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Topic : 08/18 'Fighting for My Children'

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Created on : Friday, August 12, 2005, 06:24:59 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original air date 05/17/05) Dr. Phil sheds light on two custody battles cases that have captured national attention and left the children caught in the crossfire. Michael, Linda and their two kids seemed to be the typical American family, but when the marriage started to crumble, the fight for custody ended up on Court TV. Why did Linda lose her kids to a man who's not their biological father, and is Michael an unfit parent because he used to be a woman? Then, model Bridget Marks made headlines when she was forced to hand over her twin daughters to their father. Tune in for her dramatic update and join the discussion.

 

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August 25, 2005, 8:04 am PDT

SPORTS

Since this discussion is going on and on;  I'm am going to CHANGE the SUBJECT abit and discuss something that seems to have been ignored.  OK SPORTS.  Now when they were talking about Michael and Linda they mentioned Linda's religion didn't allow sports.  

   

NOW, this is my thing with religion:  One religion says Ok if you do this one thing you are going to hell.  Now another sincere religion will practice the one thing that the first religion is going to hell for, but will NOT do another thing that their religion will go to hell for.  Now I mean little things.  Things that are NOT the 10 commandments, but things like SPORTS.  

   

Now for Linda, a question:  Is this a heaven or hell issue? for your church?  

   

Now I have a 12 year old who is a baseball player who plays year round baseball 4 times per week.  2 practices and 2 games.  I don't go to every game.  He is a pretty good player and is not in any kind of trouble and a pretty good kid.  Games are usually an hour drive away (spending $2.50 per gallon for gas (lol) My husband each season will ask him if he wants to play and sometimes he says "No" and my husband will say OH NO if you miss this season then you will miss the practice and you can't miss this season blah blah blah:  So do you want to play?  And of course my son will give in and say YES.  They even have games on Mother's Day imagine that?  I think baseball should be in the summer:  JUNE, JULY and AUGUST.  But who cares about my opinion right?  

   

So from a practical standpoint and not a religious standpoint sports can be time consuming and dividing.  Baseball ALWAYS comes before everything else.  

   

But my thing for Linda, if you are not going to do Sports, WHAT ARE THE KIDS DOING INSTEAD?  that is the question.    

   

 
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August 25, 2005, 12:07 pm PDT

Where's your Empathy for the father

Quote From: missjane2

Jadaok, after reading many of your posts..... it is as though you post from a GLASSHOUSE.  You post from Idealism rather than Reality.  Whenever I hear about stories like this I try to take the position of EMPATHY and COMPASSION.  How would I feel if I was in there shoes?  Because it doesn't hurt as much unless it happens to us or someone related to us.  Then it's a whole nother story.     

    

Bridget's behavior may have been immoral, but it was not criminal.   

    

The accusation was that the dad french kissed the girls which is not acceptable behavior.   

    

I don't know if there is a way to prove that in the ER?   

    

Child molesters lie.   

    

But regardless of all this.  Bridget has already served a sentence.  How long should it be?  I think it has been long enough.  Those girls love her.  Ripping them away from her will only cause them more pain like the pain the girls went thru cuz they did miss her terribly.   

    

Her choice of profession is not illegal in America.  It doesn't mean I agree with it.  I don't think it means she's a bad mother.  I don't think it is a safe lifestyle for her, but again it is her free choice in this FREE country called America.   

It's easy to say that you have empathy for the mother because as women and society we root for the underdog.  But not once did you say anything about the children loving and missing their father.  These children love their dad too.  And they have a right to love their dad, just like you love your father. 

    Remember the PB Bunny accused the father of molesting the girls.  Hello????  She took them for intrusive exams.  Put yourself in the father's shoes.  What if you were falsely accused of doing something inappropriate with a child and you knew it was a lie, but it was put out for the whole world to see it, because the parents of the child wanted to extort money from you, and you didn't give in?  That's what this is about.   

   I believe that if the rich man had left his wife and made Marks his trophy wife or if he had just given her his children with a hefty check every month, she never would have made up the allegations, which by the way were proven to be a lie, yet you and everyone else here seems to be doubting the court, investigators, child psychologists and everyone esle who deemed that Marks told a vicious lie and is guilty of Parental Alienation.   

