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Topic : 08/24 The Family Cult

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Created on : Friday, September 30, 2005, 03:30:22 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/03/05) Imagine growing up in a cult where you are forced to have sex with strangers -- when you’re as young as 5. Dr. Phil talks to people who escaped the group known as the Children of God, and need help moving on. Meet a daughter who says she can’t forgive her father for the years of painful abuse she suffered at the hands of this cult. How can she reconnect with her dad and start trusting again? Plus, China and her husband, John, are building a new life after leaving the group, where they were forced to have sex with strangers when they were both underage. They’ve had a difficult time adjusting to the outside world, and China wonders if she should prosecute her parents for abuse. What does Dr. Phil think? Talk about the show here.

 

Find out what happened on the show.

 

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October 26, 2005, 7:20 am PDT

I don't need to come and see-you are enough

Quote From: comeandsee

Hello all!  I've just read every post on this site, and I wish I could put my arms around everyone who is suffering, and give you a big hug, and that saying "Sorry" could fix it.  That can't be, but I promise you my prayers. 

  

I doubt there are many neutral souls left, after 20 pages of this debate!  But to the undecided & truth-seekers, let me tell you a bit about the The Family International of 2005.  I speak as a member for well over 30 years.  My father was a Protestant preacher.  As a High School valedictorian, politically alert, and with eyes wide open, I joined the "Children of God", impressed by their missionary dedication.  Their zeal looked a lot like what I was reading about in my New Testament, but not seeing in any church I attended.

  

 

As a group, we were radical & we were crazy---that's what it took to turn on a dropped-out drugged-out hippie generation to Christianity.  Our uncompromising anti-Establishment, anti-war, anti-zombie higher education, anti-Churchianity views made news, endeared us to many of the youth, and earned us some pretty hefty enemies in just about every sphere of society.  (But with a surprising number of patient parents, who admired our goals, and recognized we'd found real fulfillment.---Who in turn organized themselves into a support group, "Thank COG".)  Still, we were soon being labeled religious fascists by some, communist subversives by others, & a brainwashing cult by others. 

  

 

Some of this was surely brought on by our own foibles & inexperienced young leadership, full of zeal, lacking wisdom.  (---and definitely NOT under David Berg's control, ha, as some suggest.)  On the other hand, when people just plain don't like your message, or don't really understand you, it's amazing what kind of things they'll accuse you of, and actually believe. 

  

 

But we've learned as we've grown.  We started off as a group of largely teens & 20-somethings.  Then we began to have our own little families.  In our joy & enthusiasm, we felt that all our kids would "of course" want to follow in our footsteps.  But lo & behold, somehow they "grew up", and were faced with some of the same choices WE were as teens.—whether to give their life to God in some capacity, or move on to another lifestyle.  In our idealism, in some cases, we hadn't given them enough practical training to smoothly make the move to the "big bad world".  But that was not across the board by any means. Meanwhile, even in those cases, they often could speak a few different languages & had a good work ethic, were clean & honest.  (And may I add, no cavities, nor brain cells full of 1000's of hours of inane TV commercials, obscene cartoons, & senseless violence).  Not to speak of those youth who had developed & honed artistic gifts, musical, computer skills, handymen, etc. while in the group. 

  

Several of my own children are no longer in the Family.  Their initial transition was not smooth, but having "learned how to learn" at an early age, they soon surpassed their peers in public school.  One of my daughters just came out in the top 3 in her university exams, over hundreds of other students.  She is guaranteed a lifetime job as an educator, and is now teaching at a prestigious European High School.  Another daughter was top in her city's ballet/dance courses, and was offered entrance to a well-known academy in Paris.  A son put himself through cooking school & became an in-demand chef in another European capital.  Meanwhile, another daughter has continued her missionary work with the Family year upon year in some of the poorest countries in Africa, along with her husband & 4 bright, intelligent, home-schooled little kids---my grandkids, of whom I'm very proud. 

  

For the newbies here, the Family International is not an obscure secret cult.  Our work has been well documented by sociologists & academics for decades.  The media has had a great time, too, inevitably picking out anything sensational they could find about the group.  And admittedly, there's been plenty.  We are not your average Sunday-social church on the corner.   

  

In our earlier years, we were small and---not surprisingly---persecuted.   Of course, that was also exciting to us young folks, and it did result in a certain amount of "secrecy", or shall we say, caution.  This was not due to any wrongdoing or sense of guilt, but rather because much of our preachments were against the evils of the "System", the rich & influential members of which had the ability to wipe us out if they wished. 

  

Later, more & more of our "controversial" beliefs (read: anything that Billy Graham wouldn't preach) began to be publicized in the media.  And we began to accept this & get more comfortable with it.  And importantly, we realized that throwing the doors open on our beliefs & Homes was the best thing we could do.  Nothing to hide & everything to offer.  ---A cooperative lifestyle that works, and produces some pretty wonderful & amazing young people in the process. 

  

If that wasn't enough, now just about anything ever published within the Children of God/Family is now available on the Internet. ---Especially with the help of folks like "drcoosa" here on the website, who apparently has more time to read our Family publications than I do.  He somehow hijacks this copyrighted Family material & publishes it without authorization.  In fact, he pours over 30 years of publications, keeping a concordance of every "inflammatory" quote he can find.  His special faculty, like one of the X-Men, is to then interject these tidbits into a discussion in the most negative & odious light possible.   (Ha, ha, sorry to flame you there----you are a great debater, I grant.) 

  

I am not defending those who committed abuses.  There are sincere individuals who were hurt, obviously; and that is being well-covered in this forum.  I believe some of them would be happy if the individual who mistreated them was brought to justice. 

