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Topic : 10/07 The Latest Debates

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Created on : Friday, September 30, 2005, 03:40:18 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

Dr. Phil and his guests strike up heated conversations as they debate the latest hot topics. Should women give up their right to breastfeed their babies in public so other people don't feel uncomfortable? Will passing out condoms in schools prevent unwanted pregnancies or just send the message to kids that it's OK to have sex? And, is it acceptable for others to discipline your kids if they see them acting out in public, or should they just mind their own business? Dr. Phil weighs in on these controversial subjects. Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

 

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October 9, 2005, 12:17 am PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: naomil

OK! So I know I wouldn't enjoy eating my breakfast, lunch, or dinner in the bathroom. I don't know about everyone else. I think it is infuriating, that ignorant people would want us to feed our children in the bathroom. I have breastfed all 3 of my children , and my last one just stopped nursing a few weeks ago, and he is 15 mo. When my babies were hungry, they ate, no matter where I was. Most of the time no one could even tell I was nursing, and I NEVER wore nursing tops, I wore regular shirts or blouses. I just people need to start living in the year 2005 and realize that more and more mother's are going to be nursing there babies in public. I live in Oregon where we BY LAW can nurse in public! I don't think it should be changed and no it won't be.  

I just would like you people that think we should breast feed our babies in the bathroom , to think... and check out the next public bathroom you go into, and see, if you can find a place to breastfeed your child at that isn't on the floor, or in a stall sitting on a toilet that doesn't have a lid, and imagine eating your food there. Not very pleasant is it??  

  

Thank you! 

Naomi 

Member of the Militant Breast feeding Cult :) 

I am going to use this again (It is just too good), and because you are the exact person it applies to: 

  

Well, it sounds like these breastfeeding mothers DON'T WANT TO BE DESCREET, rather, they want to do whatever they want and not care about other people, like the mother on this debate show with Shelly.     

    

People just want them to be a bit more discreet.  I admire women who can do this and feel good about it.  There are many of them out there.   

 
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October 9, 2005, 12:20 am PDT

UUmm

Quote From: awritermom

Yep, I've heard of it. :-) I breastfed my son until a few months past his fourth birthday. When I was pregnant, I had a vague idea I wanted to breastfeed. When my midwife asked how long I planned to breasfeed, I said, "Six months?" I had no idea what was typical. The more I educated myself, the more I realized the benefits. The benefit of avoiding disease in the child are life-long, including cancer. The benefits of increased brain development, of a stronger face and more developed jaw (and decreased speech problems later), etc. As a child grows, breastmilk changes to suit that individual child's exact needs. Even day to day and hour to hour, breastmilk changes to be ideally suited to the child. The WHO recommends breastfeeding children for a MINIMUM of two years. (Once my son was that age, I did not bf in public). He continued to receive nutritional, devlopmental, and health benefits throughout that time. He gradually weaned himself, but liked to cuddle and nurse a little in the morning when he first woke up until just past his fourth birthday. This was not what I had planned or envisioned when we started, but it is what worked for us. He is a well-adjusted, highly intelligent, very healthy kid. He has never had an ear infection or any other serious illness, other than a few colds and the flu once--and he never had a rash, cold, or flu or any illness before he was two. We have never had a doctor's appointment other than a well-child check-up. What does a baby's teeth have to do with breastfeeding in public, anyway? Are a child's teeth indecent?
 What child wants to remember sucking on their moms breast??  Well to each their own, but personally I think thats really wrong.  It is extremly uncomfortable to see somthing like that!  Breasts are for feeding babies who cant get their nutrition any other way.  I think it gets almost sexual past two, and I know a lot of people who agree.
 
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October 9, 2005, 12:25 am PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: ibfnpublic

yes, we do eat off of plates.. plates that are sitting on a table.. a table that we are sitting behind... which makes it less noticable for you to see that we are breastfeeding in the first place.. which means you would REALLY have to be paying CLOSE attention to notice us in the first place!
I must have missed this. Are you impling that you keep your kid under the table?
 
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October 9, 2005, 12:26 am PDT

10/07 The Latest Debates

Quote From: jebphd

Breastfeeding is normal.  I'm not so sure about the people who are offended by it. 

