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Topic : 12/21 Shocking Teen Trends

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Created on : Friday, September 23, 2005, 04:43:49 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Airdate: 09/27/05) It's a game many kids call "Space Monkey," or "the choking game," but the consequences could be deadly. Robin witnessed her 14-year-old daughter and her friends giggling, choking and passing out. But what Robin saw was no laughing matter. Find out why her daughter enjoys the game, despite its dangerous repercussions. Then, Sarah's 13-year-old son made headlines when he died playing the choking game. How can she move past the guilt? Plus, Dr. Phil addresses a trend that looks innocent on the surface, but can affect teens in the worst way.  Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

 

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cleveland
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December 22, 2005, 8:37 am PST

The LEGAL ramifications of teen trends

I am a criminal lawyer in Salt Lake City Utah.  After watching your show
today about shocking teen trends, I was shocked that you never once touched
the topic of what could happen to them legally when they choke someone.
First, depending on the state, they are committing the following crimes:
Assault, Battery, Reckless Endangerment, Endangerment of a Child, Criminal
Solicitation,  and Attempted Murder just to name a few.  Not only is the
teen, and the parents, looking at a long jail sentence, the Victim may also
sue the teen and their parents civilly.   Just like the case in Columbine,
the teen and parents are facing million dollar judgments. 

I believe you convinced teens that this is something you should not do to
yourself, however if you talked about the legal ramifications both to
themselves and their parents you would have completed what I believe was
your second objective, to get teens to stop committing this trend.
 
 
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dinsmore
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December 22, 2005, 11:26 am PST

The choking game

Dear Dr. Phil, I called my friend that has a 17 year old step daughter and 15 grandchildern and told her to please watch your program today, that it would or could help her sometime if this ever comes along with her and the children. I'm not saying it would, but it's better to be safe and educated about it then have sorrow later on.  I watch your show all the time and one can learn so much. Thanks Dr. Phil and Robin for a great show.  

 

Best Wishes,  Sandra Dinsmore 
 
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liatsunami
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December 22, 2005, 11:27 am PST

12/21 Shocking Teen Trends

Quote From: cleveland

I am a criminal lawyer in Salt Lake City Utah.  After watching your show
today about shocking teen trends, I was shocked that you never once touched
the topic of what could happen to them legally when they choke someone.
First, depending on the state, they are committing the following crimes:
Assault, Battery, Reckless Endangerment, Endangerment of a Child, Criminal
Solicitation,  and Attempted Murder just to name a few.  Not only is the
teen, and the parents, looking at a long jail sentence, the Victim may also
sue the teen and their parents civilly.   Just like the case in Columbine,
the teen and parents are facing million dollar judgments. 

I believe you convinced teens that this is something you should not do to
yourself, however if you talked about the legal ramifications both to
themselves and their parents you would have completed what I believe was
your second objective, to get teens to stop committing this trend.
 

 Are you sure this is correct?  The participants are WILLINGLY engaging in this behavior.   They are CONSENTING to being chocked  by another person.  Isn't this along the same lines as prosecuting participants of S&M if their partner is hurt?  There's a sexual fetish that also deal with choking that I believe is along the same lines as the S&M argument.  I know for a fact criminial suits like that have been thrown out.  If i had access to my university's law library right now  I'd go try and find the case and ruling for you.

I can understand how a wrongful death suit could insue from this, but a criminial charge? I'm not sure  that would hold up in court.   Of course it may depend on state laws and precedents for that sort of thing.
 
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liatsunami
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December 22, 2005, 11:36 am PST

12/21 Shocking Teen Trends

 This actuallly isn't something that phases me at all.  I've known since I was really young that you can  cause people to pass out and even die if you place enough sustained presure on their  throat near the Adams Apple, or on a woman where it would be.  It actually doesn't take a tremendous amount of force and you can do it withas little as  two fingers.  Marital artists have known how to do this for  along time as well as using other points on the body to make a person lose feeling there, like in the arms and legs.

It's defiantely NOT something people should be screwing with.  These techniques should only be used by people TRAINED to use them and were explicitly developed for self defense and lethal combat. 

What these people are doing is NOT funny, it's very serious.   They're using techniques meant to incapacitate and potentially KILL people for fun.  It's not different than shooting someone in the leg just because you think it's funny.   I think most kids don't  rationalize it in this fashion but I think if they could wrap their minds around that concept then they wouldn't feel so ambivalent about what they're doing.
 
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dinsmore
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December 22, 2005, 12:09 pm PST

OUR CHILDREN

Quote From: clrem03

I also live in a small town, but when I was a kid the only activities were offered to kids on Fridays or Saturday nights other than that the only thing we could do during the week was going to a movie or hang out at the mall or the bus depot. If you had money which in our case we didn't. Our parents were always broke. I feel that if there are more activities that are cost friendly and more frequent, children would be less likely do behave in a  negative fashion, or from my experience it's true. When we got older and there was more for us to do, and we had our own money, we got into less trouble than when we were younger. You are totally right, us as not only adults but parents we are too be held accountable for providing positive activities and places for our children to be. 

I agree with you 100%. Why don't they take some of these buildings that stand empty and make them into places for children and teens to go to that they can afford.  Have a snack bar, dance floor, movie room and a game room. This would keep the kids off of the streets and in a place all children could enjoy.
 