  

However, I must point out to our public that there is a deeper, darker, more far-reaching agenda here.   It is not to make reparation & heal hurts of the past, but rather to demonize & bring down one of the most positive & fruitful missionary fellowships of our present day.   From a Christian perspective----excuse me for those of you who don't know Jesus at this time---the people who are pushing this larger, more sinister agenda, have little care for God, for the sharing of Jesus' love with millions of hungry souls every year, for the bringing of encouragement & support to the needy in 100 countries around the world, with both tangible aide, as well as the intangible---satisfying that most basic human need for happiness. Not to speak of these folks wishing to terminate an unquestionably fulfilling way of life for thousands of missionaries & their families---now into three generations.  No, at whatever the cost to the millions, the whole group must be brought down & disbanded to appease the few.  I don't believe this is what China wants.  China knows that abuse in any form is non-existent in the Family today, and that's why she was confident to bring her little son & leave him in our care, while she took care of other timely business 2 years ago (I say this by way of confirmation of  the earlier post on that subject).   

  

I promise you, David Berg & Maria were/are NOT pedophiles.  Some folks here are painting a very perverse picture of two of the most loving, sacrificial, dedicated Christians you could possibly meet.  Radical? Yes.  Controversial?  Absolutely.   Weirdos?  Nope.  Dangerous?  Never. 

  

(Sorry, I wasn't going to get into specifics, but I've just got to address this anti-Semite question.   David Berg was Jewish by descent, as is a certain percentage of the Family overall.  His anger at the "Jews", as brought out in "drcoosa's" favorite quote from an emotional prayer, was as I recall specifically regarding Israeli mistreatment of the Palestinians.  With that stance, in a democratic world poll today, Berg would find himself in a very comfortable majority.  In spite of his outburst of that moment, did Family members---who you claim were under his "control"---all pick up guns & join Hamas?  [BEEP—master say...hate Jew---BEEP---must kill----BEEP...  Ha, ha, ha, give me a break!  Members understood & took it in perspective & so did you if you were here.   Did you go buy a gun?  Book your ticket to Jerusalem?  Come on!  Berg's comment was no more vehement in spirit than Jesus' own proclamation, "Ye are of your father the devil!" in John chapter 8.  Did Jesus teach or incite his personal 12 disciples to hatred & violence by thus saying, or by whipping the merchants out of the temple?  You know the answer.  (No.)  So quit plucking these quotes out of context & trying, like some kind of KKK wizard, to rally a lynch mob against the Family.  Some folks might actually believe you.  Talk about intolerance, Inquisition, Scarlet Letter, demagoguery, etc.----woh, YOU sound dangerous.  Everyone acquainted with the Family today is impressed by the impartial love they extend to people of all races & social status.  As all Christians should, we oppose what we consider wrongs in society, but this does not overrule love for individuals. ) 

  

Someone earlier mentioned why not try a "sting operation" against the Family.  Well, they've "been there, done that"!  In the early 90's, antagonists duped officials in several countries to "rescue" hundreds of Family children, through violent police raids.  Accusation: "child abuse".  Never mind that extensive medical & psychological tests turned up not one case of abuse amongst the approx. 700 children taken from their parents.   That's OK—the accusers weren't expecting to find abuse, as they knew there was none occurring.  It was just an excuse to try & pull down the Family.   All children were returned to their parents, and in some cases, damages awarded to Family members. 

  

I read all the same literature & lived in the Homes in the period of the alleged abuse.  It never crossed my mind to have sex with a little kid, nor to allow my kids to be abused by others.  "Abuse" was never a Family "policy", much less an institutionalized practice, nor will it ever be.  I know there WERE cases, and I don't wish to distress those folks as I say the following:   Although as the British Judge pointed out, there was an overly-sexualized atmosphere in the Family, the depiction of abuse, (not only sexual, but of child-labor, extreme punishment, etc.), is just not an accurate picture of the overall Family---not in any year you choose.  Home videos *, family photo albums, & honest media coverage from the past will bear out again & again, year after year, that our Homes were filled with happy, smiling, loving individuals.  (*  Re: Home videos:  You will of course trot out the example of the notorious "dance" videos, or "nudie cutie" pictures.  Those were circulated for a limited amount of time, then withdrawn.  For the record, they were neither violent, ugly, nor perverse.---Unlike your favorite primetime TV shows.  Indeed people from some cultures would see them & wonder what's the big deal.  Anyway, no Family member has seen any of that for about 20 years.  But I don't doubt that the hypocrites---who committed felonies in order to steal some of that material from locked storage to "use against" the Family---have been "enjoying" them in private ever since.) 

  

A young man left our fellowship a while back.  We're still friends, and he's now a successful businessman.  He confided, "I supported those folks (an anti-Family site) for a while after I left.  But I soon recognized they were 'losers' & 'complainers'."  (end of quote)  Please get my drift here, I am NOT saying anyone who chooses to leave the Family is a loser---not by a long-shot!  Indeed, many folks who leave soon find themselves favored for their positive attitudes, humility, solution-oriented thinking, ability to build a consensus, to communicate & to handle people, and how to teamwork—simply due to the fact that those are all necessary attributes to live our cooperative missionary lifestyle.   

  

But I am mentioning this because it is a trend of our time---which any "psychologist" should be able to identify---that people will try to blame their problems on anything they can.---They will sue the Army, their employer, their church, their parents, their school---you name it.  Their woes are anybody's fault but their own.    

