Topic : 09/15 The Disappearance of Natalee

The case of Natalee Holloway has captured the attention of many millions of Americans. 

I am one American that has great sympathy for the Holloway and Twitty families and want justice to be done.  What I don’t understand is the arrogance of some Americans who have decided to seek vengeance and suggest that a boycott of Aruba is in order. The criminal justice system in Aruba has not completed its task and by all accounts this investigation is not over.  Has it been perfect?  No.  But again, it is not over. 

I noticed in a recent chat room post that a woman is actually wearing a boycott Aruba button.  That posting inspired me and I realized the world would be a better place if more people like her existed and were concerned about children and people in general who are abused, missing and even murdered.  She is right; when a criminal justice system doesn’t work like we want it to work for whatever reason we should strike like heat seeking missiles.  I suggest the following actions and we all could get and proudly wear the following buttons. 

Boycott Florida

A convicted sex offender, John Couey, who was actually living across the street from Jessica, killed Jessica Lunsford in February 2005. It appears that neither Florida officials nor the federal government have any desire to monitor sex offenders. Reports on Fox and other media outlets have indicated that 3 individuals actually aided and assisted Couey and that Jessica was hidden bound and alive in the individual’s trailer before her murder.  Her father was quoted “I will never see my daughter Jessie go on her first date. I will never be a grandfather to her children.”  To date Couey’s confession is no longer admissible in court and the 3 individuals alleged to have assisted him are walking free.  This is a good chance to deliver a real blow to Florida. With all the shark attacks and hurricanes a boycott would be a no brainier. We could put a million or two people out of work, plunge the state into poverty and teach them a real lesson. The senior citizen population in Florida can fondly relive the great depression, heck they’ll live like they did before. I will forward the buttons to you ASAP. 

Boycott California

This is an easy one! To date no one has been sentenced for the murder of Nicole Simpson and Ron Goldman. The police have forensic evidence, two bodies and a fleeing suspect. Wow!  This is even easier than Florida. If by any stretch of the imagination you think the system worked, give the families of Nicole and Ron a call. We can get a triple hit here; we can stick it to a state that is on the brink of bankruptcy by boycotting their tourism, agriculture and entertainment industry.  The button should read “Boycott California No Veggies – No Movies- No Mickey Mouse”.  We also get a chance to put a lot of illegal Mexicans out of work and teach them a lesson for all the Americans abducted vacationing in Mexico. This is getting fun we are changing the world. 

Boycott Minnesota

Wow the super bowl of Boycotts!   Joseph Edward Duncan, 42, accused of molesting 8-year-old Shasta Groene and killing three members of her family, was a repeat sex offender. He was convicted in Minnesota of murder for raping and burning a young boy and was released on bail. That’s right released!  According to officials he is also being investigated for several other murders of children in California and Washington State. After his release on bail from Minnesota, he fled and a month later kidnapped Shasta and her brother.  The bodies of her mother, another brother and her mother’s boyfriend were found bludgeoned. Dylan’s body was later found and Shasta was repeatedly molested. 

Child advocate officials call Duncan “a poster boy for a broken system, a repeat offender who knows the system doesn’t work”. Look out Minnesota our buttons are coming out and it’s going to be a cold winter. By the time we are done with your state you are going to think that you are all extras in the remake of Dr. Zhivago.  (Not produced in California see above) 

So there- we have really started a revolution and gained nothing by misplaced anger that results in hurting innocent people.  This is just one American’s point of view.  

Hello all, this comes from a dutch guy, with aruban family-ties, who's lived in the US and has friends and relatives over there.

You could say my feelings are somewhat in the middle of all this ;)

I must say that it saddenes me to see how people always tend to approach a certain issue purely from their own point of view, and react overemotional and defensive at that.

I hope you will consider my words as I'll try to adress some issues mentioned and look for a real solution, instead of just venting my own fears and frustrations here as so many do.

Please bare with me..

-What would you like to see happen?

Almost everyone would like to see this case solved, hoping for a happy end but realistically waiting for a confirmation of a crime. 

This is one thing that unites us all so please keep that in mind.

-A virgin? 

This is irrelevant on how the outcome must be looked upon. 

People saying she is a virgin only want to play into the emotion of the public, making Natalee look more innocent and pure.

-Dressed or behaved like a slut?

This is irrelevant on how the outcome must be looked upon. Some people on the defense of Aruba say that she was probably dressed as a slut and acting wild. 

It doesn't matter whether Natalee was dancing on tables in her bare boobs or not. Nothing or nobody has the right to take another persons live or to force sex upon somebody else. In a normal (and sadly perfect) world Jennifer Lopez should be able to run butnaked through the Bronx at night without anything happening to her. 

Hence: the circumstances concerning Natalees appearance don't deduct from the crime. Stop saying it.

-Aruba vs. US. vs. Holland?

