Topic : 10/07 The Latest Debates

I agree with you on the education aspect.  ABSOLUTELY we should educate our kids.  and we have to fight a media that is sex-obsessed.  this is not an easy problem with an easy solution.  condoms in schools are a quick fix that will not fix the problem.  education is.  parental involvement is.  I also have counseled many women, being a nurse.  it's amazing how many girls don't know how their bodies work.  but they are getting sex ed in school!  how is this happening???  because they are teaching kids HOW to have sex and not giving them the info they need.  it's appalling.  and sad.  also you have A students and D students.  same in the sex ed classes.  the D students just aren't going to get it.   

I really believe the problem is our culture.  parents work and are too busy trying to live their lives.  kids are more likely to get pregnant between the hours of 3 and 5 pm.    many European countries, like Sweden, still have very strong family connections.  but also, how much of the low pregnancy rates are due to abortions?  is that factored in?  just curious...  many of us in this country have forgotten our basic family values.  and we have forgotten our Judeo-Christian values and replaced it with the god of political correctness.  we warehouse our kids and our elderly.  everything has to be convenient.  and that's gotten us into some trouble on the moral front. 

thanks for your thoughtful comments, btw. 

  

I wonder how many of those babies that died would have survived Hurricane Katrina if their moms had been breastfeeding.  how sad babies died because of no formula!!  I personally think EVERY mom should breastfeed!  but that's just MY opinion...

Don't you think giving the attacker the condom would be giving him permission to carry through this sick thing. and as some one else mentioned, it could backfire on her and he can convince the courts that she agreed to it and remind them that it was HER that handed him the condom. NOT a good idea. I would rather my girls fight back and leave scratch marks, scream and yell and draw attention and whatever else they can do to get way from this guy and to leave evidence of the attack, not to give in and say, "o by the way, here is a condom to help protect YOU". just another way to protect the criminal I think and to punish the victim.

I have a 5 month old precious little girl. I had decided to nurse and supplement with formula (this way my husband and my 11 and 14 yr. olds can feed and bond with her as well). I do what I feel is right. When I have to go anywhere, I carry a bottle with me. If I am in a Dept. store and feel it is time to nurse, I will go in a dressing room (I have a problem with going to a restroom for that). I have nursed in the back seat of my van - it has tinted windows, with the vehicle running and the air conditioner on. Other times I give her a bottle. This way she gets the best of both worlds. 

I know everyone has their own opinion, but I go with my own personal convictions and what I feel like is right.  I personally would not feel comfortable nursing in public. "But that's just me."  :-) 

Where has anyone said they want to tell kids it's "ok if they make that decision, just use a condom???  "   They said the kids who are going to have sex are going to do it if they do or don't have condoms & I don't know where you went to school but this has been the case since the 1950's when my husband was conceived out of wedlock!  At the start of this discussion there was a teen who isn't having sex who told you this very same thing & you just belittled her saying she's "the exception to the rule".  She's is NOT.  If a young couple is going to have sex they are going to have sex & I don't think that going back to the scare tactics of the 1950's of telling young women that sex is dirty is going to fix anything but just scare the heck out of them the way it did back then &/or turn it into even more of a forbidden fruit!   

  

It is true that a rape is more about control than it is sex but if a perpetrator thinks his victim is going to make him ill (as was suggested by the another poster) then you can BET he is going to use a condom & especially if it's provided.  You think girls need to be protected by family members like fathers?  & what are they suppost to do not ever let their daughter out of their sight?  Should they be escorted every where by a male family member like in the middle east?  Are you saying that if a girl goes to work & drives on her own or take public trasnportation at the age of 17 we're sending her into a lion's den?  Never mind the water pistol I wouldn't want to do that if I'd handed her an elephant gun!   We have to prepare them for a world where they aren't always going to be under the protection of the men in their family.  They will be on their own some day & that's as early as the college years where there are many assaults on women.  Are you going to prepare them or limit them by not allowing them to go to college to protect them?      

