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Topic : 12/22 Little Mean Girls

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Created on : Friday, September 16, 2005, 04:29:18 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Airdate: 09/20/05) They kick, they spit, they punch, they even cuss. Parents say their precious daughters have turned into "little mean girls." Mark and Heather are divorced and can't agree on how to parent their 6-year-old daughter, Montanna. Is Mark's macho personality making Montanna more aggressive? Or is it because Heather doesn't believe in spanking? Then, Jana and Cory are worn out by their 4-year-old daughter, Alyssa, and her bullying behavior. She bullies, name calls and screams at the top of her lungs. What are they doing wrong, and how can they make her behave? And Michelle says she has created a spoiled brat and giving in has become easier than fighting her "princess." Do you have any advice for these guests? Tell us.

 

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December 22, 2005, 6:56 am PST

Your missing the most important step

Quote From: cami80

I am the youngest of 7, my parents are raising their 16th child... I don't agree with the yelling my mother did, but the spankings I got molded me to the proud person I am today. Corporal punishment is not the ONLY way to punish, but a good methode when used correctly. As long as you follow these general steps in what ever way works best for your family. 1. Calm down... don't be angery while punishing. 2. Quietly talk about what the child did wrong and why they are getting a "spanking". 3. Don't forget to tell them, you love them so very much and what would have happened if they had not made the wrong choice. 4. Be consistant, every time they make this wrong choice they just got punished for... make sure to punish. "Spankings" are not cruel, and are usefull, just don't be too aggresive. 

This is just punishment which gets the kids attention but what about discipline?  You have to set the child up for success by providing clear guidelines on what behavior is expected and reward that behavior.  If you miss this step and just worry about punishment then all your doing is reacting and that is not going to get you too far.  With proper discipline punishment is almost unnecessary.   Our school has eliminated punishment almost completely because they use good consistent discipline. If a school of almost 700 kids can manage well then I think the same thing will work in every home.  Yes discipline is more work and takes more consistency but it is about active parenting not passive parenting.  If you just react to the problems you will be fighting a loosing battle.  Whacking a kid in a calm consistent way is still a very passive form of parenting.  You have to engage when things are going well and need a plan in place to keep them that way.  You can seriously escalate bad behavior by giving that more attention then the good.  All the families on this show are great examples of that.

  

 

  

 

Personally I don’t need to punish my kids.  I can ignore most bad behavior because I am a cheerleader for good behavior.  I don’t remember the last time I used a time out.  I consistently get glowing reports about my kid’s behavior so I must be doing something right.  Things like: “Your kids are so helpful and polite and well mannered.”   “They are a pleasure to be around.”  Yes I have gotten one through the teenage years and you know she was a pleasure to be around then too.  I look forward to those years with my other children. 

  

 
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December 22, 2005, 7:57 am PST

A LITTLE FEAR CAN BE A GOOD THING.

Quote From: tuffstuff

Just wanted to say thanks but no thanks. Corporal punishment or even the threat of it isn't an option for our family . A threat is a threat and if you truly want your children to live in fear of you when they have made a mistake then I guess that will be your option. Consistency is the key in our home. We all have to do what is right in our own families. I guess if the belt threat works for you then you'll do that. I'll have to stick to what we do. I do know there are a lot of other options out there. Good luck to you with 4 kids. Life will always have exciting moments for you.

  

You never have to take it as far as corporal punishment if your raising your kids right 

a little bit of fear and respect go hand in hand. 

  

 
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December 22, 2005, 8:36 am PST

12/22 Little Mean Girls

Quote From: jenkev91

I too have stripped a bedroom to bare bones. But in addition to consistency, you have to be just as disciplined with your own life. This includes things like proper diet and excersise, alcohol intake, language, respect for our spouses or partner, time at the computer, time in front of the t.v., disciplined in your faith, cleanliness in our homes. Our children are watching everything we do! We need our children to know that we have rules to follow also, and if we can't show that we are disciplined adults, how can we expect them to act accordingly? I evaluate my actions every day and expect more of myself everyday, or it's just not fair to expect more of our children. Boundaries work great with children, they need them. And we need them too! 

