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Topic : 10/07 The Latest Debates

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Created on : Friday, September 30, 2005, 03:40:18 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

Dr. Phil and his guests strike up heated conversations as they debate the latest hot topics. Should women give up their right to breastfeed their babies in public so other people don't feel uncomfortable? Will passing out condoms in schools prevent unwanted pregnancies or just send the message to kids that it's OK to have sex? And, is it acceptable for others to discipline your kids if they see them acting out in public, or should they just mind their own business? Dr. Phil weighs in on these controversial subjects. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

 

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October 6, 2005, 2:37 pm PDT

Info

 Here is history on breastfeeding an older child:

Dake's commentary of the Bible suggests that Moses was five years old when he was weaned and ready to start his education in the Egyptian court; Samuel was five years old when we was weaned and taken to the prophet, Eli; Isaac was five years old when he was weaned and they celebrated with a weaning party.

Also paintings of kings and their wet nurses were common(with breasts exposed).

As a mother who is now breastfeeding a 15month old I nurse in public allot. I never to my knowledge exposed myself on purpose and most woman don't. Also my boobs are gawked at weather I have a baby on them or not just the world we live in. "covering" just brings more attention. Going to the bathroom well how would you like to eat your dinner on the toilet in a public restroom. I've only had comments made when strangers lean in and invade my space.




 
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October 6, 2005, 2:38 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

I see nothing wrong with nursing in public. I have a 3 month old and I breastfeed him whenever he is hungry, no matter where we are at. Some people say, why not just use a bottle when your not at home, not all babies take bottles. I don't see going into the bathroom to feed my child as an option. I don't take my food into the bathroom to eat so why should he? I pray for the day when we as women can "pop the boob" whenever or wherever we are and not have to worry about offending anyone!
 
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October 6, 2005, 2:48 pm PDT

More info

Quote From: nicole984

i have my on boobies to look at, and thats enough for me. i never said anything about keeping my self pure, and who are you to say what god would say on this matter... i'd love for you to show me in the bible where it says, breastfeed your child for all to see. thats irrelevant anyway. obviously you got offended by what i said, and i dont care, it was my opinion to express. but seeing your maturity by calling me ridiculous and questioning my intelligence really drives your point home. you must be an excellent mother. 

Here is some info you asked for.

www.new-life.net/feeding.htm

I'm not Christian but thought this might help people feel like it was less of a decency issue.
 
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October 6, 2005, 2:53 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: bmw2002

I see nothing wrong with nursing in public. I have a 3 month old and I breastfeed him whenever he is hungry, no matter where we are at. Some people say, why not just use a bottle when your not at home, not all babies take bottles. I don't see going into the bathroom to feed my child as an option. I don't take my food into the bathroom to eat so why should he? I pray for the day when we as women can "pop the boob" whenever or wherever we are and not have to worry about offending anyone!

I do that all the time. Sometimes I am able to be modest but I don't worry about it if I am wearing something that doesn't work as well for modesty. Mainly I don't care if people see my boob, the nipple is usualy in the baby's mouth anyway, but I try to make sure nobody sees my flabby, rolly poly stretch marked pillsbury dough boy consistency tummy. So I wear stuff I can tuck around the boob and pull down all the way down my waist. You do have the right to pop your boob out and nobody can stop you! See my post with links on laws by state. It is illegal in the US to tell a woman to cover up or go somewhere private. 

It is your right to feed your baby wherever you are allowed to be. 

By the way, you SHOULD NOT use a bottle if you are nursing. This will cut down on your supply. If you use your own expressed breast milk it's not as bad for supply, but still while you are out it cuts down on the demand to your body and it can end in mastitis, a really painful infection that can cause fever, among other things, just like a bad UTI would. Also bottle nipples cause orthodontic problems and bottle babies need to get braces a lot more often than nursed babies.  

  

 
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October 6, 2005, 2:54 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: jordyn83

I am sort of sitting on the fence for this one.  

On one hand it is a very natural thing; a way to for a mother and child to develope a bond that will last a lifetime (or is it life time?). But I must admit that a few weeks ago, I saw a woman breastfeeding at the public swimming pool, and it bothered me. Is that hygenic? I didnt enjoy seeing her just take out her breast and begin her babie's feeding.  

