ......that even dating has become one big scandal. I 've been single for 5 years now and keep wishing that I can find someone special. But everywhere I look there are people taking advantage of each other. What ever happend to boy meets girl, girl meets boy...they like each other ....they date....they learn to build a trusting relationship , and get engaged and then marry? Maybe I'm old fashioned, but I have what I have ...what I do not ...I learn to live without. But I'm glad that I have morals and values. I want a man's attentions, but if that cannot happen honestly and naturally , then maybe its better off to not happen at all. I just have to keep hoping that all these people who do spend every waking moment taking advantage of each other aren't completely ruining the dating world for us lonely , honest few out here who really are....just looking for an honest , and true relationship. I'd rather live in a tent and have true love than live in a mansion and be without love. Thumbs up to the honest people out there and shame on you who are using men /or women to benefit financially or materially.

and I'm applauding.  Thanks for your post, which made me feel better after some of the others I've read.
 
March 29, 2009, 5:21 pm CDT

What a Great Post !!

Quote From: georgejj

Dear Dr. Phil,

 

I never thought the time would come when I actually took the time to write in about a show.  However, after watching Women Who Want to Marry for Money, which by the way was a misleading title, I could hardly contain myself.  I am embarrassed for men and women in general, especially everyone on the stage.  The fact of the matter is that no oneand I mean no one (even you Dr. Phil) was courageous enough to acknowledge some of the realities that even made the topic of this show necessary. 

 

Baje and Company
Baje and her friend Michelle may be in the wrong for their beliefs and behaviors.  However, no one on the stage seemed to want to acknowledge the reality of women being regulated to the role of need satisfying objects.  To counteract this negative assignment, some women have identified and executed an informal method of retaliation.  Many would argue this is a negative and unhealthy reaction.  And admittedly, I have concerns about anyone who consciously identifies themselves as a gold digger and exhibits the behaviors to confirm their proclamation.  The discussion may have moved forward if at least one person acknowledged the role objectification plays in how and why women like Baje exhibit the attitudes and behaviors everyone so despises.  The objectification of women is a reality in todays world as it was for those before us.  It consistently rears its ugly head in every environment.  And, until this goes away, we will always have the Bajes.

 

Dwight - The Football Player
Dwight said he generally doesnt buy gifts of any kind for a woman until after about three months.  Fine, I dont have a problem with that.  In fact, football player or not, I think thats a good policy for both men and women.  Why would you buy gifts for someone you dont really know?  The problem you failed to look at the other side of the coin, which would have contributed tremendously to this conversation and made for a more authentic discussion.

 

How long would Dwight or any man, for that matter, date a woman before asking for or expecting sex?  Ill be generous and give both the benefit of the doubt and concede that they are willing to wait three months.  Is the getting to know you stage included in this three months?  If so, do men consider themselves in a committed relationship?  Are they seeing other women during this waiting/crying game?  If not, does this mean theyre celibate for three months or are they getting a little on the side to tide them over until the woman they really like comes around?  More importantly, if they do, are they honest about it?

 

I believe most women, like myself, have been approached and afforded the opportunity to use men for their money, if they chose to do so.  I have never taken this path.  And as a financially secure woman, I must say I question the authenticity of the women only want men for their money argument.  Are these same men secure enough to date a woman with equal or more earning potential?  They dont want women to want them for their money and what they have.  However, more often than not, it is the first thing they present to assure us that they are the ONE for us.  Id be curious to know how Dwight introduces himself.  Ive never heard of him and if I saw him walking down the street, the most I could say is WOW, thats a good looking brother...not chi-ching. 

 

Dwights concern about women only wanting him for his money is valid.  Of course those types of women are out there.  However, I can think of at least two ways this little conundrum can easily be solved: 1) Dont give them any!  If she really likes him for who he is, she wont care or even bring it to his attention that he has yet to buy her anything.  Of course, and here I go with the other side of the coin montage again, the same should hold true for him, right?  If he really likes her for who she is, he is willing to wait on sex and wont even bring it to her attention that theyve been dating for a month and havent even been together. 2) Call me crazy, but minimal or cost-free gestures of sentiment are always an option.  He seemed intelligent enough to come up with a few good ideas to show that special someone he cares about them without having to bet the farm. 

 

It also seems as though the highest paid NFL defensive player wouldnt be interested in women with attitudes similar to Baje.  Again, the other side of the coin goes unexamined.  If we had a facebook of all the women he has dated during and since college, what would they look like?  Has the 76 million dollar man every dated a woman that society would not consider a nine or ten?  And if so, did his boys know about it?  Whats the longest non-sexual committed relationship hes been in since entering the NFL?  As a side note, he is, put simply, easy to look at.  When I saw the promo, I said to myself, those girls are special.  Assuming he has a nice personality and good heart that is one limo driver I would date, regardless.  In fact, I bet most women would date him even if he made $760 a month.  So, can you please ask him to clarify why his situation is so frustrating?  I truly do not understand the root of his frustration.

