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Topic : 08/24 The Family Cult
(Original Air Date: 10/03/05) Imagine growing up in a cult where you are forced to have sex with strangers -- when you’re as young as 5. Dr. Phil talks to people who escaped the group known as the Children of God, and need help moving on. Meet a daughter who says she can’t forgive her father for the years of painful abuse she suffered at the hands of this cult. How can she reconnect with her dad and start trusting again? Plus, China and her husband, John, are building a new life after leaving the group, where they were forced to have sex with strangers when they were both underage. They’ve had a difficult time adjusting to the outside world, and China wonders if she should prosecute her parents for abuse. What does Dr. Phil think? Talk about the show here.
Find out what happened on the show.
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October 5, 2005, 10:37 pm PDT
 Quote From: hartsford If John & China knew the Family was such an abusive cult then why would they place their son under the care of one of the Family homes several years ago? If I am not mistaken it was for a duration of 3 to 4 weeks, correct me if I'm wrong. Ask China's son if he suffered any abuse while he was with us, was he beaten, sexually molested, brainwashed? I am sure that he will tell you that none of this happened and that we did all that we could to take care of him to the best of our ability.
We believe that our children are a gift from God and we would never think of harming them in any way! It makes me angry to hear allegations that our homes are not safe enviroments for our children! Our communities are free from substance abuse, bullying, sexual abuse, neglect and all other forms of abuse. The allegations that there was widespread abuse is ridiculous!!!!! Of course there were a few individuals in the past who were abusive and did some very wrong things.
However we shouldn't judge the entire population of the Family just by these few individuals. Should we consider all Catholic Priests pedophile homosexuals based on a handful of convictions? It would be ridiculous to now start judging every priest as a pedophile wouldn't it? Or maybe we should think that the whole catholic church is a perverted twisted cult that abuses children all the time.!!? This would be an ignorant and biased way of thinking wouldn't you say?
From an SGA male
Dear SGA male, You demonstrate in your above post a remarkable disconnect with the issues being addressed here. How does someone saying, "I was abused while I was in the Family" equate to "Every person currently in the Family is an abuser"? How does "I was sexually molested as a child in the Family" equate to "Every child in the Family is being sexually molested"? How does "Uncle So-&-so beat me when I was a child" equate to "Family children should be taken away from their parents"? Of all of the SGAs that WS has dubbed "vitriolic apostates", NONE, I repeat, not a single one of them wants to take your children away. You have several "vocal" ex-member friends (or former friends). Ask them if they would want to see your children taken away from you. Perhaps you forget that many of us were present during the raids. We know how it felt to be ripped away from our parents. We know how much good the raids accomplished (i.e. none). What makes you think that is what we are after? Why is it that current SGAs are adamant that they would rather die than see their own child abused, yet call their flesh-and-blood sister a liar when she says she was abused? Do you see the disconnect in logic here? Why do the same people who claim they are doing missionary work and feel called to help the needy turn their backs on their own hurting relatives and peers who seek closure? Do you see the inconsistency? Would you treat your daughter with the same disdain you treat your ex-member peers if she were to tell you she was (and god forbid this should happen) abused by a Family man? No. You would probably rather leave the Family than to let the abuser of your child go unpunished. So why is it that you do not understand your peer's quest for justice? Who is saying that the same abuses that were widespread (BTW, this was confirmed in a court of law by Lord Justice Ward. See http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Complete_Judgment_of_Lord_Justice_Ward#THE_ORAL_EVIDENCE_ABOUT_THE_SEXUAL_ACTIVITY_OF_CHILD_WITH_CHILD.2C_AND_AMONG_THE_TEENAGERS.) in the Family 2 decades ago are still happening? Who says you are guilty of acts of abuse? That the Family has cleaned up its act in recent years in an undisputed fact. To state otherwise is sheer stupidity. What remains in question is The Family's history; documented and attested to by ex-members and The Family's own past publications while being expunged and denied by current members not unlike yourself. You know, it is absolutely wonderful (if not expected of you) that you would never abuse your child or let her be abused. That is fantastic that you believe you have never witnessed nor experienced abuse. -- No intended sarcasm here. I mean every word. But, does that mean that many of my close friends and I were not abused during our childhoods in the Family? Of course not. Does it mean that we should forget about our upbringing and let past abuses be forgotten because others had it better? No. I find it preposterous that you would even suggest the opposite is true. I will not let you or Claire Borowik rewrite The Family's history. I will not let you take away from the fragments of a childhood I have left and so desperately need closure for. I cannot make this point clear enough: You can live whatever lifestyle you like. You can believe whatever you like. You can spend 3 hours a day "in the Bed of Love" with Jesus. I don't care. So long as you never committed any abuse, you have nothing to fear. Those who have committed acts of abuse (many of the FGAs) have remained silent while their young people fight their battles for them. Point in case: Where are the myconclusion statements from Lonnie Davis, Paul Peloquin, and any number of the other FGAs being called out as abusers? By trying to defend your lifestyle you inadvertently demonstrate your support for the accused pedophiles although I highly doubt this was your intention. It's late. My email address can be found below (in my reply to Phillydee's post). Feel free to contact me there if you feel like continuing this discussion offline. Cheers, Stephan |
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October 5, 2005, 10:48 pm PDT
Quote From: hartsford If John & China knew the Family was such an abusive cult then why would they place their son under the care of one of the Family homes several years ago? If I am not mistaken it was for a duration of 3 to 4 weeks, correct me if I'm wrong. Ask China's son if he suffered any abuse while he was with us, was he beaten, sexually molested, brainwashed? I am sure that he will tell you that none of this happened and that we did all that we could to take care of him to the best of our ability.
