Topic : 09/28 Overmedicating America: The Cruise Controversy

I didn't write this. I was quoting another user and that i swhy certain parts of the statement are in red. I was explaining to her what bothered me in her post. Please click on the user name I replied to and it will allow you to find this orignal post. I think the name was stpgurl or something like that. 

Tammy 

Correction to my earlier post it was not stpgurl it was SLICKSIOUX .. not sure I spelled the name right 

You wrote "Until you experience what others have, don't assume you know what you are talking about either. " 

Maybe you should take your own advice? You seem to be putting the women of the world in the category of having a thyroid condition instead of actual PPD. Maybe you and a handful of others who are given meds for PPD don't actually need meds, but there are thousands of others who do. It's terrible that the meds had an adverse affect on you, but in comparison to how many women are helped by meds, your case was the exception, not the rule. Oh, and I believe the reports are that Andrea Yates had QUIT taking her meds when she drowned her 5 children...  

But you did say "Depression is something you can bring yourself out of. You have to have the will power and strength because I did it. Without meds I may add"  

In my opinion that was one-sided, based on your experience, and just saying that to a truly depressed person could mean the difference between finding help and just giving up. When I was going through a major depression, I felt worse about myself for not 'having the will' to pull out of it, which in turn worsened my symptoms, until I just didn't care anymore and wanted to die. Anyone out there reading this who may be depressed, please understand that it's not always something you have the will to pull out of without help. And I'm not saying meds are necessary, but at least make an appointment with a therapist to talk about why you're depressed.  

The diet I tried with my oldest (and yes, the whole household) consisted of eliminating refined sugars, dyes, MSG, preservatives, pesticides, etc... I did a lot of reading and researching, on the net, in health food stores, magazines, books, etc... It consisted of lots of fresh fruits and vegetables (organic or home grown when possible), fish (wild caught), nuts/seeds, whole grains, lean chicken, tofu... I enjoyed it, but I couldn't get either of my kids to eat much, if anything. And that was always a problem that was out of my control when they spent a big part of their waking day away from home. When they were little and in daycare the majority of the kids wouldn't eat healthy  - maybe an apple if it was peeled and sliced - so my kids were the minority, and the majority ruled. Then when they started school, I could send them with a healthy lunch, but they had access to the garbage the other kids were eating, and they chose to eat the garbage. My youngest still sticks to better choices, like fresh fruits and vegetables and whole grains, but she also gives in to the temptation of the cookie or high fructose corn syrupy 'fruit' snack that is passed out in the classroom for a birthday snack. The oldest, now 17 and earning her own money eats as much junk as she can. Her opinion of 'eating healthy' is a bowl full of lettuce with shredded cheese, croutons and ranch dressing. She has a very addictive personality, she's been through residential alcohol/drug rehab twice, and even there, the diet consisted of processed foods with refined sugar, dyes and preservatives because that's what the kids would eat. The only thing they eliminated from their diet was caffeine. She is the reason I say that a person who has impulsive and obsessive tendencies isn't likely to stick to a particular diet. She doesn't comprehend 'eating healthy would be to my benefit', and especially with oppositional defiance, anyone who would step in and try to take over her diet would have a fight on their hands. In order to understand that, you just may have to experience living with a kid affected by ADHD, ODD and Bipolar. I literally had to learn to speak a new language to get through to her because telling her 'no' is like challenging her to do so because of the way her brain works. I tried the diet before the meds, but it became obvious that the meds were and are necessary for her conditions once she started taking them and found relief from the constant anguish she was experiencing without them.  

I also want to point out that as good as it may be for people to eat organically, there are obstacles that make it impossible for many. For me, it was difficult to find organic foods in Michigan (though there is more of a selection in local stores currently), and when I did, these foods were very expensive... As a widow/single mother I couldn't afford to feed my family organic food every day. I still stick to fresh foods and whole grains, but where I'm from it's almost impossible for the average person to eliminate all toxins from their diet.   