   So you think ripping the kids from the Bunny will cause them pain, I think more about the mental pain for two babies being asked if their father molested them because of a parent's strategy.  I think about the pain these kids endured being examined and nothing being found in the ER because of Mark's strategy.  I think about them growing up and being raised by a mother with no morals and deciding to run the same game on your son or mine for money.  I think about a father who can't kiss his daughter's now because he might end up in court over a lie.  I think of little girl's who had to hear and see their mother chasing after a car calling their father evil and the look of fear on their faces. 

  

   It's not illegal to take X-rated pictures but it is illegal to lie under oath, and that's what the NY courts proved, yet Marks hasn't been arrested, and got sole custody of the twins thanks to the lie.  (sad)  If someone lied in court about stealing property they'd be arrested, but you can lie about babies being molested and take home the prize, the babies.   There's no way Marks loves these kids.  They'd be better off with their father.  Even a nanny.  I pray the father keeps fighting.  What Marks did was a slap in the face to every woman, wife and mother in the world, yet we want to stand side by side with her because she's a woman.  Give me a break.   

 
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August 25, 2005, 3:03 pm PDT

08/18 'Fighting for My Children'

Quote From: jadaok

It's easy to say that you have empathy for the mother because as women and society we root for the underdog.  But not once did you say anything about the children loving and missing their father.  These children love their dad too.  And they have a right to love their dad, just like you love your father. 

    Remember the PB Bunny accused the father of molesting the girls.  Hello????  She took them for intrusive exams.  Put yourself in the father's shoes.  What if you were falsely accused of doing something inappropriate with a child and you knew it was a lie, but it was put out for the whole world to see it, because the parents of the child wanted to extort money from you, and you didn't give in?  That's what this is about.   

   I believe that if the rich man had left his wife and made Marks his trophy wife or if he had just given her his children with a hefty check every month, she never would have made up the allegations, which by the way were proven to be a lie, yet you and everyone else here seems to be doubting the court, investigators, child psychologists and everyone esle who deemed that Marks told a vicious lie and is guilty of Parental Alienation.   

   So you think ripping the kids from the Bunny will cause them pain, I think more about the mental pain for two babies being asked if their father molested them because of a parent's strategy.  I think about the pain these kids endured being examined and nothing being found in the ER because of Mark's strategy.  I think about them growing up and being raised by a mother with no morals and deciding to run the same game on your son or mine for money.  I think about a father who can't kiss his daughter's now because he might end up in court over a lie.  I think of little girl's who had to hear and see their mother chasing after a car calling their father evil and the look of fear on their faces. 

  

   It's not illegal to take X-rated pictures but it is illegal to lie under oath, and that's what the NY courts proved, yet Marks hasn't been arrested, and got sole custody of the twins thanks to the lie.  (sad)  If someone lied in court about stealing property they'd be arrested, but you can lie about babies being molested and take home the prize, the babies.   There's no way Marks loves these kids.  They'd be better off with their father.  Even a nanny.  I pray the father keeps fighting.  What Marks did was a slap in the face to every woman, wife and mother in the world, yet we want to stand side by side with her because she's a woman.  Give me a break.   

I really don't want to post any more on this subject.  I really don't.  I have said the things I want to say.  And I want to give you the last word Jadaok I really do.   You are right.  Mr Millionaire deserves compassion the same as anyone else does, but let's give Mrs. Millionaire some compassion first.   Now if I was Mrs. Millionaire and my husband had an affair and had 2 cute little kids with this very pretty lady, if it was ME:  I would not want these children involved in my husband's life at all.  It's ME or THEM.  If he had had them prior to the relationship and I knew about the package deal from the beginning then they would be very much welcomed into my home.  Now in this case there is hostility between the two: Mr. Millionaire and Ms Model so there is probably not going to be a continued relationship.  As Mrs.  Millionaire this would be my concern because it had happened.  As well as a constant reminder of the betrayal.  My feeling is  that they  would need to cut all ties.  But again this is IF it was me.  I can't speak for how she feels.  She is showing how she feels by staying with him, but perhaps she forgives him.    
 
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August 25, 2005, 6:36 pm PDT

jadaok

Quote From: jadaok

It's easy to say that you have empathy for the mother because as women and society we root for the underdog.  But not once did you say anything about the children loving and missing their father.  These children love their dad too.  And they have a right to love their dad, just like you love your father. 