  

Unfortunately in this respect, Dr. Phil may be as duped by the media as everyone else.  By the way, Dr. Phil (greetings), your site invited responses from people who feel they've been the subject of rumors, slander, etc.   But what recourse is there when your show is the perpetrator?  Where do we go from here?  The Supreme Court? Ha.  Please get your researchers to dig a little deeper next time---not just scrape off the surface scum you find in a quick internet search.   Why don't you get some of those employees out the door & to talk to some actual missionaries, people who are walking the walk;  or at least talk to the academics who have studied us & documented our lifestyle for years.  Better yet, why don't you have a talk with some of our folks, young & old?  But please don't ask us to show up in a kangaroo court there, where the deck has been stacked & showbiz/therapy needs to bring in big network bucks.   Meet us out on the street or during one of our volunteer activities, or come over for dinner.  (But no paparazzi.)  Warning:  You may be UNDERwhelmed by the lack of sexual atmosphere.  On the other hand, you may be impressed by the poise, spontaneity, dedication & maturity of our young people, and the sincerity & lack of guile of all.  Have an open-minded talk & make your own judgment.  Please don't be found to be unwittingly aiding & abetting a moral "crime" here, lured to carry someone else's unchecked baggage onboard a national TV show---a device wrapped in reasonable & truly pitiful cries for justice & closure from victims of abuse, but designed by others to hide a much more deadly payload of genuine religious persecution & the destruction of a valid & beneficial missionary movement. 

  

I feel a little bad, because after I submit this message, I'm going to leave the forum & not come back.  I'm way too busy as a missionary to continue this.  But since I paid my dues & read everything up until here, I just thought I'd leave my 2-cents with the public.  I will miss the sparks flying from responses to my post & my words probably being picked apart & regurgitated in the most twisted ways.  Some of our older detractors (hi guys) have become very professional at this, and can find you something evil in an Easter lily. 

  

I might add that most of our Members probably didn't see the show.  Many of them work in poor countries far from Paramount Studios.  They won't be writing in to this site.  Their sleeves are rolled-up, and they're having a life---one that resembles Mother Teresa's more than Hugh Hefner's, despite what our detractors would have you think.  It's a sacrificial life, and we (parents) have understood better now for the last 10 -15 years that not everyone wants to live it.  It took us a while to let go, and like doctors wanting their kids to be doctors, give them more space.  Now in our young people's training we not only emphasize life skills & attitudes that will be useful whether in or out of the group, but we do what we can to assist those who wish to go & pursue secular vocations.  And we continue to support them with our unconditional love & prayers.  (Thus, the rate of folks---both young & old----returning to resume missionary service in the Family after months or years of other pursuits has increased.  That doesn't tend to validate the image of an abusive cult that people are struggling at every opportunity to "escape", ha.) Meanwhile, those who have stayed & devoted themselves to missionary work are generally VERY fulfilled & happy.  If you want challenge, variety, excitement, to live for a cause, and to make your mark in a needy world---the Family International 2005 rocks! 

  

Well, I'd love to rebut all the mistruths, misrepresentations, and outright lies I've read on this forum.  But maybe there's no need:   Just "come & see".  Or contact the group via the Family website.  The difference between what you will find & what some of these detractors here are claiming will be so vast that you will be tempted to believe it's a sham.  But hang in there, it's as good as it looks.   We're not perfect, but we have got the goods, we have the lifestyle, we have the joy, we have the love of God.  "An evil tree cannot bear good fruit" ( Matthew 7:18)---we have the "good fruits".  I can without hesitation commend any sincere seekers to any of our Homes or centers worldwide.    (Disclaimer:  This post reflects only my own opinions & is not to be taken as representative of views of other Family members or of official Family publications.   SEE the Family's website at:  http://www.thefamily.org/)

  

 

  

  

You are a representative of this loving "Christian" community and yet you publicly used the words "losers and complainers" to describe former members who report childhood sexual abuse that is admitted to have been encouraged  in the early days of this cult? 

  

You excuse the making of  child porn using children in your group, because it was only circulated for a short time and because somehow you think child porn is  "neither violent, ugly, nor perverse".  The fact that the child porn was created officially by your church is all I needed to hear. 

  

I sincerely hope that the persecution of your group continues until the church is wiped out. 

 
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October 26, 2005, 8:04 am PDT

Persecution vs Prosecution

Quote From: judyblue22

You are a representative of this loving "Christian" community and yet you publicly used the words "losers and complainers" to describe former members who report childhood sexual abuse that is admitted to have been encouraged  in the early days of this cult? 

  

You excuse the making of  child porn using children in your group, because it was only circulated for a short time and because somehow you think child porn is  "neither violent, ugly, nor perverse".  The fact that the child porn was created officially by your church is all I needed to hear. 

  

I sincerely hope that the persecution of your group continues until the church is wiped out. 

 What we are engaged in is prosecution, as the term persecution does not apply in the case of The Family International.  Persecution denotes (Webster)-to harras in a manner to injure, grieve, or afflict; to cause to suffer because of belief.  Persecution is what TFI did to their children.  Now I, and their children are prosecuting their parents for such acts.  I agree with you that there is no valid excuse for TFI's exploitation of their own children.  They will hide behind the mask of their Christian myth until the public helps us rip it off.
 
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October 26, 2005, 1:40 pm PDT

Berg and Zerby were/are pedophiles

Quote From: comeandsee

Hello all!  I've just read every post on this site, and I wish I could put my arms around everyone who is suffering, and give you a big hug, and that saying "Sorry" could fix it.  That can't be, but I promise you my prayers. 

  

I doubt there are many neutral souls left, after 20 pages of this debate!  But to the undecided & truth-seekers, let me tell you a bit about the The Family International of 2005.  I speak as a member for well over 30 years.  My father was a Protestant preacher.  As a High School valedictorian, politically alert, and with eyes wide open, I joined the "Children of God", impressed by their missionary dedication.  Their zeal looked a lot like what I was reading about in my New Testament, but not seeing in any church I attended.

