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Topic : 12/22 Little Mean Girls

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Created on : Friday, September 16, 2005, 04:29:18 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Airdate: 09/20/05) They kick, they spit, they punch, they even cuss. Parents say their precious daughters have turned into "little mean girls." Mark and Heather are divorced and can't agree on how to parent their 6-year-old daughter, Montanna. Is Mark's macho personality making Montanna more aggressive? Or is it because Heather doesn't believe in spanking? Then, Jana and Cory are worn out by their 4-year-old daughter, Alyssa, and her bullying behavior. She bullies, name calls and screams at the top of her lungs. What are they doing wrong, and how can they make her behave? And Michelle says she has created a spoiled brat and giving in has become easier than fighting her "princess." Do you have any advice for these guests? Tell us.

 

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December 23, 2005, 8:12 am PST

12/22 Little Mean Girls

Quote From: fl4012

  

That is exactly why kids today have no respect for their parents. They feel as if they should be treated as an equal. Bull crap, I don't need to earn my kids trust or respect. I brought them into this world. I don't care if they like it or lump it they can deal with it until they turn 18. Parenting is a job and it's not your job to be their friend until they are grown with children of their own. It might not seem like it at the moment but in the end they will thank you for your tough love. I know I thanked my parents. 

I am sorry but the idea that parent must put fear in their children is ludicrious. I believe  that children are to be respected, how else are they going to learn what to expect from others? What you are talking about is bullying and I believe that children face that enough these days. I will not be the one that makes my child live in fear of me or in my home. Period.  

  

Children have no respect these days because parents don't show them respect. Trust me it worked will with every child in my family and I believe that it will continue to work. As to Tough love, be careful that doesn't just become tough. 

  

Lovinglady 

 
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December 23, 2005, 8:35 am PST

Little Mean Girls

Quote From: midwest34

My 4 yr old was kicked out of preschool for her behavior.  She would not do as the teacher instructed and always tried to do or take part in the other childrens work. She is extremely social and very intelligent.  This behavior just started one day and has escalated into a major family problem.  We have been seeing a Psychologist and followed all the advice and after 5 mos- still no improvement. Actually, things have gotten worse.  Has anyone taken their child to a Psychiatrist and had them evaluated?  I feel that may be my next step.  The thought of medicating her makes me sad and makes me feel as if I have failed her as a parent.   

She has slapped me in the face , spit at me in public, ran from me, hit me, scratched me, etc...  I am open to any suggestions.    

Send her to me!!!!!
 

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December 23, 2005, 8:40 am PST

You need different help

Quote From: midwest34

My 4 yr old was kicked out of preschool for her behavior.  She would not do as the teacher instructed and always tried to do or take part in the other childrens work. She is extremely social and very intelligent.  This behavior just started one day and has escalated into a major family problem.  We have been seeing a Psychologist and followed all the advice and after 5 mos- still no improvement. Actually, things have gotten worse.  Has anyone taken their child to a Psychiatrist and had them evaluated?  I feel that may be my next step.  The thought of medicating her makes me sad and makes me feel as if I have failed her as a parent.   

She has slapped me in the face , spit at me in public, ran from me, hit me, scratched me, etc...  I am open to any suggestions.    

If in 5 months your current psychologist has not improved things you need to go elsewhere.  There are several books that all apply Dr. Phil's technique in different ways but the main theme is the same.  If I were in your shoes I would go to extremes with behavior modification now before she is big enough to do real damage and prior to trying medication.   This will be difficult for the first few weeks but should pay off.  If you can afford it hire some help or recruit family or friends to provide support during the initial period.

  

 

  

 

Strip her world of everything but what she needs (3 healthy meals and water(no juice or milk)) , mattress pillow and blanket and one outfit per day plus pjs and undies.  No snacks, No Juice.  Meals should be a form of protein and some veggies.  Stay clear of refined carbohydrates and sugar in any form including fruit for a while.  She should have a bare room that just contains her bedding and a big clock or a timer.  She should be restricted to that room and your attention to her should only be when she is in a clam pleasant state.  You should be able to focus a great deal of your time with her during this time.   Your attention (or attention of any calm adult) is her first payoff for being good.  While she is good she should not be left alone for more then 5 minutes except when she is a sleep.   Bringing in a book or game or a single toy to play with her at a time is fine but it should be removed when you leave.  Any misbehavior means you leave the room (withdraw your attention) and she is left alone for 5 minutes of her being in a calm pleasant state.  Never enter the room if she is not in a calm pleasant state unless you fear for safety.   Get a baby cam so you can monitor without giving her attention.   If she is good for a specific amount of time (say 1 hour) then she can leave the room but must remain with you at all times.  Any negative behavior should return her to her room.  This room remains bare until she is living in the house with out problem behaviors for a period of 1 week.  She does not leave the house until she has been good for a month.  Any bad behaviors you step back room restriction and let her work her way back.  Then you slowly return things to her.  The first thing she earns is freedom from the room and then freedom from being at your side then her stuff back and then treats and goodies like TV.  You will need lots of help during this first period because you need to be calm and not react to any of her behavior.

