Topic : 10/07 The Latest Debates

In regards to Public Breastfeeding ~ If you cover up I'm fine with it.  I, personally, don't think I should have to look at someone elses breast while eating my onion rings.  I'm pretty sure no one wants to see me whip mine out and slap them on the table in front of them while they're in the middle of a meal. 

  

  

Kids are having sex.  It's a fact.  Kids are dying of STD's.  This is a fact.  If handing out condoms in school will save just one I'm all for it.  And the argument that handing out condoms promots sex is ludicrus.  The kids who are, are.  The kids who aren't, aren't.  No matter if they have a packet in their pocket or not. 

  

  

If you don't want someone else telling your child to stop doing something that you should have told them to stop doing then you need to keep them home.    Example:  My mother and I went to the Henrey Ford Museum last month.  While there a 6 or 7 year old boy kept kicking the back of our bench seat on the train.  We waited for his mother or grandmother to tell him to stop.  When they did not my mother turned around and told him to please stop kicking her seat.  It was rude.  The mother pretended not to hear us.  Difficult as she was setting right there.  He did stop for a few minutes.  I watched him out of the corner of my eye and when he thought the adults were distracted he began again.  Harder.  I turned in my seat and stared at him.  His mother finally got annoyed after she realized that I wasn't going to stop and asked me to please stop staring at her child.  my mother turned around and told her that since she had no problem allowing her son to be rude and kick a strangers seat till the stranger had to stop him she really had no reason to stop her daughter from being rude by staring at a rude child and his mother.  Grandmother just sat and smiled. 

  

  

As a new mom who is currently breastfeeding a 3-month-old son, I was especially interested in Friday's debate about nursing in public. I find it ironic that this society is so offended by moms feeding their babies the way nature intended, but sees no problem with breasts being displayed in a sexual manner on TV shows, in advertisements, and on the street. Boobs in public are apparently okay as long as they are young, perky, and not being used to sustain a baby! Just look at TV shows like "Friends" where the female characters wear shirts so tight you can see their nipples.  

I admit that when I am in a public place with my baby, I personally do not feel comfortable "whipping them out," (I always cover myself with a blanket), but I believe people need to get over their discomfort with breastfeeding. It is interesting that Dr. Phil's guest never could say what it was about nursing that bothered her. I believe it's simply American prudishness. We try to act like we're so open about sex and reproductive matters, but in reality we are much more like our Puritan ancestors. Breastfeeding is simply the last phase of the pregnancy-childbirth-nursing cycle and should not be a source of embarrassment. Public breastfeeding is not a big deal in other parts of the world...so I think it's time for my fellow Americans to GROW UP!!! 

--Pam, mother of Noah, avid breast-feeder 

  

Two ideas from other places might help resolve this contentious debate.  First, back in the 1960's, sex education began in junior high school, and I vividly remember it.  Idea was, the school was there in part to teach authority, and to reinforce the authority of the parents;  and, vice versa (hence the formation of the PTA).  So in sex education, which was GRAPHIC, you learned at the ripe old age of 13, that making babies happened due to sex and could wreck your life.  Then you went home and were supposed to talk about it with your parents.  I remember my mother offering to get me birth control pills if I needed them, though she was NOT in favor of non-marital sex, or early marriage.  So the institutional parent, the school, and the individual parent, were 'one' in my mind.  It worked well.  I didn't have sex, and didn't want to, either.  (When you're a teenager you want to go against your parents -- so if they allow something, that removes the attraction from the thing allowed.) 

  

Secondly, in Niger or Ghana a year or two ago, they were concerned about HIV within the Army, so set up a series of groups, each headed by a sargeant or officer, to frankly talk about the problem, to hand out condoms (about six per person) and then go through how to use them.  WIDE ANGLE (PBS.org) filmed these sessions.  They were very effective. 

  

Seems to me you could do a similar thing in sex education classes, folding in the same sessions, but BEGIN EARLY, say age 13.  At that age, the child is still not so fond of the opposite sex, but rather is just beginning to test the idea of boy-girl infatuations.  So if ANNUAL classes of sex education are mandatory and BALANCED in approach, by age 16 or 17, the child's ASSOCIATIONS of the sex act are likewise more balanced;  the person will know HOW to use condoms but will be FAR LESS INCLINED to engage in intercourse.  The trend among teenagers seems to be abstinence, anyway, because all the exposure in movies etc. to broken, hurt sexual relationships, is making the kids gunshy.  So to take this new approach in sex education, will likely reinforce that trend. 

  

Finally:  I wish we'd recognize that the true danger of pre-marital and extra-marital sex is that it breaks down psychological restraint.  Your ability to say no to ANY physical urge (i.e., the urge to get angry, the urge for self-pity, the urge to eat) is seriously eroded if you don't learn how to restrain sexual urges.  For this breakdown to occur early (i.e., during the teen years) stunts psychological growth.  Why else do you think sex cult members have such a difficult time adjusting in normal society?  They were broken down while still TODDLERS -- so never had the chance to develop self-control. 

  

We shouldn't be stressing the wrongs of pre-marital and extra-marital sex as moral issues, but as pathological issues.  Sure, the morality matters -- but the pathology can kill ya.  Especially, the psychological pathology.  That should be taught in sex education classes, too.  Devil is in the details, how to construct classes to do all this -- but it's worth whatever failures in the trial-and-error, to begin trying, right? 