No and don't make it so. Yes its so easy to generalize but the world ain't black or white its full of shades of grey. So please stop talking about the entire island and its people being corrupt, wrong, lazy and incompetent. It will only stimulate and entice Anti-US reactions as we have seen here already. So please target individuals, officials or commitees as much as possible.

On the other hand, don't even start about all the wrongness and wrongdoings of the US. Yes you could write books about it but thats besides this case.

-Cover up, Corrupt authorities, and nationwide conspiracies?

Ofcourse Aruba has corrupt politicians and officials. As do the Dutch, the US and every other country. Prorato the total number of politicians i'd say. 

Never say though that entire governments and legalsystems are corrupt. There are good guys and bad guys in every layer of every society. Unfortunately you have to work your way around that..

Now reasonable thought must conclude Aruba toppoliticians have some brains...so what would they think would hurt Aruba the least? 

Solving the case, regaining US confidence, probably saving tourism, the economy, at the expense of one son of an judical official? 

Or having suspision roam, not solving the case and facing bad sentiment and economic consequences?

Would the entire Aruban government put its name and economy up for grabs because of 1 kid whos father is a judge in training? Come on...

-Lack of effort?

Expert search parties, civilian searchparties and admitting US experts and search parties.

The dutch Employing marines, sending experts and hightec Airforce resources is by far more than most would've done. That includes the US.

Acknowledge it and respect it.

-Black vs. White?

Thank god that Joran is as white as Natalee. This is not about race so don't turn the subject this way. This is about a missing person.

But it gets so much attention bla bla bla. Yes and good for them. Because she is very persistant and maybe rich Beth Twitty gets a lot of media coverage...well good for her and her cause. You getting fed up with the news about it doesn't weigh up to the loss of this family. 

Yes and good for them. Because she is very persistant and maybe rich Beth Twitty gets a lot of media coverage...well good for her and her cause. You getting fed up with the news about it doesn't weigh up to the loss of this family.

She wouldn't have gotten this much attention if she were black.....Well America is a 'white society'. People tend to feel more compassion the closer something hits home. And it hits home more when the people this happens to are from closeby and resemble you and/or your loved ones. Guess what this is HUMAN and it goes for all of us. The closer it comes, the more it gets to us, this includes sex, age, nationality, past experience, location and RACE. Its human don't deny it get over it.

...Well America is a 'white society'. People tend to feel more compassion the closer something hits home. And it hits home more when the people this happens to are from closeby and resemble you and/or your loved ones. Guess what this is HUMAN and it goes for all of us. The closer it comes, the more it gets to us, this includes sex, age, nationality, past experience, location and RACE. Its human don't deny it get over it.

-Is Aruba Dangerous?

For this you have to turn to the facts, concluding that there is a low murderrate. Its probably more dangerous to stay where you live.

So overemotional people who say things like, "I won't go to Aruba cause i might get lost or murdered" are talking irrational crap.

-Should you let your kids party in Aruba?

The question must be "Should you let your kids party?" and "In what fashion?". Partying, going out is not different in Aruba than most places else. Don't consider it in relation to the island, but think about how "experienced" and responsible your kid is, and what kind of supervision there is or who he/she will be going with.

Experienced kids and young adults don't leave their drinks, don't take drinks or pills from strangers and don't get in cars with them or leave the site with out notifiying others. Furthermore peers should look out for eachother and have eachothers backs.

-Natalee might be alive or even a runaway?

Some defendants of Aruba have stated this, also pointing out strange behaviour of the parents and disturbed family relations.... Come on, please, this is hurtfull...

Runaways tend to Runaway from home AT home. They want to escape a certain situation and cant deal with it.

Runaways do not tend to escape in the middle of the night after a wild party on a tropical Island together with friends after graduating......

No Natalee is also not hiding succesfully for 3 months, was not sold on a slave trade in South America, nor is she recruited by Jihad warriors who happen to enjoy some aruban sun.

This is all possible..but not likely, and since we gotta make do with clues we must rely upon reason, logic and commensense, not forgetting to place ourselfs in the situation of others.

-Joran a dangerous murderer?

Probably not... 

Again, thinking this through and putting yourself in others positions will let you see the most probable scenario..Most people including criminals (re)act just like me and you...most of the time..they just go a little bit further some times..But most aren't the exact opposite from us. Certainly not at such an (young) age!

The most probable scenario is not that of a murderous madman roaming the island looking for fresh blood. But that of a macho-adolescent who is living la vida loca looking for some nice p**** (sorry ms. Twitty). Being (over) confident, imposing and welspoken he hooks up with partying Natalee who enjoys some nice bacardi-cokes. Being irresponsible young arrogant and bad, he employs a trick learned from hangin' with the wrong friends giving her a party pill or some such drug. She's in a haze and easily complies with going along to his place. Her friends don't notice it because she and Joran have been probably been making out in different corners and hallways already. Eventually Joran half date-rapes her when the fatal and well-known combination of exhaustion, dehydration, alchohol and drugs make poor unresponsible Natalee pass away.

