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Topic : 09/15 The Disappearance of Natalee

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Created on : Friday, September 09, 2005, 03:42:10 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

It's a story that captured national attention and struck fear in the hearts of parents everywhere. Eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared during a senior class trip to the island of Aruba. Now, Dr. Phil uncovers information never before revealed.  Tune in for exclusive interviews -- some potentially incriminating -- with witnesses, suspects and their families and friends. Find out what the polygraph says about a crucial witness, and hear Natalee's mom describe how the horror of losing her precious daughter unfolded over one heartbreaking summer. Share your thoughts here.

 

Find out what happened on the show.

 

More September 2005 Show Boards.


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September 16, 2005, 10:00 pm PDT

Apologies accepted

Quote From: alakazam

On behalf of all Americans, willing or not, I'd like to apologise to the Aruban and Dutch peoples for the poor and ignorant behavior of all the Americans who have been so critical over this Holloway nonsense and who are in favor of boycotting tourism to the island.   Try to understand that American opinion is governed first by our manipulative and myopic media and secondly by emotional outbursts.  Logic and the facts do not even figure into the thinking of the majority of American opinions.  The war in Iraq is a perfect example, not to mention Kobe Bryant, Lacy Peterson, and OJ Simpson.    I well know that America is 10 times more dangerous than Aruba, The Netherlands, or most any other country in the world.  Foreign tourists have been warned for years about the scams, murders, kidnappings, child abductions, car jackings, and serial killers being rampant in this country.  And since Bush has decided he has the ability and God-given right to randomly invade whatever country strikes his fancy, we're regarded as being even more deranged.   I lived in The Netherlands for almost 10 years and it was probably the most enjoyable time of my life, mostly because I never felt so safe.  Cops were everywhere and there is comparitively little crime.  There's no homeless, no unemployed, and the Dutch people are enjoy living their life instead of trying to screw everyone else.  I can only hope that maybe in 100 years, America will be as advanced.   Americans forget that the Dutch helped found this country (New Amsterdam), that the Pilgrim fathers came from Leiden, and The Netherlands was one of the first countries to officially recognize the new United States after the Revolutionary War.  I'm sure the people of New Orleans could use the assistance of the world's experts at levee building and living below sea level, but after all the insults, I'd be surprised if they'd lift a finger.   We in America are a young country, just like a young person, have a chip on our shoulder for no reason, are still stumbling around trying to act mature, yet unable and unwilling to learn from older and wiser persons, instead bullying everyone and repeating the mistakes of history.  And what's worse, due to our geography, we're a kid who's been given a big gun that he doesn't know what to do with, so we're not taking any advice from anybody 'cause we know best. (Any parents heard this before?)    I know there will be a lot of stupid and angry replies to this from ignorant Americans ("keep your opinion to yourself", "why don't I just leave if I don't like it", etc.) and you can just add those to the list of examples of why Americans simply can't deal effectively with the truth or with the outside world.   So, try to forgive those who don't understand and don't know any better. And to all Americans, it's time to wake up and understand how poorly this country is regarded around the world.  Stop perpetuating the stereotype.  

Finally a person with a clear vision, putting my thoughts as a Dutch person perfectly into place. Thanks. 

  

Ive read this entire thread and 60% of posts are from American moms who react as any mom would: full of emotion, not too much rationality and full of judgment, running behind a Guru called Phil screaming: Boycott, Boycott. 

  

Lets put this clear. One girl went missing. One of the HUNDREDS Americans missing. Most of them are lost in the USA. Did we recover 100% of them? In the missing cases, did we also boycott the local towns and put the moms on National TV? 

  

We all feel for Natalee's mom but lets be rational also still. Dont judge an entire country for the missing of one child. Neither do we Dutch call for a boycott of the USA when AGAIN a Dutch tourists is killed in a rental car. 

  

And Dr. Phil... i respect you greatly as a mind doctor.. you are not a politician.. dont try to be one... thanks. 

 
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September 16, 2005, 10:24 pm PDT

Bad people need punished

Quote From: netje2205

http://www.lostremote.com/archives/005685.html 

  

Aruba: Murder by numbers
As Coverage Mania of the Holloway story continues unabated, let's do some math. I know - we got into journalism precisely because we were told there would be no math. But let's do some anyway and answer empirically: Just how dangerous is that vicious, pirate-ridden, uncaring island of Aruba?