We believe that our children are a gift from God and we would never think of harming them in any way! It makes me angry to hear allegations that our homes are not safe enviroments for our children! Our communities are free from substance abuse, bullying, sexual abuse, neglect and all other forms of abuse. The allegations that there was widespread abuse is ridiculous!!!!! Of course there were a few individuals in the past who were abusive and did some very wrong things.
However we shouldn't judge the entire population of the Family just by these few individuals. Should we consider all Catholic Priests pedophile homosexuals based on a handful of convictions? It would be ridiculous to now start judging every priest as a pedophile wouldn't it? Or maybe we should think that the whole catholic church is a perverted twisted cult that abuses children all the time.!!? This would be an ignorant and biased way of thinking wouldn't you say?
From an SGA male
It's about what happen years ago. You all keep talking about how great it is now. We are talking about abuses from years ago. Their distance however, does not make them any less valid. You say you believe children are a gift from god... fine. But when we were growing up some Family people including you leader and his childcare workers obviously though children were a gift from god to be enjoyed sexualy. I still have not seen a Family SGA respond to the quotes from Berg excusing sex with children under the age of 10.
Are you sure you want to start making comparisons to the Catholic church? To begin with they don't have any doctrines that say the following." ANSWERS TO YOUR QUESTIONS!--NO.2 DO 1270 9/82 6. QUESTION: ALSO, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT ADULT BRETHREN LUSTING SEXUALLY AFTER CHILDREN UNDER 10 YEARS OLD!--Francis & Summer Sonrise; USA (Note: We have received several letters from concerned parents re: "unapproved" sex with young children--without counsel or knowledge of parents, usually done by single brothers. Any comment? TY! Love, Sara D) ANSWER: I think we've said enough about this in the Letters. But it's sad if the poor single brothers have to resort to this because of obvious sexual deprivation by older sisters! BERG
The Catholic Church had and probably still has a problem with pedophilia. The difference between your CULT and the Catholic Church is that they don't have writings advocating adult child sex. The Family does. So one can argue that if you prosecute the rapist and abusers in the clergy and then set up a system of reporting, and pay nearly a billion dollars in reperations to the victims it might help to clean the stain that has indeed come over the church. In the case of your CULT, to date, nothing of any substance has been done. Your CULT is still being run by the same pedophiles that were responsible for our abuse. You are still sending 14% of you income to support a leadership run thru with pedophiles. When we are given access to the Family's files, when the Family helps us to investigate every reported case of abuse no matter how high it reaches, when the Family tells us where the abusers are now residing, when the Family is forced to pay the victims for their suffering, when the Family proves...not just claims, but proves that all children are far from known pedophiles, when we are able to see our rapists and abuser behind bars where they belong, when the Family stops blaming this all on the victims...then...and only then will you be able in any fairness to even hope for legitimization.
Until then, you sir, as a young SGA in the Family will unfortunately have to bear the shame, inconvinience, difficulties, "persecution," and disruption to you work resulting from the criminal sexual perversions of the first generation of Family members from 10, 15, and 20 years ago. You wish to be free to do you missionary work. Might I submit that you job as missionaries would be much better acomplished without the large "millstone" of first generation unrepentant pedophiles draging you down.
Coosa MD. |
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October 5, 2005, 10:50 pm PDT
Quote From: hartsford If John & China knew the Family was such an abusive cult then why would they place their son under the care of one of the Family homes several years ago? If I am not mistaken it was for a duration of 3 to 4 weeks, correct me if I'm wrong. Ask China's son if he suffered any abuse while he was with us, was he beaten, sexually molested, brainwashed? I am sure that he will tell you that none of this happened and that we did all that we could to take care of him to the best of our ability.
We believe that our children are a gift from God and we would never think of harming them in any way! It makes me angry to hear allegations that our homes are not safe enviroments for our children! Our communities are free from substance abuse, bullying, sexual abuse, neglect and all other forms of abuse. The allegations that there was widespread abuse is ridiculous!!!!! Of course there were a few individuals in the past who were abusive and did some very wrong things.
However we shouldn't judge the entire population of the Family just by these few individuals. Should we consider all Catholic Priests pedophile homosexuals based on a handful of convictions? It would be ridiculous to now start judging every priest as a pedophile wouldn't it? Or maybe we should think that the whole catholic church is a perverted twisted cult that abuses children all the time.!!? This would be an ignorant and biased way of thinking wouldn't you say?
From an SGA male
How long had John and China been out of the Family when they did that? If you ever leave the Family, you will understand why I asked that. After you have been out a while, that is. It's called Detox.
I want to say a couple of things in response to your statement that "Of course there were a few individuals in the past who were abusive and did some very wrong things. However we shouldn't judge the entire population of the Family by just these few individuals."
1. If you don't want the entire population of the Family to be judged by "just these few individuals," demand that your leaders stop putting precisely these individuals in the top positions, such as King Peter, Queen/spiritual leader Maria, and their No. 3 man Perfilio. Or at the very least don't make them your face to the world in the position of North American spokespersons like they have.