Glad to hear I'm not the only one out there who isn't or doesn't have to threaten our kids to get them to cooperate. Keep up the good work. Sounds like your doing a great job!:)
 
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December 22, 2005, 8:39 am PST

Little mean girls

Quote From: lonalea200

 Yes every child is different. But it doesn't change the disipline that needs to be taught.   Too many little  mean girls is the blame for bad parenting. I brought up my point because I feel that it is due to bad parenting because parents want to be their childs friend not a parent.  Too many parents these days just give in and they shouldn't.  Making excuses for the child only makes things worse and takes the blame on what is really happening.   A lot of people blame child behavior as some kind of illness. In todays society, everyone seems to be concearned that their child has an illness wether it be ADD or Anti-social personality.  You know what, that is a bunch of baloney and those children who really have an illness get shoved aside. It also is a way the parents don't have to admitt that they have done bad parenting. So this is my opionion. I attack the subject as a whole and not an individuale case. 

Liz 

You didn't say how old he was when he hurt the dog.  If he was very young he wouldn't have know better but if older that puts a different light on the subject.  My youngest was also different from the older kids and when I say that I didn't sit down from the time he learned to walk until he started school except when he was asleep is not exaggeration.  It took a great deal of effort to keep that child productively occupied and under control.  He was very determined and strong-willed.  As it turns out, he is extremely intelligent and curious and this was the reason for his behavior.l  He liked to investigate everything and took everything apart that he could.  It wasn't destructiveness on his part at all.  He is grown now and a really great man.   Still has that spirit of curiosity and has many, many interests.  His wife says that she never knows what he is going to be doing or what new subject he is going to be investigating but is certainly keeps things interesting.
 
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December 22, 2005, 8:40 am PST

Sounds good

Quote From: lh2000

This is just punishment which gets the kids attention but what about discipline?  You have to set the child up for success by providing clear guidelines on what behavior is expected and reward that behavior.  If you miss this step and just worry about punishment then all your doing is reacting and that is not going to get you too far.  With proper discipline punishment is almost unnecessary.   Our school has eliminated punishment almost completely because they use good consistent discipline. If a school of almost 700 kids can manage well then I think the same thing will work in every home.  Yes discipline is more work and takes more consistency but it is about active parenting not passive parenting.  If you just react to the problems you will be fighting a loosing battle.  Whacking a kid in a calm consistent way is still a very passive form of parenting.  You have to engage when things are going well and need a plan in place to keep them that way.  You can seriously escalate bad behavior by giving that more attention then the good.  All the families on this show are great examples of that.

  

 

  

 

Personally I don’t need to punish my kids.  I can ignore most bad behavior because I am a cheerleader for good behavior.  I don’t remember the last time I used a time out.  I consistently get glowing reports about my kid’s behavior so I must be doing something right.  Things like: “Your kids are so helpful and polite and well mannered.”   “They are a pleasure to be around.”  Yes I have gotten one through the teenage years and you know she was a pleasure to be around then too.  I look forward to those years with my other children. 

  

Again glad to hear there are others out there who know it can be done differently... I too have gotten one into college still with a 4.0 GPA, and another teen on his way. Couldn't have asked for better young people in my life.:) Keep up the good work. I'm sure they will continue to bring joy to your life.
 
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December 22, 2005, 9:04 am PST

Amen sister bring back the good old days

Quote From: skbheard

I know that I am probably in the minority, but I still believe in the good book, also known as The Bible, and the verses that say, "Spare the rod and spoil the child" and "Train up a child in the way you would have him go, and when he is older he will not depart from it."  I was raised with good old fashioned discipline, where, if needed, neither of my parents were afraid of spanking their kids.  There are five of us, all productive parents of beautiful and well mannered children, as well as self supporting members of society.  We, too, were raised with the "if you want something badly enough, you'll work for it" philosophy.    I decided that I wanted to be a teacher, and worked my way through college.   