BY STEVE SAFRAN
LOST REMOTE MANAGING EDITOR

The population of Aruba is about 72,000 people. A conservative estimate of visitors in a given week is about 13,500. Total people on island at any given time? About 85,500.

Last year in Aruba there were two murders - possibly just one, depending on which stat you believe. We'll go with two anyway. No tourists were killed. That's a murder rate on Aruba of a little over 2 per 100,000, but we’ll call it an even 2. Or look at it this way: The Aruba murder rate is .0002.

Still, you can't go a minute without hearing about Natalee and you're worried. Maybe you're switching your vacation from Aruba to Jamaica. Bring some Kevlar. Murder rate: 32 per 100,000.

You'll be twice as safe in Puerto Rico as you would be in Jamaica. Still, it's eight times more dangerous than Aruba: 16 per 100,000 folks in Puerto Rico are going to meet an untimely end this year (with or without Greta Van Sustern caring).

If you're fine with 10 in 100,000 murders per capita, we can suggest Mexico, Estonia, Belize, the Dominican Republic and maybe Barbados during a bad year. Feel a little more secure in Costa Rica. Of your 100,000 friends, 99,994 won't get capped.

So, stick to the U.S. Virgin Islands. We run it. How bad could it be? Turns out you better leave behind a lot of clues if you're going there: 25 murders per 100,000. That's worse than ANY American city, save for New Orleans where shooting guns into the air is considered good, clean fun. The British Virgin Islands are more polite, but say “cheerio” to 11 per 100,000 chaps.

Screw it, you think, I'll just stay home. Now you're only three times as likely to be killed as if you went to Aruba, with the U.S. murder rate at about 6 per 100,000. The murder rate in New York City, from where Fox News constantly reminds us how dangerous Aruba is, was 7 per 100,000 people in 2002. And if your home is in, let's say, Alabama, up the murder rate to 7.5 per 100,000. Then wonder if one of your congressman will call for a boycott of your own state.

Obviously, there are safer places to vacation than Aruba. Go to Slovenia, Tunisia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia or Qatar and you're golden. Go to Canada, and you're as safe as you could be. Of course, it's colder than Aruba, but the murder rate is tiny. And it's much less likely your family will be pestered by Nancy Grace. She's from the south. She hates the cold.

I got a certain amount of hate mail regarding my last column on Aruba media insanity. (Ironically,
Aruba Today's editor said she loved it.) One eloquent writer asked "Do you have a life?" I think it's pretty obvious the answer is "No, of course not. I work in news." One person asked, simply "What is your point?" Context. That's my point. I am not mocking this tragedy, nor the importance of it to the family. What I am so troubled by is a national media obsession that is making Aruba look as though it is run by the Sopranos. Before we ruin the Aruban economy, which is dependent on tourism, here is a little more context:

Natalee disappeared on May 30, 2005. Also on that date, five U.S. soldiers died in Iraq: Corp. Jeffrey B. Starr died in Ramadi, and SSGT. Casey Crate, Captain Derek Argel, Captain Jeremy Fresques and Major William Downes died in Jalawah.

There are currently 19 kids from Alabama listed as missing at the
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website. (2 are from before 1980, some are indeed "family abductions" or "runaways".)

In South Africa, two young tourists were murdered the day after Natalee went missing.

LaToyia Figueroa, a 24-year-old pregnant woman from South Philadelphia, has been missing since July. She is Black. There has been just about no media coverage (except for stories wondering why there's no media coverage). Contrast that with the non-stop madness surrounding Laci Peterson, a 27-year-old pregnant woman from Modesto, California, who was white.

35,000 children are forced to work as prostitutes just across the sea from Aruba, in Colombia.

It's unlikely you’ll be murdered in Aruba, and it’s even more unlikely the news will care. Of course, there are ways to skew the numbers. It turns out you can geometrically expand the odds of having your story covered if you’re a cute white girl with an articulate mother during a slow news cycle. This should generate a significant spike in ratings numbers; after all, that’s the only stat that really matters.