When my baby is born I will breastfeed, but I will not do it in public. I do not want people staring at me. It is not any of thier business, but I respect women who can do it, and not be bothered by the amount of people examining her, and probably judging her. 

 I understand how you feel.  When I was pregnant with my daughter, the thought of being out in public and my baby getting hungry terrified me!  I'm a very shy and "personal" person.  I couldn't even imagine having anyone look at me breastfeeding!  However, it IS different once you have the baby.  I think it took me a few weeks to get used to the idea, although I WOULD NOT breastfeed in the pool setting that you were describing.  I always cover up so that my breasts aren't exposed.  I just don't feel comfortable with everyone seeing my breasts.  Don't worry, you'll find something that works for you because believe me, once your baby is born, it will be impossible NOT to breastfeed out in public.  (I sometimes have to go leave the store and go out in my van in the parking lot to breastfeed, but it's still in public...it can't be avoided unless you plan on never going out with your new baby, and lets face it, we all want to show off our beautiful new babies!)
 
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October 6, 2005, 2:57 pm PDT

pop the boob

Quote From: bmw2002

I see nothing wrong with nursing in public. I have a 3 month old and I breastfeed him whenever he is hungry, no matter where we are at. Some people say, why not just use a bottle when your not at home, not all babies take bottles. I don't see going into the bathroom to feed my child as an option. I don't take my food into the bathroom to eat so why should he? I pray for the day when we as women can "pop the boob" whenever or wherever we are and not have to worry about offending anyone!
 I breastfed my child for 3 1/2 years. I didn't have a problem with breastfeeding him in public except I do remember being at a birthday party and the host's husband was aghast. He didn't say anything to me verbally but his body language was a billboard sign. When I see other mothers breastfeeding their child in public I compliment them. Seeing a mother covering her baby with a blanket while it breastfeeds actually makes me feel badly that something so natural has to be covered up for fear of offending someone. Babies eating is offensive? I'd like everyone who is offended by seeing a woman breastfeed her baby and look at themselves in the mirror and say "I am offended by babies eating." Say it until you finally get it that you look ridiculous for admitting it. Put a blanket over YOUR face when you go out in public for having such ignorant beliefs!
 
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October 6, 2005, 3:07 pm PDT

Women and Breastfeeding

You ladies are making some good points and I agree with all of you who feel that anyone should be able to breastfeed any time they wish.  Everyone knows (or should know) about all the benefits to the baby that breastfeeding offers.  i.e., lowered chance of diabetes, healthier teeth, higher IQ, lowered risk of obesity, fewer childhood illnesses, etc.  And no one please argue these points because they are SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN.  However, I haven't seen anyone mention the benefits to mom.  A woman who breastfeeds for a lifetime total of 7 years has virtually a ZERO risk of developing breast cancer.  (This information came from Women, Infants, and Children, a national organization)  Isn't that amazing?! The American Academy of Pediatrics has finally caught up with the rest of the world and increased their suggestion for breastfeeding from one year to two years.  And it is proven that after that amount of time, the benefits to the baby do not stop.  They never stop!  Every day that a child is breastfed, is beneficial to both the child and the mother.  I feel that a little over two years is enough for me, but more power to anyone who wants to keep it up!  I breastfed my first until the second trimester of my second pregnancy (he was 19 months old then) when I caved to the pressure of friends and family and weaned him.   

  

I will breastfeed my daughter until WE decide we're finished.  And I will nurse her anywhere that she decides she's hungry.  It's very easy to be modest and like alot of you have said, most people don't even know I'm doing it.  But I love it when someone makes a comment (good, bad, or otherwise) and I get the opportunity to talk about it.  We need to get the word out!  So many people are uneducated about this subject.  One last question, and I'd love a response.  Why does it seem that it's mostly women that are offended my another woman's breast being inadvertantly exposed in public?  We've all got them.  And I don't think any men are getting turned on by a woman breastfeeding her baby, so I don't think that's the reason.  Has anyone else noticed this, or is it just me? 