Dr. Phil seemed asleep at the wheel regarding Breastfeeding In Public.  Normally he keeps better control of the conversation and holds people accountable when they make bizarre remarks like the anti-breastfeeding woman made about "rubbing your breast on the toilet seat."  Even though the good doctor knew the facts about the benefits of breastfeeding, and he knew the anti-breastfeeding woman was off her rocker, he didn't speak up for normalcy.  I would like to have heard him explain that anybody who is so offended by breastfeeding has something seriously wrong with their mind: a personality disorder; sexual perversion tendencies; a psychopathic disorder of some kind.  They'd better get to a mental health professional and get those symptoms taken care of before they get infected!  Why didn't Phil tell that woman to knock it off every time she said, "Well maybe I don't think breastfeeding is that attractive!"  Who cares if she thinks it is attractive?  When did that become the goal?  The goal in breastfeeding is to nourish a child the way the Lord intended.  The anti-lady seemed to think that a normal mother is egocentric if she says, "I'm going to breastfeed my child whether you like it or not."  Hey, the bf mother is doing what is accepted by normal people.  I can't think of a more loving thing a mother could do than stand up to bullies who would keep her from feeding her baby.   It is egocentric for the anti-bf woman to keep saying, "Me - Me - Me, don't offend me!  I don't care about your brat, just don't offend me!" 

The lord also allowed adam and eves children to have sex with eachother, but society doesnt allow that does it??  Please, the last thing my boyfriend wants to see is some ladies breast hanging out, its uncomfortable and rude.  Men dont run around with their penis's hanging out because its chaffing do they?  I think Dr phil was completly on the ball with this one!  RESPECT.  You dont pee and poo in public do you?? NO because other people dont want to see it, that why they have cubicals, and thats why they have special rooms for breastfeeding.  I think that your remarks on something wrong with their mind is completly off.  Breasts have been extremly sexualised, and really if I dont want to see, why should I be forced to.  Set up your own special breastfeeding places and then all you weirdos who enjoy staring at eachothers breasts can all join together.
 
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October 9, 2005, 12:27 am PDT

Breastfeeding/Condoms/Discipline

Breastfeeding has been around since the beginning of time, it is the most natural thing for a woman and child.  Our society has become desensitized from the media's view regarding sex.  It is on the TV all day long, commercials, the radio, CD's etc.  Breasts are not porn or indecent.  Women who breastfeed do not walk around with their tops off in public, they have a baby snuggled up close to them  I do believe in discretion, personally I don't want be exposed, I am modest.  But, we shouldn't knock the mothers who have made a healthy choice for herself and for the baby. 

  

Condoms should never be given out in school.  I believe that it is giving the kids permission.  That is like someone else putting my daughter on birth control.  I would raise the roof!!!  Again, the shools cannot hand out Tylenol to the students.  Promiscuos sex should never be encouraged and these kids should instead be taught to respect themselves, their bodies and abstinence.  They should be scared about the STD's and pregnancies.  These kids are way too young to be experimenting sexually.  They are not emotionally or psychologically ready to deal with the feelings afterwards.  Again, I blame the media for exploiting sex and giving the appearance that "Everyone is doing it all day long".  That is not the reality.   

  

Discipling other peoples children.  If the child is left in your care (school, sunday school, daycare, etc.) then the person in charge should certainly have the right to discipline (lovingly), i.e Timeout, privelages, etc.  Not spanked or yelled out, etc.  It should be the parents discretion to discipline further. 

 
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October 9, 2005, 1:03 am PDT

The Restroom

Quote From: naomil

OK! So I know I wouldn't enjoy eating my breakfast, lunch, or dinner in the bathroom. I don't know about everyone else. I think it is infuriating, that ignorant people would want us to feed our children in the bathroom. I have breastfed all 3 of my children , and my last one just stopped nursing a few weeks ago, and he is 15 mo. When my babies were hungry, they ate, no matter where I was. Most of the time no one could even tell I was nursing, and I NEVER wore nursing tops, I wore regular shirts or blouses. I just people need to start living in the year 2005 and realize that more and more mother's are going to be nursing there babies in public. I live in Oregon where we BY LAW can nurse in public! I don't think it should be changed and no it won't be.  

I just would like you people that think we should breast feed our babies in the bathroom , to think... and check out the next public bathroom you go into, and see, if you can find a place to breastfeed your child at that isn't on the floor, or in a stall sitting on a toilet that doesn't have a lid, and imagine eating your food there. Not very pleasant is it??  

  

Thank you! 

Naomi 

Member of the Militant Breast feeding Cult :) 

Regarding people who think mothers should adjourn to the restroom to breastfeed the baby: 

Several Deaf people I have interpreted for told me that the old Deaf Schools they went to did not allow them to speak sign language in public.  The educators were offended at the sight of ASL.  The unfortunate deaf went to schools which only allowed lipreading and speaking with voice.  No Sign Language allowed.  So, they spoke sign language only in the restroom where they wouldn't be seen.  More than one of these people have told me that ever since then, they have associated speaking sign language with the shame and the smell of urine.   

