Topic : 10/07 The Latest Debates

 Actually, I'd like to hear this. Do please share with us the DISADVANTAGES OF BREASTFEEDING. If you can make a convincing, research-based, rational argument for the superiority of bottlefeeding I'll tear up my LLL membership card and wean my son right this second, that's how sure I am you can't do it.

I am glad you stuck with breastfeeding. You must feel really good about yourself that your body can produce enough for your child to grow, and grow and grow. I know a lot of women quit when "it hurts" or they dont "have enough milk" and with education and support, those issues are usually solved! And you will see that you get more and more comfortable with nursing in public.

http://www.house.gov/maloney/issues/breastfeeding/CRS_Report_on_State_Breastfeeding.pdf 

  

Whether or not ppl agree with it, it's promoted by the public health service, and is a protected right.  

The Advantages of Formula The following is a quote from the article.... "I once read a statement on a newsgroup along the lines of "I have searched for information on the benefits of formula feeding, but all the information out there is bigoted in favor of breastfeeding". In response, I decided to assemble a web site to list the reasons I've heard and read to suggest that formula feeding is superior to breastfeeding. I will also refute those arguments where I can." http://systems.cs.colorado.edu/~kolina/advantages-of-formula.html

someone else can phrase this better than I can:

From: http://systems.cs.colorado.edu/~kolina/advantages-of-formula.html

"I was raised on formula, and I'm fine." That may be true, but a lot of evidence has accumulated over the years that indicate you would be more than 'fine' (http://www.fda.gov/fdac/features/895_brstfeed.html) if you had been breastfed. People who were breastfed have a significantly better chance of accepting a kidney transplant- if the advantages show up in that one way, how many others do you suppose there are? Here is a good summary of the Top Ten Reasons to Breastfeed (plus 91 more) (http://www.promom.org/101/) with references. Katherine Dettwyler, PhD has compiled a comprehensive list of supporting references. (http://www.kathydettwyler.org/dettwyler.html)

Actually, in most states, it is not.  Most states have laws which protect a mother's right to breastfeed in public.  Some explicitly exempt breastfeeding from the indecent exposure criminal statutes.  My state does.  (see below)  To find out what the law is in your state, you can check: 

  

http://www.lalecheleague.org/Law/summary.html 

  

NEW YORK BREASTFEEDING LAWS: 

  

New York was the first state in the nation to enact any form of breastfeeding legislation. As far back as 1984, NY exempted breastfeeding of infants from their criminal statute. Then, in 1994 NY led the nation by enacting the most progressive breastfeeding legislation in the United States -- amending their civil rights act to grant mothers an absolute right to breastfeed in public.Note that NY also has a law that allows under certain circumstances mothers who give birth in prison, or who are nursing a baby, to have the baby with them in prison while the baby is less than 12 months of age. 

  

NY Penal Laws  

§ 245.01. Exposure of a person 

A person is guilty of exposure if he appears in a public place in such a manner that the private or intimate parts of his body are unclothed or exposed. For purposes of this section, the private or intimate parts of a female person shall include that portion of the breast which is below the top of the areola. This section shall not apply to the breastfeeding of infants or to any person entertaining or performing in a play, exhibition, show or entertainment. 

  

§ 245.02. Promoting the exposure of a person  

A person is guilty of promoting the exposure of a person when he knowingly conducts, maintains, owns, manages, operates or furnishes any public premise or place where a person in a public place appears in such a manner that the private or intimate parts of his body are unclothed or exposed. For purposes of this section, the private or intimate parts of a female person shall include that portion of the breast which is below the top of the areola. This section shall not apply to the breastfeeding of infants or to any person entertaining or performing in a play, exhibition, show or entertainment. 

  

NY CLS Civ R § 79-e (Article 7 Miscellaneous Provisions).
1994 N.Y. ALS 98; 1994 N.Y. LAWS 98; 1994 N.Y. S.N. 3999§ 79-E. Right To Breast Feed.
Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a mother may breast feed her baby in any location, public or private, where the mother is otherwise authorized to be, irrespective of whether or not the nipple of the mother's breast is covered during or incidental to the breast feeding. 

