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Topic : 10/07 The Latest Debates

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Created on : Friday, September 30, 2005, 03:40:18 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

Dr. Phil and his guests strike up heated conversations as they debate the latest hot topics. Should women give up their right to breastfeed their babies in public so other people don't feel uncomfortable? Will passing out condoms in schools prevent unwanted pregnancies or just send the message to kids that it's OK to have sex? And, is it acceptable for others to discipline your kids if they see them acting out in public, or should they just mind their own business? Dr. Phil weighs in on these controversial subjects. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

 

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October 11, 2005, 12:29 pm PDT

Passing out condoms at school

  

   Dr. Phil,  

     I have a 17 year old daughter.She and I are very close.She has been on birth control pills for 2 years to help control acne that was scarring her face.She is still a virgin .She doesn't like to have her papt tests done.(I don't know of anyone who does like them).Our Dr. is very careful when doing her tests.If my daughter decided to have sex,I would want her to use condoms as well as being on birth control pills, to protect her from diseases.There have been so many girls getting pregnant in our area.There is alot of unprotected sex.I'm sure it's across the U.S. not just our area. If the kids were given condoms at school they would be more apt to use them.Alot of kids have the money to go to Walmart and ,or a pharmacy and buy them but  the embarrassment would stop them . .I don't think kids would have sex just because they were given condoms.Most are already having sex it would just help protect them.It would not make girls give up their virginity,or change their mind to do instead of don't.I think it's a good idea. 

 
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October 11, 2005, 12:30 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: lannister

And breast  milk has NOT been shown to increase intelligence. 


This is what I mean by twisting the data.  


The data showed that, in the population sample tested, breast fed babies had slightly higher measurable IQs than bottle fed babies. 


That doesn't mean the breast milk raised the babies' IQs!! 

  

This is what I hate -- this deliberate lying and twisting. 


All the study showed was that, for that particular set of children, the breast fed babies scored a little higher on IQ tests. 


Now, could it be that breast feeding moms were more likely to spend more tiime with their children, and that moms who have that kind of time to spend at home with their children are more likely to come from more affluent families and have access to better nutrition, better health care and better school systems?  Could it be that more affluent moms in the more affluent suburbs are more likely to be better educated themselves?  All of these factors are also indicators for a higher IQ, so the study NEVER isolated breast milk alone, and the breast milk factor, for all ANYONE can prove beyond a doubt, may just be a coincidence. 


This is why statistics are a bad, bad way to go about spreading information. 

  

  

Okay, studies SUGGEST that breast milk increases intelligence. I guess I didn't choose the best wording. I wasn't trying to say it was proven, and I don't think anyone here is. 

  

While many things can affect the intelligence of a child, those studies are something that parents (future parents) may want to consider. There isn't anything wrong with breastfeeding advocates stating what a study suggested. People can look at the data and make a conclusion for themselves. Just as you have done. 

  

I myself think that the studies may have some merit. Especially when you consider the following...Breastmilk naturally contains DHA, cholesterol, and other fats which are needed for optimal brain growth and development. And if a breastfeeding mother doesn't have enough of those fats in her diet, her breasts will manufacture them...it seems that the body deems them to be rather important. Only in the last few years has DHA been added to some formulas in the US. And formula contains no cholesterol. Combine that with the study and it doesn't seem to be too far fetched to me. 

  

Now, I'll try to get back on topic.... 

 
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October 11, 2005, 12:39 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Personally, i think that breastfeeding is a mothers right as a human being. Her child needs to eat and she should be able to feed him accordingly. Some choose to keep it modest by covering up, or bottling it first, or moving to a different location, but they shouldnt be FORCED to. Some people dont chew with their mouths closed and we think THATS disgusting. Some people show off their underwear or cleavage and we think THAT'S disgusting. Some guys let their nasty chest hair hang out of their shirts and some of us less hairy people think THATS disgusting. Some heavier set people try to wear clothing too small for them and have some excess skin hanging out and some think that THAT is disgusting too. And what if we wanted to raise hell because we're mad that nonbreastfeeders arent giving their children enough nutrtition?? 