  

 

  

 

You need to be very clear with her what good behavior is and but is negative behavior. 

  

 

You should monitor and record bad behavior so you know your starting point. 

  

 

  

 

To make this work you have to not yell or punish or show anger in any way other then to return her to the room in a calm way.  If necessary put a chain lock at a high point on the outside of the door so she can’t reach it but can still open the door.  Ensure the room is safe. 

  

 

  

 

If after 3 days you don’t see improvement in her behavior (expect it to get worse for the first day or two) then get a preschool behaviorist to work with you.  Don’t continue without help if you are not seeing improvement within 1 week.  Once you are in a more normal state with her then you will need to chart her progress and ensure she stays on track. 

  

 

  

 

I would recommend once she is on track following How to behave so your Preschooler will too or the book for older kids.

  

 

  

 

Don’t even consider medication until you've done some form of extreme behavior modification. 

  

 

  

 

To do this you will need a second adult in the house at all times for the first week at least to support you.  You need buy in from that adult and you need other assistance for at least a month if not two because she won’t be leaving the house until she is under complete control.  It takes 3 months to form a habit so you should have 3 months of proper behavior before you put it to the test in a situation where you do not have complete control and can’t just pick her up and leave as soon as you see a problem.   

 
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December 23, 2005, 11:29 am PST

12/22 Little Mean Girls

Quote From: midwest34

My 4 yr old was kicked out of preschool for her behavior.  She would not do as the teacher instructed and always tried to do or take part in the other childrens work. She is extremely social and very intelligent.  This behavior just started one day and has escalated into a major family problem.  We have been seeing a Psychologist and followed all the advice and after 5 mos- still no improvement. Actually, things have gotten worse.  Has anyone taken their child to a Psychiatrist and had them evaluated?  I feel that may be my next step.  The thought of medicating her makes me sad and makes me feel as if I have failed her as a parent.   

She has slapped me in the face , spit at me in public, ran from me, hit me, scratched me, etc...  I am open to any suggestions.    

Can I ask what your psychologist suggested you do?

Also, has your daughter ALWAYS been this way or is this a very recent thing?  Is there something in her life recently that she may be having trouble adjusting to: a move, a divorce, loss of a loved one, etc...?

Before taking her to a psychaitrist  talk to her pyschologist and her pediatrician about possible MEDICAL reasons she may be acting this way.  If neither of them can recommend psychiatric intervention I would not suggest  taking that route.   However if one or the other (especially her pediatrition) thinks it is nessecary then by all means take her to a psychaitrist.   Now, if the psychiatrist suggests a behavioral disorder  may be the cause, don't panic.   It does NOT mean your child is a horrible person and doomed to be stigmatized by society.  (I have a behavioral disorder myself, that deals with the inability to deal with anger appropriately) 

Behavioral Disorders are relatively rare, it just may be that the methods of discipling your daughter that you've been using just do not work for her.   That doesn't mean your a BAD parent, it just means that you need to try something else.   Give easch new method at least a month or two of consistent use before you decide it doesn't work.  You can't give up.

I'm sort of interested in the first part of your statement that she was always intersted in what OTHER children are doing.  Did her teacher say that she tended to finish her work quickly and then did this or that she just IGNORED her own work in favor of what other children were doing?  Mention this problem in particualr to her psychologist this may indicate to  that her mind needs to be constantly occupied due to her intelligence, and she may need somethign alittle more challenging to do.

Now, when do YOU notice her behaving agressively towards you?  Is it just when she doesn't get her way or is it  all the time?  Somewhere along the line she's decided that this gets her what she wants.  The fact that she RUNS away from you to avoid punishment is very upsetting, if she does this in public she coud be hurt. and I'm sure that's why it concerns you.

You may want to talk over Dr. Phil's suggested method of  discipline with her psychologist and get his/her opinion.   His method seems to get the desired results but I would just check it out with a psychological professional first.  He/she will be able to give you proper guidance in implementing this strategy, and may possibly be able to provide you with variations on it and appropriate studies that have been done on methods like it.


 
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December 23, 2005, 2:37 pm PST

not a bully just a mom

Quote From: lovinglady

I am sorry but the idea that parent must put fear in their children is ludicrious. I believe  that children are to be respected, how else are they going to learn what to expect from others? What you are talking about is bullying and I believe that children face that enough these days. I will not be the one that makes my child live in fear of me or in my home. Period.  

  

Children have no respect these days because parents don't show them respect. Trust me it worked will with every child in my family and I believe that it will continue to work. As to Tough love, be careful that doesn't just become tough. 

  

Lovinglady 

  

Did you hear Dr. Phil when he was talking about the saying"when the cat's away ,the mice will play?" what do you think that means? Children should know that you are watching and that if they do something wrong there will be a punishment. It couldn't be any more simple than that. They should fear that something will happen when they do something wrong because in the real world there is a reaction to every action they take. These children were misbehaving in front of their parents and that just proves my point. People don't go around breaking laws right in front of the police. Do they? oh' yes, people with no respect and do you know where that lack for respect started? At home. See you have it backwards, you dont give your child respect hoping they will return it. You make them earn your respect by behaving in a way that makes you proud. They fear what their own bad behavior will bring them, they don't fear the parent. I am not being a bully I am being real. I will always love my babies whatever happens but I will also make sure that I am sending them down the right path. 