    Remember the PB Bunny accused the father of molesting the girls.  Hello????  She took them for intrusive exams.  Put yourself in the father's shoes.  What if you were falsely accused of doing something inappropriate with a child and you knew it was a lie, but it was put out for the whole world to see it, because the parents of the child wanted to extort money from you, and you didn't give in?  That's what this is about.   

   I believe that if the rich man had left his wife and made Marks his trophy wife or if he had just given her his children with a hefty check every month, she never would have made up the allegations, which by the way were proven to be a lie, yet you and everyone else here seems to be doubting the court, investigators, child psychologists and everyone esle who deemed that Marks told a vicious lie and is guilty of Parental Alienation.   

   So you think ripping the kids from the Bunny will cause them pain, I think more about the mental pain for two babies being asked if their father molested them because of a parent's strategy.  I think about the pain these kids endured being examined and nothing being found in the ER because of Mark's strategy.  I think about them growing up and being raised by a mother with no morals and deciding to run the same game on your son or mine for money.  I think about a father who can't kiss his daughter's now because he might end up in court over a lie.  I think of little girl's who had to hear and see their mother chasing after a car calling their father evil and the look of fear on their faces. 

  

   It's not illegal to take X-rated pictures but it is illegal to lie under oath, and that's what the NY courts proved, yet Marks hasn't been arrested, and got sole custody of the twins thanks to the lie.  (sad)  If someone lied in court about stealing property they'd be arrested, but you can lie about babies being molested and take home the prize, the babies.   There's no way Marks loves these kids.  They'd be better off with their father.  Even a nanny.  I pray the father keeps fighting.  What Marks did was a slap in the face to every woman, wife and mother in the world, yet we want to stand side by side with her because she's a woman.  Give me a break.   

why should he get empathy?If anyone deserves empathy its his wife not that bastard.He is nothing but an abuser and why his wife is there i'll never know.He is an abuser face it and when bridget tried to call it off he told her that he would take the kids from her so why should there be any empathy for him?Its not hard to see he waas in the wrong.why didn''t his high powered lawyer that he hired get the kids back when bridget got cutody back of the girls ?your grasping at straws here the man is a loser.Bridget might have posed nude so what at least se wasn't a abuser lie that low life.HULA GIRL
 
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August 26, 2005, 9:47 am PDT

I respectfully disagree

Quote From: ladyjones

I don't believ this exuse "I've always felt I was born in the wrong body".   If you are born male, you're male. Your brain is not female or male, it's a general brain and the way you're raised dictates how you see things.  As to intersexed people, that is a medical disability and should be rectified as soon as possible.  But I dont' believe that a brain can be a different gender than a body...it's just an excuse for a person who likes cross dressing or who thinks the other sex is a better choice.
 Well, if you contact any of the folks at the Intersex Society of North America, I think, no- I know  that they will probably disagree with you that they are a "medical disability."  Most of them resent having been operated on as babies to change their genitalia, as the operation can affect sexual pleasure as an adult.  In fact, they have lobbyists in Washington trying to make it illegal for doctors to change their body until they are of the age of informed consent.  Most surgeries performed on intersexed babies are not medical emergencies, only "social" emergencies, as defined by the attending physician, who is acting, knowingly or not, as a gender policeman.

I don't always agree with trans folks that we are born into the wrong body, either.  As a female to male person myself, I believe that God knew that I would be born with gender conflicts, and that He wanted me to go through all of this so that I would be more compassionate towards others.  I can do more for His kingdom when I've suffered and have come through it more submitted to His will!

 
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August 26, 2005, 11:48 am PDT

genderbender what!!!

Quote From: genderbend

 Well, if you contact any of the folks at the Intersex Society of North America, I think, no- I know  that they will probably disagree with you that they are a "medical disability."  Most of them resent having been operated on as babies to change their genitalia, as the operation can affect sexual pleasure as an adult.  In fact, they have lobbyists in Washington trying to make it illegal for doctors to change their body until they are of the age of informed consent.  Most surgeries performed on intersexed babies are not medical emergencies, only "social" emergencies, as defined by the attending physician, who is acting, knowingly or not, as a gender policeman.