Without startig a discussion on how many child rapes you would admit qualified as more than "few," we victims of these and other people will have no reason to think you say these things in good faith so long as precisely these people rise and stay at the top. What do you think this says about your group's values? If it were the well-being of non-abusers they cared about, one thinks they would choose a different MO.
Not to mention that while the Family says one thing in public (and I'll note that Claire Borowik's "we're very sorry" is a touch stronger than what I have heard until now. Too bad it is followed by "...and have apologized for any cases that may have occurred in the distant past." This hypothetical ("may") and minimizing ("distant past") is unsatisfactory to those of us who live every day with the very real effects of Post Traumatic Stress, depression, crippling anxiety and nightmares that won't go away. We are paying dearly for the jollies they got so cheaply.
Additionally, if the "distant past" is the extent of her apology, what is the cutoff for "distant past" after which they do not apologize? What about the multiple allegations of your spokesperson's involvement in sex with minors after 1985, which has been quoted as the end date of the period when abuse was permitted (in fact, enshrined in doctrine)?
2. The "abusive and very wrong things" that we survivors have blown the whistle on actually originated in the practices and teachings of your founder, Berg, who your group still reveres (http://www.thefamily.org/about/davidberg.php). See, just for starters, where he declares his "prophetic" views pedophilia, incest or rape: http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Berg_on_Pedophilia, http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Berg_on_Incest, or http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Berg_on_Rape. Then there's his "revolutionary" religious prostitution: http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Flirty_Fishing.
Did you know that at least some people *have* resigned etc. due to the scandal you mention that rocked the Catholic church? Boston's Cardinal Law, for example. Your leaders have decided, however, that they will do no such thing. They, not their victims who aren't keeping silent or declining to accept that what they suffered was OK as the Family tries to exhort them to do, and not even Dr. Phil, are currently the biggest threat to your "way of life."
I am concerned about the present and future environment for children (and other living beings) when I read what your top leader Maria has to say in the recent "GN" titled "The Persecution Confirmation." She (the mother of Ricky Rodriguez) repeatedly says that the Family is being persecuted (read: criticized) for righteousness' sake and not because the things survivors suffered in the Family were so wrong.
On one hand, Family youth come here and express indignation at what is reported, and on the other hand your "prophetess" says to the insiders that you are persecuted precisely because you are the darlings of God. Then clarifies that of course she and King Peter will not resign. I know frustration, but I see how a mother like that would take frustration to a whole new level for a tortured son. I can only hope that he is not forced to see her carrying on so Blythely after his desperate, misguided act.
No little girl -- or little boy -- deserves to be raised, as I was, with this idea of what it means to be a woman:
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/You_Are_The_Love_of_God%21
With a mother who went out to do this, as I learnt through comics like this:
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/True_Komix_-_Little_Flirty_Fishy
With this childrearing book guiding my caretakers:
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Story_of_Davidito
With this role model proffered as I matured into puberty:
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Heaven%27s_Girl
To "look forward to," only lack of romance and faithfulness:
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Law_of_Love, http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/True_Komix_-_Law_of_Love
Lest I dream of leaving, this frightening example:
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/The_Last_State
But if I stayed and insisted on thinking or asking questions, this threat:
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Victor_Program
And in an attempt to not be too much of a slouch, justifiably nervous considering what a hard act to follow Berg was in terms of pathology, your leader Maria comes up with this (which I am grateful to have escaped. God, why could I not escaped the rest?!):
http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Loving_Jesus
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October 6, 2005, 2:56 am PDT
First off I would like to say that I do not deny that there have been instances of abuse in the past history of The Family International! I think everyone is aware that at one point in time some sick’o abused someone!
To you who have been abused: I am sorry and I apologize for the hurt and turmoil you have felt. I say sorry for the people who have hurt you, whether they have said sorry to you or not! They have their sin and they know it. It is a sin that will stick in their conscience till the day they die! Then they will be judged by the one Righteous Judge.
I wish you were able to bring them to justice here on Earth, and some of you have been successful at that, but whether they are found guilty in a human court or in a heavenly one, they will be judged, make no mistake about that!
I ask you to do something that takes more courage and “balls” than it takes to drop an atom bomb on the one who hurt you.
I ask that you search within yourself the ability to FORGIVE!!!!
Who here has THAT level of maturity?
The world is already full of people who hate other people! The world is already full of bitterness and anger! You who are bitter and hateful only end up hurting yourself. (It’s scientifically proven)
I am NOT asking you to forgive and then just act as if nothing ever happened to you though. That is not the aim here.
You see, once you have forgiven someone their misdeed then you right away find peace in your soul! That’s just the way it is! And THEN you can go about finding the “culprit” of your abuse with a level head, and that WILL get you where you want to go.
Believe me, whoever hurt you is right this very moment feeling such sadness and such pain and regret that it’s probably like living hell for them. Imagine you committing abuse on a child and then having to live the rest of your life with the fright of being found out and put in jail. My God, it’s worse than being sent to jail; the fear and torture of the mind that you go through.
So, try to understand that you have been hurt, yes, but there is so much MORE pain and suffering in the world happening every second of every day, and there is SO much YOU could be doing to alleviate that pain and suffering. Take a look at YOUR life and ask yourself “Am I doing ALL I can to make this world a better place?”
Now I realize that to some of you the idea of posting hateful material on a forum like this one is in hopes of bringing to justice those who have wronged you. You could also say that you ARE working at making this world a safer place by trying to make sure that this someone who wronged you will not do what he/she did to you to another person.