I don't understand why people are saying there are no such things as chemical imbalances.  Certainly, we know that Parkinson's Disease is due to a lack of Dopamine (the inability to make it) because the area of the brain that makes Dopamine is almost non-existent in Parkinson's Disease when you look at it at autopsy.  We know that their symptoms improve by replacing the Dopamine with medications.  Yes, these medications have side effects, as do ALL medications.  And the decision to take them must be a consideration of risks versus benefits.   

We don't actually "measure" insulin in people, either, but we know there is a deficiency in diabetics because we look at their symptoms and test for the effects of insulin (blood sugar), and we know they improve when you give them insulin.  A lot of medical science is not based on actual measurement of deficiencies, because there is a limit to what our tests can do, but by making reasonable inferences of cause and effect with medication trials. 

So, if we know there can be a deficiency in neurotransmitters (like Dopamine) in certain patients, why is it hard to infer that there could be deficiencies in other neurotransmitters as well....deficiencies that cause depression and other psychiatric conditions?  We are still learning about depression. ( And we are behind in that research because it is so much more prevalent in women than men, that doctors for many years just thought it was just "crazy women" acting out and they didn't take it seriously.  We were supposed to "snap" out of it.  A little "deja vue", Tom Cruise?) 

If a doctor diagnoses depression, prescribes a certain medication and it works, then there is at least some evidence that it had balanced the very neurotransmitters that the medication affects.  There are going to be side effects, yes, and if the side effects are worse than the original problem, then you need to decide if it's worth it.  Personally, I deal with depression.  Taking anti-depressants got the suicide thoughts out of my head and gave my children a mother again and my husband a happy wife.  Without the medication, I COULDN'T exercise or eat right.  Now that I'm exercising and eating right, I only need a small dose of the medication.  Without the meds, I would be dead. 

I don't know why people in our society are so extreme.  There are very few things in life that are "never" or "always".  Are we overmedicating America?  Yes.  Are there instances where medication can be life-saving?  Yes.  I'm happy to even be here to read the posts about why I shouldn't take medication.  Ironic, huh? 

Tom Cruise said to Matt Lauer "You don't know the history of psychiatry.  I do."  Well, he doesn't know what it's like to have post-partum depression.  I do.  I guess that makes my opinion just as valid as his.  And remember, people, his knowledge of psychiatry is that which is taught in the writings of L. Ron Hubbard.  The creator of Scientology, the man who said psychiatry is evil, who criticized taking any medication, died with large amounts of anti-psychotics in his body.  Go figure. 

Thank you SO much for responding to my request for actual proof/references regarding this controvery.  It it seems like no one else has any back up to their claims??  I read your other messages and they have been very helpful.  I havent gotten to the websites yet, but I am looking forward to reading through them.  I will keep in touch, THANKS!!!! 

Actually, experts who research Postpartum Thyroiditis estimate that between 7 and 15% of women get it. I think that number accounts for about half as many women as those who are affected by any degree of baby blues or PPD. This is a highly underresearched area. 

As for Andrea Yates, I would love to see the report you are talking about that claims she was not taking her meds at the time. Are you questioning the underlying issue of whether or not drugs can cause psychosis? If you are, then why do you say that it's terrible they had an adverse effect on me? It sounds like you're not being consistent. 

People like to claim that others who have committed violent acts off of their meds couldn't have done it because of the meds. Do you know how long it takes for a full withrdawal and recovery? When the medication builds up in your system to a therapeutic level, especially at higher doses, it can take as little as two weeks or as many as several months for withdrawal effects to surface. Withdrawal is not the same as an underlying condition, it's a severe reaction to being deprived of a FOREIGN substance. 

Eric Harris of the Columbine killings had a therapeutic dose of Luvox (I think that is the name of the drug he had been taking) in his system at the time of death. Some people claim that he had stopped taking his meds & they aren't to blame. 

But people also dismiss the severity of symptoms caused by withdrawal from a drug. The symptoms are often similar to or worse than the symptoms that caused the person to get the prescription in the first place. Many people experience terrible "side effects" (or main effects) on drugs every time they start or increase a dose of a medication. The withdrawal can be much worse than the dose adjustment symptoms. But for me, once I was finished with the withdrawal period, I felt better than ever. 