Point is, you cannot DISCRIMINATE (and YES, it IS discrimination), against mothers who want to breastfeed just because YOU think its unladylike or disgusting. Call it what you will ~ disgusting, unladylike, indecent exposure: you're being ridiculous. This whole argument is like saying that any of the examples i listed above bother too many people. Its discrimination. I cant believe that in a society where discrimination is SO highlighted and SO DRAMATICALLY emphasized, that anyone would even listen to these insane accusations.  

And no, for those of you who will try and take what ive said and turn it around, im not dissing on fat people or hairy people or ethnic people, alls im saying is that picking at mothers who want to breastfeed is like picking on them for their issues; its ridiculous and childish. GROW UP!! 

  

**Amanda** 

 
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October 11, 2005, 12:41 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: lunachele

If someone here is telling women they "are guilty of causing their own cancer", I certainly missed the post.  Saying something presents a higher risk is not the same as saying it is a certainty (much less that it is deserved), which is why small sample anecdotal evidence like "all the ff kids I know are smarter trhan the bf ones" couldn't possibly be scientifically any more valid than the studies you critique.   

  

The AAP, which you seem to have at least some respect for, mentions the link between breastfeeding and a lowered risk of certain maternal cancers, as well as the IQ enhancing effects of breastmilk.  That's fairly mainstream, not lunatic fringe like you are attempting to portray.   

  

I'm sorry you are so upset over this, but you are really getting very insulting and personal about it with people.   And there's a huge difference between saying a choice is inferior and saying that a person is.  Why does the discussion have to degenerate to name calling?  YOu made a choice which you are happy with, so why attack others for doing the same?  Just because their interpretation of the evidence and assessment of the risks is doifferent, doesn't mean they are lunatic fringe or "terrorists".   

  

  

The American Academy of Pediatrics Policy on Breastfeeding states: 

  

Extensive research, especially in recent years, documents diverse and compelling advantages to infants, mothers, families, and society from breastfeeding and the use of human milk for infant feeding. These include health, nutritional, immunologic, developmental, psychological, social, economic, and environmental benefits.  

Human milk is uniquely superior for infant feeding and is species-specific; all substitute feeding options differ markedly from it. The breastfed infant is the reference or normative model against which all alternative feeding methods must be measured with regard to growth, health, development, and all other short- and long-term outcomes.  

Epidemiologic research shows that human milk and breastfeeding of infants provide advantages with regard to general health, growth, and development, while significantly decreasing risk for a large number of acute and chronic diseases. Research in the United States, Canada, Europe, and other developed countries, among predominantly middle-class populations, provides strong evidence that human milk feeding decreases the incidence and/or severity of diarrhea,1-5 lower respiratory infection,6-9 otitis media,3,10-14 bacteremia,15,16 bacterial meningitis,15,17 botulism,18 urinary tract infection,19 and necrotizing enterocolitis.20,21 There are a number of studies that show a possible protective effect of human milk feeding against sudden infant death syndrome,22-24 insulin-dependent diabetes mellitus,25-27 Crohn's disease,28,29 ulcerative colitis,29 lymphoma,30,31 allergic diseases,32-34 and other chronic digestive diseases.35-37 Breastfeeding has also been related to possible enhancement of cognitive development.38,39  

There are also a number of studies that indicate possible health benefits for mothers. It has long been acknowledged that breastfeeding increases levels of oxytocin, resulting in less postpartum bleeding and more rapid uterine involution.40 Lactational amenorrhea causes less menstrual blood loss over the months after delivery. Recent research demonstrates that lactating women have an earlier return to prepregnant weight,41 delayed resumption of ovulation with increased child spacing,42-44 improved bone remineralization postpartum45 with reduction in hip fractures in the postmenopausal period,46 and reduced risk of ovarian cancer47 and premenopausal breast cancer.48  

In addition to individual health benefits, breastfeeding provides significant social and economic benefits to the nation, including reduced health care costs and reduced employee absenteeism for care attributable to child illness. The significantly lower incidence of illness in the breastfed infant allows the parents more time for attention to siblings and other family duties and reduces parental absence from work and lost income. The direct economic benefits to the family are also significant. It has been estimated that the 1993 cost of purchasing infant formula for the first year after birth was $855. During the first 6 weeks of lactation, maternal caloric intake is no greater for the breastfeeding mother than for the nonlactating mother.49,50 After that period, food and fluid intakes are greater, but the cost of this increased caloric intake is about half the cost of purchasing formula. Thus, a saving of >$400 per child for food purchases can be expected during the first year.51,52  

