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Topic : 12/21 Shocking Teen Trends

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Created on : Friday, September 23, 2005, 04:43:49 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Airdate: 09/27/05) It's a game many kids call "Space Monkey," or "the choking game," but the consequences could be deadly. Robin witnessed her 14-year-old daughter and her friends giggling, choking and passing out. But what Robin saw was no laughing matter. Find out why her daughter enjoys the game, despite its dangerous repercussions. Then, Sarah's 13-year-old son made headlines when he died playing the choking game. How can she move past the guilt? Plus, Dr. Phil addresses a trend that looks innocent on the surface, but can affect teens in the worst way.  Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

 

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December 23, 2005, 6:23 am PST

12/21 Shocking Teen Trends

Quote From: cleveland

Yes, I am sure this is correct.  The fact the victim  "WILLINGLY" engaged in this behavior or that they "CONSENTED"  by being choked has nothing to do with the elements of the crime.  You CANNOT "consent" to being murdered.    Why do you think Dr. Kevorkian is in prison. 

Additionally, you are right about it being a part of S&M sex, however if you kill or injure someone during the sex act, you will be charged with a crime.  For example The Preppy Murderer in New York City.  He was choking his girlfriend during sex and he went to jail for murder.   The elements of a crime the State must prove have nothing to do with the victim.  Suicide although " willingly" done and "consented" to by the victim, is still a crime. Once again you cannot "consent" to being murdered.   

I think the defense your looking for is "assumption of the risk" and as a criminal defense attorney I would definitely present that to the jury, however from the many cases I've studied,  juries don't find that argument persuasive.  If your child was murdered and the Defendant stated that he's not guilty because your child "asked for it" how persuasive would you find that argument? 

 I agree you can't consent to being murdered, but this is a little different.   There is not garuntee by choking somone that they will die.   Now I can realistically see a charge for negligence of some kind.  That really surprises me that the guy in that case got convicted for murder because I was pretty sure about 3-6 years ago there was a case out west  a judge threw out because of  "assumption of risk" was a key factor.  But you would know better than me. I'm not a lawyer, YET.

Plus in the cases you are talking about it's adults, and juries probably assume adults should know better.   Can kids and teens really  weight the risks of their actions?To an extent yes, but not when their making a completely uninformed decision.  So to them thier assuming there is NO risk of death or injury.

It'd be interesting for me to see a case like this go to trial, and what happens.  I can see a lot of  opportunity to present a good and solid defense in situations like this.
 
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December 23, 2005, 8:18 pm PST

12/21 Shocking Teen Trends

Quote From: vanka_dee

I only learned about this "chocking game" a couple of weeks ago on Dateline ..or was it 20/20? Oh what difference does it make, it was one of those kinds of shows. Now keep in mind, I'm only 18 and I was completely in shock. I'd NEVER heard of this. Granted, I was the goody-two-shoes that spent most nights at home studying. But I went to the occasional party, drank a little bit my senior year and watched some of the frightening things other people did. I couldn't believe the stories I heard about this though. It's sad and appalling really. It leads me to wonder who would come up with an idea like this. And why? I know I've always over-analyzed everything and that's probably what kept me out of trouble most of the time, but I really wonder what runs through the mind of a person that thinks playing with death is a game.  My friend found her brother hanging in the garage ..it'll be 4 years in October now and I can tell you it wasn't funny. She's never been the same and neither has the rest of her family. If any "invincible" junior high student happens to be reading this, I hope you remember to think about what you do to those around you when you do such stupid things to yourself whether the end result is intentional or not. 

  

-Kristin 

I wanted to give a little perspective from someone who actually struggles with playing this 'game.'  First off all, a lot of people don't realize this, but the 'choking game' can be addictive. It can be horribly addictive.  I am an adult, and I was introduced to this 'game' at a sleepover when I was nine.  I want to say to all of you who are calling those who do this 'stupid' are only hurting us more and making it even harder for us to stop. There are probably other people reading this who are struggling with this addiction. And yes, it is an addiction, like drugs or alchohol, gamblilng, or overeating- except that it is potentially even more damaging than most of these things. Chances are some of the people making these snide remarks have people they love who are addicted to this. It is not easy to just stop.  Whether it is the endorphon 'high' one gets from it, or the thrill of having cheated death or the sense of release from emotions, people get addicted.  Calling them stupid does not help them, and there are probably other people reading this who are doing it who are too afraid to write but who are hurt deeply by these comments (And I can't imagine the parents of those who died feeling too good either) People who do this know that others consider it stupid. That's why they don't seek help. That, and they are convinced that no one would understand. Sadly, they are often right.  I have sought help from a counselor and was greeted with a complete lack of understanding. I also joined an online support group for addictions and was laughed at and basically sent packing.  Well, now there is a place for those of us who struggle. There is a new yahoogroup for anyone who is struggling with this activity, and for those who love them and intend to be supportive. Anyone coming to tear people down will be banned and reported.  If you want to join, go to http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/stopchoking/  It was started by a concerned friend and we are looking for a mental health professional with experience in this area to participate in the group. 