  

 

As a group, we were radical & we were crazy---that's what it took to turn on a dropped-out drugged-out hippie generation to Christianity.  Our uncompromising anti-Establishment, anti-war, anti-zombie higher education, anti-Churchianity views made news, endeared us to many of the youth, and earned us some pretty hefty enemies in just about every sphere of society.  (But with a surprising number of patient parents, who admired our goals, and recognized we'd found real fulfillment.---Who in turn organized themselves into a support group, "Thank COG".)  Still, we were soon being labeled religious fascists by some, communist subversives by others, & a brainwashing cult by others. 

  

 

Some of this was surely brought on by our own foibles & inexperienced young leadership, full of zeal, lacking wisdom.  (---and definitely NOT under David Berg's control, ha, as some suggest.)  On the other hand, when people just plain don't like your message, or don't really understand you, it's amazing what kind of things they'll accuse you of, and actually believe. 

  

 

But we've learned as we've grown.  We started off as a group of largely teens & 20-somethings.  Then we began to have our own little families.  In our joy & enthusiasm, we felt that all our kids would "of course" want to follow in our footsteps.  But lo & behold, somehow they "grew up", and were faced with some of the same choices WE were as teens.—whether to give their life to God in some capacity, or move on to another lifestyle.  In our idealism, in some cases, we hadn't given them enough practical training to smoothly make the move to the "big bad world".  But that was not across the board by any means. Meanwhile, even in those cases, they often could speak a few different languages & had a good work ethic, were clean & honest.  (And may I add, no cavities, nor brain cells full of 1000's of hours of inane TV commercials, obscene cartoons, & senseless violence).  Not to speak of those youth who had developed & honed artistic gifts, musical, computer skills, handymen, etc. while in the group. 

  

Several of my own children are no longer in the Family.  Their initial transition was not smooth, but having "learned how to learn" at an early age, they soon surpassed their peers in public school.  One of my daughters just came out in the top 3 in her university exams, over hundreds of other students.  She is guaranteed a lifetime job as an educator, and is now teaching at a prestigious European High School.  Another daughter was top in her city's ballet/dance courses, and was offered entrance to a well-known academy in Paris.  A son put himself through cooking school & became an in-demand chef in another European capital.  Meanwhile, another daughter has continued her missionary work with the Family year upon year in some of the poorest countries in Africa, along with her husband & 4 bright, intelligent, home-schooled little kids---my grandkids, of whom I'm very proud. 

  

For the newbies here, the Family International is not an obscure secret cult.  Our work has been well documented by sociologists & academics for decades.  The media has had a great time, too, inevitably picking out anything sensational they could find about the group.  And admittedly, there's been plenty.  We are not your average Sunday-social church on the corner.   

  

In our earlier years, we were small and---not surprisingly---persecuted.   Of course, that was also exciting to us young folks, and it did result in a certain amount of "secrecy", or shall we say, caution.  This was not due to any wrongdoing or sense of guilt, but rather because much of our preachments were against the evils of the "System", the rich & influential members of which had the ability to wipe us out if they wished. 

  

Later, more & more of our "controversial" beliefs (read: anything that Billy Graham wouldn't preach) began to be publicized in the media.  And we began to accept this & get more comfortable with it.  And importantly, we realized that throwing the doors open on our beliefs & Homes was the best thing we could do.  Nothing to hide & everything to offer.  ---A cooperative lifestyle that works, and produces some pretty wonderful & amazing young people in the process. 

  

If that wasn't enough, now just about anything ever published within the Children of God/Family is now available on the Internet. ---Especially with the help of folks like "drcoosa" here on the website, who apparently has more time to read our Family publications than I do.  He somehow hijacks this copyrighted Family material & publishes it without authorization.  In fact, he pours over 30 years of publications, keeping a concordance of every "inflammatory" quote he can find.  His special faculty, like one of the X-Men, is to then interject these tidbits into a discussion in the most negative & odious light possible.   (Ha, ha, sorry to flame you there----you are a great debater, I grant.) 

  

I am not defending those who committed abuses.  There are sincere individuals who were hurt, obviously; and that is being well-covered in this forum.  I believe some of them would be happy if the individual who mistreated them was brought to justice. 

  

However, I must point out to our public that there is a deeper, darker, more far-reaching agenda here.   It is not to make reparation & heal hurts of the past, but rather to demonize & bring down one of the most positive & fruitful missionary fellowships of our present day.   From a Christian perspective----excuse me for those of you who don't know Jesus at this time---the people who are pushing this larger, more sinister agenda, have little care for God, for the sharing of Jesus' love with millions of hungry souls every year, for the bringing of encouragement & support to the needy in 100 countries around the world, with both tangible aide, as well as the intangible---satisfying that most basic human need for happiness. Not to speak of these folks wishing to terminate an unquestionably fulfilling way of life for thousands of missionaries & their families---now into three generations.  No, at whatever the cost to the millions, the whole group must be brought down & disbanded to appease the few.  I don't believe this is what China wants.  China knows that abuse in any form is non-existent in the Family today, and that's why she was confident to bring her little son & leave him in our care, while she took care of other timely business 2 years ago (I say this by way of confirmation of  the earlier post on that subject).   

  

I promise you, David Berg & Maria were/are NOT pedophiles.  Some folks here are painting a very perverse picture of two of the most loving, sacrificial, dedicated Christians you could possibly meet.  Radical? Yes.  Controversial?  Absolutely.   Weirdos?  Nope.  Dangerous?  Never. 