Despite the demonstrated benefits of breastfeeding, there are some situations in which breastfeeding is not in the best interest of the infant. These include the infant with galactosemia,53,54 the infant whose mother uses illegal drugs,55 the infant whose mother has untreated active tuberculosis, and the infant in the United States whose mother has been infected with the human immunodeficiency virus.56,57 In countries with populations at increased risk for other infectious diseases and nutritional deficiencies resulting in infant death, the mortality risks associated with not breastfeeding may outweigh the possible risks of acquiring human immunodeficiency virus infection.58 Although most prescribed and over-the-counter medications are safe for the breastfed infant, there are a few medications that mothers may need to take that may make it necessary to interrupt breastfeeding temporarily. These include radioactive isotopes, antimetabolites, cancer chemotherapy agents, and a small number of other medications. Excellent books and tables of drugs that are safe or contraindicated in breastfeeding are available to the physician for reference, including a publication from the AAP.55  

  

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics%3b100/6/1035 

  

  

The cancer comments were in response to a very specific study cited by another poster.  You'd have to go back and cut and paste the references into your tool bar in order to see what I'm referring to.  One poster also claimed that not breastfeeding put women at risk for breast cancer.  You can scroll back and read that, too.   

  

So you certainly did miss those posts.  

  

Saying something presents a risk at all when it doesn't is a lie.  That's my problem with both the study and the poster's claim.  

  

The truth was that breast feeding may (may, not definitely will, and it won't supercede other factors with certain cancers, such as carrying a gene for it) lower a woman's risk for some cancers.  That doesn't mean that bottle feeding will increase your risk.  It means that bottle feeding won't change your risk at all one way or another.   

  

I also went over the IQ study.  It showed correlation, not causation, and never made any definitive claims.  I did not deny this.  Please go back and read my posts and not posts where other people have claimed I've said things I haven't.  Otherwise you're arguing a strawman and that's a huge waste of time for both of us.  

  

People have been horribly insulting towards me, too.   I give what I get.   

  

It is very much an insult to call somone's choice inferior.  Inferior means not as good as the other choice.  The truth is, no one here can ever know what another woman's reasons were for her choice,  so they can't make a judgment call on it, and the word "inferior" is a judgment call.  Unless you know why someone chose what they did, you can't say if it was the better or worse choice, or if it was better or worse than a choice someone else made based on a completely different set of circumstances.   


When you use a word like "inferior", the end result is to make the person you're talking to feel less worthy, small, stupid and, well, "inferior".   I made a different choice, which was the right choice for me given what I was dealing with, and the end results were not the horror story I was told by the more vociferous members of the breastfeeding activist crowd.   

  

If it's not your intent to make someone feel inferior, then don't use the word about their choice.  It really is that simple.  If you want people to respect your choice to breastfeed and to be open about your reasons for why you feel it might be better if more women breastfed, I don't think starting out by calling other women's choices "inferior" is a real smart PR move.   

  

And always, always, always keep in mind that you don't know what she is dealing with emotionally, physically or mentally, or how other factors in her life are affecting her at the time.  An aggressive come-on by a "well-meaning" (Lord spare us all from those who "mean well") breast feeding activist may be the last straw for a mother affected by post partum depression.   

  

  

 
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October 11, 2005, 12:41 pm PDT

A stranger disciplining your child in publisc

  

   Dr. Phil, 

      If a stranger tried to discipline my child in public or private, I'm afraid they would have a physical battle to fight from me.I always took good care of my kids, and kept them in line.If a stranger attempted to discipline my child they would have to walk through me first..I raised my children as I saw fit and if a stranger didn't agree with my method of parenting they could go away.No stranger has the right to discipline other peoples children..... 

 
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October 11, 2005, 12:44 pm PDT

Breast Feeding

I found it very interesting that the woman who was complaining about public breast feeding chose to wear a blouse that exposed half her breasts.
 
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October 11, 2005, 12:44 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: moiraine

Okay, studies SUGGEST that breast milk increases intelligence. I guess I didn't choose the best wording. I wasn't trying to say it was proven, and I don't think anyone here is. 

