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Topic : 10/07 The Latest Debates

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Created on : Friday, September 30, 2005, 03:40:18 pm
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Dr. Phil and his guests strike up heated conversations as they debate the latest hot topics. Should women give up their right to breastfeed their babies in public so other people don't feel uncomfortable? Will passing out condoms in schools prevent unwanted pregnancies or just send the message to kids that it's OK to have sex? And, is it acceptable for others to discipline your kids if they see them acting out in public, or should they just mind their own business? Dr. Phil weighs in on these controversial subjects. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

 

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October 6, 2005, 7:17 am PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Should mother’s give up the right to nurse in public to make others more comfortable? 

  

No, they should not. Why when a mother is able to do their best for their child. If someone is uncomfortable then they shouldn’t look. There is no problem with women going to a store in their bathing suit. You see far less with a nursing mother. At most you may see a small piece of the side of her belly. When I was a teenager (late 80’s) I saw a woman asked to leave a restaurant in Virginia. The reason was because she didn’t want to take her infant to the restroom to nurse. The woman and infant was fully covered.  

  

I now live in a college town. It is becoming the normal for the new mothers to nurse in public. They are having no problems. The babies aren’t lifting the tops and the mother’s aren’t exposing themselves. They aren’t running to a restroom to nurse their infants. If you don’t know what you are looking at. You can’t even tell they are nursing a baby on a bench in the local malls. 

  

Should schools pass out condoms? 

  

No they should not. Sex education should be taught at home. Condoms will not stop full the risk of AIDS, STDs and pregnancy. The only thing that will is abstinence. Children develop emotional, physically different. Only the parents truly know their children. That is why an open line of communication is so important.  

  

Is it ok for another to disciple your children in public? 

  

No, it is not. If you have raised your children properly. You shouldn’t have a public issue where another may want to step in. You may have them upset they can’t have candy. But that is the worse thing. You have to set rules that aren’t changed daily. Set the rules and leave them the same. Children need discipline.  

I have seen children that need rules. Sure I want to step in. But I know it isn’t my place.  

 
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October 6, 2005, 7:23 am PDT

How dare you

Quote From: mommy_two

This whole topic has me really upset, everyday I try to help women breastfeed and everywhere I go I promote that breast is best. My breastfeeding mom's say they have been given dirty looks and told to go to the bathroom to feed their babies, when in public.   I hate that it is being debated on weather we should nurse our babies in public.  Here is an update for all you mom's who formula fed by choice, our breasts produce milk as soon as your placenta is delivered because that is what breasts are for.  I don't understand why we as women, carry our babies in our wombs for 9 months and then as soon as the baby is here you think your job is done.  It is our job to make sure our babies are as healthy as they can be. Breastfeeding is the only true way to feed a human baby.     For all those mothers who chose to formula feed because they couldn't fulfill their duties, I feel sorry that you didn't get to have the experience that all of us nursing mothers had.  As for nursing your baby,toddler, older child, I think that if your child was hungry you would feed them, no matter where you are.  I think it is sad that so many women think that formula is equal to breast milk.   To all my breastfeeding peer's keep encouraging, fighting and loving your babies.  Oh and by the way your breast milk changes to meet the needs of your growing child, so breast milk is beneficial at any age.  I wish that all mom's would breastfeed, then when we are faced with natural disasters, like the hurricanes, we will not have to worry about our babies starvin, just a thought!

It's replies like yours that have me upset!  "Here is an update for all you mom's who formula fed by choice,"  How condesending and insulting is that?  If that isn't bad enough you go on to ass u me you know what people are thinking when making the choice to bottle feed or breast feed!  "as soon as the baby is here you think your job is done."  and of course the insinuation is that mothers who are bottle feeding  have this  reckless abandon attitude & we're not as serious about making certain our babies are healthy!  Again I say you don't know what you're talking about!   

  

And when you try to have empathy for those who "chose formula"  & yet are saying they are inferior & unable to fulfill their duties   I just cannot believe your gall! "For all those mothers who chose to formula feed because they couldn't fulfill their duties, I feel sorry that you didn't get to have the experience that all of us nursing mothers had. "  How insensitive can you be?   