I don't always agree with trans folks that we are born into the wrong body, either.  As a female to male person myself, I believe that God knew that I would be born with gender conflicts, and that He wanted me to go through all of this so that I would be more compassionate towards others.  I can do more for His kingdom when I've suffered and have come through it more submitted to His will!

Are you serious?God put you on earth with gender conflicts?I truly don't believe that for a min.God made man in his image not to have gender conflicts. What i mean by image is his pure soul and i can't believe that god puts anyone here for conflicts.There are troubles at birth like disabilities yes but! it not conflicts.H e put you here to suffer ?that is not gods intent for you so don't go putting god to blame for your mistakes.Thats just an excuse to get off easy,so why not throw it gods way.Well we'll see when its time to meet your maker if he has conflicts of you getting in heavens gates. Don't be surprised if god slams them gates closed on your face then see if you are born with conflicts.I am insulted that you would even bring him into this mess you people see fit to do with your bodies so if you were born a female you are a female and i'm sure god sees it that way too.what person in their right mind is going to put their child through surgey to change their genitilia no less?If a baby is not able to speak for themselves why would a parent in their right mine change what god gave them as a gift?why this statement then if you believe god gave you conflicts"I don't always agree with trans folks that we are born into the wrong body, either.  As a female to male person myself, I believe that God knew that I would be born with gender conflicts, and that He wanted me to go through all of this so that I would be more compassionate towards others.  I can do more for His kingdom when I've suffered and have come through it more submitted to His will!"You don't agree with the trans genders that they are born in the wrong body but yet you turn around and say god put you here more or less in the wrong body to have conflicts with.So either you believe trans genders or don't .You truly don't seem to know what you are i don't think.

 
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August 26, 2005, 12:03 pm PDT

08/18 'Fighting for My Children'

Quote From: genderbend

 Well, if you contact any of the folks at the Intersex Society of North America, I think, no- I know  that they will probably disagree with you that they are a "medical disability."  Most of them resent having been operated on as babies to change their genitalia, as the operation can affect sexual pleasure as an adult.  In fact, they have lobbyists in Washington trying to make it illegal for doctors to change their body until they are of the age of informed consent.  Most surgeries performed on intersexed babies are not medical emergencies, only "social" emergencies, as defined by the attending physician, who is acting, knowingly or not, as a gender policeman.

I don't always agree with trans folks that we are born into the wrong body, either.  As a female to male person myself, I believe that God knew that I would be born with gender conflicts, and that He wanted me to go through all of this so that I would be more compassionate towards others.  I can do more for His kingdom when I've suffered and have come through it more submitted to His will!

Genderbend, I am glad you are changing the subject.  I know a handful or 2 or 3 of people with gender issues.  I have watched the Jerry Springer show a few times, but I am not a regular like I am to the Dr. Phil show.  I do think inspite of some far out guests, Jerry has some WISE things to say.   I personally think Gender issues are related to:  REJECTION and TRAGEDY (did I spell that wrong?)  and NOT GENETIC.  Again this is MY OPINION related to the ones who I have talked personally with or observed.   Most of these when you really talk to them they have come from very broken homes and deep hurts in relationships.  AND IF YOU ARE AROUND THEM WHEN THEY ARE REALLY DRUNK:  They start talking about someone who was very, very dear to them WHO DIED.
See if you notice this next time you are around someone like this who is really, really drunk and speaking the honest truth from their heart?
 
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August 28, 2005, 10:02 am PDT

That's Fair

Quote From: missjane2

I really don't want to post any more on this subject.  I really don't.  I have said the things I want to say.  And I want to give you the last word Jadaok I really do.   You are right.  Mr Millionaire deserves compassion the same as anyone else does, but let's give Mrs. Millionaire some compassion first.   Now if I was Mrs. Millionaire and my husband had an affair and had 2 cute little kids with this very pretty lady, if it was ME:  I would not want these children involved in my husband's life at all.  It's ME or THEM.  If he had had them prior to the relationship and I knew about the package deal from the beginning then they would be very much welcomed into my home.  Now in this case there is hostility between the two: Mr. Millionaire and Ms Model so there is probably not going to be a continued relationship.  As Mrs.  Millionaire this would be my concern because it had happened.  As well as a constant reminder of the betrayal.  My feeling is  that they  would need to cut all ties.  But again this is IF it was me.  I can't speak for how she feels.  She is showing how she feels by staying with him, but perhaps she forgives him.    
That's a fair post, but Mrs. Millionaire chose to stay so that means she has to accept Mr. Millionaire for what he is.  Sadly Mr. Big Bucks must only be able to attract women with his wallet and maybe his wife is an older version of Marks.  But with the twins being so young and if she loves her husband and forgives him enough to stick around, she could and should love the twins.  But then again if she's a woman like Marks, it would stand to reason why you might think she should keep her man and throw the baby to the wolves at the mercy of a mother like Marks.  Here's what Mrs. Bucks should do.  Stand with her husband to get sole custody of the twins.  Then divorce him and take the kids away from both their cheating father and nude model mother.  That's what I'd do, take the kids from both of them.  But then again all three of these people might deserve each other.  The only real victims are these twins.
 