Sources:

Pan American Health Organization (PAHO), International Comparisons of Criminal Justice Statistics 2001-Home Office Bulletin 12/03 http://www.ascotadvisory.com/News_Bulletin/9961.html

Georgia State U. Department of Criminal Justice Statistical Analysis Bureau: http://www.cjgsu.net/initiatives/HomRates-2004-05-14.htm
Iraq Casualties from Centcom.mil, via Iraq Coalition Casualty Count http://icasualties.org/oif/ Black America Web: http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/figueroa808
Colombia Journal Online:
http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia111.htm

With assistance (and math help) from: Julia Renfro, Editor in Chief, Aruba Today; RD Sahl, Anchor, NECN: Jeff Gralnick, MSNBC; Tom Melville, Asst. ND, NECN
Posted by Steve Safran on 08/16/05 Link Comments (15)
 

I pray that if Netje2205 has a daughter that she doesnt take a trip to Aruba and find herself missing. If that were to happen, I suspect that Netje2205 would take a vacation to Aruba and lay on the beach while contemplating "oh well, these things happen".  I fully support Beth Holloways mission to force the Aruban officials to do the job that they were hired to do and punish these boys for the crimes that they have commited. She deserves knowledge AND vengeance for what happened to her daughter durring a time that should have been fun and memorable. How sad that we fellow Americans have to worry when taking a vacation that certain other countries in this world have so little respect and concern for what happens to us while we are there. And no, I will NOT be taking a vacation to Aruba. They have proven themselves to be more interested in helping their wealthy comrades out of a jam than in finding justice for a young girl who found herself at the will of 3 young men will no conscience.
 
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September 16, 2005, 10:41 pm PDT

Natalee

Quote From: passive

   What do you mean there is no evidence that they are guilty? weren't those three boys the last ones with her?the tv program to boycott aruba is NOT stupid it needs to be done. It has evrything to do with the island, you people on the island are the government so it has everything to do with the whole island. I think whats stupid is the fact that the government in Aruba is ignoring the fact that those boys were the last ones to see her, and the fact that they just let them go free, as if they didn't do anything, and they don't know anything is just insane. If the Aruban officals don't solve this crime and give this mother and her family an answer as to what happened to Natalee, I don't believe that any Americans should travel to Aruba, obviously Americans aren't respected in Aruba, so why would we support your country?
I totally agree with Dr. Phil. I have traveled all over the world in the last 35 years. I was an International  Flight Attendant. If I were still flying I would not feel safe going to Aruba. I've never been there, and I have NO interest in going there now.
 
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September 16, 2005, 11:41 pm PDT

09/15 The Disappearance of Natalee

Quote From: nbbosch

Name calling of any kind is basically a reflection of the mind of the person saying it. I am certain you can see the futility of taking one angry comment as a reflection of the American people as a whole. I do think, however, I feel that something went completely and terribly wrong that night that Natalee disappeared and that the last people seen with her are responsible. That they have not come up with an adequate explanation of where Natalee is....tells me that to tell us where she is would land them in jail for life. Consequently, it is an insult to my intelligence as a human being that lies are more important to Aruban authorities than the truth, cover up is more important to Aruban authorities than the truth, and protecting the people most likely to have caused Natalee's disappearance is more important to Aruban authorities than the truth of where is Natalee Holloway. That a father would enable his son to escape responsibility for the disappearance of another person by using his authority and social status and education....is the most horrendous part of this very sad story.
 It is not the expression of one person on TV. Look  in this message board and read the many  outrageous comments on our supposed  liberal country.

Americans have to face the fact that on Aruba Dutch law is implemented and that means that a suspect is not guilty untill the last decision of the judge. No judge in the Netherlands or Aruba will convict an accused WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE. And there is simply no evidence that those boys have commited a crime. I am not saying they did not  in fact .... but there is no evidence at all.

I agree with you about the role of the father, it's rather strange what he did. But again, no clear evidence has not pop up yet.  But you are talking about a matter of "social status and education"?  So what?  American justice is based on that 'values', we see that almost every day on  TV. 

There is a close friendship between the USA and The Netherlands for more than 200 years, from the very beginning you started to celebrate Indepence Day. But with all those insults and groundless accusations i can say that with such a friend the dutch people does not need an enemy anymore.
 
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September 17, 2005, 12:48 am PDT

Missing the Point Again

Quote From: passive

    These boys are being accused simply because they were the last ones to be seen with Natalee. I can't believe that you are dismmising them as suspects. maybe they have shown to EXPERTS that they are not guilty, but I think they are pathological liars, and you are believing all of them. They may be innocent but don't ignore the facts. They were the last to be seen with her, if they didn't do anything they know who did. they lieing to protect someone.
Where did I say I dismissed them as suspects? Perhaps they do know what happened, perhaps not. Who are you or I to say that they are guilty or not guilty? Have you spoken to them, or have I? No, we have not. I do not believe I am ignoring the facts, I am just saying that instead of slandering and prosecuting these people before a trial, why not look at all the facets. I also do not believe that the world should stop because of one missing girl. I understand her mother's plight, but how many tourists go missing? I'm not trying to belittle the mother's pain, I'm honestly not. But instead of the American way of jumping to conclusions, maybe more emphasis should be put on searching instead of adhering to propeganda.
 