  

I loved the idea of breast feeding & had wanted to prior to my sons birth (I won't get into the reason I didn't) but I will say that I had many friends who'd breast fed their babies & they never judged me or anyone who didn't as harshly as you do!  I'd gone to help during the initial stages when they were settling into their feeding routines & the babies were being taught to eat.  Being friends they of course where there to help me when I'd brought home my twin sons & never did they try to make me feel less of a mother because of my decision.   

  

My twins sons are now 22 yrs. old.  They're happy, healthy & while you feel that breast feeding is the "only true way to feed a baby" I can assure that what I was doing was indeed FEEDING them & nurturing in every sense of the word!  How dare you suggest any different.  You've no idea why the decision to breast feed is or isn't made & how could you unless you know all women & they're reasons?  I could sit here & give the reasons why I decided to bottle feed but that's unimportant & more than likely would fall on deaf ears because you're already outraged at anyone who doesn't breast feed.  This is clearly why you'd be cruel enough to point out the babies who may have starved during the after math of the hurricane because they're bottle fed babies.  Shame on you! 

  

As far as debating I LOVE the idea of debating it because any discussion will inspire communication & understanding rather than more damning of people who don't understand.  Bringing to light how this makes people feel when they're told to go to the bathroom to feed their baby will shine a light for those who hadn't seen it this way!  You're an educator who doesn't know this?   

 
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October 6, 2005, 7:49 am PDT

anger and guilt

Quote From: momakababe

It's replies like yours that have me upset!  "Here is an update for all you mom's who formula fed by choice,"  How condesending and insulting is that?  If that isn't bad enough you go on to ass u me you know what people are thinking when making the choice to bottle feed or breast feed!  "as soon as the baby is here you think your job is done."  and of course the insinuation is that mothers who are bottle feeding  have this  reckless abandon attitude & we're not as serious about making certain our babies are healthy!  Again I say you don't know what you're talking about!   

  

And when you try to have empathy for those who "chose formula"  & yet are saying they are inferior & unable to fulfill their duties   I just cannot believe your gall! "For all those mothers who chose to formula feed because they couldn't fulfill their duties, I feel sorry that you didn't get to have the experience that all of us nursing mothers had. "  How insensitive can you be?   

  

I loved the idea of breast feeding & had wanted to prior to my sons birth (I won't get into the reason I didn't) but I will say that I had many friends who'd breast fed their babies & they never judged me or anyone who didn't as harshly as you do!  I'd gone to help during the initial stages when they were settling into their feeding routines & the babies were being taught to eat.  Being friends they of course where there to help me when I'd brought home my twin sons & never did they try to make me feel less of a mother because of my decision.   

  

My twins sons are now 22 yrs. old.  They're happy, healthy & while you feel that breast feeding is the "only true way to feed a baby" I can assure that what I was doing was indeed FEEDING them & nurturing in every sense of the word!  How dare you suggest any different.  You've no idea why the decision to breast feed is or isn't made & how could you unless you know all women & they're reasons?  I could sit here & give the reasons why I decided to bottle feed but that's unimportant & more than likely would fall on deaf ears because you're already outraged at anyone who doesn't breast feed.  This is clearly why you'd be cruel enough to point out the babies who may have starved during the after math of the hurricane because they're bottle fed babies.  Shame on you! 

  

As far as debating I LOVE the idea of debating it because any discussion will inspire communication & understanding rather than more damning of people who don't understand.  Bringing to light how this makes people feel when they're told to go to the bathroom to feed their baby will shine a light for those who hadn't seen it this way!  You're an educator who doesn't know this?   

Some mothers feel guilty when they cannot breastfeed. I wish they would feel angry and not guilty. While true that some mothers will not be able to exclusively breastfeed their babies, the most common problems are not the mothers fault. Mothers should be angry at: outdated hospital routines based on bottle feeding, uneducated doctors and nurses, well-meaning but misinformed friends and family, misleading "information" from companies that have a financial interest in a mothers failure to breastfeed. All these society complications make breastfeeding difficult, even impossible for some mothers and babies. Educate yourself and your family. http://pregnancy.about.com/cs/breastfeedinginfo/a/aanho1.htm http://www.LaLecheLeague.org http://breastfeeding.com http://promom.org http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/breastfeeding/
 
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October 6, 2005, 8:00 am PDT

ProMoM.org

I wonder if moms out there have heard of the non-profit group: ProMoM.orgThey have lots of tips and articles on nursing in public... go to: http://www.promom.org/nno/and then scroll down to "reading room"There are lots of view points from moms who want to cover up and be discreet and also from moms who "just do it". :)
 
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October 6, 2005, 8:18 am PDT

are you speaking to me in this post?