What would he do? Go to the hospital and police and turn himself in, having to admit he drugged her, while his fathers rep. will be tarnished along with it? Or, being the guy he is, panic, curse and then decide whats done is done and get rid of the body.

Even though its bad and sad every human would contemplate these two options.

-Is Daddy v/d Sloot also a criminal?

No, at least not until later.. and he probably hasn't educated his son in drugging and/or killing girls.

But he has probably reacted in a way a lot of parents will do. You say no?? Put yourself in his position!!!

The right thing would be to talk it through with your son (considering he knows what happened and confessed it to his dad), go to the police and make a confession.

Some parents will no longer whish to deal with their kid and leave him to it.

But a common human reaction to a son who is panicing and telling you an accident has happened and this girl has died from a pill or something, is to think "I can't get this girl back, but i can save my son and preserve his feature. Thus helping Joran to beat the judicial system, getting more and more involved and eventually trying to hide some clues and use your own friend-network to get your son out of jail.

While this is wrong it is the most logical thing to have happened. Isn't it common knowledge that a parent will do almost ANYTHING to save his kid. Think of your own and if they would do something bad..Also a lot of people won't acknowledge the fact their kid could do something so horrible.. 

-Bad Arubans, lets Boycot!!

Are you doing this to feel better yourself, or to help?? Be honest now, since daddy Holloway has expressed his feelings against this plan, as can be read in his letter:

[http://www.arubatruth.com/uploaded_images/letter-796534.JPG

A boycot will lead to punishing all people on Aruba, resulting in jobloss, a declining economy, resulting in more poverty and...how ironic...increase in crimerates..

This is once again a human factor which happens this way all around the world.

I hope i proved a point earlier already that the Aruban govt has already everything to gain from a solution of this case. Making the people pay for it won't add to that..

-But we wanna help!

Do you? Or did you came here to vent frustration only? Well if you do that's good, let me offer some solutions to help:

>>SOLUTION 1: Think about what you would like to accomplish US people!..By alienating arubans from you and this case, chances of it being solved will continue to slim to nonexistant. Why not use all these and US/Aruban messageboards to discuss possible scenarios and solutions with the aruban people? Who knows maybe someone will feel compelled to offer a clue or some ex-classmate offers new insights on Van der Sloot. Did any of you ever thought about cooperating??? It is a US/Aruban situation. Ask any kid on your block how to solve a problem concerning two people the quickest...together or alone...with or against??

So i expect al these helpfull moms on this forum to open 1 or more messageboards and invite arubans to come and discuss possibilities and solutions. Unless ofcourse its too much effort. It is easier to just vent your frustration and be gone...

>>SOLUTION 2: Ask the Twitty's Holloway's how to help!!! Hmm could it be they know best? Maybe the need to raise funds, maybe they need signatures...maybe...just ask instead of thinking up your own obvious solutions, AS DR. PHIL has done....

>>SOLUTION 3: Follow clues and investigate. This site talks about a selfproclaimed pimp and drugsdealer whom Joran has hanged out a lot with, sheds a whole lot of insight on their attitudes towards girls and their means of persuasion...maybe some "good" arubans know this guy (its a small island) and can offer clues..the truth is out there. 

see: [http://www.planethuff.com/darkside/archives/cat_the_vanishing_of_natalee_holloway.html

>>SOLUTION 4: Instead of slacking the Aruban govt. put pressure on your own Govt. to send more delegates and experts and keep cooperating with the Arubans on a high level untill its finished. Don't you think your Govt. can pressurize and guide the Aruban authorities much more effective than all you civilians can? If this issue becomes of national importance you can bet every means will eventually be employed to dig up the truth.

Ok, instead of slacking people and countries i've looked at this situation from several angles and thought of real cooperative solutions and not reprocussions. Hope you all will do the same. Good luck. And if you post, pls respond to this so this discussion moves forward and becomes coherent.

I don't see any proof of the so-called corruption of the government. There is no proof that there has been a cover-up of any kind, and I do not believe there was. The Dutch government does not protect its own citizens when they have committed a crime. 

Please do not talk about things you do not know enough of. 

Well, all I can say is I want what you are having! 

I thought Crissyweb's post was outstanding, and I can add at least one more:  The Jon Benet Ramsey case in Boulder. 

People are so situationally ethical these days!  The media hypes up a case, general hysteria follows, and then we end up with silly boycotts based on something that happens here in the US all the time!   

What you guys are missing is that you can feel horrible for Beth Twitty and what she's going through.   And you can hope and pray that there's some resolution of this issue.   

But I have yet to see anyone make a rational case that Americans have the right to hold a Caribbean island to a higher standard than we have here.   These are completely separate issues. 

So sure, if someone here makes a legit promise to avoid any US city that had participated in a cover up of a murder, well enjoy your stay at home.  But I can't diss your ethics - at least you're consistent.  But the rest of you haven't made your case yet :)