 

The Wife
Mrs. Lake, the wife of an NFL Coach, is adamant that Baje and her friend are selling themselves short by being gold diggers.  I can't say that I disagree.  However, I think Mrs. Lake went too far with the prostitution reference.  Her comments basically put Baje and women who exhibit Bajes gold digging tendencies in the category of what Ill call unofficial prostitutes.  Now lets talk about that other side of the coin again, which was once again conveniently ignored.  Since 64 percent of the men in your poll said what they want most out of a relationship is sex, it would seem that most if not all of their gestures, tangible or intangible, place these men in the category of unofficial pimps.  I mean really, how long will a man continue with these kind gestures in the absence of sex before engagement or marriage (again assuming hes not getting a little on the side)? 

 

I also find it interesting that very little background was provided (or conveniently left out) on the ONE woman on the stage that is actually married to a many with means.  Im sure the general public is curious to know when and where she met her husband; his employment and financial status when she met him; her employment and financial status when she met him; and dare I say it, whether there is a significant age difference between them.  I think it is also worth noting that a persons economic history and experiences with money can and does significantly influence their views and behaviors when it comes to financial security.  It would be interesting to know about Mrs. Lake's financial history and if she ever has had to go without.  And Im referring to the basics, not the extras.

 

Dr. Phil
You are more removed from the realities of the single world than you know, particularly as it relates to women.  You and Robin got married in a very different time (1970s I presume).  That was a time period when the ultimate and expected role of a woman was to be marriedto anyonejust be married!  Im not saying you werent magical at the time Robin met and fell in love with you.  However, the expectations and societal pressures that fuel the motivations for developing significant relationships were very different back then.

 

The definition of a date as you know it from your single days is very different then the definition of today.  Hanging out with a group of friends on a regular basis, translates into weve known each other for a while in man language.  In other words, somehow this 'hang-time' counts on the get to know you time clock even though you have never gotten together as a result of him directly asking you and only you out on a date.  Ultimatley, when that first date does occur, and if at the end of this date it appears to the man that sexual intimacy in some form or fashion is not an option that evening or in the near future (i.e. second date), the likelihood of any continued interest on his side is slim to none.

 

In Bajes defense, men will approach any and all women they find attractive, whether theyre dressed provocatively or not.  The boldness and sense of entitlement seen in some men today has reached new and unbelievable levels.  Now I know one of your famous phrases is, you teach people how to treat you.  So, for the sake of argument, consider a woman that for all practical purposes is somewhat the opposite of Baje.  This woman is average to above average looking, educated, and gainfully employed.  She carries herself like a young lady (for the record I hate that term).  She never wants or chooses to use men for money or any type of personal gain.  Gifts are not a requirement and she does not hold a man in a negative light if he chooses to show his affection in another way.  However, she does choose to be in a committed relationship before engaging in a sexual relationship; with the understanding that a true committed relationship doesnt develop overnight, even if they knew each other before their first date or the date involved chocolate martinis, live jazz and great conversation.  In your opinion, how will this woman be treated?  Ill keep my opinion to myself on this one until you get back to me.

 

Sincerely,

An educated, financially secure, non-gold digging woman. 

 

P.S.  Playing Beyonces Naughty Girl for transition musicreally?!

Signed as educated, financially secure, non-gold digging woman. . . I think I would add the word 'experienced' as well.

 

You certainly brought out not only the major points that were discussed during the show, but provided the unspoken ones as well.  Kudos to you!  I especially liked your final post, addressing Dr. Phil himself and could not agree with you more.  Times have changed tremendously, and unless he has been out there and involved, he really cannot understand the differences.

 

Too many of the posts apparently think or feel that all '9' or '10's must be gold-diggers or, on the other hand, that a gold-digger must be a '9 or 10'.  They come in all numbers. I've met some and most (if not all) (and no matter what their 'number' are sociopathic and/or narcisisstic.     They are also easy to spot - you only have to listen - everything is "I, I, I" and have no qualms about telling you what they want out of life. Unlike Baje, who says she puts it right up front when meeting a man, I have found the real gold-digger to do just the opposite.  She tells everyone else what she is up to while telling the target how great, good-looking, smart, etc. she thinks he is, interspersed with what she wants.

 

I disagree with many of the posts (assuming for the most part that they are males) when they say they feel 'all women are gold-diggers to some extent'.  The vast majority are hoping for a committed relationship with a caring, faithful friend and/or lover.  Yes, they want him employed, but that trait hardly falls into the category of gold-digging.  Men, in general, are looking for the same thing.  A lot of them, however, don't realize that the same scale they use for women applies to them, also.  At first sight, anyway.  I've known a lot of women that fall into '8 or 9's that have opted for men on the '2 or 3' level in looks.  Rarely will that work in reverse.

 

Baje and Michelle can categorize themselves as 'gold-diggers', but I don't buy it.  Whether you receive cash or jewelry or McDonald's coupons, there is only one name for what they do. (Michelle even said she has a man at home that 'allows' her to do it - or does he send her out?  If so, the common name for that is 'pimp'.)  I do not believe for a minute that Baje dresses provacatively, aims at the wealthiest looking man, announces up front that he gets no sex - and then receives her 'gifts' anyway.  Unless, perhaps, her targets are 70+ who are willing to pay for 'arm candy' to show off to cohorts in their misguided thinking of other males admiring (or believing) his sexual prowess. (Perhaps Baje's statement is 'Clintonesque' in the sense that like Anna Nicole Smith before her she offers a 'look see' or fondle) and that is not sex.

 

Anyway - just loved your post! 

 
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