Quote From: badtrip

http://www.promom.org/101/index.html 

  

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1999/07/19/formula/ 

  

I am just curious, why you don't feel comfortable nursing in public? Is it the fear of being judged by others, or maybe a personal modesty issue? I nurse my son out in the open all the time, when I first started I was more nervous about it but over time I grew less so. I also used some formula until the age of 6 weeks but I feel that breast milk is better. And my son has lots and lots of bonding time and fun time with his dad and other relatives. The time spent feeding is a lot greater when they're younger, but that's not the only way to bond. 

I don't want to come off as judgemental, but before I read the research on all the diseases that are so much higher in formula fed babies I didn't really think the way I do now. For me formula isn't an option any more. It doesn't matter to me if it is hard or if I have to show my boobies or if I get sore nipples or mastitis, I will breastfeed my babies until they wean themselves and unless I am hospitalized or dead I will never allow another drop of formula to touch their tongues. I know some women don't feel this way, and I just wish there were more women out there who understood that formula is nowhere near as healthy as breast milk, which is about the healthiest food you can find on Earth. Why would you willingly feed a bottle of formula to your baby when you're otherwise successful at nursing? I don't get it. 

There's a great list of 101 reasons to breastfeed, and an article which cites all the various studies about increased rates of death and serious illness in babies, called "Formula For Disaster" on salon.com (the references are all on www dot promom dot org).  

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1999/07/19/formula/ 

http://www.promom.org/101/index.html 

To me this is not about causing guilt or making enemies, it's about promoting health of babies, moms, and our nation. Currently breastfeeding goals set by the government (Healthy People 2010) are for all states to have at least half of new moms breastfeeding by 6 months, but only six states have achieved this, and only Oregon has achieved at least 50% of moms BFing EXCLUSIVELY by six months. The reason they set these goals? Because our health as a nation is going down the tubes, and serious diseases like diabetes, obesity, cancer, pneumonia, that are prevented and lowered in breastfeeders and breastfed babies, are on the rise. Breastfeeding rates have been going down over the last several decades for a variety of reasons, none of which should have anything to do with the idea that bottle feeding is better for bonding with dad. That to me is pretty sad. Isn't it better for the baby to get the best food, and then go cuddle his dad afterwards? This is a really important issue, not just a personal issue of choice but an important public health issue. NOt to mention, supplemental bottle feeding of formula lowers your supply and it is highly unlikely you will be able to nurse for the full year or longer that is recommended if you make bottle feeding routine and do it often. 

One of the major reasons I set out to be a long-term nurser (past the AAP 1 year mark) was from reading the literature that says the WHO recommends it for 2 years AT LEAST. Also for every 2 years you breastfeed you lower your risk of getting breast cancer by 25%. With my already high risk of getting it because of fibrocystic breast disease, and my grandmother having died from it, this is as much a personal choice for my own health as it is for my son. 

To the person who dogged the pro-baby pro-breastfeeding message, don't YOU think it IS sad that babies DID starve and suffer increased disease BECAUSE they were formula fed? These women did not ask for the hurricane, and they did not ask for the lack of food, clean water, and help. But it is one of the advantages of breastfeeding that the food is ALWAYS plentiful, clean, and at just the right temperature. It protects babies from extremely harmful diseases that can hurt the formula babies because formula offers little to no immunity protection. 

To try and turn this around on the person who was only pointing out the DISADVANTAGE of being a formula baby, of the possibility of starvation, malnutrition and disease is to completely ignore the truth. This has been the leading reason why people boycott companies who market formula in the third world, because it is almost impossible to make sure formula feeding is safe when there's no clean water, energy to heat the bottles in boiling water for sterilizing, etc etc etc. AND why some poor babies whose moms feed them formula starve because they can't afford to buy it and it gets watered down. 