 
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October 6, 2005, 3:19 pm PDT

Wow!

Quote From: piggie

Here is some info you asked for.

www.new-life.net/feeding.htm

I'm not Christian but thought this might help people feel like it was less of a decency issue.
I never knew breastfeeding was mentioned so many times in the Bible.  (apparently some other people didn't either! Surprise!) I advocate nursing anytime it comes up, and I'm so glad to have this info.  Thanks!
 
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October 6, 2005, 3:28 pm PDT

ok

Quote From: badtrip

I do think I'm a good mother. Your comparison of nursing to giving birth in a parking lot IS ridiculous. Have fun looking at your boobies. By the way, you chose not to answer the question I asked. Do you think nursing moms should be shunned by society? 

  

"BREASTFEEDING LEGISLATION: AN OVERVIEW

In the United States, breastfeeding legislation has been enacted nearly one-third of the states over the past six years, and many more states have pending bills. This article gives some pointers on enacting legislation.  

THE CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT TO BREASTFEED

In looking at legislation, first look at the language of the case of Dike v. Orange County School Board, 650 F.2d 783 (5th Cir., 1981) . This case sets forth that mothers have a constitutional right to breastfeed. In that case, a teacher wanted to nurse her baby on her duty free lunch break. The school claimed that insurance provisions prohibited teachers from bringing their children onto school property, and also prohibited teachers from leaving the school grounds during the day. The trial court ruled that the mother had no right to breastfeed. In Dike, the appeals court reversed the case and remanded it for a new trial, stating that breastfeeding is a protected constitutional right. "Breastfeeding is the most elemental form of parental care. It is a communion between mother and child that, like marriage, is "intimate to the degree of being sacred," Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. at 486, 85 S. Ct. at 1682, 14 L. Ed. 2d at 516. Nourishment is necessary to maintain the child's life, and the parent may choose to believe that breastfeeding will enhance the child's psychological as well as physical health. In light of the spectrum of interests that the Supreme Court has held specially protected we conclude that the Constitution protects from excessive state interference a woman's decision respecting breastfeeding her child." 650 F.2d at 787  

Constitutional rights are not absolute, and often collide with legitimate, recognized interests. Sometimes the courts must balance individual rights with state interests. In the Dike case, the trial court determined that the state had a legitimate interest in restricting the teacher's comings and goings because of certain school policies . Although the appellate court ruled that mothers have a constitutional right to breastfeed, Mrs. Dike did not have the right to leave school to go home and nurse her baby, or to bring her baby on to school grounds. Keep in mind that this constitutional right may not apply to a mother who is breastfeeding in a private location, such as a store or restaurant. And although there are some other legal theories upon which the right to breastfeed can be based (discrimination laws, equal protection, etc.), breastfeeding legislation is the best way to clarify the right that women have - to feed their babies where they do.  

RESTRICTIONS ON THE RIGHT TO BREASTFEED

Can states restrict the right to breastfeed? We think not! Women have a constitutional right to breastfeed, and no one has the right to discriminate or segregate against breastfeeding mothers. However, some states initially considered limiting a mother's right to breastfeed, while considering legislation that would clarify a mother's right to breastfeed in public. For instance, New Jersey's Assembly initially passed an amendment to their bill that would allow mothers to breastfeed in public only if there was no designated area for them to go. This amendment was rejected by the NJ Senate, and caused quite an outcry from the public and press. This is why the City of Philadelphia enacted an Ordinance that not only prohibited discriminating against breastfeeding mothers, but expressly prohibited segregating breastfeeding mothers. (Amending Section 9-1105 of the Fair Practices Code, 1996). They felt strongly that it is segregation to tell a mother that she has to go to a certain place or area to breastfeed. Some other states considered requiring a mother to breastfeed discreetly. However, this legislation restricts the right mothers already have, and would impose an arbitrary and subjective standard on breastfeeding. The purpose of legislation is to clarify the mother's right, in the hopes that it will increase the incidence and duration of breastfeeding. Restrictions would defeat the entire purpose of breastfeeding legislation, and could deter a mother from making this healthy choice! " 

  

Source,  http://www.lalecheleague.org/Law/LawEnact.html you can go to the website and look up laws in your state as well. 

