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Topic : 10/07 The Latest Debates

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Created on : Friday, September 30, 2005, 03:40:18 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

Dr. Phil and his guests strike up heated conversations as they debate the latest hot topics. Should women give up their right to breastfeed their babies in public so other people don't feel uncomfortable? Will passing out condoms in schools prevent unwanted pregnancies or just send the message to kids that it's OK to have sex? And, is it acceptable for others to discipline your kids if they see them acting out in public, or should they just mind their own business? Dr. Phil weighs in on these controversial subjects. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

 

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October 7, 2005, 4:45 pm PDT

Breastfeeding Older Children

Quote From: missjane2

I breastfed one of my 4 kids for 12 months.  The others I didn't.  I really don't remember breastfeeding in public.  Although it doesn't bother me to see a mom breastfeed her baby WITHOUT TEETH in public.  What would be an interesting subject is talking to mom's who breastfeed their older children.....??????  Kindergarden?  And that's not funny, but they have that Le Leche Club thing and some woman either culturally or for whatever reason go beyond what is necessarily.  At least in my opinion.  Anyone else ever hear of this?

Ok, I couldn't let this comment go... I am wondering if you can post any links to some valid, scientific research, giving an age for when a woman should wean her child from bresatfeeding, and also some evidence for the point at which breastfeeding becomes unnecessary.   

  

I don't think you can, but in the true spirit of a fair debate, I'm willing to read any links you can give me that are scientifically based and that support your views.  And I hope you will check out these links... Essentially, they state that there is no age at which you should force your child wean and that there are health/nutritional and emotional benefits that continue beyond one year of age. 

  

American Academy of Pediatrics' Policy Paper: Breastfeeding and the Use of Human Milk (see point # 10 under "Recommendations on Breastfeeding for Healthy Term Infants".   

http://aappolicy.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/pediatrics;115/2/496#SEC2 

  

Nursing After the First Year 

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/index.html 

  

Extended Breastsfeeding Fact Sheet 

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html 

  

Extended Breastfeeding Myths 

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-myths.html 

  

Signed, 

One-half of a happily nursing duo (the other half being my nearly 20 mo. old son) AND the Librarian for my local La Leche League chapter (www.lalecheleague.org) 

  

PS: La Leche has no policy pushing anyone to breastfeed any longer than they want to (1 mo., 6 mos., 3 yrs., or whenever)- they only are there to support women in an otherwise horribly unsupportive culture, to do what our bodies were meant to do (feed our children). 

 
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October 7, 2005, 4:46 pm PDT

breastfeeding in public

I think breastfeeding in public is fine if you are discreet about it.  There are so many ways to nurse and be discreet. The public does not have to see your breasts and it is not in your best interest to show every pervert in town your breasts. Men look at our breasts sexually and woman view them differently. I do not want some strange man seeing my breasts. It's up to you ladies, but cover up if you don't want strange men getting off on seeing your breasts.
 
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October 7, 2005, 4:46 pm PDT

Breastfeeding in Public

I may be from the old school, but I think breastfeeding in public can be done as long as it is discreetly. I am not comfortable watching some woman pop out her breast in my face using a baby as an excuse. I also don't feel that it's necessary for our teenage boys to have some woman pop out their breast in front of them. I think that you can breast feed a child discreetly and giving them what they need without exposing yourself to young men getting much more than they need. If the American public were open minded about women exposing themselves in public, then why was there such an uproar over the Janet Jackson wardrobe malfunction last year. It's obvious to me that we don't want to see that type of thing around ourselves or our children. No matter how natural it is to feed a child, please do it in private. There are a lot of ways to cover yourself up and get the job done.
 
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October 7, 2005, 4:46 pm PDT

Where are our morals?

It amazes me how many people have a problem with breast feeding.  It has been shown in so many studies that breast feeding is the best way to start a childs life.   It has so many benefits to a newborn child.  I am currently a breast feeding mom, and I am happy to say that I have only had positive experiences in public, but I do my best to not show my breast to anyone.  I don't think that a mom should have to go to the bathroom to breast feed.  It is not a sanitary place to eat, so why would we want to feed our children there?  I hope that this country continues to support breast feeding instead of making mothers feel ashamed to do what is the most healthy for our kids. 