But let me explain to you what you are ACTUALLY doing. (And PLEASE just listen for a second)
You got hurt by someone who was in The Family International at one time or another. Maybe they are still in The Family. So you have one person to blame.
That’s not enough though.
Then you start to wonder “Why did so and so abuse me? What gave so and so the idea?”
Ok well, first of all there are people who have never heard about The Family and have never read the literature produced within The Family. However those same people go and commit abuse/crime like the one you experienced and probably worse.
Also regarding where you want to place the blame of why so and so abused you is another thing to bear in mind. It’s something we all have: The Majesty of Free Choice!
You have it, as do I, and so did the person who abused you! They CHOSE to do what they did. They could have picked up a porn magazine somewhere and got some f**ked up idea as in like, “Hmmm, I wonder how it would feel to do this and that to so and so”.
They might have gone on the web and got interested in those abusive perversions there. They may have just been around too many “younger” girls as opposed to how many mature women were around.
And yes there is also the possibility that they thought something they read in The Family’s literature said that it was alright to do what they did.
These are ALL possibilities!
But should we prohibit any construction company from building buildings that are over 1 story high because HUNDREDS of people are jumping to their death everyday in China alone?
Now mind you that I am fully aware that there have been some things in Family literature that could have been said in a completely different way, a nicer way and a more “politically correct” way.
But at the end of the day just because you READ it does not mean you have to ACCEPT or ENACT it.
It’s like saying that Arnold S. (now governor of California) should be arrested and “brought to justice” because some idiot watched the “Terminator” series and decided that he too would like to be invincible. So he went out one night and shot him some humans. He got arrested and went to some “insane-ville”. But should Arnold get the flack for acting out “Terminator”?
The point I am trying to make is that there is a constant flow of information entering our brains. What we do with that information is, and will always be, up to YOU! Can we agree on that point on its lonesome? I think we can.
On the other hand some of the “abused” say that the “Leadership” of The Family must pay for what THEY have done.
Ok, well here again, if you are going to try getting Zerby and Peter in trouble for something they WROTE then I’ll save you the trouble by telling you here that no judge/lawyer/jury will ever take you seriously. You won’t even make it to court with a storyline like that.
Again what about the novel Author who writes a story, and in this novel there is a part with a victim being sexually abused, and some person reads that part of the book and gets all turned-on by it and ends up committing an act of sexual assault that very night? Will the Author be blamed for what he wrote? No way!
So since you can’t make a case, due to mankind’s majesty of Free Choice, you decide that the only way to get at the leadership is to accuse them personally of abuse.
How you go about that is anyone guess. What I mean is that the stories vary from one person to the next regarding the same person.
If a detective were to be facing you right now and ask you: “What PHISICAL evidence do you have that present leaders of The Family are committing sexual abuse, or abuse of any other kind”, what would you give them?
You would start telling them “things”! And they would say: “Yes well that’s nice and all, but that’s not going to stand in a court of law. What we need is hard a$$ evidence, physical stuff.”
You might then start pointing them to various websites mastered by other ex-members of The Family. Here again, most of the stuff on those sites could never substantiate your accusations in a court of law. It is stuff they SAID/WROTE. It is pictures of two children affectionately lying on top of one another (as in like a hug perhaps?! You know I could probably catch your kids doing the same thing.).
And the stuff on the web that possibly could be used to build a case against leaders of The Family would end up going into a little folder with “The Family International” written on it and put into a large drawer in the office for later investigation.
Then (if they open a case of investigation) they would contact a spokesperson of The Family International and ask that they, with their lawyer/s, present themselves at such and such a time and place. Or they might come and visit one of The Family homes where the spokesperson would be residing.
They would go over the various materials that are in question and the spokesperson would explain everything in gross detail.
Oh wait…….that’s all been done already.
People wake up and smell the coffee, The Family International has been brought to court and all the materials in question (and I mean EVERYTHING from “FF’ing” to “child sex”) has been brought to the attention of the entire world! And it did not happen just once, not just twice, but it happened again and again in various corners of the globe.
All the outcomes were identical: NOT GUILTY
There WERE things that had to be apologized for and those things were made public. If you did not see the apologies then you were most likely not LOOKING for them.
The FACT is that the judges made sure that there were safeguards in place in The Family’s Charter of Rights and Responsibilities to ensure that all members know beyond a shadow of a doubt that child abuse of any kind, shape or form is ABSOLUTLY NOT PERMITTED!
The Family’s leadership and literature have all already been brought before courts and high courts. It’s already been done, and judgments have already been given. There is no more “gold” there.
Those who were guilty were prosecuted as such. I am not saying that ALL have been prosecuted. There are most likely some still aging away with the fear and torment of past wrong-doings. But like I said before, they are living their own hell. Why trouble yourself with “justice”? God brings true justice to all, all the time and every second of every day!!!
Now what about that certain someone who abused you? Why not get on to them?
Ok, you then say that you cannot get to them because of The Family casting a “shadow” over them. Come on, do you think the governments and police would have any trouble finding and arresting someone who they KNEW was hiding from justice? No Sir!
So it all comes down to this: When you have proof enough to convince a lawyer or police officer that so and so really did molest you or abuse you in some way, then take it to the authorities of whichever country you are a citizen of and place charges on them.