  

I think Dr. Phil hit a home run with this one. Social Senativity is the key to breastfeeding in public. I remeber when my daughter was 4 months old, we were going out to dinner with friends. My friend told me her husband was a little uncomortable with the "nursing thing", so I pumped a bottle. Well my little one would not take the bottle from my husband with me sitting right next to them. I set down my fork and was about to excuse myself and take her to the car when, my friends husband asked me why I was leaving. I explained that I was going to nurse her and be back when I was finished. He said, well the meal is here now, and we should all eat together; he felt she should have her meal with us. I think I set the tone of understanding by bring the bottle and showing I was sensative to his feelings. I think this was a chance for everyone to learn something and enjoy a nice meal. I also wanted to point out, that there are great nursing tops available at a number of different price points, which really allow for cool, comfortable and covered feedings. I personally invested in a number of these, for my modesty and the comfort of others. Unless the bathroom has a nursing lounge, I would never feed my baby there. Most public bathrooms in the US are a health hazard to adults, let alone a new baby! Better to find a dressing room, your car of a very out of the way place. I think there are times however, where you just have to nurse the baby. Like flying. My son, who is nursing now, just will not take a bottle and my husband is a pilot and we fly alot to meet him as he is based in another city from where we live. Believe me, everyone on the flight wants him to nurse at take off and landing. It would be nice if he would take a bottle or pacifier, but not the case. I always just tell whoever is next to us, that he will be nursing, thus allowing them to ask to be reseated if they would prefer. Again, being sensative to their feelings, as much as is possible.

Shelly obviously needs to be educated about breastfeeding, as it is completely normal and natural. If you have a problem with it, don't look! I believe that for Shelly and others who have problems seeing women breastfeeding, the issue stems from an event, most likely sexual, that occured in childhood. Many victims of sexual abuse have difficulties with anything or body part having to do with sex and, also have trouble forming any type of relationship. 

  

As far as condoms go, the lady opposed to the idea is right about latex breaking. Also, if you are allergic to latex, you must resort to non-latex, which breaks even easier. (Note: I did not figure out that I had a latex allergy until I kept noticing bandaids irritating me all through childhood and put two and two together, so this is just a little note for parents or anyone who might be.) Tracey, please stop blaming everyone else for your getting pregnant--you chose to spread your legs, knowing full well how it happens.  

  

I have a question for Karla: where is your husband? Certainly, you don't go out to dinner without him. I can understand only having two hands during the day while he's at work, but where is he when you go to dinner? Parents need to teach their children proper etiquette and class. Also, please do not bring your children to graduations, lavish weddings, shows, and other upscale events. When I pay for expensive dinner or tickets, I expect there to be peace and quiet. Lastly, I have never actually tried to discipline another child in public, but I have given the parents "looks" and said, "Shut-up!" and they still did not make much of an effort in some cases. A little threw something at me at a graduation and neither parent removed him. These are parents who seem to think that little Suzy is a perfect angel, and act like there is nothing wrong. I agree with Robin on removing their son from the restaurant. 

Please don't ever be offended unless you know all the facts of that situation. I tried to breast feed my son for his benefit and was unsuccessful. I produced milk but it would not come out. I attempted breast feeding my daughter hoping that what ever was the cause of my problem with my son had been resolved. No such luck! Therefore I was forced to bottle feed my children. Some time Iater, I learned that my grandmother had lost her firstborn child due to the very same thing. She tried to breast feed and didn't realize milk was not being expressed and her son starved. She never forgave herself for that. So before you pass judgment on a bottle being used.... think! That may be that childs only source of nourishment.

I have an 8 month old who I breastfeed, but NEVER have I had to do it in public.  It is called a SCHEDULE.   I plan my outings according to his schedule; it's really not that difficult.  If I will be out for longer than a 3-4 hour period, I take along a breast pump and a full bottle of breast milk.  I have never had a problem finding a private area where I can pump a bottle for my son.  For those that think there is no problem baring their breasts in public, they better not do it in front of my son when he is old enough to giggle at "boobies" because I will let them know how inappropriate it is-personally.  They should be arrested if they don't cover up with a blanket FOR SURE!  Dr. Phil-if for any reason you ever do a debate show again about this subject, please have both sides be breastfeeding mothers, otherwise it makes the lady who isn't a mother just look ignorant.

  

I have brest fed my 3 children any where and every where... Kids have the right to eat as well as anyone else dose.. Just because it comes from a boob should not make any diffrence in how  

the children get there food. You once probably scuked on your moms boob so why should you have a problem with it, is what i like to say to people who have a problem with breastfeeding.. 

Why do you think god gave you boobs in the first place.. if he didn't attend for woman to brestfeed 

he wouldn't gave them to you.. 

  

 I have 3 beautiful children whom I have breast fed. There is nothing wrong  in feeding a baby who needs to eat too. Babies don't pick and choose when they are hungry. It isn't always convenient for the mothers to do it out in public, but it has to be done.  The human breast is a natural part of a womans body and is not some nasty thing used to tick people off. God made us that way, and I am not ashamed, or embarassed of its use. If you don't like it, walk away. Just don't make the feeding mother feel guilty of taking care of her child.. 

  

There is no way I would want my kids school to pass out condoms. Just because someone gives them a condom doesen't mean they are gonna use it. I believe the school is the best place for the technical aspects of teaching sex, but the parents should be equally responsibile for the feeling part of it. Parents really need to be involved no matter how uncomfortable it may be. 

  

Nobody other than parents, teachers or baby sitters should be disciplining our children. Now, if my kids bumped into someone several times and it disturbs them, they have a right to say "please don't  do that again" But if they are gonna be rude about it, then I would have a problem. It really all depends on how they talk to that child.