  

What kind of a message are we sending to our children when we pass out condoms freely in school?  I think that it is absolutely necessary to educate our children on the topic of sex.  I think we need to do our best as parents to make sure that they are making healthy decisions for themselves.  Why can't we as parents teach our children that premarital sex is not the best but if they choose to have sex, free condoms are available at planned parenthood.  Stealing is not the only way for a teen to obtain condoms.  Parents need to start taking more responsibility for their childrens education and actions. 

  

  

 
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October 7, 2005, 4:46 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: badtrip

You should tell your son that she is just doing what comes naturally and it's protected by law. And that it is the normal way to feed a baby. He's at the age where he probably likes boobies, so maybe you could tell him not to stare too much too! LOL 

We can't go to the corner because we have and deserve to have the same rights as bottle feeding moms. Why would you question the decency of such a healthy choice. In case you haven't heard, breastmilk is the healthiest food a baby can get. In contrast, formula has many disadvantages and risks! 

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/1999/07/19/formula/ 

http://www.promom.org/101/ 

I personally think that it is a good thing that your son is asking questions and it may be an opportune time to answer them. It is natural for a child to have questions and by 16 years old hopefully those questions have been truthfully answered by his parents, because otherwise he has already seeked out the answers from friends and the media. If my child were to point out someone nursing and ask me about it, I would say that that mom is feeding her baby. Some parents choose to use a bottle and other parents choose to feed their babies from their own body. Of course I would vary this depending on the age and developmental stage of the child, but I feel it is so important not to be judgmental about other people, especially in front of my child. Maybe you could view your son's questions as a learning experience instead of something negative. 

 
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October 7, 2005, 4:46 pm PDT

BREAST FEEDING IN PUBLIC

Quote From: lynnefonda

A level-headed, societally sensitive, 'pre-planned' mother will breastfeed her child whenever necessary. Common sense, and personal awareness, will dictate the appropriate discretion. I breastfed 3 children, the last, now 27 yrs old, for 2.5 years. 

  

Choose your battles, carefully.  Consider  your "actual agenda?" 

  

  I FEEL THAT WOMEN SHOULD BE ABLE TO BREAS FEED WHENEVER AND WHEREEVER THEY WANT.   THE PEOPLE THAT ARE AGAINST IT, IN MY OPINION ARE PRUDES AND VERY PRUDISH.  ESPECIALLY THE WOMEN THAT DON'T HAVE CHILDREN.  MAYBE IF THEY HAD CHILDREN THEY WOULD FEEL DIFFERENTLY ABOUT IT.  I DO AGREE THAT WHEN BREAST FEEDING THAT THE MOTHER SHOULD BE SOME WHAT DISCREET ABOUT IT.   BUT I ALSO AGREE THAT IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE IT,     THEN DON'T LOOK.  BREAST FEEDING HAS BEEN AROUND SINCE DAY ONE AND WILL CONTINUE TO BE AROUND UNTIL THE END OF TIME.  SO LET IT GO.     

 
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October 7, 2005, 4:46 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: nolsma

I am the SAHM to a 7 month old baby boy.  Since I am a SAHM, he is exclusively breastfed because it's by far easier for all of us for me not to have to pump and bottle feed.  I don't get out with him often but when I do, I try to breastfeed him in the car before we go in to a store so that he will be satisfied for the duration of the time we will be in public.  If he gets angry, I will usually find a quiet place to nurse him with a blanket or take him to the car.  HOWEVER... one thing I've learned since I've been a parent is that THINGS DON'T ALWAYS GO ACCORDING TO PLAN when kids are involved.   

  

I will give an example... 

  

We had my aunt in from out of town and she wanted to do touristy things while she was here.  Most of the time my little one did ok with eating before going into public, all except for the zoo.  Now, I fed him on a bench out of the public eye with a blanket over my shoulder.  He ate and seemed happy.  Then we got on a train ride thing - which I didn't realize was going to be an HOUR LONG.  Figuring he just ate I was sure he would be good and probably just fall asleep.  NO!  We were stuck on this train (and they didn't allow us to take the stroller which still had the nursing blanket in it) so I was there with nothing to cover myself and after 5 minutes - he decided to scream. 