When we talk about proof in the case of you having been abused in whatever way, we are really looking for some of the following:
1) Photo’s picturing the “abuse” 2) Video showing the “abuse” 3) Audio playing sounds of the “abuse” 4) Literature/E-mail having to do with the “abuse” {(a) As in a document written by the accused to someone else, telling of the “abusive” act. (b) Or a diary written by the accused stating the act of “abuse”} 5) Witnesses who physically witnessed the “abuse” 6) Physical marks on victim showing “abuse” and proof that the marks are indeed directly connected with the “abusive” behavior
These are things that stand up in court
After this it will be the authorities’ job to hunt down the accused and bring him/her to justice!
THAT is how it works.
Again I am sorry for the pain and hurt you may feel. I wish there was more I could do. But really, I know that if you find it within yourself to forgive those who have wronged you that you will find you have a wonderful life and so much to be happy about.
I really do not have much more to say. I think I have been very rational, realistic and “down-to-earth”!
I got to go now and put my 2 month old baby girl to sleep. Her name is Leona, by the way, and I would not EVER permit ANYONE to abuse her.
Peace go with you!
-e-
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October 6, 2005, 4:35 am PDT
Quote From: hartsford If John & China knew the Family was such an abusive cult then why would they place their son under the care of one of the Family homes several years ago? If I am not mistaken it was for a duration of 3 to 4 weeks, correct me if I'm wrong. Ask China's son if he suffered any abuse while he was with us, was he beaten, sexually molested, brainwashed? I am sure that he will tell you that none of this happened and that we did all that we could to take care of him to the best of our ability.
We believe that our children are a gift from God and we would never think of harming them in any way! It makes me angry to hear allegations that our homes are not safe enviroments for our children! Our communities are free from substance abuse, bullying, sexual abuse, neglect and all other forms of abuse. The allegations that there was widespread abuse is ridiculous!!!!! Of course there were a few individuals in the past who were abusive and did some very wrong things.
However we shouldn't judge the entire population of the Family just by these few individuals. Should we consider all Catholic Priests pedophile homosexuals based on a handful of convictions? It would be ridiculous to now start judging every priest as a pedophile wouldn't it? Or maybe we should think that the whole catholic church is a perverted twisted cult that abuses children all the time.!!? This would be an ignorant and biased way of thinking wouldn't you say?
From an SGA male
Dear SGA male, You demonstrate in your above post a remarkable disconnect with the issues being addressed here. How does someone saying, "I was abused while I was in the Family" equate to "Every person currently in the Family is an abuser"? How does "I was sexually molested as a child in the Family" equate to "Every child in the Family is being sexually molested"? How does "Uncle So-&-so beat me when I was a child" equate to "Family children should be taken away from their parents"? Of all of the SGAs that WS has dubbed "vitriolic apostates", NONE, I repeat, not a single one of them wants to take your children away. You have several "vocal" ex-member friends (or former friends). Ask them if they would want to see your children taken away from you. Perhaps you forget that many of us were present during the raids. We know how it felt to be ripped away from our parents. We know how much good the raids accomplished (i.e. none). What makes you think that is what we are after? Why is it that current SGAs are adamant that they would rather die than see their own child abused, yet call their flesh-and-blood sister a liar when she says she was abused? Do you see the disconnect in logic here? Why do the same people who claim they are doing missionary work and feel called to help the needy turn their backs on their own hurting relatives and peers who seek closure? Do you see the inconsistency? Would you treat your daughter with the same disdain you treat your ex-member peers if she were to tell you she was (and god forbid this should happen) abused by a Family man? No. You would probably rather leave the Family than to let the abuser of your child go unpunished. So why is it that you do not understand your peer's quest for justice? Who is saying that the same abuses that were widespread (BTW, this was confirmed in a court of law by Lord Justice Ward. See http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Complete_Judgment_of_Lord_Justice_Ward#THE_ORAL_EVIDENCE_ABOUT_THE_SEXUAL_ACTIVITY_OF_CHILD_WITH_CHILD.2C_AND_AMONG_THE_TEENAGERS.) in the Family 2 decades ago are still happening? Who says you are guilty of acts of abuse? That the Family has cleaned up its act in recent years in an undisputed fact. To state otherwise is sheer stupidity. What remains in question is The Family's history; documented and attested to by ex-members and The Family's own past publications while being expunged and denied by current members not unlike yourself. You know, it is absolutely wonderful (if not expected of you) that you would never abuse your child or let her be abused. That is fantastic that you believe you have never witnessed nor experienced abuse. -- No intended sarcasm here. I mean every word. But, does that mean that many of my close friends and I were not abused during our childhoods in the Family? Of course not. Does it mean that we should forget about our upbringing and let past abuses be forgotten because others had it better? No. I find it preposterous that you would even suggest the opposite is true. I will not let you or Claire Borowik rewrite The Family's history. I will not let you take away from the fragments of a childhood I have left and so desperately need closure for. I cannot make this point clear enough: You can live whatever lifestyle you like. You can believe whatever you like. You can spend 3 hours a day "in the Bed of Love" with Jesus. I don't care. So long as you never committed any abuse, you have nothing to fear. Those who have committed acts of abuse (many of the FGAs) have remained silent while their young people fight their battles for them. Point in case: Where are the myconclusion statements from Lonnie Davis, Paul Peloquin, and any number of the other FGAs being called out as abusers? By trying to defend your lifestyle you inadvertently demonstrate your support for the accused pedophiles although I highly doubt this was your intention. It's late. My email address can be found below (in my reply to Phillydee's post). Feel free to contact me there if you feel like continuing this discussion. Cheers, Stephan |
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October 6, 2005, 5:18 am PDT