    This activity becomes addictive, and after a while, it is no longer fun. You kind of hate doing it, but you cannot stop.  You think about it when you shouldn't, and you suffer, for the most part, in silence. You know that each time you give in and tie up that cord or rope or belt that this could be the time you mistime releasing it and die. But often there is denial, it won't happen to me, after all, I've done it so many times before...and those little voices tell you its ok to do it.   

    If you have never done this activity DON'T START. IT IS NOT EVEN REMOTELY WORTH IT.  Some people will do it once and never again but some people won't be able to stop. 

 
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December 24, 2005, 8:32 am PST

Educational Material

Hello, my name is Scott Metheny and I am a police officer in Upper Moreland Township, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. I am also the DARE Officer for my township. On September 27th of this year, two mothers that I know came to me and asked if I knew of the "choking game." They told me of a party over the summer where there were 16 eighth grade girls and 8 of them played this game with one girl passing out. They wanted me to educate the kids about how dangerous this was. I had not heard of it, but immediately looked into it. I was shocked when I learned how wide spread this was and how many kids are dying from it. I immediately became consumed with putting together a presentation for the kids to educate them on the dangers of this deadly activity. I knew that in order to get the kids to realize the importance, it had to emotionally affect them as well. I have used this presentation in my school district for grades 6-12 and I am scheduled to do presentations in other school districts in January. I have also scheduled parent meetings to educate them as well.  I have made my presentation available to many others and know that it is being used in many other states across the country. You can view my presentation at http://stop-the-choking-game.com in the downloads section. I am making this post to make this presentation available to educators, police, and parents to use to help people realize the danger of this deadly activity. My sole purpose of putting this together was to help the kids. I am asking anyone who reads this to help me by sharing this information. Thank you for your help. 

Scott Metheny 

 
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December 25, 2005, 6:05 pm PST

Bleeding heart......

Quote From: joycelan

It is a sad day when an adult will belittle out youths.  by the way, were you a youth once? 

Yes, I was a youth once...and I wasn't dumb enough to try anything this STUPID!! 

I guess you are one of the BLEEDING HEARTS that BABY children. 

I was brought up knowing if I did something wrong, I was punished...and I DON'T mean by not using my personal cell phone, or not watching my TV programs......I was taught right from wrong by getting a good swift foot in my ASS..and, trust me,...you LEARN!!!! I turned out OK and I actually thank my parents for this. I've seen kids I grew up with, who WERE "babied" during their childhood, and most of them have done PRISON TIME!!  

WAKE UP!!! 

I blame this crap on PARENTS that keep themselves UNAWARE of their children's behavior by thinking..."gee, they are good kids...I'm sure they know better" 

 
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December 26, 2005, 10:49 am PST

Giving due credit

I'm in several online support groups for parents who lost a kid to asphyxiation play. I am honored to count Sarah Pacatte and many other moms and dads fighting to get this deadly game in the media, as my friends. Sarah, you're phenomenol. After your son died you cried out so loudly to the media so relentlessly that your voice and Gabe's voice was finally heard. And so many other parents this past summer and fall have followed in your footsteps after their children also died. As Sarah knows I tried after my 14 year son died from this in 1999. I wrote several times to Dr. Phil and Oprah and other talk shows, about my son's death and the fact that so many kids were dying this way, and I was ignored. I begged them to do a show so other kids wouldnt die this way. Finally after the AP and Dateline and Paula Zahn and Fox were airing shows on the Choking Game, and reporters were after Sarah and others to get this in their newscasts, Dr. Phil and Oprah were interested. I am grateful they finally were as they have a vast audience, but so frustrated all these years as other kids, boys and girls continued to die. So Sarah, what you have achieved is powerful and Gabe would be so proud of you, fighting to save other kids and educationg parents so they know about his horrible deadly activity. And Scott, you know what I think of you, Mr. Awesome, you will forever be my hero. You jumped right in when you learned about this and never stopped. You know what's important, you have a beautiful heart. Thank you so much. ~Dianna Jason's mom 