  

There was nothing I could do at that point and in a moment of desperation I nursed him right there on the train.  I try not to nurse in public more for my own modesty, but I would do whatever I had to and even deal with my discomfort to feed and comfort my son. 

  

So, all of you who dislike breastfeeding in public... would you rather sit around a screaming baby?  Would that be more "pleasing" to you?  Would that make you less likely to lose your appetite in a restaurant?  Or would you rather the mother feed the baby to calm him/her down? 

I agree with you!   

  

I am a 22 year old mom to a beautiful 18 month old girl.  I am PROUD to say that I am still breastfeeding and yes, even in public!  I work part time but am at home a large amount with my daughter.  We go out and about quite a bit so nursing in public is inevitable.  You cannot always live on a feeding schedule with a baby.  It just doesn't work like that.   

  

Now that she is older and eating "table food" only occasionally do I have to NIP (nurse in public).  I suppose I could go into a bathroom to nurse.. or maybe find a fitting room at the mall or something but I have one question for you.  How many meals have YOU eatin in the bathroom?  Or a fitting room? None?  Well than why should my baby have to?  And why should I feel the need to sit in a stinky bathroom just to feed my baby?   

  

If you don't like watching a women nourish her baby, then DON'T LOOK!  It's really as simple as that!  

  

Lydia  

  

 
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October 7, 2005, 4:46 pm PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: manchester

That's just about the furthest I've ever heard the constitution stretched  Breastfeedding as freedm of expression.  Any arugument abouit your child's needs and being hungry just went out the window.  You can't have it as neccessity and freedom.

No, you misunerstood. I was referrring to the woman who said she had a right not to see breastfeeding in public because she thinks she has a right not to hear swearing in public. But public speech is protected under the first amendment.  

And I also don't think you can really say that breastfeeding openly isn't free expression. What if a woman chooses to do so (nurse without covering up) because she feels that nursing is not shameful, isn't that free expression in a way? The Supreme Court has upheld the right of school children to wear Nazi armbands to school.  

Also, in the Dike case the Supreme Court stated that states cannot impose a restriction of any kind on breastfeeding. There is a Constitutional Right to breastfeed your child. In states where laws do not exist calrifying the protection of nursing, the mother has a federally protected right to nurse however she chooses. 

It doesn't really matter what your specific interpretation of the law, or the semantics of my post are. My arguments don't really matter anyway because this is already a right that has been well established. If the day ever came when American women were not allowed to nurse in public I would be up on the hills of DC staging a nurse-in. But I'm not, I am happily nursing openly in Texas. 

Get over it! 

  

  

  

http://www.lalecheleague.org/Law/NBNovDec94p164.html: 

"...The Necessity for Breastfeeding Legislation

These incidents and others (a mother in California was thrown out of a restaurant, another asked to leave a large department store) have helped many to recognize that breastfeeding legislation is necessary. Legislation is being enacted not because it is currently illegal to breastfeed in public, but because, despite the growing awareness of the advantages, there are still stumbling blocks that affect a mother's decision to breastfeed or to continue to do so. We know of no law that prohibits breastfeeding, or tells a mother how long she can nurse.  

As noted, much of the new legislation amends criminal statutes in order to ensure that breastfeeding mothers are protected from charges of indecent exposure, lewd behavior, or violation of any criminal laws. Again, this was done not because it is a crime to breastfeed in any state, but because many of these statutes are vague and could apply hypothetically to the breastfeeding situation. More importantly, this legislation also was enacted to change the public's perception of breastfeeding, since many people in our society view breastfeeding in public as obscene or indecent.  

These recent changes in the law support the growing body of evidence that demonstrates that breastfeeding is not only a lifestyle choice, but a health choice for mother and baby. As James P. Grant, the Executive Director of UNICEF, stated:  

Study after study now shows, for example, that babies who are not breastfed have higher rates of death, meningitis, childhood leukemia and other cancers, diabetes, respiratory illnesses, bacterial and viral infections, diarrhoeal diseases, otitis media, allergies, obesity, and developmental delays. Women who do not breastfeed demonstrate a higher risk for breast and ovarian cancers.  