We are not immune to these dangers of formula brought on by natural disaster any more than we are to a terrorist attack. A breastfed baby has every advantage a mother can offer as long as he is with his mommy. Take away the mommy or her ability to make milk by unnecessary and gratuitous formula pushing, especially in the early days when milk supply is being established, and you risk the baby's health, safety and very survival. 

I didn't "dogg" anyone I stated a simple fact I it is CRUEL to make those who bottle fed their babies feel responsible for the death of their children.  Does it not occur to you that they're reading these boards?  Is this you're way of comforting them too?  & I'll add that I think it is CRUEL to suggest that mothers of bottle fed babies are just recklessly leaving them at risk.   I'm not sticking my head in the sand or ignoring what the reality of things are.  To say that breast milk is always fresh, and  always available even in a disaster is enough to survice don't you think?!  We can also go on to say all of the wonderful things that we give our babies when breast feeding with out adding "AND why some poor babies whose moms feed them formula starve"  well aren't they just abusive?  This is what it sounds like you're implying & we don't have to get mean do we?  You say you don't want to come off as judgemental but that's exactly how you come off.  You sound as thought this is "as much a personal choice for myself as for my son"  and if others make a personal choice for themselves that doesn't fit your criteria of what is correct they are somhow irresponsible!  Even a parent who's breast feeding & supplementing you have to try to make feel bad about her choice because it's not what you decided &/or as good as your decision?  We're not all as perfect as you honey and yes this has everything to do with making others feel guilt.  I mean after all they're not trying to "promote health in babies and moms" so I guess the rest of us are not?   

  

I don't need to read the research I'd done that long ago & life does not always follow the "research"  I'm not going to sit here & argue the points of pro & con to breast feeding.  This would serve no purpose but to upset people but just the same you don't need to make those who are not breast feeding feel inferior & do it in such a mean spirited way.       

 
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October 6, 2005, 8:26 am PDT

ctheys I do not feel guilty I did what was right for me

Quote From: ctheys

Some mothers feel guilty when they cannot breastfeed. I wish they would feel angry and not guilty. While true that some mothers will not be able to exclusively breastfeed their babies, the most common problems are not the mothers fault. Mothers should be angry at: outdated hospital routines based on bottle feeding, uneducated doctors and nurses, well-meaning but misinformed friends and family, misleading "information" from companies that have a financial interest in a mothers failure to breastfeed. All these society complications make breastfeeding difficult, even impossible for some mothers and babies. Educate yourself and your family. http://pregnancy.about.com/cs/breastfeedinginfo/a/aanho1.htm http://www.LaLecheLeague.org http://breastfeeding.com http://promom.org http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/breastfeeding/

and I'm not angry that I wasn't able to breast feed.  Imade the choice based on REASONS.  To tell me to "educate yourself"implies I made a dicision that wasn't thought out & researched &/or an uniformed decision.  It also implied that I was duped by many who didn't want to see me succeed at nursing.  It's implying that to do anything different thanwhay you'd done is to be just uneducated & making an uniformed decision that I get angry with & the condesending ring there is to the posts.  I might seem the same to you if I were to ask you if you'd had a problem comprehending what I'd said in the post you'd replied to.  Or if I asked if you'd even read it?   

  

I don't need to "educate" myself on the subject.  I've not only done the reading but I've years of experience behind me with many people around me who've experiences too.  That's the glory of age is that we've got *experience* as well as the research to back up what we're saying.   

 
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October 6, 2005, 8:35 am PDT

Breastfeeding in Public/

This topic is one more women should be weighing in on! Breastfeeding in public, come on, how is that any worse than some of the cleavage I have to see on a daily basis at the grocery store, gas station, mall etc. I am a mother to 3 children, all of which were breastfed. I got braver with each child nursing in public. I was discreet as most women I see nursing in public. I truly have a sense of pride when I see others nursing in public, YOU GO GIRLS! Our children deserve to be fed, and not in bathrooms. You don't need gadgets to cover up, a simple receiving blanket will do. You see less skin nursing, again that what you see on TV any night of the week. To me this is a MOOT point, BABIES WERE MEANT TO BE BREASTFED! If other individuals have a problem with it, find some place else to sit, look, etc. Move on, we have more important problems in this nation than breastfeeding in public!
 
