Topic : Should We Teach Creation or Evolution in Our Schools?

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Created on : Thursday, September 29, 2005, 01:28:03 am
Author : catskat3

There has been an awful lot of debate and down right arguing about what to teach our kids in school regarding how we got here and why are we here?  Is there a plan for mankind developed by an "all mighty" being?  Or did we climb up out of the sludge one day, drop off our fins and start swinging from the trees?  Scholars and every day Joes have discussed this issue over the centuries and we're no closer to agreeing on it now than we were hundreds of years ago.  Despite all of our vast knowledge and technology the science of the subject still can't be truly proven and the debate continues on and on and probably will continue long after all of us here today are dust in the earth.

 

So I'd like to open this debate with my own opinion on the matter and then want to sit back and read and enjoy just how you all feel about this issue.  So here's my two cents worth, now join me with yours.

 

I am by my own admission a Christian woman trying to live a good life and follow the scriptures, love my neighbors (a task which can be quite challenging at times) and basically live by the example of Christ's life.  Even with all my bible learning, however, every once in a while a thought creeps into my consciousness that taunts me and gives me pause to reflect. At times, it seems science gives me an explanation clear as day that I can not refute and saying that God can do anything he wants to do just sounds like a cop out.

 

I believe that, in fact, you must teach both and here is why.  The reasoning is actually quite simple.  This is a debate not actually about religion or science.  It is about differing philosophies on the subject of our existance.  Viewing it in this manner, you remove the right or wrong of either side.  So now that being said the issue becomes not whether or not to teach it, but WHEN to teach it.  This is where people disagree strongly and it is understandable.  Now that we have defined the issue as one of philosophy, it again, beomes easy to resolve.

 

Children in elementary, middle and high school are not ready for such deep, heavy subject matter.  Further, the younger children believe everything their teachers teach them.  After all, in their eyes, the teachers are like gods.  They know all, they can't lie to them and they don't make mistakes.  So if a teacher tells the students something, well, it just has to be true and that's that.  It isn't until later, as their minds develop more complex reasoning skills, that they will start to question what they're being taught and challenge the lessons given.

 

As Dr. Phil and others have told us, and we know Dr. Phil is always right (cough), timing is everything when it comes to handling issues with our kids.  I think that teaching this subject is best left to college aged students.  They have the reasoning skills and vocal ability to express their feelings on subject matter.

 

So this is my opinion.  Yes teach evolution, and yes teach creation.  Just do it when the student is capable of discerning for himj/herself what they wish to believe and what they decide is against what they believe on their own.




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April 20, 2006, 1:07 am PDT

Should We Teach Creation or Evolution in Our Schools?

Quote From: jettav

I have pretty much voiced my opinion on this subject but I did want to point out that even Darwin, on his death bed, realized that he was wrong.........
No he did not. Where are you getting your information please? Can you site it? I have read 2 biographies on Darwin...have you?

 

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April 20, 2006, 1:13 am PDT

Should We Teach Creation or Evolution in Our Schools?

If anyone is up for a really deep indepth debate about this topic I will go for it. I've been studying evolution on my own for almost 2 years now. I own 20-30 books on the topic.  If anyone wants to get into evolution vs creationism one on one I'll do it here or though email.

But I want to state, I was a christian creationist 2 years ago. I started to study evolution to get better at debating AGAINST evolution. I couldn't ignore the facts has hard as I tried....and I tried. I did mental gymnastics you wouldn't believe to try to get myself to believe that evolution was a  lie.

I stopped fooling myself, got out of my comfort zone and I dared explore and try to understand something that scared me.

Now I am SURE of my thoughts and beliefs. Now I have real confidence because my thoughts are based on reason and facts.

Christianity and evolution don't have to fight with each other completely.

I suggest "Finding Darwins God" By Ken Miller. It's a great book that discusses religion and evolution.

But please, have facts before talking.
 

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April 20, 2006, 1:20 am PDT

Should We Teach Creation or Evolution in Our Schools?

(Last message for now, sorry)

I also have a question...why should creationism get as much weight as evolution? There is no, and repeat NO facts for creationism. Yet, for some reason, in people's minds, it should get as much a say as evolution.

Astrology has as much "fact" as creationism, should we teach that?