  

I was raised on breast milk. 

  

I never said I was raised on formula.  

  

My children were breast fed for personal reasons. 

  

That you are continuing to insist I said things I never said and argue those things ( in other words, arguing a strawman) only goes to show you are not at all interested in anything I truly am saying but just want to attack me for not breast feeding and use my posts as a springboard to post more of your propaganda. 

See, the reason I don't believe most people who spout statistics is because they do exactly what you just did.  Refuse to acknowledge me as a human being, claim I am saying things I never said (thereby forcing me to prove a negative), and then "talk" over me by using the fake argument you just set up to post more studies that don't have anything to do with my comments or my position. 

  

See why people think you're extremist fanatics who don't care about other people but only care about your position? 

The breasts on TV look a million times better than the ones that have a child hanging off of it?!? That is ridiculous!!! IT IS A BABY EATING!!!! Do you find it disgusting to see a baby eating out of a bottle? It's the same thing!!!

Also, "volunteer", I was responding to someone else about a very specific topic, not to you, and not about whatever it is you're on about now. 

  

I know who you are IRL, and I really would appreciate it if you would refrain from addressing me.  You are neither a disinterested party in this debate nor a "volunteer".  

  

Let's just leave it at that, shall we? 

OK, I read that article again (it has been a while) and it is so good Ill cut and paste some of it here that deals a bit with nursing in public or with other posts on this board. But here is the link to the original http://systems.cs.colorado.edu/~kolina/advantages-of-formula.html and that website has links in the text to the references for the facts.

I once read a statement on a newsgroup along the lines of "I have searched for information on the benefits of formula feeding, but all the information out there is bigoted in favor of breastfeeding". In response, I decided to assemble a web site to list the reasons I've heard and read to suggest that formula feeding is superior to breastfeeding. I will also refute those arguments where I can. I've searched the popular press via the Electric Library and the scientific literature through Medline and First Search; only one has shown any real, verified reasons for choosing not to breastfeed, and the incidence of that is very rare.. None-the-less, I have read reasons stated by women, their families and some mainstream books as a sound justification for this decision who I think, are just saying “yuck” to breastfeeding. I have tried to link as much of this information to other sites on the web. In some cases, the same keyword will be linking to more than one site, such as 'oxytocin' and 'pump'.

1. "I was raised on formula, and I'm fine." That may be true, but a lot of evidence has accumulated over the years that indicate you would be more than 'fine' if you had been breastfed. People who were breastfed have a significantly better chance of accepting a kidney transplant- if the advantages show up in that one way, how many others do you suppose there are? Here is a good summary of the Top Ten Reasons to Breastfeed (plus 91 more) with references. Katherine Dettwyler, PhD has compiled a comprehensive list of supporting references.

2. "I want my husband to be able to feed the baby." It's important that dads be involved but there are a lot of ways that dads can get involved other than by feeding. Dads can bathe, diaper, burp, massage, sleep with, play with, snuggle with, and talk to the baby. Dads have a significant role in childrearing that doesn't need to include bottles. It shouldn't be too hard to defer the joy of feeding for just 6 months or so until the baby is interested in solids. Time flies with babies, so deferring enjoyment shouldn't be sufficient reason to deprive a child of the best food possible.

3. "My doctor told me formula is just as good as breastfeeding". Medical schools teach very little on breastfeeding (or formula use and nutrition, for that matter.) so most doctors know little about it, and even less about how to help a mom through the early difficult days. Many doctors aren't willing to say that they don't know how to help; many don't know that they can refer lactation problems to an IBCLC. Often doctors believe that a woman is looking for 'permission' to wean or to bottlefeed, and they don't want to make her feel guilty by stressing the importance of breastfeeding. Those formula samples you see in some offices are freebies and one of the small give-aways that formula companies compete to give to doctors and mothers. There are some good doctors; some even have handouts that can educate your physician. The American Academy of Pediatrics now has a statement to actively promote breastfeeding, but their Canadian counterpart has not followed suite.