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September 17, 2005, 12:55 am PDT

09/15 The Disappearance of Natalee

Quote From: melanyka

To say that the girl was stupid to get into the car is unfair. The girl was more than likely given drugs and that is how they were able to get her in their car, and maybe that is the reason why she was not screaming and kicking. You are quick to put the blame on the teachers and the parents, however, the guys last seen with her and who know far too much regarding Natalee's garments, in your opinion count for nothing because there is no "proof". That is "proof" enough for me. I think we both know that the chance of Natalee coming home safe is not probable and we also know that not being able to find a body does not mean that no crime was committed.

I'm sorry, but it was a stupid move to get into a car with people she did not know. Why did her friends let her get in that car in the first place? I know that my friends and I look after each other.  How does anyone know that she was given drugs? No. It looks from the evidence that she was not coerced into the car, and that she wanted to go. A date rape drug does not make a person a willing participant. It makes them unable to fight back when physically assaulted. How do I know? Because a close friend of mine was sexually assaulted with a date rape drug. The men who went with her would, of course, know what she was wearing. They have admitted she was in the car. I love how in the States, it's guilty until proven innocent. That's what the country was built on, right? Truth, justice, and the media way. I have a major problem with people using someone else's grief as a way to gain personal fame and notariety. 

  

And I did not place all the blame on the teachers and parents. But I do believe they have a large hand in what happened. If the children (and they are children) had been properly supervised and not allowed to go to a bar until 1:30 am on a school trip (I went on a few of them in my day, and I don't remember being allowed to go to bars...we had a strict curfew).  

 
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September 17, 2005, 8:01 am PDT

My travel agency won't book trips to Aruba anymore...

My friend and I own a travel agency in Cincinnati, Ohio and we're in contact with other travel agency franchises in other cities and a lot of us have TOTALLY STOPPED BOOKING ANY TRIPS TO ARUBA.... This was a place that my husband and I had wanted to plan a family trip to and there is no way on earth I'd ever give my money to Aruba-after the way they have handled this Natalie Holloway case...I just hope that God gives Beth Twitty the strength to continue her fight to find her daughter...and I personally blame the USA officials for sitting back and allowing this to happen.  We need to get in there and fight for our own.  I love President Bush to death and I think he is a terrific President however you can bet your bottom dollar if it was one of his daughters that went missing in Aruba-something would be done and he wouldn't stop until he was given answers and his daughter...  My prayers go out to Natalie and her family....
 
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September 17, 2005, 8:09 am PDT

09/15 The Disappearance of Natalee

Quote From: seaweed

My friend and I own a travel agency in Cincinnati, Ohio and we're in contact with other travel agency franchises in other cities and a lot of us have TOTALLY STOPPED BOOKING ANY TRIPS TO ARUBA.... This was a place that my husband and I had wanted to plan a family trip to and there is no way on earth I'd ever give my money to Aruba-after the way they have handled this Natalie Holloway case...I just hope that God gives Beth Twitty the strength to continue her fight to find her daughter...and I personally blame the USA officials for sitting back and allowing this to happen.  We need to get in there and fight for our own.  I love President Bush to death and I think he is a terrific President however you can bet your bottom dollar if it was one of his daughters that went missing in Aruba-something would be done and he wouldn't stop until he was given answers and his daughter...  My prayers go out to Natalie and her family....
Why are you people so paranoid? We don't stop going to New York, even though the chances of getting killed there is way higher than getting killed in Aruba!
 
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September 17, 2005, 8:19 am PDT

Every story has two sides

I have been a loyal viewer of Dr.Phil his show, until this show aired. I am very disappointed, and mind you I'm stating this very politely, about Dr.Phil. He is generalizing and judging all of us as Arubian citizens, without taking the time and effort of hearing us out. How fair is this? Every story has two sides, and regretfully only one side is speaking up, why don’t you give us the opportunity to speak up, there are a whole lot of things we would like to say. And not in our defense, since we do not have defend ourselves, ands this is because we have not done anything wrong. You Dr.Phil are just as unfair as Nancy Grace, since you are leaving a whole lot of facts out of the whole picture, just so thatArubaand its people can be portrait as a stupid. How stupid are we really? Can you or for that matter any American, really answer me in my language? Don’t think so.