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October 6, 2005, 8:38 am PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: missjane2

I breastfed one of my 4 kids for 12 months.  The others I didn't.  I really don't remember breastfeeding in public.  Although it doesn't bother me to see a mom breastfeed her baby WITHOUT TEETH in public.  What would be an interesting subject is talking to mom's who breastfeed their older children.....??????  Kindergarden?  And that's not funny, but they have that Le Leche Club thing and some woman either culturally or for whatever reason go beyond what is necessarily.  At least in my opinion.  Anyone else ever hear of this?
I also just understand what teeth has to do with anything! My daughter got teeth early...4 months old...does that mean I should stop breastfeeding her? I certainly don't think so. As others have pointed out ther benefits of breastfeeding never end. Not only does the American Academy of Pediatrics recomend BF until AT LEAST 12 monthes, the World Health Organization recommends BF until AT LEAST 2 years. American's have set up a stitgma about BF and it is amazing to me that more people don't give their children gift of mother's milk. When there are so many issues in parenting that are debatable, BF is the one thing we KNOW for fact is the best thing we can give our children for nurishment. I am also a proud member of La Leche League, I BF in public and never think twice about it. In addition to nursing my 6 month old daughter when ever she is hungry no matter where we happen to be, my 3 year old son still nurses when he goes to sleep and when he is injured. I am greatful that I can provide both of my children with nurishment and a lot of comfort.
 
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October 6, 2005, 8:38 am PDT

please don't let anyone make you feel bad for your decisions

Quote From: mandyjuss

I have a 5 month old precious little girl. I had decided to nurse and supplement with formula (this way my husband and my 11 and 14 yr. olds can feed and bond with her as well). I do what I feel is right. When I have to go anywhere, I carry a bottle with me. If I am in a Dept. store and feel it is time to nurse, I will go in a dressing room (I have a problem with going to a restroom for that). I have nursed in the back seat of my van - it has tinted windows, with the vehicle running and the air conditioner on. Other times I give her a bottle. This way she gets the best of both worlds. 

I know everyone has their own opinion, but I go with my own personal convictions and what I feel like is right.  I personally would not feel comfortable nursing in public. "But that's just me."  :-) 

or for supplimenting feedings. 
Again you need to do what is right for you &
please don't allow others to make you feel as though you're
"formula pushing".  We all have our reasons for doing things &
it's becuase it's what works for us. 
I'm sure having an 11 & a 14 yr.old you already know this but this isn't the first time people are going to question your decisions.  Many people are going to point out all of the mistakes
you're making over the years as you parent & yet it's your child &
you're life & you need to do what you think is right & what is right for you as a
mother & child.  There's plenty of "research" that over the years changes & we're left wondering why we'd ever bought into a certain idea to begin with. 
To sit here & point to the disadvantages of breast feeding would be to do the same as
those that are pointing out the disadvantages of or what's not right with bottle feeding. 
To make people feel bad about their choices isn't going to help anyone & in the end they're
only trying to re-enforce their own parenting decision. You are breast feeding & your baby is
being giving immunities & protection.  As you said & I'm sure you're right your baby girl is getting the best of both worlds & it sounds as though she's loved & dotted on in every way by her mother, father & siblings.  There's nothing wrong with your parenting & don't let anyone tell you any different. 
 
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October 6, 2005, 8:44 am PDT

Condoms in schools

Please, if more parents discussed sex with their kids, and had open lines of communication then maybe this too would not be such an issue. I have 3 children, one of which is fast approaching puberty. We have already been talking about changes that he will face. Yes, a mother and a son can talk about sex/sexuality. I want my children to know that they can always come and talk to me and their dad. It is a tough pill to swallow, but they may also choose to have sex before they are married. I would rather them be safe from disease and unplanned pregnancies. In our shcool system, condoms and sex ed are a hotly debated topic, the folks that make the decisions must have missed the number of pregnant teens in our very small and rural county in NC. Wake up and smell the coffee, someone has to be available to these children, they need sex ed and condoms available. For those folks it bothers, my suggestion would be to 1st talk with a teen mom or dad, 2nd examine your own sexuality and relationship with your children. People who live in glass house should not throw rocks.
 
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