  

(Sorry, I wasn't going to get into specifics, but I've just got to address this anti-Semite question.   David Berg was Jewish by descent, as is a certain percentage of the Family overall.  His anger at the "Jews", as brought out in "drcoosa's" favorite quote from an emotional prayer, was as I recall specifically regarding Israeli mistreatment of the Palestinians.  With that stance, in a democratic world poll today, Berg would find himself in a very comfortable majority.  In spite of his outburst of that moment, did Family members---who you claim were under his "control"---all pick up guns & join Hamas?  [BEEP—master say...hate Jew---BEEP---must kill----BEEP...  Ha, ha, ha, give me a break!  Members understood & took it in perspective & so did you if you were here.   Did you go buy a gun?  Book your ticket to Jerusalem?  Come on!  Berg's comment was no more vehement in spirit than Jesus' own proclamation, "Ye are of your father the devil!" in John chapter 8.  Did Jesus teach or incite his personal 12 disciples to hatred & violence by thus saying, or by whipping the merchants out of the temple?  You know the answer.  (No.)  So quit plucking these quotes out of context & trying, like some kind of KKK wizard, to rally a lynch mob against the Family.  Some folks might actually believe you.  Talk about intolerance, Inquisition, Scarlet Letter, demagoguery, etc.----woh, YOU sound dangerous.  Everyone acquainted with the Family today is impressed by the impartial love they extend to people of all races & social status.  As all Christians should, we oppose what we consider wrongs in society, but this does not overrule love for individuals. ) 

  

Someone earlier mentioned why not try a "sting operation" against the Family.  Well, they've "been there, done that"!  In the early 90's, antagonists duped officials in several countries to "rescue" hundreds of Family children, through violent police raids.  Accusation: "child abuse".  Never mind that extensive medical & psychological tests turned up not one case of abuse amongst the approx. 700 children taken from their parents.   That's OK—the accusers weren't expecting to find abuse, as they knew there was none occurring.  It was just an excuse to try & pull down the Family.   All children were returned to their parents, and in some cases, damages awarded to Family members. 

  

I read all the same literature & lived in the Homes in the period of the alleged abuse.  It never crossed my mind to have sex with a little kid, nor to allow my kids to be abused by others.  "Abuse" was never a Family "policy", much less an institutionalized practice, nor will it ever be.  I know there WERE cases, and I don't wish to distress those folks as I say the following:   Although as the British Judge pointed out, there was an overly-sexualized atmosphere in the Family, the depiction of abuse, (not only sexual, but of child-labor, extreme punishment, etc.), is just not an accurate picture of the overall Family---not in any year you choose.  Home videos *, family photo albums, & honest media coverage from the past will bear out again & again, year after year, that our Homes were filled with happy, smiling, loving individuals.  (*  Re: Home videos:  You will of course trot out the example of the notorious "dance" videos, or "nudie cutie" pictures.  Those were circulated for a limited amount of time, then withdrawn.  For the record, they were neither violent, ugly, nor perverse.---Unlike your favorite primetime TV shows.  Indeed people from some cultures would see them & wonder what's the big deal.  Anyway, no Family member has seen any of that for about 20 years.  But I don't doubt that the hypocrites---who committed felonies in order to steal some of that material from locked storage to "use against" the Family---have been "enjoying" them in private ever since.) 

  

A young man left our fellowship a while back.  We're still friends, and he's now a successful businessman.  He confided, "I supported those folks (an anti-Family site) for a while after I left.  But I soon recognized they were 'losers' & 'complainers'."  (end of quote)  Please get my drift here, I am NOT saying anyone who chooses to leave the Family is a loser---not by a long-shot!  Indeed, many folks who leave soon find themselves favored for their positive attitudes, humility, solution-oriented thinking, ability to build a consensus, to communicate & to handle people, and how to teamwork—simply due to the fact that those are all necessary attributes to live our cooperative missionary lifestyle.   

  

But I am mentioning this because it is a trend of our time---which any "psychologist" should be able to identify---that people will try to blame their problems on anything they can.---They will sue the Army, their employer, their church, their parents, their school---you name it.  Their woes are anybody's fault but their own.    

  

Unfortunately in this respect, Dr. Phil may be as duped by the media as everyone else.  By the way, Dr. Phil (greetings), your site invited responses from people who feel they've been the subject of rumors, slander, etc.   But what recourse is there when your show is the perpetrator?  Where do we go from here?  The Supreme Court? Ha.  Please get your researchers to dig a little deeper next time---not just scrape off the surface scum you find in a quick internet search.   Why don't you get some of those employees out the door & to talk to some actual missionaries, people who are walking the walk;  or at least talk to the academics who have studied us & documented our lifestyle for years.  Better yet, why don't you have a talk with some of our folks, young & old?  But please don't ask us to show up in a kangaroo court there, where the deck has been stacked & showbiz/therapy needs to bring in big network bucks.   Meet us out on the street or during one of our volunteer activities, or come over for dinner.  (But no paparazzi.)  Warning:  You may be UNDERwhelmed by the lack of sexual atmosphere.  On the other hand, you may be impressed by the poise, spontaneity, dedication & maturity of our young people, and the sincerity & lack of guile of all.  Have an open-minded talk & make your own judgment.  Please don't be found to be unwittingly aiding & abetting a moral "crime" here, lured to carry someone else's unchecked baggage onboard a national TV show---a device wrapped in reasonable & truly pitiful cries for justice & closure from victims of abuse, but designed by others to hide a much more deadly payload of genuine religious persecution & the destruction of a valid & beneficial missionary movement. 

  

I feel a little bad, because after I submit this message, I'm going to leave the forum & not come back.  I'm way too busy as a missionary to continue this.  But since I paid my dues & read everything up until here, I just thought I'd leave my 2-cents with the public.  I will miss the sparks flying from responses to my post & my words probably being picked apart & regurgitated in the most twisted ways.  Some of our older detractors (hi guys) have become very professional at this, and can find you something evil in an Easter lily. 