  

Here is a link to references about breastfeeding in the Bible. 

http://www.texas-midwife.com/breastfeeding.htm#metaphor   "...breastfeeding was a fact of life in Bible times. It was so common to the culture of the Bible lands that the image of a nursing mother influenced even idiomatic expressions and figures of speech. In fact, I'll take that conclusion one step further. Breastfeeding was an everyday, common occurrence in Biblical times because it is God's design for nourishing an infant. He who created mankind as male and female designed them to procreate (Genesis 1:27-28). And in order to nourish and nurture the children born from the union of man and woman, our Creator designed the female anatomy for breastfeeding an infant. As the patriarch Jacob put it in Genesis 49:25, it is "the Almighty who blesses [us with...the blessings of the breasts and of the womb."

the giving birth in public comment was a joke... i see that obviously flew over your head, b/c you take everything way to seriously.b/c your showing me legislatures, that im not going to read. i did answer you question,maybe you should read it again, but since i see you have a habit of missing things, ill say it again. its simply my opinion. im not going to tell a woman to go somewhere else and feed her baby. i personally dont like to see it, thats all, i figured that woman would want to know another perspective.  As far as the bible... again... if you read what i wrote before, i said where in the bible it says to breastfeed in public?, not in general. obviously some woman need to breast feed. .. i dont think its indecent and yes, you are a very informative mother at that, so if you child makes a comment that  you feel is wrong, do you belittle them and hand them a bunch of information to try prove them that your right, too? or do you just do that to strangers? 

 
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October 6, 2005, 3:36 pm PDT

GO Breastfeeding moms!!

Quote From: siap1213

You ladies are making some good points and I agree with all of you who feel that anyone should be able to breastfeed any time they wish.  Everyone knows (or should know) about all the benefits to the baby that breastfeeding offers.  i.e., lowered chance of diabetes, healthier teeth, higher IQ, lowered risk of obesity, fewer childhood illnesses, etc.  And no one please argue these points because they are SCIENTIFICALLY PROVEN.  However, I haven't seen anyone mention the benefits to mom.  A woman who breastfeeds for a lifetime total of 7 years has virtually a ZERO risk of developing breast cancer.  (This information came from Women, Infants, and Children, a national organization)  Isn't that amazing?! The American Academy of Pediatrics has finally caught up with the rest of the world and increased their suggestion for breastfeeding from one year to two years.  And it is proven that after that amount of time, the benefits to the baby do not stop.  They never stop!  Every day that a child is breastfed, is beneficial to both the child and the mother.  I feel that a little over two years is enough for me, but more power to anyone who wants to keep it up!  I breastfed my first until the second trimester of my second pregnancy (he was 19 months old then) when I caved to the pressure of friends and family and weaned him.   

  

I will breastfeed my daughter until WE decide we're finished.  And I will nurse her anywhere that she decides she's hungry.  It's very easy to be modest and like alot of you have said, most people don't even know I'm doing it.  But I love it when someone makes a comment (good, bad, or otherwise) and I get the opportunity to talk about it.  We need to get the word out!  So many people are uneducated about this subject.  One last question, and I'd love a response.  Why does it seem that it's mostly women that are offended my another woman's breast being inadvertantly exposed in public?  We've all got them.  And I don't think any men are getting turned on by a woman breastfeeding her baby, so I don't think that's the reason.  Has anyone else noticed this, or is it just me? 

In answer to your question, I'd much rather see a mom breastfeeding her baby in public, than to see women on the red carpet with their breasts hanging out and calling it "fashion."  now THAT's indecent.  what about those women that "flash?"  THAT's just downright nasty and tasteless.  why aren't women screaming about all the boobs shown in R rated movies??  I think that is offensive.  don't go see them?  ok,  fine, but don't look when a woman is breast feeding.  it's that simple.  

- and we're supposed to be so liberated... yea right... 

  

also, I haven't seen this mentioned, but BF has been shown to increase the child's IQ by 10 points.  also, it helps mom lose that extra birthweight, 2 more good reasons to breastfeed.  :) 

 
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