I always ask christians to step into someone elses shoes for a moment and imagine, what if you lived in a community with mostly Scientologists, do you think we should teach that 75 million years ago, there was an alien galactic ruler named Xenu who was in charge of 76 planets in our part of the galaxy, including our own planet Earth, whose name at that time was Teegeeack?

It has as much fact as creationism right? Shouldn't your children learn about this too? I mean, hell, isn't creationism a "theory" just like scientology?

Or maybe, in SCIENCE class we should just teach SCIENCE....leave the religious stuff up to church and home.
 
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April 20, 2006, 4:19 pm PDT

Hey Purple....

Quote From: purplepain

No he did not. Where are you getting your information please? Can you site it? I have read 2 biographies on Darwin...have you?

I actually posted something on Darwin here, I think it's a page or two over.....and it said that he didn't say he was wrong.  Please check it out and let me know what you think.   

  

I think it is very rare for someone to actually look into the history of this world and it's people and I am glad to see another on this board.  I too like to know as much as I can about things.  Too many times people just beleive things because people tell them what to beleive, instead of actually finding it out for themselves.  Good for you! 

  

Take care 

  

Elffie 

 

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April 20, 2006, 4:30 pm PDT

Should We Teach Creation or Evolution in Our Schools?

Quote From: elffie

I actually posted something on Darwin here, I think it's a page or two over.....and it said that he didn't say he was wrong.  Please check it out and let me know what you think.   

  

I think it is very rare for someone to actually look into the history of this world and it's people and I am glad to see another on this board.  I too like to know as much as I can about things.  Too many times people just beleive things because people tell them what to beleive, instead of actually finding it out for themselves.  Good for you! 

  

Take care 

  

Elffie 

I believe that 95% of people stay  the religion they were born into.

I think that is very telling. VERY telling. People *think* they think, but they don't really. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I work very very hard at keeping my mind open, but not too open and I try to remain skeptical, but not nihilistic.

It's not easy, it's hard to find that balance and I find myself struggling with it all the time. But I do take pride in my thought process and how I filter or don't filter information.

I honestly want everyone to feel the mental freedom I now feel.


 

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April 20, 2006, 4:44 pm PDT

Should We Teach Creation or Evolution in Our Schools?

Quote From: elffie

I've read posts on here about Darwin and thought this would be of interest to some.  I thought it was interesting and some of you may as well.... 

 

 

It is a week before the anniversary of Darwin's death in 1882, but I am prompted to post this a bit early in response to a peculiar question. "Just read Carl Zimmers Evolution, a triumph of an idea. In it he states that Darwin , on his death bed cried out to god? How could this be if he had denounced religion and god?" 

It's quite true that Zimmer does briefly mention the death of Darwin: 

...Emma caught him in her arms when he collapsed at Down House. For the next six weeks she cared for him as he cried out to God and coughed up blood and slipped into unconsciousness. On April 19, 1882, he was dead.

The question is very peculiar because it's as if this person had read that one paragraph about his death, and nothing before it. The page and a half before that was all about Darwin's religion, and no, he had not denounced religion. He had renounced Christianity, but on the existence of god he declared himself an agnostic. He refused to write publicly on the subject of religion, and was even reluctant to discuss it in his letters. As we still do today, he pointed out that scientists who believed in evolution could also be devout Christians, mentioning Asa Gray in particular. And most importantly, he kept his doubts quiet out of respect for his wife, who was strongly Christian. When he cried out to God, it was the simple response of a man in great pain, who had been brought up in the Church of England, who had trained to be a parson, and had lived his life in the company of religious men and women with whom he had only affection. Creationists who insist that Darwin had to be a radical atheist who sought to destroy religion are just falsely demonizing the man. 

Thank you for posting that!

BTW, that book by Carl Zimmers is a GREAT book! My husband and I have been having a hard time find it for some reason.

This is an excellent point: When he cried out to God, it was the simple response of a man in great pain, who had been brought up in the Church of England, who had trained to be a parson

For example. I was a christian. I am not any longer. I do not see Christ as divine. I do however still have a feeling of loyalty towards Christ. Now religious people would grab this idea and say "HEY! That is the spirit telling you...."

This is false because I am sure people of other religions who have left have the same feelings of loyalty and abandonment that I feel (that feeling lessens as time goes by) towards the gods and figure heads of that religion.

It's about losing a "relationship" with something that has been ingrained in me since birth. A sharper version of a child finding out there is no Santa.