  

I might add that most of our Members probably didn't see the show.  Many of them work in poor countries far from Paramount Studios.  They won't be writing in to this site.  Their sleeves are rolled-up, and they're having a life---one that resembles Mother Teresa's more than Hugh Hefner's, despite what our detractors would have you think.  It's a sacrificial life, and we (parents) have understood better now for the last 10 -15 years that not everyone wants to live it.  It took us a while to let go, and like doctors wanting their kids to be doctors, give them more space.  Now in our young people's training we not only emphasize life skills & attitudes that will be useful whether in or out of the group, but we do what we can to assist those who wish to go & pursue secular vocations.  And we continue to support them with our unconditional love & prayers.  (Thus, the rate of folks---both young & old----returning to resume missionary service in the Family after months or years of other pursuits has increased.  That doesn't tend to validate the image of an abusive cult that people are struggling at every opportunity to "escape", ha.) Meanwhile, those who have stayed & devoted themselves to missionary work are generally VERY fulfilled & happy.  If you want challenge, variety, excitement, to live for a cause, and to make your mark in a needy world---the Family International 2005 rocks! 

  

Well, I'd love to rebut all the mistruths, misrepresentations, and outright lies I've read on this forum.  But maybe there's no need:   Just "come & see".  Or contact the group via the Family website.  The difference between what you will find & what some of these detractors here are claiming will be so vast that you will be tempted to believe it's a sham.  But hang in there, it's as good as it looks.   We're not perfect, but we have got the goods, we have the lifestyle, we have the joy, we have the love of God.  "An evil tree cannot bear good fruit" ( Matthew 7:18)---we have the "good fruits".  I can without hesitation commend any sincere seekers to any of our Homes or centers worldwide.    (Disclaimer:  This post reflects only my own opinions & is not to be taken as representative of views of other Family members or of official Family publications.   SEE the Family's website at:  http://www.thefamily.org/)

  

 

  

  