These benefits are also recognized by US federal law in the Women, Infants and Children (WIC) program, which provides food supplements to low income families. It is now mandated that breastfeeding be promoted as the best method of infant nutrition and provides funding for state-delivered breastfeeding aid, education, and promotion programs.  

Encouraging and protecting breastfeeding benefits not only the individuals involved, but society in general. The US federal government, and many states have supported breastfeeding programs partly because hundreds of millions of tax dollars continue to be used to purchase artificial baby milk. With health care reform currently on the national agenda in the United States, legislators are beginning to realize that there are economic and medical benefits to society if breastfeeding is promoted. According to one study, if women breastfed their children until two years of age, the incidence of breast cancer could decrease by twenty-five percent. Considering the cost of caring for the victims of that disease and other serious illnesses against which breastfeeding offers protection to mother and baby, the lost productivity, and the emotional trauma for families, there are certainly no good reasons not to promote breastfeeding.  

Both Florida and New York stated the reasons for encouraging breastfeeding in their bills. These included the US Surgeon General's recommendation that babies be breastfed at least one year, the health and psychological benefits to mother and baby, and the goals of the World Health Organization. They concluded that "hostility to mothers and babies in our culture based on archaic and outdated moral taboos" can seriously deter a mother from breastfeeding. They hoped that enacting this legislation would help put an end to the vicious cycle of embarrassment and ignorance about breastfeeding so that mothers would be encouraged to continue to breastfeed without feeling discriminated against or ostracized.  

What the Future Holds

Since Barbara Damon and Marlene Pennekamp began calling attention to this issue in the early 80s, breastfeeding legislation has gained momentum. Not only have other states submitted bills on breastfeeding (Arizona, Illinois, New Jersey, and Wisconsin), but some have also taken breastfeeding legislation one step beyond nursing in public. For instance, Iowa recently amended its jury duty statute to exclude mothers of breastfed children who are responsible for the daily care of the child and not regularly employed outside the home. Florida, though, leads the way this year with its newest legislation that creates a breastfeeding project to determine the benefits, barriers, and costs of implementing worksite breastfeeding support policies for state employees. Policies supporting the practice of worksite breastfeeding will be formulated for the entire state. These policies will address issues such as work schedule flexibility, accessible locations and privacy to pump or nurse, and access to clean, safe water sources for cleaning breast pump equipment. Florida's newest law also revises various laws governing services for WIC recipients by requiring an emphasis on breastfeeding. The law also takes a small step toward encouraging hospitals to become more baby-friendly.  

New legislation affecting the health laws, family law, civil rights, employment law, and criminal law will be submitted next year in Texas. These laws, if passed, will be the most expansive and thorough legislation to date that affects breastfeeding mothers.  

Conclusion

As the legal system continues to recognize and encourage breastfeeding, a message is sent to the public at large that breastfeeding is an important issue, one that has an impact on our lives and futures of our children. But society's views and taboos are not easily changed. Legislation that recognizes the importance of breastfeeding is just one step toward helping our society become more supportive of breastfeeding.  

We'd like to hear from you. If you live in the US, let us know of other pending breastfeeding legislation. If you live outside of the US, what are the laws that affect a woman's right to nurse her baby in your country? Write to: LLLI, 1400 N. Meacham Rd., Schaumburg, IL 60173-4840 USA.  

ENACTED BREASTFEEDlNG LEGISLATION

[Ed. note: the file Breastfeeding Legislation in the United States has a more up-to-date listing.]  

Florida Statutes, section 383.015 (1993) contains Florida's law which states that breastfeeding must be encouraged and gives a mother a right to breastfeed anywhere she has the right to be.  

Florida Statutes, section 383.018 (6) (1994); Florida Senate Bill No. 1668, Florida 13th Legislature, Second Regular Session (1994) Chapter 94-217, Florida Advance Legislative Service contains the full text of Florida's new law implementing breastfeeding worksite policies, baby-friendly hospital incentive, and encouragement of breastfeeding in the nutrition programs.  