Darwin was not a radical atheist in the least....he just couldn't ignore what he saw with his own eyes. Neither could I.
 
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April 20, 2006, 4:48 pm PDT

Not me...

Quote From: purplepain

I believe that 95% of people stay  the religion they were born into.

I think that is very telling. VERY telling. People *think* they think, but they don't really. I'm not saying I'm perfect, but I work very very hard at keeping my mind open, but not too open and I try to remain skeptical, but not nihilistic.

It's not easy, it's hard to find that balance and I find myself struggling with it all the time. But I do take pride in my thought process and how I filter or don't filter information.

I honestly want everyone to feel the mental freedom I now feel.


95%?  Possibly.  I am not one of the 95%.  Brief history: 

Father: Catholic 

Mother: Baptist 

Myself: Pagan 

  

While growing up I was quite skeptical of what people were telling me and for some reason, I couldn't justify them.  It just didn't seem to make sense.   Keep in mind that neither of my parents were avid church goers, but I did attend a few times.  And once my parents were married my mother converted to Catholic.  I just wanted to find something where women are equal with men.  Good thing I did. 

  

I guess that's what is great about this country, we can beleive, or not beleive, whatever we want.  If only people would be more understanding..... 

 

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April 20, 2006, 4:57 pm PDT

Should We Teach Creation or Evolution in Our Schools?

Quote From: elffie

95%?  Possibly.  I am not one of the 95%.  Brief history: 

Father: Catholic 

Mother: Baptist 

Myself: Pagan 

  

While growing up I was quite skeptical of what people were telling me and for some reason, I couldn't justify them.  It just didn't seem to make sense.   Keep in mind that neither of my parents were avid church goers, but I did attend a few times.  And once my parents were married my mother converted to Catholic.  I just wanted to find something where women are equal with men.  Good thing I did. 

  

I guess that's what is great about this country, we can beleive, or not beleive, whatever we want.  If only people would be more understanding..... 

That number actually might be high now that I think of it. I was thinking of something else. I  think it's more like 85%...

See? I am still learning not to speak until I know. I work hard at it and I still fail sometimes.

I will find out that number for sure with a link or some kind of reference.

And you're right, that is what is great about this country, we just have to work to protect that greatness.
 
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May 1, 2006, 10:46 am PDT

Has anyone thought...

that since creationism is overtly based in religion -  That there are more then just one religion in the word with its idea/teachings of the beginings of mankind.  - would this country be ready to have ALL veiws and teachings of "Creation" of man be taught in the schools.  Think about it. If you let one religion in you HAVE TO allow all the others in as well.  It is a simple blanket of society that so many what to live by unless it goes against the life they life and believe we should all live.  In college I studied a small amount upon the creation teachings of several native American Tribes ( found them highly interresting and enjoyable).    

I have found that most people who are for creationism being taught in schools are forthe Christian teaching yet not the Hindu's, Jewish, Muslim, Cherokee, Budist, etc. teaching of Creation of Man.    

Funny thing is these teachings are in shools today. Colleges and Universities.  Strange when one can learn so much more from such upper classes that some are so frighten of teachings in the lower classes.  

I learned in school Christopher Columbus Discovered the Americas..... Then I Learned later that he never set foot on the Americas... then later still I learn more about the man, his travels and his dealings with the island natives.  Each teachings came in a time in my life when I was old enough to understand that History changes with the time flow and that information and knowledge needs to grow with my education.  AS I grew so did my understandings and ablity to understand the differences of life teaching as well as spiritual teachings.  In some respects I think this debate is based in the fear that some parents worry that thier child will not have the good sense to understand religion teachings and turn away.  

Part of life is understanding that there is reality of the physical being (science) and the faith of Spiritual inlightenment.  Part of spiritual inlightenment means "to believe" or "to have faith".  On day I question my mother about the darwin theory and creation her reponse was that God doesn't want to prove creation only that you believe.     

FYI I believe in Darwinism as well as my Faith in my Spiritual beliefs.  This is due to my search of truth of understanding in college and beyond.  Still I strongly believe you can't teach Creationism in schools unless you teach all beliefs of creation.  That is a can of worms no one wants to open.  

 

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July 15, 2006, 11:43 am PDT

Should We Teach Creation or Evolution in Our Schools?

Well..Kent Hovind has been arrested for tax fraud.  LOL
 

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