Wow, Comeandsee! So many fallacies to shoot down and so little time. You’ll forgive me if I hit them in bullet point format. Your folksy “aw-shucks” routine is cute but does not pass muster in a debate that touches on so many real life and death issues. ~ I’m afraid that most of the victims here would find the thought of someone from your generation hugging them a horrifying reminder of the unwanted and perverse attention they received at the hands of your peers. ~ Your reference to the youthful Children of God leaders as not being under Berg’s control is belied by massive amounts of contradictory evidence much of it written by Berg himself. Berg demanded obedience from his followers, and those leaders who did not toe his line paid for it. You evidence that you are not fresh on your old MO letters, but I assure you that you are in error. ~ Your “mistakes” as parents go far beyond simple neglect in educational areas. Your generation (as has been born out by countless documents and videos) chose to make sex a focal part of your doctrine. The result of this was that you allowed each other access to your children to satisfy your criminal sexual perversions. ~ To argue that successful exfamily young people are evidence of a healthy upbringing is quickly disproved. Many young people have gone on after TFI to overcome countless obstacles (not the least of which is lack of education). That they have achieved success in their material lives cannot mask the very real emotional scars caused by the first generation pedophiles that ran rampant in you cult. ~ Your argument about your earlier secrecy would be perhaps plausible if it had changed over the years. The reality is that your group operates under hundreds of different names around the world. Your leaders and the managing units of your organization operate under a cloak of secrecy of the likes preferred by organized crime organizations. ~ Your statement of “nothing to hide” is belied by the evidence of all the redactions and publication purges conducted thought the years. If you’ve forgotten about the times when Family members were ordered to whiteout, cutout, and tear out passages in TFI publications that advocated pedophilia, I’d be happy to email you scans of those documents. ~ Yes, a lot of your publications are published on the web. Do you not realize how damaging these are to you claims of Christian purity and innocence? I am a full time student. I don’t have time to pour through Berg’s perverse writings. That is the beauty of search engines. ~ Your description of “hijacked” and “Copywrited family material” shows an obvious ignorance of fair use law. I am not profiting monetarily, nor am I taking credit of authorship. Your own SGAs use writings from others all the time in their many blogs. ~ You refer to me thus “His special faculty, like one of the X-Men, is to then interject these tidbits into a discussion in the most negative & odious light possibility”. I have simply posted the writings of your leaders supporting adult child sex and rabid Anti-Semitism. It is not hard to “present them in a negative […] light”. They are by definition disgusting and perverse. I defy you to explain them (especially the passages condoning pedophilia) as anything less. ~ You say the following: “However, I must point out to our public that there is a deeper, darker, more far-reaching agenda here. It is not to make reparation & heal hurts of the past, but rather to demonize & bring down one of the most positive & fruitful missionary fellowships of our present day.” I ask you. What proof do you have for this? Simply being told this by your leaders does not make it so. I am in perhaps one of the best positions to know whether your statement had any truth. It is a falsehood from snout to tail. You must offer proof that there is some over-arcing conspiracy to stop you “missionary work.” Absent that, your claims are nothing more than the ranting of the paranoid. We are not claiming that rampant sexual abuse is a constant part of currant Family life. We ARE claiming that it was in the past. We have been denied the chance at justice by the concentrated efforts of your leaders. Because other recourses have been denied us we have turned to the court of public opinion and have succeeded so far to expose the uncaring, unchristian, and criminal activities of your generation of Family members. ~ I defy you to identify who of those who have been actively involved in this media campaign is calling for the dismantling of TFI. Many of us have made countless statements to the contrary. We have simply called for accountability and justice. It is current Family members who shut their ears to this and continue to scream that we intend to destroy them. Get over you persecution complex. ~ You say, “I promise you, David Berg & Maria were/are NOT pedophiles. Some folks here are painting a very perverse picture of two of the most loving, sacrificial, dedicated Christians you could possibly meet. Radical? Yes. Controversial? Absolutely. Weirdos? Nope. Dangerous? Never.” Your leader Peter Amsterdam admitted to Justice Ward that Berg had written things that supported pedophilia, Justice Ward found that Merry Berg (Mene) had been sexually abused by Berg her grandfather. Do you sir dispute either of these two facts? Because they seem to contradict your statement that Berg was not a pedophile. Your claim that Zerby is not a pedophile is belied by her statement in the Summit jewels 93 that “there is nothing wrong with a little loving fondling of a child, and that anyone who experienced that in the past was not abused.” ~ Berg’s claim to Jewish identity may or may not be accurate. Whatever the case, it does not make his hundred of anti-Semitic statements any less virulent. Notice I did not say anti-Zionist. There are many who are anti-Zionist. Berg went beyond that, putting him in the camp of those who call for the complete extermination of the Jewish people around the world. Berg admired Hitler and lamented that he did not “finish the job”. This goes way beyond a passionate prayer in a time of anger, as you so disingenuously try to paint it. You say the following: So quit plucking these quotes out of context & trying, like some kind of KKK wizard, to rally a lynch mob against the Family. Some folks might actually believe you. Talk about intolerance, Inquisition, Scarlet Letter, demagoguery, etc.----wow, YOU sound dangerous. Everyone acquainted with the Family today is impressed by the impartial love they extend to people of all races & social status. As all Christians should, we oppose what we consider wrongs in society, but this does not overrule love for individuals.” Sir, pointing out the hypocrisy of a group that out of one side of their mouth claims to be for equality and human rights, while at the same time revering the words of a rabid anti-Semite, is not organizing a lynch mob. I repeat: get over your paranoid persecution complex. Am I intolerant for people who preach a hateful anti-Semitic doctrine? You bet I am sir and proud of it. Am I intolerant towards people who preached and acted on a perverse pedophile ideology? You better believe I am. Your attempt to obfuscate and hurl such names a KKK wizard is a laughable example of the pot calling the kettle black. ~ Your limp dismissal of the Family videos and publications that advocated child sexual abuse as having been in circulation for only a little while is both wrong and demonstrative of an overarching Family mentality that sees such child pornography as no big deal. Whatever length of time they were in circulation was too long, and long enough for my friends and I to suffer as a result of the mindset that allowed Family leaders to publish such filth without compunction. ~ You ask Dr.Phil to interview Family members. I suggest you ask your spokesperson Borowik if she was invited on the show. I believe she will tell you she was and turned down the request. ~ You say the following “designed by others to hide a much more deadly payload of genuine religious persecution & the destruction of a valid & beneficial missionary movement. “ Once again, I demand you back up such claims. Everything I have said to the media about TFI has been backed up by either family publications or my own personal experience. You continue to claim an over-arching conspiracy. I suggest if you hope to be believed, it becomes incumbent upon you to name a reasonable reason why so many young people would spend time, money, and public exposure to speak on this. I suggest you name the leaders of this, their motives, who finances them. I assure you, as someone who is in the epicenter of this, you will wind nothing at all to support you paranoid, hysterical, and self-serving claims. ~ The truth remains that no matter what claims you make to doing God’s work, you will always be under the shadow of this. The victims are determined to not let you and your ilk rewrite TFI’s history to escape the responsibility of your past crimes. You know what you have to do as a group to fix the past. But doing it would be hard, as many of your top leaders would have to face accusations of child abuse. But until you do this, your claim to being a humble Christian missionary group remains a lie.
 
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October 26, 2005, 7:28 pm PDT

They are not Mormons in Colorodo City

Quote From: sarah_ky

After watching the Dr.Phil show and doing some research of my own I do believe that "The Family" or "Children of God" is a terrible description of a Godly organization.  But, what i really don't understand is why is there not being more done about this?  Not only this cult but the mormons in colorado city?  If the president has all the power then why can't he or other govermnet offcials arrest all of there people involved in sexual abuse and physical abuse.  I understand there is a boundary between government and the church but, when abuse gets involved something extreme should be done to these people.  There are so many second generation members defending this religion by saying they grew up so happy and loving with none of this abuse going on.  This might be the case with some people involved with this religion, but if their religion stemed from a founder who promoted sexual abuse with children isnt that reason enough to know their religion is false and ungodly.  It might not be going on now, but it stemed from so many terrible things.  No true relgion is first started with sexual abuse with children.  They are following a religion that stemed by a very sick sexually twisted man.  I would love for anyone who disagrees to email me sarah_ray420@yahoo.com maybe i could talk some since into you.
While I agree with you message completly, and think the things that are happening in "The Family" and in Colorodo City are horrible, please do not call those in Colorodo City Mormons. They are the Fundementalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, and are not part of or accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, or what most people call mormons. By adding fundementalist to the name they claim to be part of the mormon church, but in reality it make LDS people sick to even imagine the horrors of the FLDS church. or more appropiately cult. The real mormons do not believe in pologomy or in any of the things happening there. It is a different group, that use a similar name. Please do not lump us together.
 

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October 27, 2005, 8:36 am PDT

10/03 The Family Cult

Quote From: jlamattery

 What we are engaged in is prosecution, as the term persecution does not apply in the case of The Family International.  Persecution denotes (Webster)-to harras in a manner to injure, grieve, or afflict; to cause to suffer because of belief.  Persecution is what TFI did to their children.  Now I, and their children are prosecuting their parents for such acts.  I agree with you that there is no valid excuse for TFI's exploitation of their own children.  They will hide behind the mask of their Christian myth until the public helps us rip it off.