The experience of those seen on the Dr. Phil Show that dealt with The Family is not unique or even rare. How we wish it was. The effects of being in such groups are all-pervasive and persistent. We have worked with many people over the years including a large number of former Family members. We have the only long term transitional facility in the world(that we are aware of) that helps people from these kinds of experiences (high control dangerous groups) to put their lives together and move on to have fulfilling "peaceful" lives. We are not interested in "taking down" groups ...only in restoring life to those who have left. We have been doing this for 15 years and have a web site for anyone who would like to look at it. We are a non-profit organization and we are willing to work it out with those in need as to the cost of the program. Cost should not be a deterrent to getting help!! Check us out... www.meadowhaven.org. We are here to help, Judy Pardon |
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October 6, 2005, 5:24 am PDT
The thing with current members is that they revere Berg and Maria as prophets, their divine link with God. To fully renounce their teachings to the extent that would satisfy most ex-members would be equivalent to renouncing their divine anointed ones, it would throw the belief system on which they base their lives into chaos, that's why they fight it so hard. I think most people agree that the family has, thanks to numerous court cases and bad media coverage, cleaned up their act. So that aspect of the "cycle of abuse" has stopped. The family has whitewashed and covered up the sordid aspects of it's past, but there have been apologies and there is enough that they as good as admit to by refusing to deny. It may be deluded of them, but the family sees itself as a legal and religious entity in its own right. There have been many examples of fiasco coverups in the American government, but most people understand that to demand admissions of guilt from those in power would undermine their authority. Nixon received a pardon from LBJ so that the presidential name wouldn't be dragged through the dirt. Catholic priests do not report crimes they become aware of in the confessional, neither do lawyers or doctors reveal priviledged information. If they did, it would undermine the whole process. The family leadership see themselves in this role, that of government, priest and doctor and shrink. If they were to make public the information that was revealed to them in confidence, they would be relinquishing this role, which they are not likely to do, voluntarily at least. I'm not trying to justify or champion the cause of the family, nor am I trying to judge ex-members or trivialize what they've suffered. I've watched my own family be pulled apart by this group, and I can only imagine how difficult it must have been for those on the show to come forward the way they have. The question I have is when will those fighting for justice be satisfied? Are their expectations and demands realistic? I've heard some say they don't want to destroy the group, but do they realise that their demands will likely pull apart the foundation that it is based on? It's very possible that they're demanding something that its members cannot give. By saying this I'm not saying that members shouldn't make amends, I wholeheartedly believe that abusers should be brought to justice, but there are too many things in life that should be and aren't. I've just seen the ex-member community and the current member community at a loggerheads for a while now, no one is giving ground and no one is winning. It tears me up inside because as current members just grow stronger in their beliefs, ex-members are reliving their suffering, over and over. They have wounds that they say can't begin to heal until the family pays for what they have done, what if that is never realised? By making the start of the healing process contingent on action from the family, we continue to give them power over our lives. We may not have had control over our past, we may not have had the options, the choices that we should have had, but we do have the future and no one should take that away from us. It's so easy to say, "forgive and forget", but it's one of the hardest things in the world to do. I say forgive, for our own sakes, but never forget. |
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October 6, 2005, 6:42 am PDT
What planet are you from ? this is REALITY ! it may be JUST a tv show for YOU but those are REAL people up there telling what happened to THEM so others dont get pulled into their cult . this stuff goes on all the time and while YOUR not willing to accept it, others can so PLEASE dont pull others down to your level thank you Lori |
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October 6, 2005, 7:42 am PDT
Quote From: leocon First off I would like to say that I do not deny that there have been instances of abuse in the past history of The Family International! I think everyone is aware that at one point in time some sick’o abused someone!
To you who have been abused: I am sorry and I apologize for the hurt and turmoil you have felt. I say sorry for the people who have hurt you, whether they have said sorry to you or not! They have their sin and they know it. It is a sin that will stick in their conscience till the day they die! Then they will be judged by the one Righteous Judge.
I wish you were able to bring them to justice here on Earth, and some of you have been successful at that, but whether they are found guilty in a human court or in a heavenly one, they will be judged, make no mistake about that!
I ask you to do something that takes more courage and “balls” than it takes to drop an atom bomb on the one who hurt you.
I ask that you search within yourself the ability to FORGIVE!!!!
Who here has THAT level of maturity?
The world is already full of people who hate other people! The world is already full of bitterness and anger! You who are bitter and hateful only end up hurting yourself. (It’s scientifically proven)
I am NOT asking you to forgive and then just act as if nothing ever happened to you though. That is not the aim here.
You see, once you have forgiven someone their misdeed then you right away find peace in your soul! That’s just the way it is! And THEN you can go about finding the “culprit” of your abuse with a level head, and that WILL get you where you want to go.
Believe me, whoever hurt you is right this very moment feeling such sadness and such pain and regret that it’s probably like living hell for them. Imagine you committing abuse on a child and then having to live the rest of your life with the fright of being found out and put in jail. My God, it’s worse than being sent to jail; the fear and torture of the mind that you go through.
So, try to understand that you have been hurt, yes, but there is so much MORE pain and suffering in the world happening every second of every day, and there is SO much YOU could be doing to alleviate that pain and suffering. Take a look at YOUR life and ask yourself “Am I doing ALL I can to make this world a better place?”