  

You keep saying abstanience should be what is taught & I'm curious as to what you think they should be told if they're not ever intending on getting married?  I mean are we telling them that sex outside of marriage is wrong?  Not all believe this & this is where the line starts to blurr for people because while no one wants young girls (or boys) having sex some don't feel it's right to tell a young person that if they have sex without being married they're perverted or it's just dirty.   

  

Another poster had pointed out that the European countries are a lot more open about sex education & condoms & that the rate of pregnancy & std's are nothing like here in the states.  Your answer to that is that they're pregnancy rate is lower because of abortion............?  & the sarcastic way you end with  "just curious....." is down right demeaning.  You seem to have all the answers for everything including how pregnancy is the fault of parents who are "working"  because pregnancy often "happens between the hours of 3  -  5"  I think I got that quote right.  so I believe you're speaking of the working moms?  This wouldn't be to make people feel guilt would it?  Is this the compassion that you're taught as a Christian?   You don't think it was just a bit cruel in another post to say "I wonder how many of those babies that died would have survived Hurricane Katrina if their moms had been breastfeeding.  how sad babies died because of no formula!!  I personally think EVERY mom should breastfeed!  but that's just MY opinion "   I mean have you considered there could be a  woman  reading these boards who's lost a baby in the Hurricane & she was bottle feeding?  How would you think this would make her feel good?  Is this the love & compassion you're taught as a Christian?  I had surprise twins & being caught off guard I decided to bottle feed I never considereed myself to be "evil" & there are many mothers of multiple births that bottle feed.  Do you think we're all just horrible because we don't feel physically capable of feeding more than 1?  & even if you do exactly WHO are you to make that judgement?  How dare you judge others for not having breast fed their baby & making them feel bad if their child is dead do to a shortage of food & this not having been an available option!  I consider myself a Christian too & some day when I meet God & I am being judged I know I'll have sinned & sins of the flesh may be there on the list, but I can only hope that when God looks at my life  he sees very little in the way of me being cruel to my fellow man & more when it came to me being helpful & loving.     

This doesn't sound silly to me at all but just sooooooo smart!   I'd actually heard a woman who once just asked her attacker to wear a condom & he did it!  But bullies are usually petrified at being hurt themselves & I'd think telling them you've an STD could really motivate them to use a condom. 

Fighting back is one thing but if this were your daughters you wouldn't want evidence of the attack in place of the knowledge that she/they had even an ounce of protection from pregnancy or HIV as the outcome of the attack.  That is the ultimate punishment of a victim & this has happened & the rapests have actually won parental visitation rights in court after they've served their sentences!  Imagine having to face the attacker & have a relationship with them?  Never mind the ultimate of death to Aids.   

I agree with you about the assault thing, but sometimes girls get date raped or raped by someone they sort-of know. In this instance it's highly unlikely she will prosecute for rape. And most rapes don't bring convictions, unless there is physical evidence like bruises on the girls and scratches on the guy. It's more dangerous to fight back with an attacker because a really violent one may be more prone to kill you if you piss him off. If it were me I would rather try to convince him to use a condom and let him rape me and try to convince him to leave afterwards because I am more afraid of being killed by an attacker than raped. And I would rather deal with emotional scars than get AIDS or get pregnant by a rapist. Also, sometimes these tactics can provide a distraction. Though not always. I don't care if it's kind of like offering your consent. In the first place that is a weak argument. In the second, if the girl survives the attack and goes on to prosecute, if she can say, I had to comply because he had a knife to my throat, it's not likely people will really think she was asking for it by using a condom. I agree in cases like Kobe Bryant where the sex was accused of being nonconsensual but it wasn't violent it might make the woman look worse if she decides to prosecute and has convinced the guy to use a condom. But if there's even a minute chance I were going to be in that situation, if I had a condom on me I would try to get the guy to use it. 