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August 28, 2005, 5:13 pm PDT

Yes, I'm serious

Quote From: missjane2

I think Linda should have another baby.  I don't know how old you are Linda, but this may be a solution to your very difficult situation.  If you are not married than get sperm from a sperm bank if you don't want to do it the nonChristian way.  This sperm will not have any custody rights.  I am not saying forget your kids.  Soon they will be adults and allowed to make their own decisions.  You are going to fight with Michael about them the rest of your life.  Stop fighting with Michael and have a baby.  This sweet little baby without his DNA or court interferring placement and  will be yours to raise and rear as you please.  And it will draw your other kids back to your too.   And you won't have to fight with Michael or anyone else about your new baby.
 I don't mean to be rude, but it is a litlle difficult following your train of thought with your writing style.

 Just to follow up, the Bible speaks of salvation "ONLY" in terms of whether one accepts Jesus Christ as personal Saviour, not whether somebody changes their body or not.  Read up!

I wasn't implying that it was God's ultimate will that I have gender conflicts, only that He has used it for good in my life in reaching out to others.  I will stand before my Maker with great expectation that He will say "Well done"!  Perhaps, if maybe you reached out with a little more compassion towards folks, God could use you in a mighty way.  Your passion is admirable, your harshness is not.  Even if transexuality was sin, per se, which I don't believe it is (at least not in my case), your attitude doesn't exactly encourage one to repent.  Are you saying that you are a Christian?  Only God can judge your heart, but if you are, please give me some "fruit of the Spirit", such as "KINDNESS".

Maybe we should just agree to disagree.  What do you think?
 
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August 28, 2005, 5:29 pm PDT

Not Always Rejection

Quote From: missjane2

Genderbend, I am glad you are changing the subject.  I know a handful or 2 or 3 of people with gender issues.  I have watched the Jerry Springer show a few times, but I am not a regular like I am to the Dr. Phil show.  I do think inspite of some far out guests, Jerry has some WISE things to say.   I personally think Gender issues are related to:  REJECTION and TRAGEDY (did I spell that wrong?)  and NOT GENETIC.  Again this is MY OPINION related to the ones who I have talked personally with or observed.   Most of these when you really talk to them they have come from very broken homes and deep hurts in relationships.  AND IF YOU ARE AROUND THEM WHEN THEY ARE REALLY DRUNK:  They start talking about someone who was very, very dear to them WHO DIED.
See if you notice this next time you are around someone like this who is really, really drunk and speaking the honest truth from their heart?
Look, many of us transgendered folks come from "normal" families.  Gender confilicts aren't just exclusively for trans people.  "EVERYONE" has issues with their gender identity in some respect.  If they didn't, why do we have wars between the sexes?  Many girls, who are anorexic, for example, when you get them to be honest in talk therapy, will tell you that they judge their "femininity" to the extreme.  A girl/woman who feels good about her gender and body doesn't "starve" herself to death.  Most of these girls jucge themselves "harshly", particularly their bodies. 

In my opinion, gender stereotypes are manmade and are very" harmful to most person's self esteem.  If parents and other authority figures in a child's life would just let that child be the personality God intended them to have, instead of "socializing" them into very harmful gender roles and expectations, perhaps transexuality would go away.  I don't believe that trans people are born into the wrong body, but that they are born into the wrong society!  I am treated so much differently as a man than I was a woman, but I have the same character and personality that I've always had.  Don't you think that being treated differently is soooo.....stupid, when I am the EXACT SAME PERSON, except for my looks?
 
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