There is no question that the actual perpetrators of each case of child abuse should be prosecuted.  However that is not enough.   

  

I believe it is important to ensure that the Family's history is publicized in any location they they move into so that innocent people are given full and clear warning.  I would hope that that warning would be sufficient to deter any new members. Many would consider that you and other ex-members following the organization and publicizing their past crimes to be persecution of the group, but I consider it justified in this case because they are not willing to look at their past, correct their practices and protect their children. 

 
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November 30, 2005, 2:50 pm PST

You're Absolutely Correct

Quote From: judyblue22

There is no question that the actual perpetrators of each case of child abuse should be prosecuted.  However that is not enough.   

  

I believe it is important to ensure that the Family's history is publicized in any location they they move into so that innocent people are given full and clear warning.  I would hope that that warning would be sufficient to deter any new members. Many would consider that you and other ex-members following the organization and publicizing their past crimes to be persecution of the group, but I consider it justified in this case because they are not willing to look at their past, correct their practices and protect their children. 

 Dear Judyblue-
I'm working on it and hope to have it launched before Christmas Day.
 
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December 11, 2005, 1:18 pm PST

The Family: It's not a cult : What a lie!

   How can you call the Family a cult to begin with? Because they choice to live as true believers did in Acts 2:44-46. They were all of one mind and one body. I can't think of one church that even tries to live together in community and be friends. Most churches you'll go to you'll see that person once a week for one hour of service.  How accurate can these reports be when they extremley one sided bias? You only took one side Dr. Phil, and thats called a one sided bias. Your no messiah Dr. Phil, Your not right about everything, you don't have all the answers. All I've seen is you bad mouth religion. I've yet to see one show of yours that had anything positive to say about a relgious group. I've met the Family they're the nicest people I've every met. They're great people but all you've done is speak evil abou them. You didn't have one positive thing to say about the Family. I bet you've never even met one of the members of the Family. I'm sure you wouldn't like it if some one said negative things about you and made up lies about you and never met you and only relied on what others had to say about you and then put it on national tv.  

 
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December 14, 2005, 1:56 pm PST

Letter to Maria & Peter/ TFI

 12/14/05

Karen Zerby/ Steven Kelly
The Family International


Dear Maria and Peter,

     Today is the anniversary of the day that Abe Braaten took his own life.  Soon it will also be the anniversary of the day that your son, Ricky, took his own life.  I wrote to you last January in an attempt to find out how such things could happen. You did not respond, except to say that you were busy traveling and would get back to me.  You still have not gotten back to me.  I know that you receive my letters, and that in fact you have personnel that monitor my website daily.  I will post this letter onto public web boards, as well as my own, so that you will have the opportunity to read it and respond.
     I am writing in request that you send me a list of TFI’s leadership in Thailand during the years that your members held my two daughters hostage there.  As you know, they were raped and beaten by members of your group, The Family International.  I have a partial list of both first and second-generation adults who were there during this time period of 1982-1989.  This list is made up of current members, as well as former members.  I would like you to provide me the list you have of those in the Chaing Mai, Thailand operation during these subject years.  
     You have stated that child abuse was not indoctrinated into your membership, and that what happened to my children was an isolated incident.  Your spokespersons have stated publicly that “some abuses” occurred.  In order to ascertain whether the incident was isolated or not, and what, in fact, action was taken by you or your representatives when you were notified of the abuse of my children, I would like to question the other adults that were in Chaing Mai during this time period.

Sincerely,
Jim LaMattery
(jimlamattery@hotmail.com)

 
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February 19, 2006, 8:36 am PST

A Full and Clear Warining

Quote From: jlamattery

 Dear Judyblue-
I'm working on it and hope to have it launched before Christmas Day.
 Dear Judyblue-
You are correct that the general public needs a full and clear warning about The Family International in their respective local communities.  I, and a group of young adults that left TFI, have organized a non-profit public benefit corporation to help accomplish this very goal.  You can visit our site at www.fpac.us and participate in boycotting TFI products, helping potential donors understand who and what they are contributing to when making monetary donations to TFI, apply public pressure, lobby for changes in the Statute of Limitations laws regarding sexual child abuse, and provide support for the hundreds of young adults that have left TFI and need help in reentering secular society.  Thank you for your comments as they strike to the heart of the matter.
Sincerely,
Jim LaMattery
FPAC
 
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July 14, 2006, 8:14 am PDT

think about it

 "They recognize each other by secret signs and marks; they fall in love almost before they are acquainted; everywhere they introduce a kind of religious lust, a promiscuous `brotherhood' and `sisterhood.'"  This is not some modern-day tabloid description of the Family, but a second century description of early Christians, who the Roman establishment considered to be a promiscuous sex cult which indulged in orgies at secret meetings.

One  fanciful story was The Acts of Paul and Thecla, which if nothing else reveals that anti-cult propaganda, mind-control fantasies and violent deprogramming attempts are at least as old as the second century. The story's virtuous heroine, Thecla, was a young betrothed girl in Iconium, who upon hearing St. Paul preach became enthralled by his teachings on virginity. Her parents were outraged and "sexualized" her behavior. Paul is accused of casting a love spell on her and Thecla is accused of being controlled by him, because she is "so strangely troubled . . . like a spider at the window bound by his words [she] is dominated by a new desire and a fearful passion. . . ." As for St. Paul, they conclude, "Away with the sorcerer, for he has corrupted all our women."

Remember the Word that I said unto you, the servant is not greater than his Lord. If they have persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. - Jesus

ACT.5:38-39 And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.
 
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