  

While many things can affect the intelligence of a child, those studies are something that parents (future parents) may want to consider. There isn't anything wrong with breastfeeding advocates stating what a study suggested. People can look at the data and make a conclusion for themselves. Just as you have done. 

  

I myself think that the studies may have some merit. Especially when you consider the following...Breastmilk naturally contains DHA, cholesterol, and other fats which are needed for optimal brain growth and development. And if a breastfeeding mother doesn't have enough of those fats in her diet, her breasts will manufacture them...it seems that the body deems them to be rather important. Only in the last few years has DHA been added to some formulas in the US. And formula contains no cholesterol. Combine that with the study and it doesn't seem to be too far fetched to me. 

  

Now, I'll try to get back on topic.... 

Studies suggest there is  a _correlation_ between breast milk and IQ.  Not causation.  Correlation.  It means the study suggests there may be a link, not that the study suggest breast milk causes the increase.   

  

If people are going to use these studies to influence women's choices, the least they could do is learn the technical terms involved and what they actually mean.  Otherwise you're not really telling the truth. 

  

 
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October 11, 2005, 12:52 pm PDT

tips for nursing in public

Did anyone go read the tips and ideas that ProMoM has in their nursing in public "reading room" articles? http://promom.org/nno/

This was a good one: http://promom.org/bf_info/haveaNIP.htm and it included the following tips...

Practice in front of a mirror. Practice at home until you can latch-on discreetly. If your husband is the worried one practice in front of him until he is more comfortable.°

Nurse at the first sign of hunger. A screaming baby draws attention.

Latch-on, then look up and away from the baby. Look people in the eye and smile. They will meet your eyes instead of following them down to your breast.
 
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October 11, 2005, 1:00 pm PDT

Breastfeeding in public or not?

I don't even see why there is a debate about this.  Every mother has the choice as to how to feed her baby.  I am a nursing mom and I have never looked down on a mom who is formula feeding her child.  Why is it different for BF moms?  A newborn baby must eat at least every 2 hours and on demand.  The baby should not have to wait for the mother to go to her car or clean a restroom stall.  Also a newborn given a bottle of pumped milk would be fine if every nursing mother had the time to sit for 30 minutes or more just for 3-4 oz of breast milk, and that is if they are good at pumping.  I do not agree that a mother should have to put a blanket over her and baby. Besides an  older baby will just throw it off anyway.  That is what GOD made breasts for.  They naturally make milk to feed a baby when he or she is hungry because babies shouldn't have to wait.  Are you expecting a mother who BF to sit at home for the first few months until babies feedings become a bit more predictable.  I couldn't stand the 2 day hospital stay.  I can't imagine being locked up at home because some people are too insecure with themselves that they can't handle to see a child nurse.  As long as the mother isn't purposely flashing passerbyers what is the problem? A Nusing mom isn't half naked in front of everyones view making provocative or lude acts.  To the people who are worried that there daughters or sons see a BF mom in public instead of hiding there eyes you could just explain to them what she is doing. Simply put she is feeding her baby.  That when a woman has a baby her breasts make milk for her child.  And for younger children you could throw in that it is like a dog who has puppies.  the mama feeds the pups like she is feeding her baby.  How else are young people supposed to learn anything?  Also one more note... They are called Breasts!!  not boobs or boobies.   

 

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October 11, 2005, 1:01 pm PDT

breastfeeding

I am currently pregnant and will be breatfeeding once the baby arrives.  The main reason I have dedided to not formula feed is because of the benefits of breast milk.  That said, my baby will ultimately have to become accustomed to a bottle at some point, likely when I go back to work.  I realize that a bond forms durning the feeding, but I was never breastfed by my mother and we were extremely close.  For the sake of nutrition, couldn't these mothers just use a bottle filled with breast milk while out & about?  I understand that a baby needs to eat when they need to eat, but come on!!  It is not absolutely necessary that the kid is always attached to the breast. 

  

While I do agree that should a woman desire to feed anywhere anytime she should be allowed to do so and not be persecuted for it, I really would not do that myself out in the open.  What about church?  Does anyone out there really think that this would fly if someone's kid "needs to eat" while in mass?  I seriously doubt it.  I bet that these particular women either do not attend or they bring a bottle or excuse themselves to private quarters.  Please let's stop with the double standard. 

 
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