4. "I need to take a medication or have an illness that would be harmful to the baby" Very few medications are contra-indicated for breastfeeding mothers, but many obstetricians, family physicians and surgeons know little about breastfeeding, and don't take the time to do the proper research. In the rare cases that the drug is contraindicated, there is usually an alternative that is safe to use while nursing. If your physician isn't willing to do the necessary research, contact an IBCLC (International Board Certified Lactation Consultant), talk to your pharmacist and read up on the drug in "Medications in Mother's Milk" by Thomas Hale, PhD. The case for breastfeeding with HIV is still not clear but there is evidence to suggest that exclusive breastfeeding (ie., nothing but breastmilk) for 6 months is the best course to take, especially in undeveloped areas.

8. "Bottlefeeding ensures that the mother won't be tied down." Breastfeeding babies are extremely portable- all you need is a diaper and the baby. Breastfeeding can be very empowering for women.

9. "I'll have to bottle feed in public anyway"- Breastfeeding is not lewd or indecent conduct. It is not illegal anywhere in the United States, nor have I ever heard anyone suggest that it may be questioned elsewhere in the world. The states that have passed laws about breastfeeding have done so only to clarify that it is legal. I nursed my children *everywhere* for more than 2 years, before anyone ever suggested that I shouldn't. I think it's great to breastfeed in public because so many people have never seen a breastfeeding baby until they start to breastfeed their own baby. So, don't hide in the bathroom and don't feel like you need to pump and bottlefeed to go out. When I was challenged (twice, so far in more than 7 years of lactating), I informed the person of my rights to feed my children where they needed to be fed. I hope I educated them.

13. "Bottlefeeding means your child gets a food that is better than Mother Nature's because scientists have improved it." Actually, food scientists would be the first to admit that there are about 100 components of breastmilk missing in even the most complete infant formula. Many of these will never be available except in human milk because they just can't be duplicated, or they can't be processed, packaged and shipped. There's just no improving the real thing, and the manufacturers are the first to admit that. In addition, the amounts of many nutrients vary greatly between batches- another risk you don't need to take. Tom Hale points out that the current bandwagon for DHEA is flawed because a lot of that added DHEA in formula is converted to testosterone in women (and probably baby girls).

15. "No fashion considerations if you bottle feed." Bottlefeeding costs at least $1500 per year; three times that if you need hypoallergenic formulas. There are a good number of very nice nursing garments available- try Motherwear, Japanese Weekend, Elizabeth Lee Designs, Jake and Me, and more; even a McCall's and a Vogue pattern are available, and there is a Nursing Mother’s Sewing List. With the amount you save on not buying formula, you should be able to afford a few nice dresses. If you have no money at all, simply wear two piece outfits and pull up or unbutton your shirt from the bottom- the baby will hide any skin that may show. People will be admiring your baby anyway, not looking at your little bit of exposed tummy.

25. "Bottlefeeding is so convenient and formula is easy to mix." The sad truth is that studies of bottlefeeding parents indicate that the vast majority of formula is improperly mixed. The scoop sizes can vary from half as much as needed to more than twice as much and the water added varies just as greatly. It doesn't balance out over time, and kidney and liver damage can result from too much formula; malnutrition from too little. I have never heard from a breastfeeding mother who thought that bottlefeeding would be easier, once they get through the beginning of the learning curve. Recently I had the joy of caring for a friend’s breastfed baby for a day. He is a sweet easy going 3 month old and we had a full supply of breastmilk for the day. I learned first hand what a pain it is to hold a baby and bottlefeed- much easier to hold a baby and nurse. The baby gets more attention, he can spend more time exploring and snuggling mom, and mom isn’t occupied with holding the bottle in his mouth. Moms can’t possibly snuggle a baby as much while bottle feeding, and watching non-breastfeeding mothers confirms that.

Remember, if you go to the original link for the article, the facts are references and linked there so you can "go to the source" of the information.