Now I realize that to some of you the idea of posting hateful material on a forum like this one is in hopes of bringing to justice those who have wronged you. You could also say that you ARE working at making this world a safer place by trying to make sure that this someone who wronged you will not do what he/she did to you to another person.
But let me explain to you what you are ACTUALLY doing. (And PLEASE just listen for a second)
You got hurt by someone who was in The Family International at one time or another. Maybe they are still in The Family. So you have one person to blame.
That’s not enough though.
Then you start to wonder “Why did so and so abuse me? What gave so and so the idea?”
Ok well, first of all there are people who have never heard about The Family and have never read the literature produced within The Family. However those same people go and commit abuse/crime like the one you experienced and probably worse.
Also regarding where you want to place the blame of why so and so abused you is another thing to bear in mind. It’s something we all have: The Majesty of Free Choice!
You have it, as do I, and so did the person who abused you! They CHOSE to do what they did. They could have picked up a porn magazine somewhere and got some f**ked up idea as in like, “Hmmm, I wonder how it would feel to do this and that to so and so”.
They might have gone on the web and got interested in those abusive perversions there. They may have just been around too many “younger” girls as opposed to how many mature women were around.
And yes there is also the possibility that they thought something they read in The Family’s literature said that it was alright to do what they did.
These are ALL possibilities!
But should we prohibit any construction company from building buildings that are over 1 story high because HUNDREDS of people are jumping to their death everyday in China alone?
Now mind you that I am fully aware that there have been some things in Family literature that could have been said in a completely different way, a nicer way and a more “politically correct” way.
But at the end of the day just because you READ it does not mean you have to ACCEPT or ENACT it.
It’s like saying that Arnold S. (now governor of California) should be arrested and “brought to justice” because some idiot watched the “Terminator” series and decided that he too would like to be invincible. So he went out one night and shot him some humans. He got arrested and went to some “insane-ville”. But should Arnold get the flack for acting out “Terminator”?
The point I am trying to make is that there is a constant flow of information entering our brains. What we do with that information is, and will always be, up to YOU! Can we agree on that point on its lonesome? I think we can.
On the other hand some of the “abused” say that the “Leadership” of The Family must pay for what THEY have done.
Ok, well here again, if you are going to try getting Zerby and Peter in trouble for something they WROTE then I’ll save you the trouble by telling you here that no judge/lawyer/jury will ever take you seriously. You won’t even make it to court with a storyline like that.
Again what about the novel Author who writes a story, and in this novel there is a part with a victim being sexually abused, and some person reads that part of the book and gets all turned-on by it and ends up committing an act of sexual assault that very night? Will the Author be blamed for what he wrote? No way!
So since you can’t make a case, due to mankind’s majesty of Free Choice, you decide that the only way to get at the leadership is to accuse them personally of abuse.
How you go about that is anyone guess. What I mean is that the stories vary from one person to the next regarding the same person.
If a detective were to be facing you right now and ask you: “What PHISICAL evidence do you have that present leaders of The Family are committing sexual abuse, or abuse of any other kind”, what would you give them?
You would start telling them “things”! And they would say: “Yes well that’s nice and all, but that’s not going to stand in a court of law. What we need is hard a$$ evidence, physical stuff.”
You might then start pointing them to various websites mastered by other ex-members of The Family. Here again, most of the stuff on those sites could never substantiate your accusations in a court of law. It is stuff they SAID/WROTE. It is pictures of two children affectionately lying on top of one another (as in like a hug perhaps?! You know I could probably catch your kids doing the same thing.).
And the stuff on the web that possibly could be used to build a case against leaders of The Family would end up going into a little folder with “The Family International” written on it and put into a large drawer in the office for later investigation.
Then (if they open a case of investigation) they would contact a spokesperson of The Family International and ask that they, with their lawyer/s, present themselves at such and such a time and place. Or they might come and visit one of The Family homes where the spokesperson would be residing.
They would go over the various materials that are in question and the spokesperson would explain everything in gross detail.
Oh wait…….that’s all been done already.
People wake up and smell the coffee, The Family International has been brought to court and all the materials in question (and I mean EVERYTHING from “FF’ing” to “child sex”) has been brought to the attention of the entire world! And it did not happen just once, not just twice, but it happened again and again in various corners of the globe.
All the outcomes were identical: NOT GUILTY
There WERE things that had to be apologized for and those things were made public. If you did not see the apologies then you were most likely not LOOKING for them.
The FACT is that the judges made sure that there were safeguards in place in The Family’s Charter of Rights and Responsibilities to ensure that all members know beyond a shadow of a doubt that child abuse of any kind, shape or form is ABSOLUTLY NOT PERMITTED!
The Family’s leadership and literature have all already been brought before courts and high courts. It’s already been done, and judgments have already been given. There is no more “gold” there.
Those who were guilty were prosecuted as such. I am not saying that ALL have been prosecuted. There are most likely some still aging away with the fear and torment of past wrong-doings. But like I said before, they are living their own hell. Why trouble yourself with “justice”? God brings true justice to all, all the time and every second of every day!!!
Now what about that certain someone who abused you? Why not get on to them?
Ok, you then say that you cannot get to them because of The Family casting a “shadow” over them. Come on, do you think the governments and police would have any trouble finding and arresting someone who they KNEW was hiding from justice? No Sir!
So it all comes down to this: When you have proof enough to convince a lawyer or police officer that so and so really did molest you or abuse you in some way, then take it to the authorities of whichever country you are a citizen of and place charges on them.