 
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October 9, 2005, 1:05 am PDT

Bathrooms are dirty

Quote From: petrosky

There actually is something very UNHYGENIC about nursing in a bathroom.  Bathrooms are filled with AIRBORNE bacteria (c.diff colitis is one)!!!!  Trust me, I almost died from one.  Basically, you should get in and out of public bathrooms as quickly as possible, and under no circumstances should you ever eat in a bathroom!!!!  I did choose to have children and that is my right and I nurse and when I do, you can not see breast skin.  Period.  If you are uncomfortable just knowing that the baby is nursing, that is not my problem.  Are you uncomforable when you see a pregnant woman?  Obviously that means she had sex!!!  Get over yourself and get over your problem.  People like yourself need counseling because you've somehow made the association of nursing as a sexual act.  It is not! 

I was always discrete when breastfeeding my children.  Most places did not accommodate breastfeeding mothers by providing a suitable area for feeding.  I would find myself in bathroom stalls - trying to find a little "privacy" and growing completely frustrated in the process.  I shudder to think about the bacteria lingering on bathroom surfaces (doors, sinks, locks, etc.)... not to mention the airborne bacteria. 

  

On a trip to Chicago I was pleased to discover the Art Institute of Chicago had small rooms set aside for breastfeeding mothers to find a little comfort and privacy.  I personally don't feel comfortable breastfeeding in public (in open view).  However, that is much preferrable to a bathroom stall - with all its unpleasant sights, sounds, and smells. 

  

  

  

  

 
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October 9, 2005, 1:09 am PDT

Yes True, but, evolve a little

Quote From: islifefair

Don't criticize her because she doesn't have kids.  She's a thinking, feeling human being.  She was a kid once and has probably been around kids all her life.  She has right to her opinion.  

  

Do you think you are so much better just because you have kids?  There are plenty of "mothers" who are terrible mothers involved with abuse, drugs, etc.  You don't have to be a "mother" to know what to do.  Childless people too are smart and caring. 

Why the huge debate then? If you are so repulsed by breastfeeding then I can only possibly conclude 1 thing for certain: 

  

You have never breastfed a baby. 

  

Until you can say you've educated yourself in and practiced something, (like breastfeeding or piloting a plane, or running a country as President, or curing the flu,) then NO, YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO SHARE AN OPINION ABOUT IT. How dare I, (not a Surgeon,) presume to have an opinion about what a surgeon sees fit or necessary to do during the course of his practice? I DON'T. Why? I have no right to do so and I know it. I never passed medical school. I do however have tons of education and experience in being a breastfeeding Mom. I can then feel entitled to an opinion and share it with others if it regards a breastfeeding concern or issue. I have earned the right to share my opinions on that particular topic because I have been there and done that. Why should the childless have an opinion in this matter? It makes completely no sense whatsoever! I decide what's best for my family members not you or anyone else. The truth stings but it is just that- the truth. Simple. That goes for my husband too to some extent. He has never breastfed a baby. Therefore I don't think he has the right to share his opinion. He can have one, but he will respectfully keep it to himself until such a day when he takes the appropriate hormones and therapies and actions required in order for himself to lactate and then feed my baby. In that case I would allow him to and would infact welcome his viewpoints and opinions on lactation practices both private and public and otherwise. Have at it, DH, because now you've earned the right to respectfully share your opinion. (An educated opinion that really means something and which is not just mindless chatter to pass the time.) For those with no vested interest in the very personal matter of feeding my baby, PLEASE BUTT OUT and take care of your own business. I promise not to inflict my unwelcome opinions on you about your personal business. Deal? Besides when exactly in North America did it become OKAY to attack a Mother? Everything I do with my child seems to be questioned or debated everyday. Not just this topic, but any parenting topic imaginable. Everyone throws their advice at me wherever I go and it's plain stupidity for the most part. The advice giver should be CURRENT, RELEVANT, and ACCURATE when sharing information and should never suggest any one way is better for my kids period. I choose because that is MY JOB! Don't ever suggest otherwise. What a sad day in age where we brutally attack other woman for any old reason, but especially mothering. Come on, that's sinking pretty low. I wish the old adage were infact true, that it takes a village to raise a child. If people really meant that, they'd roll up their sleeves, educate themselves and go at helping out Moms and not criticize their every move! Villages are communities of love and respect and help and sharing. There is no tearing down another woman and telling her that her way is just plain wrong. That behavior would predate the ice ages you would think. Can we not stop ripping each other to shreds? Why do we judge each other so harshly? Can't we learn that our opinions are just OUR opinions? So what if Mary got a Boob job or face lift? Who cares if Sally tried and failed at Atkins? Who says that Bethany has poor taste in men and clothing? Is all of this crap important at all? It's ridiculous how woman relate to one another these days and I am getting fed up with it fast. Since becoming a mothering, the only other time I felt this defensive was in JR HIGH when I felt I had to wear designer clothing in order to remain cool enough to hang out with the cooler kids in school. If I bought a cheap brandname I may be ousted and harrassed. I thought we grew out of this phase. Then I grew up to learn I was too fat, getting too old too fast, not rich enough, and that was all okay to deal with and disregard becuase that all came in small doses and the media I can shut out. BUT after having a baby, wow, i can't shut the world up again. It's like having those JR HIGH girls around me nattering constantly about hair and makeup and boyfriend choices and on and on and on. I guess Moms aren't allowed to just be okay with their own choices? We too like teenage girls need to be directed and controlled by popular opinion no matter how misguided or silly, or just plain wrong those ideals may be? Grow up ladies. Evolve a little 