 
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December 27, 2005, 2:28 am PST

Contact info

Quote From: awfulcute

Would it be possible for me to contact you? Could you provide your firm's e-mail address or phone number in Utah? 

email address is:  catherine@utahcriminallawyer.com
 
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December 27, 2005, 2:47 am PST

Criminal v. Civil

Quote From: liatsunami

 I agree you can't consent to being murdered, but this is a little different.   There is not garuntee by choking somone that they will die.   Now I can realistically see a charge for negligence of some kind.  That really surprises me that the guy in that case got convicted for murder because I was pretty sure about 3-6 years ago there was a case out west  a judge threw out because of  "assumption of risk" was a key factor.  But you would know better than me. I'm not a lawyer, YET.

Plus in the cases you are talking about it's adults, and juries probably assume adults should know better.   Can kids and teens really  weight the risks of their actions?To an extent yes, but not when their making a completely uninformed decision.  So to them thier assuming there is NO risk of death or injury.

It'd be interesting for me to see a case like this go to trial, and what happens.  I can see a lot of  opportunity to present a good and solid defense in situations like this.

I think you are confusing CRIMINAL law with CIVIL law.  Not only are there hundreds of thousands of criminal cases like this that have been sucessully prosecuted, a judge CANNOT throw out a CRIMINAL case based on a CIVIL  defense of "assumption of the risk."   All issues of fact are decided by a jury.  The role of a judge is to rule of issues of law i.e. objections, motions, admissibility of evidence, etc... 

Assumption of the risk defense in a CIVIL trial is known as Blame the Victim in a CRIMINAL trial and although it's been used for centuries in all types of criminal trials from rape to murder,  for the most part, juries just don't buy it 

 
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December 27, 2005, 11:27 am PST

Telling could mean doing it

I agree that you should tell teens about this trend and how dangerous it is, but wat i noticed with my friends who are 15,16,17,18  half of them who see it want to do it because it looks fun and they neer new how to do it. I think when showing things on tv like that you shouldnt tell how to do it. I mean i nevcer new how to do it, and i wanted to do it and i tryed. Most teens just dnt care about the conserquences and so ohh it wont happen to me or w.e. Even though theyll tell there parents its stupid and everything.
 
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December 27, 2005, 11:34 am PST

Not parents fault

OK, teens can hide evcerything from there parents. When becoming a teen i noticed that i got further away from my parents but could hide everything. It's not hard. Wat do u acpecvt my parents to follow me evcerywhere and stalk me. I cant believe you would say that were stupid and dum. Your saying sarahs son ios dum? i say 100% hes not dum or stupid, he probably new wat he wanted to be when he grew up and everything. But he didnt think it would happen to him. Stop making up so much lies and saying that everyone is like your family and everyone shou8ld get hit. Being hit never solves anything. So then your saying it does ok lets say my friend called me something or made me mad, so its ok to beat her up? no.. she wouldnt learn nothing.  

I am so sorrie sarah for all the people who say these kids are stupid and dum, and need to wake up. I understand wat ur son went through, and you cant do anything about it. Its not ur fault. Its not that the parents are blinded, its jsut teens hide everything. 

 
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December 28, 2005, 5:29 pm PST

Been there....

I'm a 23 year old mother now and have grown up a lot, but when I was a young teenager, my brother, friends and I used to do this also. We didn't have a name for it though, just passing out is what we called it. I think about that now and I can't believe how stupid it was. The "buzz" or "feeling" that you get when you wake up is almost addictive. We would do it up to 10 times in one night, one after the other. One night my brother had a friend over who was always playing pranks on people and we choked him out. His whole face turned blue and he didn't get up for a long time. We thought he was just joking and didn't pay any attention to him. He wasn't joking at all though. It was so long ago I can't remember what made him wake up or come to, I just know that it seemed like several minutes before he did. When he did wake, his eyes were bloodshot and he had a severe headache. We never did it again. This "game" is no joke and it will hurt or kill you. It cuts all oxygen off to your brain and kills several brain cells. Find a different hobby-play sports or something.
 
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