When we talk about proof in the case of you having been abused in whatever way, we are really looking for some of the following:
1) Photo’s picturing the “abuse” 2) Video showing the “abuse” 3) Audio playing sounds of the “abuse” 4) Literature/E-mail having to do with the “abuse” (a) As in a document written by the accused to someone else, telling of the “abusive” act. (b) Or a diary written by the accused stating the act of “abuse” 5) Witnesses who physically witnessed the “abuse” 6) Physical marks on victim showing “abuse” and proof that the marks are indeed directly connected with the “abusive” behavior
These are things that stand up in court
After this it will be the authorities’ job to hunt down the accused and bring him/her to justice!
THAT is how it works.
Again I am sorry for the pain and hurt you may feel. I wish there was more I could do. But really, I know that if you find it within yourself to forgive those who have wronged you that you will find you have a wonderful life and so much to be happy about.
I really do not have much more to say. I think I have been very rational, realistic and “down-to-earth”!
I got to go now and put my 2 month old baby girl to sleep. Her name is Leona, by the way, and I would not EVER permit ANYONE to abuse her.
Peace go with you!
-e-
You say this is the kind of proof you are looking for:
1) Photo’s picturing the “abuse” http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Image:My_flirty_fish_pg_3.jpg (I direct your attention especially at the photo in the bottom left-hand corner) 2) Video showing the “abuse” I point you to the numerous videos of children who did the nude dances for Berg. 3) Audio playing sounds of the “abuse” I refer you to the audio recording of The Last State which was transcribed and published 4) Literature/E-mail having to do with the “abuse” {(a) As in a document written by the accused to someone else, telling of the “abusive” act. (b) Or a diary written by the accused stating the act of “abuse”} Got that too. There are a number of FSMs and Q&A letters on that one. 5) Witnesses who physically witnessed the “abuse” Got plenty of those. Count me as one of them. 6) Physical marks on victim showing “abuse” and proof that the marks are indeed directly connected with the “abusive” behavior You really think those kinds of bruises last 20 years?
In number 5 you indicate that oral testimony counts as evidence. Why do you think this does not apply to the victim of abuse? Did you know that in a court of law oral evidence IS evidence? Many of the ex-SGAs are lawyers you could run circles around you when it comes to the law. Trust me, you don't want to get into that with them.
You say The Family has always been found "not guilty". It seems abvious that you have not read the Judgement of Lord Justice Ward in its entirety. http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Complete_Judgment_of_Lord_Justice_Ward
In it He give the most comprehensive outline of The Family's History to date. His judgement: "I accept the generality of the evidence presented to me that there was widespread activity of that kind (sex with minors) to an extent significantly greater than would take place between children and between teenagers outside The Family. " The are also at least 2 courtcases that I know of (one in France, the other in the US) in which Family members were found guilty. But Maria and Peter don't publish that kind of news to their Members.
I'm not sure if you think I'm stupid, but all the stuff you reccomemnded we do when it comes to forgiveness and getting rid of our bitterness: I've done that. Now I'm in the final stage in which I seek justice for myself and those of my peers who were abused.
You may not realize this but you are doing some serious projecting onto the ex-members. Are you familiar with that concept?
You seem very disconnected with the feelings of the victims of abuse. You seem to think that they have not considered all of the things you mention. But don't worry about it. I used to be as naive as you. I used to wonder why on earth anyone would say abuse occured in the Family. I used to reason with myself that the experiences I had were not abusive. In fact, were I still in The Family, I can see myself writing a post similar to your own. I have hope that you'll see it differently some day. I never thought I would. I swore I would stay in the Family for the rest of my life. And yet, here I am.
Loecon, here's where what you write just doesn't add up. You say that you are truly sorry for the pain that the vicitms of abuse feel, and yet you place all of your references to abuse in quotes, as if you don't really consider them abused. You act as if you don't believe a word of what the abuse victims say. Your post is blatantly two-faced. So which is it? Do you believe they were abused or do you not? |
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October 6, 2005, 8:21 am PDT
mia2005 wrote: "The question I have is when will those fighting for justice be satisfied? Are their expectations and demands realistic?"
Excellent question. I have had to ask myself this numerous times. The conclusion I have personally arrived at is this: I will be satisfied when Maria and Peter take full responsibility for their actions and the hurt caused by it when they aknowledge the extent of the abuse, make substantial efforts to compensate those affected by the abuse (this does not necessarily mean monetarily). I will be satisfied when The Family assists thoes who where abused in bringing their abusers to justice, much like The Catholic Church has done.
I have no doubt that half of these accusations of abuse will cease when The Family acknowledges to its members and to the public how wisespread the abuse was, denounces (both publically and internally with all the customary GN verbiage) all writings of David Berg that condone child labor, racism, physical and sexual abuse. (Heck, denouncing Berg altogether would do the trick, too. But I'm being realistic.)
The fact is, Maria and Peter don't care about the abuse victims. They're not even willing to communicate with them face to face, much less listen to their heartcries.
I believe the two most importeant issues faced by the ex-members are 1) some form of justice to be served and 2) validation of their abusive experiences. The Family cannot expect this issue to go way a substantial effort is made to address those.
As far as wanting the family destroyed, I personally believe there is no need for that. By their own statistics (http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Statistics) they are losing 10% of their core membership every year. I'd give it another 15 to 20 years, tops. |
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