It's unfortunate that you really don't seem to care about the people who suffer on the drugs. 

A serious look at the data (hidden by drug companies, never published, covered up by the FDA, stuck in a file drawer and only recovered through the freedom of information act in trial preparation) will show much higher incidences of "side effects" than people are led to believe. 

For instance, Prozac was originally tested in clinical trials with benzodiazepines in conjnction with the "primary" medication, but this was not reported. The FDA and Ely Lilly covered this up. So all the people who become manic or psychotic on SSRIs should be given benzodiazepines in order to achieve similar effects as those in the clinical trials. 

You make a lot of assumptions and buy in to the drug company schemes. This is not about preventing women from having drugs, this is about allowing those adveresly affected by the drugs to have a voice and not be swept under the rug. You assume there are a handful of us. You completely trust doctors to tell you the truth, when the only truth they know is whatever their pharmaceutical sales rep has told them. 

Why do you think that with so many lawsuits going on against the drug companies, you never hear about them? Why do you think there is so much ignorance on the widespread negative effects of drugs? Because the drug companies settle these cases OUT OF COURT and make secret agreements with the families for silence in exchange for large sums of money. 

Prozac originally was supposed to carry the "depression" side effect on its label in 1986, but that was scratched off at the last minute by a high-up exec, with no explanation. Dr. Phil showed the common side effects of drugs on his show last week. Depression was listed as one of the common ones. 

It really baffles me why a layperson would be so unsympathetic to another. Are you really here because you care about people who have illness, or are you just here to defend drugs? It's not the drugs or the drug companies who are important, it's receiving proper medical treatment, therapy, and finding the best route towards recovery that is important. I would never wish PPD on anyone or tell any woman not to take a drug. I just want women to know that if they get worse on a med, consider getting off of it. If someone had told me the facts about Zoloft before I took it, I wouldn't even be on this board.  

Crap flows down. It flows from drug companies to doctors and then down onto the patients. When a patient then tries to spread news of the crap around to society, does society care? It seems you don't. You just want to pour it right back on the injured person. 

It's almost worse to try to tell others about this and get people responding with messages like yours, which are extremely insensitive and patronizing, then it is to just keep your mouth shut and let everyone else in the world deal with their own drug-induced misery with no way out. 

But I will continue posting, because if it weren't for people making news about this same experience, I never would have questioned the drugs, and I would never have gotten better. Perhaps I would be in a mental hospital now if I didn't ever get to hear the truth. 

I totally resent you for your comments. 

I have 3 sons,  ages 18 months, 7 years old, and 9 years old.  My 7-year-old acts a lot like the child of the divorced mother on the show.  My son has a nasty temper and needs to learn to control himself.  I don't think he has anything like ADHD, I think he needs to learn to control his behavior.  He behaves himself in school, therefore I know he can do it.  However, if it were a problem 24/7, that would be different.  If he had a problem behaving in school as well, I would begin to think there may be a possible underlying physical/neurological cause. 

I think we need to also accept that boys are going to be more active, and schools are not built to suit their needs.  It is difficult for a normal active boy to sit all day in a chair, and our school now has this ridiculous policy that if you aren't done with your work, you lose your recess, which is a break any child needs, even those less physically active.  

 I also want to add that I am on Paxil for postpartum depression and anxiety from each of my births, so I know that medication is sometimes necessary.  I am not going to expect my family to live with my moodiness and obsessive-compulsive behaviors, it isn't fair to them or to myself.   It took over a year after the birth of my second child to find the right medication for me.  

 have gone off Paxil twice, and it is very difficult to go off of, but it can be done with the support of a doctor and using other medications such as Prozac temporarily while withdrawing from the Paxil.  I completely support Brooke Shields in her actions, she has done what is best for herself and her family.  I would love to see a debate between Dr. Phil and this apparently manic person known as Tom Cruise.