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pharmwife
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December 22, 2005, 1:27 pm PST

Scary

 A friend in our small town recently lost her 17 year old daughter to what was considered a suicide by hanging (in her closet).  But, because she left no note, there is a suspicion that she may have been "playing this game" by herself;  evidently she had done it before with her friends.  In talking with my daughter, who is in her twenties, I found out this also went on in the town we lived in while she and our older son were growing up, altho she  reassured me this was something they would never have participated in, they thought it was nuts.  I felt sure that our youngest son, who is sixteen, would never even consider it either - he's too smart.  But, we also thought he was smart enough not to drink alcohol, and not to drink and drive.  Just last Friday night, we got a call at midnight that he had been stopped for speeding, and had been drinking.  This young man who is usually so level headed, and causes us a minimum of amount of anxiety, suddenly is someone who we can't trust!  Now I'm not sure I can even say, he would never "play this game!"  Believe me, we do monitor his activities, and keep pretty close track of him - he isn't even out that much, socially!  It is so scary being a parent.  Even on the third child, it isn't easy.
 
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alyssa_
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December 22, 2005, 4:31 pm PST

What?

Quote From: alyssa_

OK, i honestly find it very disturbing everyone on here saying how stupid and saying dum monkey. I think its very selfish and inconsiderate. It is no different then drug addictions, anorexia, or self injurers. Theres problems in life and were all here to help everyone through it. Were kids. I personaly dont like the game. But i know some of my friends do. I never call them stupid and anything to affend them that will make them want to do it more and depressed. U guys are adults and i cant believe u cpould say such a rude thing. i dont even know what to think or say anymore. Life is hard, but we all get through it. I help my friends deside not to play the game. And i think everyone else should to. it really makes me cry about what all those message boards said. i knoe i havent been through it but i have been throiugh self injurey i used to and everyone said i was selfish and everything else and this is the same thing. if u want ids to stop help them, let them know what the problem is. dont make fun of them.
what do u mean was i a youth once?
 
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katcoy
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December 22, 2005, 5:27 pm PST

12/21 Shocking Teen Trends

In 1999 I lost my 17 year old brother-in-law to this horrible "Game". PLEASE talk to your kids about this and what can happen if they continue to be involved with it. My BIL was a wonderful, smart kid with his whole life in front of him and his loss has been huge for his family and friends. He was a "good" kid and no one EVER thought to bring this up with him, we never knew this was something he was doing. I TRULY believe that if he had any idea this might kill him he never would have done it. Don't let another night go by without telling your kids how deadly this can be. We will never get over M's loss, he is missed so much.
 
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cleveland
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December 22, 2005, 8:07 pm PST

12/21 Shocking Teen Trends

Quote From: liatsunami

 Are you sure this is correct?  The participants are WILLINGLY engaging in this behavior.   They are CONSENTING to being chocked  by another person.  Isn't this along the same lines as prosecuting participants of S&M if their partner is hurt?  There's a sexual fetish that also deal with choking that I believe is along the same lines as the S&M argument.  I know for a fact criminial suits like that have been thrown out.  If i had access to my university's law library right now  I'd go try and find the case and ruling for you.

I can understand how a wrongful death suit could insue from this, but a criminial charge? I'm not sure  that would hold up in court.   Of course it may depend on state laws and precedents for that sort of thing.

Yes, I am sure this is correct.  The fact the victim  "WILLINGLY" engaged in this behavior or that they "CONSENTED"  by being choked has nothing to do with the elements of the crime.  You CANNOT "consent" to being murdered.    Why do you think Dr. Kevorkian is in prison. 

Additionally, you are right about it being a part of S&M sex, however if you kill or injure someone during the sex act, you will be charged with a crime.  For example The Preppy Murderer in New York City.  He was choking his girlfriend during sex and he went to jail for murder.   The elements of a crime the State must prove have nothing to do with the victim.  Suicide although " willingly" done and "consented" to by the victim, is still a crime. Once again you cannot "consent" to being murdered.   

I think the defense your looking for is "assumption of the risk" and as a criminal defense attorney I would definitely present that to the jury, however from the many cases I've studied,  juries don't find that argument persuasive.  If your child was murdered and the Defendant stated that he's not guilty because your child "asked for it" how persuasive would you find that argument? 
 
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awfulcute
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December 23, 2005, 3:20 am PST

To Cleveland

Quote From: cleveland

Yes, I am sure this is correct.  The fact the victim  "WILLINGLY" engaged in this behavior or that they "CONSENTED"  by being choked has nothing to do with the elements of the crime.  You CANNOT "consent" to being murdered.    Why do you think Dr. Kevorkian is in prison. 

Additionally, you are right about it being a part of S&M sex, however if you kill or injure someone during the sex act, you will be charged with a crime.  For example The Preppy Murderer in New York City.  He was choking his girlfriend during sex and he went to jail for murder.   The elements of a crime the State must prove have nothing to do with the victim.  Suicide although " willingly" done and "consented" to by the victim, is still a crime. Once again you cannot "consent" to being murdered.   

I think the defense your looking for is "assumption of the risk" and as a criminal defense attorney I would definitely present that to the jury, however from the many cases I've studied,  juries don't find that argument persuasive.  If your child was murdered and the Defendant stated that he's not guilty because your child "asked for it" how persuasive would you find that argument? 

Would it be possible for me to contact you? Could you provide your firm's e-mail address or phone number in Utah? 
 
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