  

http://www.promom.org/101/index.html 

  

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1999/07/19/formula/ 

  

I am just curious, why you don't feel comfortable nursing in public? Is it the fear of being judged by others, or maybe a personal modesty issue? I nurse my son out in the open all the time, when I first started I was more nervous about it but over time I grew less so. I also used some formula until the age of 6 weeks but I feel that breast milk is better. And my son has lots and lots of bonding time and fun time with his dad and other relatives. The time spent feeding is a lot greater when they're younger, but that's not the only way to bond. 

I don't want to come off as judgemental, but before I read the research on all the diseases that are so much higher in formula fed babies I didn't really think the way I do now. For me formula isn't an option any more. It doesn't matter to me if it is hard or if I have to show my boobies or if I get sore nipples or mastitis, I will breastfeed my babies until they wean themselves and unless I am hospitalized or dead I will never allow another drop of formula to touch their tongues. I know some women don't feel this way, and I just wish there were more women out there who understood that formula is nowhere near as healthy as breast milk, which is about the healthiest food you can find on Earth. Why would you willingly feed a bottle of formula to your baby when you're otherwise successful at nursing? I don't get it. 

There's a great list of 101 reasons to breastfeed, and an article which cites all the various studies about increased rates of death and serious illness in babies, called "Formula For Disaster" on salon.com (the references are all on www dot promom dot org).  

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1999/07/19/formula/ 

http://www.promom.org/101/index.html 

To me this is not about causing guilt or making enemies, it's about promoting health of babies, moms, and our nation. Currently breastfeeding goals set by the government (Healthy People 2010) are for all states to have at least half of new moms breastfeeding by 6 months, but only six states have achieved this, and only Oregon has achieved at least 50% of moms BFing EXCLUSIVELY by six months. The reason they set these goals? Because our health as a nation is going down the tubes, and serious diseases like diabetes, obesity, cancer, pneumonia, that are prevented and lowered in breastfeeders and breastfed babies, are on the rise. Breastfeeding rates have been going down over the last several decades for a variety of reasons, none of which should have anything to do with the idea that bottle feeding is better for bonding with dad. That to me is pretty sad. Isn't it better for the baby to get the best food, and then go cuddle his dad afterwards? This is a really important issue, not just a personal issue of choice but an important public health issue. NOt to mention, supplemental bottle feeding of formula lowers your supply and it is highly unlikely you will be able to nurse for the full year or longer that is recommended if you make bottle feeding routine and do it often. 

One of the major reasons I set out to be a long-term nurser (past the AAP 1 year mark) was from reading the literature that says the WHO recommends it for 2 years AT LEAST. Also for every 2 years you breastfeed you lower your risk of getting breast cancer by 25%. With my already high risk of getting it because of fibrocystic breast disease, and my grandmother having died from it, this is as much a personal choice for my own health as it is for my son. 

To the person who dogged the pro-baby pro-breastfeeding message, don't YOU think it IS sad that babies DID starve and suffer increased disease BECAUSE they were formula fed? These women did not ask for the hurricane, and they did not ask for the lack of food, clean water, and help. But it is one of the advantages of breastfeeding that the food is ALWAYS plentiful, clean, and at just the right temperature. It protects babies from extremely harmful diseases that can hurt the formula babies because formula offers little to no immunity protection. 

To try and turn this around on the person who was only pointing out the DISADVANTAGE of being a formula baby, of the possibility of starvation, malnutrition and disease is to completely ignore the truth. This has been the leading reason why people boycott companies who market formula in the third world, because it is almost impossible to make sure formula feeding is safe when there's no clean water, energy to heat the bottles in boiling water for sterilizing, etc etc etc. AND why some poor babies whose moms feed them formula starve because they can't afford to buy it and it gets watered down. 

We are not immune to these dangers of formula brought on by natural disaster any more than we are to a terrorist attack. A breastfed baby has every advantage a mother can offer as long as he is with his mommy. Take away the mommy or her ability to make milk by unnecessary and gratuitous formula pushing, especially in the early days when milk supply is being established, and you risk the baby's health, safety and very survival.