  

Angela 

 
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October 9, 2005, 1:14 am PDT

Excellent Points

Quote From: bethanybib

I've been reading the messages and I felt the need to weigh in so badly that I just registered specifically for this purpose. 

  

There are people here who do have not educated themselves about breastfeeding, in public or anywhere else.  I have read that this is not the place to do it, but where is?  It is the expectant mother's RESPONSIBILITY to make an informed decision about method of nutrition.  I firmly believe that anyone who educates themselves will find that the only viable option is breastfeeding.   

  

I am sick of people comparing breastfeeding with formula feeding.  In our language, grammatically speaking, the comparison should be made to the original.  Therefore, (and this is all FACT!) a formula fed baby's IQ is retarded by 10-15 points, a formula fed baby's development is retarded, a formula fed baby's wellness is affected, a formula fed baby is more likely to be ill as an infant,  a formula fed baby will grow into an adult more likely to develop any number of diseases. 

BTW, use of the word retarded refers to the Webster definition and is not intended to offend anyone with a mental disability. 

  

Additionally, the facts are available and we are all aware of them.  Breastmilk is not comparable to formula.  We all know the benefits to breastfeeding, to the mother and child.  But something that has not been mentioned yet,, (shame on you, Dr. Phil) is the self-regulatory feeding pattern of a breastfed child that will virtually eliminate the chance of adult onset obesity.  Formula fed babies are finished eating when the bottle is empty and/or the parent is done feeding them.  A breastfed baby is finished when they are finished.  We  Americans like to eat well beyond the signs of fullness because we don't recognize those signs.  That is directly caused by the eating habits established in infancy and early childhood. 

  

Regarding nursing in public, I will echo many earlier sentiments.  It is ridiculous to even have this be a debatable issue.  Only in our society (and countries who strive to be like us) do we encounter this sense of breast being sexual first and functional second.  To those who keep mentioning pumps: Many of the benefits of breastfeeding are exclusive to the act itself, not just the human milk that is a result.  Our society embraces the healthfulness of the milk, but neglects to recognize the act as healthful as well. 

  

To the nursing mothers, I applaud you! 

To those who don't, I implore you to please educate yourself.  Knowledge is power, and there is no information available that will contradict the facts already stated regarding breastfeeding.   

  

Bethany 

Well said Bethany! 

  

Breast is Best 

-and- 

Babies Were Born to Breastfeed! 

 
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October 9, 2005, 1:27 am PDT

Pumping is NOT the same thing!

Many have suggested that breastfeeding women use a pump. 

  

Breast pumps do not stimulate the breast the same way that the baby does.  This often causes decreased milk supply and problems getting the milk to let-down.  In addition, feeding from the breast promotes a regular feeding schedule (on-demand) and helps to regulate the mother's milk supply. 

  

Feeding from the breast (as opposed to pumping) enhances the physical and emotional benefits for the infant and the mother.  Nipple stimulation causes a surge in the body's natural hormones.  This is an important part of the "bonding" experience that others have mentioned.  Sucking on the nipple also has physiological effects on the infant.   

  

Bottles are not the same as feeding from the breast itself. 

 
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