  

Now, as a teacher, I see so many children with little, if any, discipline.  I have heard them tell their parents what to do, try to tell those of us in charge of their education and well being what they will and will not do, be down right mean to others and laugh at it, and I could go on.  I have seen children being raised by grandparents and greatgrandparents because the ones who brought them into the world don't want to be responsible for them.  Something has to change or the leaders of tomorrow won't know how to lead in a positive manner! Unfortunately, we live in a sue-happy society and one where parents are so afraid of this now monster called Child Protective Services that they are afraid to try to discipline their own children!  Don't get me wrong, CPS has it's good points, but when it comes to causing parents to fear having their children removed for discipline, that can be nothing but destructive!  Time out doesn't work for all kids, and there comes an age when, if you try that, you will get told exactly where to get off! (And I don't mean high school age either!) 

  

To those who believe in a little old fashoined discipline, I say "Congratulations" to you! Spread the word that it still works and does no harm. Oh, and for those of you who don't, please note that there is a definite difference between spanking and beating!!  

Although I chose not to spank my children I do believe in firm discipline.  My children are now all productive, rational adults and behave well.  Recently I went into the classroom to do some volunteer work with third-graders and was absolutely shocked at the way those kids behaved. Up out of the chairs, talking over each other, no respect for adults, and no manners whatsoever.  I might have expected a little of that kind of behavior from kindergarteners but not from third-graders. Totally different from when I was a child.  I do think parents are afraid these days because of the Child Protective Services, even if CPS has some good points.  A lot of kids are manipulative and I have seen them claim abuse that never happened while some legitimate abuse cases have gone uncorrected.  Other parents were raised so permissively that they don't even know how to discipline themselves let alone their children.  Sad situation.
 
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December 22, 2005, 9:06 am PST

Spanking

I know that I am going to get creamed for saying this but..............  Sometimes a spanking is necssary.  When I was a child, not so long ago, I got the occasional butt whipping and when I did I knew what I had did there wasn't any question about why I was getting a spanking.  When your child does something that they know, that they know, that know is wrong the need to be disciplined. 

I am expecting a little girl in Feb. and when the time comes if she needs her fanny popped I'm going to do it. 

When I am out in public I can ALWAYS spot the children who are disciplined at home and the ones's who are just let do as they please.   

I think it is so stupid when I hear adults saying "Bobby stop that" over and and over again, it obviously isn't working lady!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Everyone is s worried about damaging there child's self esteem that we are raising a generation of spoiled little monsters that are going to be ill prepared for the real world. 

  

 
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December 22, 2005, 9:20 am PST

Love & Logic way to go!

Quote From: luv2laff

I have read a couple of books on parenting (being the divorced mom of a very active and intelligent 3 year old girl!)  I also works full time outside the home and was starting to think I might not survive this!  They are from the Love and Logic Institute (you can find them online), they are very similar to the way Dr. Phil speaks, but also give you specific examples of real life situations and how to deal with them.  I am also currently taking a 5 week (1 hour a week - 1 night a week) class from Love and Logic - and here's the best part - it's FREE with FREE child care during!!  You can call the L&L Institute and find an instructor in your are!  Hope this helps all and feel free to contact me with questions!
Great to hear that! Glad it worked for you! It is a great program hopefully more people and seek it out. Keep hanging in there. I know it's hard but you have a good program on your side. With that you can do anything.:)
 
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December 22, 2005, 9:46 am PST

Right on Sister!

Quote From: skbheard

I know that I am probably in the minority, but I still believe in the good book, also known as The Bible, and the verses that say, "Spare the rod and spoil the child" and "Train up a child in the way you would have him go, and when he is older he will not depart from it."  I was raised with good old fashioned discipline, where, if needed, neither of my parents were afraid of spanking their kids.  There are five of us, all productive parents of beautiful and well mannered children, as well as self supporting members of society.  We, too, were raised with the "if you want something badly enough, you'll work for it" philosophy.    I decided that I wanted to be a teacher, and worked my way through college.   