Iowa House File 2350, Seventy-Fifth General Assembly 1994, Iowa Advance Legislative Service contains the new law regarding jury duty and breastfeeding mothers.  

Michigan Senate Bills 107,108, and 109 (Acts 313, 314, 315, Public Acts of 1994), Michigan 87th Legislature, 1994 Regular Session, Michigan Advance Legislative Service.  

New York Senate Bill No. 3999-A, 1994 Regular Session, Chapter 98, New York Advance Legislative Service contains the full text of the bill which lays out the health benefits for breastfeeding and why it should be encouraged. The text of this bill is virtually identical to the Florida bill that resulted in FL stature 383.015.  

North Carolina General Statutes, section 14-190.9 (1993). Virginia Code Annotated section 18.2-387 (1994)  

PENDING LEGISLATION

Arizona Senate Bill 1510, 41st Legislature, 1994 Regular Session, Arizona Bill Tracking Statenet, introduced February 8, 1994.  

Illinois Senate Bill 1501, 88th General Assembly, 1993-4 Regular Session, Illinois Bill Tracking Statenet, introduced March 4, 1994.  

New Jersey Assembly Bill 2009, 206th Legislature, First Regular Session 1994), New Jersey Bill Tracking Statenet, introduced March 29, 1993, last action May 16, 1994.  

Ohio Senate Bill 342, 120th General Assembly, 1993-4 Regular Session, Ohio Bill Tracking Statenet, introduced August 4, 1994. 

Elizabeth N. Baldwin was an attorney and family mediator in private practice with her husband, Kenneth A. Friedman, in Miami, Florida. She died in March 2003 after an extended illness. Her family law practice primarily focused on protecting young, securely attached and breastfed babies in divorce cases. Elizabeth was also a La Leche League Leader, and a member of LLLI's Professional Advisory Board, Legal Advisory Council. She published numerous articles on breastfeeding and the law, and often spoke at conferences. She assisted hundreds of parents involved in breastfeeding legal cases, and provided information and help to parents, attorneys and other professionals dealing with these issues. 

COPYRIGHT 1994, all right reserved. This article may be printed out for personal use but may not be reproduced in any other manner nor for any other purpose without permission. 

Last edited August 4, 2005, by jlm. " 

  

 
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October 7, 2005, 4:46 pm PDT

public breast feeding

Dear Dr. Phil, 

I will never understand why a woman feels she needs to expose her breast in public to nurse her child.  There are too many ways to mention to cover the breast while nursing. I doubt there are too many people who are comfortable with an exposed breast in public.  As for the woman on the show who said her child would just take the blanket off if she covered up with one, who is the parent?  I nursed all 4 of my children and never showed my breasts while doing so.  Nursing is natural and beautiful but if the people around you are not comfortable with it, it's wrong to not cover up.   

 
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October 7, 2005, 4:47 pm PDT

children who act out in public

    I have to relate an experience I had when my two sons were just 7 & 5.  It was after church one Sunday, when 5 families decided to go out to a very nice restaurant for brunch.  You could see the faces of the other customers drop when we trooped in with 12 children ranging from 6 months to 7 years.  We were seated at a large center table.  after having helped the children to be served the adults sat.  It was only then that we realized that the young ones were all down at the other end of the table without an adult.  Our first instinct was to change the seating, however, we decided to see how well they would do.  They carried on their own conversation without yelling or jumping around and when the younger ones wanted more the older children would get up with them and walk them to their parents for help.  As the other customers left they would stop at our table and congratulate us on how well behaved our children were.  Needless to say we were so proud of them that day none of us had any buttons left on our shirts.  The children could have asked for the moon and we would have given it to them.  None of us could tell them enough how very proud they made us. 

                I know it is a very long story.  The point is children can and so behave in public if taught from infancy.  It is up to the parents.  Today I can take my grandchildren with me alone to a restaurant or any public place without difficulty, because they know what grandma expects of them.  We start them at 6 months.  

  

                                                                       One very proud mother, grandmother and greatgrandmother 

 
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