  

 
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December 23, 2005, 2:52 pm PST

Hang in there!

Quote From: midwest34

My 4 yr old was kicked out of preschool for her behavior.  She would not do as the teacher instructed and always tried to do or take part in the other childrens work. She is extremely social and very intelligent.  This behavior just started one day and has escalated into a major family problem.  We have been seeing a Psychologist and followed all the advice and after 5 mos- still no improvement. Actually, things have gotten worse.  Has anyone taken their child to a Psychiatrist and had them evaluated?  I feel that may be my next step.  The thought of medicating her makes me sad and makes me feel as if I have failed her as a parent.   

She has slapped me in the face , spit at me in public, ran from me, hit me, scratched me, etc...  I am open to any suggestions.    

I am sorry for the difficulties you are going through with your daughter.  In my job I have encountered quite a few children over the years that  have displayed similar behaviors.  What sounds different in your daughter's case is the fact that the behaviors came on very suddenly.  I would recommend speaking to your family doctor about a complete physical/psychological screening.  In our area, we have a children's hospital where all assessments can be done in one place.  Perhaps you have something similar where you live.  Start with the complete medical checkup.  Maybe there is something physical that is causing the behavior she is exhibiting.  (That doesn't necessarily mean you will have to medicate her)  You sound like an actively-involved, caring parent.  Best of luck to you and your little one.
 
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December 23, 2005, 2:53 pm PST

Dr Phil Show.

Doctor Phil. I think Girls Little Mean is a not a right thing to do. Bit how ever Grils can be Girls and can grow up aswell. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Well I had better close now. Sincer 

ley Your. Russell Vlaanderen.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 

 
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December 23, 2005, 3:07 pm PST

12/22 Little Mean Girls

Quote From: chloe02

i dont feel it is ever too early to start working on your childs disipline . your husband needs to band together with you on disipline though the child no matter how young knows when mom and dad are divided and they play on that. most people think oh they are too young they dont know but they do. i know i keep refering people to this book but it has really worked wonders for us read it. making children mind without losing yours by dr. kevin leman it applies to any age group there are parts for older children and younger also. hope it helps
Thank you so much. It's nice to see that someone will listen to me. ANd thank you for the advice. It is  much needed at this point.
 
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December 23, 2005, 3:27 pm PST

To Midwest 34

Quote From: midwest34

My 4 yr old was kicked out of preschool for her behavior.  She would not do as the teacher instructed and always tried to do or take part in the other childrens work. She is extremely social and very intelligent.  This behavior just started one day and has escalated into a major family problem.  We have been seeing a Psychologist and followed all the advice and after 5 mos- still no improvement. Actually, things have gotten worse.  Has anyone taken their child to a Psychiatrist and had them evaluated?  I feel that may be my next step.  The thought of medicating her makes me sad and makes me feel as if I have failed her as a parent.   

She has slapped me in the face , spit at me in public, ran from me, hit me, scratched me, etc...  I am open to any suggestions.    

I'm sorry that your family is going through this. I agree with the writer who suggested that you take your daughter in for a medical evaluation. There are many conditions that can cause a sudden behavioral change in a child, e.g. lead poisoning, fever, head trauma, strep infection, allergies, etc. I encourage you to take your daughter in to her pediatrician, insist on a comprehensive evaluation, and don't stop pushing until you get some answers. Like another writer, it concerns me that your daughter's behavioral change had a sudden onset. Best of luck to you and your family.
 
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December 23, 2005, 5:55 pm PST

You are..........................

Quote From: fl4012

  

Did you hear Dr. Phil when he was talking about the saying"when the cat's away ,the mice will play?" what do you think that means? Children should know that you are watching and that if they do something wrong there will be a punishment. It couldn't be any more simple than that. They should fear that something will happen when they do something wrong because in the real world there is a reaction to every action they take. These children were misbehaving in front of their parents and that just proves my point. People don't go around breaking laws right in front of the police. Do they? oh' yes, people with no respect and do you know where that lack for respect started? At home. See you have it backwards, you dont give your child respect hoping they will return it. You make them earn your respect by behaving in a way that makes you proud. They fear what their own bad behavior will bring them, they don't fear the parent. I am not being a bully I am being real. I will always love my babies whatever happens but I will also make sure that I am sending them down the right path. 

  

...........................my hero.  But don't expect anything from this one.  All this discussion is most likely the most attention she's ever had in her life.  Anything of any substance that makes sense in the real world is far removed from her realm of reality.   

  

I love your perspective on the show though.  And I wish I had thought of the police anaolgy - bravo!  But again your good efforts fall on deaf ears - or blind eyes - loonylady that is. 

  

But maybe someone else will get the point. 

 
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