Are there no disappearances in your beloved country? Hell, yes. We Arubians are peaceful of nature, but we can only take that much unfair criticism. If I may give you some friendly advice go do some fact finding onAruba, take the time to hear us out, but don’t judge us just by hearing half of a story.


Secondly go do some fact finding with Natalee her friends, strangely there has been nothing then silence at that end. And third take a good look at Natalee her history and her families.


A PROUD ARUBIAN.

 
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September 17, 2005, 8:37 am PDT

A Concerned Citizen

Dear Dr. Phil,

  

 

  

 

Let me begin by saying that I have always enjoyed your appearances on the Oprah show, admired your “no-nonsense” response and forth righteousness.  However, your recent show on the disappearance of Natalee Halloway disappointed me greatly.

  

 

There have already been too many one-sided reports by the US media on this issue, and when we (the people of Aruba ) heard that Dr. Phil would devote an hour on this issue, we thought that maybe finally, the story would have a fair and HONEST view.  Our hopes for fairness were crushed while watching your one-sided show.  Yet again, a member of the US media, a TRUSTED member, let the country of Aruba down.   What happened here with Natalee is a terrible tragedy, and that you are willing to put forth your effort to help her mother find the truth is commendable.  HOWEVER, blaming an entire country and its people for what happened is simply too horrible, unrealistic and untrue for words.

  

 

Aruba did ALL it could and more to help find Natalee and solve the mystery.  Do you know of one instance that somewhere in your country people were given days off from work to help search for a missing person?? Do you know of one instance in your country that F-16 planes were sent in the air to look for a missing girl??  Many Aruban rescue-teams turned the island upside-down—damaging the natural habitats on the island—people opened their homes, restaurants, hotels and hearts to aid the family and CONTINUE to do so.

  

 

 How many girls disappear in the U.S.A. on a monthly or weekly basis? 

  

 

How many young girls on college campuses are being raped with the date-rape-drug?

  

 

How many unsolved murders, attacks, abductions, etc., are there in your country EVERY DAY?? 

  

 

Almost daily some newspaper in your country has such a report!  Are you advising people NOT to go to your shows in California , where at least two men of whom most people think one murdered his wife and the other molested children, WALK FREE??  But you believe in your justice system, right? Well we believe in ours too, and as long as there is no HARD evidence to prove that the three boys committed a crime, you simply cannot prosecute, no matter how frustrating this sometimes may be!

  

 

Then, at last, to correct some comments made in your show: that sometimes drugs are put in drinks is a sad given around the world, so also in your country, but to suggest that it is common practice in Aruba , is preposterous!  We are part of the Dutch kingdom (so your comment that the v.d. Sloots “fled” is also unjust, they can be picked up in Holland just as easy!), a law-abiding country, where such a situation, being proven, most certainly would be prosecuted!! Mr. v.d. Sloot is NOT a judge, he was in training to BECOME a judge, which is no longer the case. Aruba cannot prosecute Joran for having sex, with an apparently drunk, Natalee, she is 18yrs old, which in our country (and in the US) is considered adult and she willingly got into the car with the three boys.  For three months these boys were interrogated by our local police assisted by your FBI— as well as interrogated by special agents flown in from Holland again and again, and no definite proof came out of all that. And the “holier then thou” natalee-presentation is, although very understandable from her mother’s side, also a little beside the truth, according to different reports.  You just have to go to one spring-break in your own Florida to see how happy celebrating teenagers behave, so again: don’t blame Aruba for that!  Don’t misunderstand me, it is a very sad case!, which affected us all in Aruba very deeply, after all, in all the years of millions of tourists coming to our island this was a first for us! We are an island of very hospitable peace-loving people, which millions of your countrymen, among them many repeat guests, can affirm, if you only let them!... so don’t put blame on us for something that could have happened anywhere to anyone !.Do you know, that in spite of all the negative publicity about Aruba from your country, the people in Aruba have made a generous effort to collect money (already more than $40.000, which for a small country like ours is, don't you think, a substantial amount!) for the disaster in New Orleans?!, something which can't be said of the US when we had a natural disaster last year in our small country!  And again, I applaud you for assisting Beth in finding the truth about a mothers worst nightmare, and I wish you the greatest success in doing so, but please, do so with an open and fair mind!!

  

 

Trynke de l’Isle,

  

 

Just a concerned Aruban citizen, who by the way, just to let you know, doesn’t know any of the people involved in this case.

  

 

 
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