  

Now, as a teacher, I see so many children with little, if any, discipline.  I have heard them tell their parents what to do, try to tell those of us in charge of their education and well being what they will and will not do, be down right mean to others and laugh at it, and I could go on.  I have seen children being raised by grandparents and greatgrandparents because the ones who brought them into the world don't want to be responsible for them.  Something has to change or the leaders of tomorrow won't know how to lead in a positive manner! Unfortunately, we live in a sue-happy society and one where parents are so afraid of this now monster called Child Protective Services that they are afraid to try to discipline their own children!  Don't get me wrong, CPS has it's good points, but when it comes to causing parents to fear having their children removed for discipline, that can be nothing but destructive!  Time out doesn't work for all kids, and there comes an age when, if you try that, you will get told exactly where to get off! (And I don't mean high school age either!) 

  

To those who believe in a little old fashoined discipline, I say "Congratulations" to you! Spread the word that it still works and does no harm. Oh, and for those of you who don't, please note that there is a definite difference between spanking and beating!!  

I had posted earlier that I received the occasional butt whipping when I was little.  Not every infraction resulted in a spanking.  I had to do something real stupid to get a spanking.  LIke you I was spanked not beaten.   

My Mom who delivered the spankings, is the sweetest little darling on this earth and she loved me enough to teach me right from wrong.   

I am grown now with a husband and a baby on the way.  Having my butt whipped didn't scar me emotionally, I am not angry at the world,  nor have I ever been in therapy over it .   

I'm not mad at my Mom for spanking me, she is coming up in a few weeks when the baby is born and I am counting the days until she gets here. 

Parents that don't discipline there children are setting them up for failure.  If I came to work and threw a tantrum and broke things I would be fired and possibly taken to jail. My boss wouldn't sit down with me and discuss my feelings with me and explain why it's unaccaeptable to destrpy things. 

 
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December 22, 2005, 11:51 am PST

Parenting has alot to do with it

As a mother of two a girl 8 and a boy 6 I beleive that parenting these days has alot to do with if your child is bullying other kids.  When I was young most bullies did have bad home lives or where plain mean but if their parents found out they didn't stand for it.  These days I see children being taught by their parents to be bullies.  They are told they derserve everything ,they are better than everyone else ( yes I have heard other parents say this to their children).  I am involved in my childrens school alot and when most parents are called in because of how their children treat other children their replies are outragious. "children will be children", "the other kid should learn how to defend themselves" and my all time favorite " my child has problems" usually adhd.  Now before anyone with an adhd child thinks I am attacking them my son has adhd and has had many other problems but as hard as it is I still teach him right from wrong.  If he does anything to another child he is punished I never excuse it with his problem. My children both have manners , the first time I was told how well mannered they were I was happy now I just think how other children for the most part must have absolutely no manners for anyone to think my children have such good manners. They are not overly polite they just know how to say please, thank you and to ask for permission to have something.  To me this is normal I guess not anymore. I recently subbed in a school cafeteria where a child asked for something and the girl next to her said "say please" the reply was " my mom told me that I do not have to say please or thank you to the people who work here".  I highly doubt that the child was making it up.  to me it's time that parents start actually parenting again instead of acting like children themselves.  Teach your child right from wrong, punish them for doing what they are not supposed to be doing or for not doing something they are supposed to do. Set limits and teach them to be kind to other people ( today it seems to be the opposite ).  Oh and learn to hear the words " I hate you " they really don't but that is what kids (and most teenagers) say to get what they want, make you feel guilty or get out of a punishment. As far as being your childs friend, they already have enough and beleive me they don't want you as one. If you raise them well you will find that they will become your freind as an adult and it will be well worth it.
 
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