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Topic : 10/14 "Kick 'em to the Curb!"

Number of Replies: 253
New Messages This Week: 0
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Created on : Friday, October 07, 2005, 03:44:27 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

How do you know when it's time to kick that relationship to the curb? Dr. Phil's first guest is four months pregnant with her boyfriend's baby. He wants her to leave him alone, and she wants to know if she should let go of the relationship.What does Dr. Phil think? Next, Dr. Phil follows-up with two women whose marriages were in crisis. Sheila's husband, Steve, was a raging alcoholic. She would beat him when he was drunk, almost killing him. Did she take Dr. Phil's advice? And where is Steve now? Then, Michelle was living a cycle of abuse at the hands of her husband. Did she finally say, "No more," to the violence? Dr. Phil has advice for knowing when it's time to get out. Can you relate? Share your story.

 

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October 16, 2005, 10:10 pm CDT

SHEILA, PLEASE READ THIS!!!!!!!!!

I have to say that I think Sheila is someone very familiar to me. Not that I have done that, but I could see the anger in her and in my opinion, she is angry FROM BEING A CO-DEPENDENT of an alcoholic! I am an adult child of an alcoholic and I KNOW that anger! It comes from deep inside because you feel HELPLESS to change the situation. You feel helpless because there is nothing that you do or say that will change the behavior of the addict. So you do the lashing out whether it be beating or verbal abuse or both to the addict and others. I have seen this and experienced it in my childhood..... In my opinion, I wonder if she is a child of an alcoholic/addict of some sort? I know when my spouse used to have even one drink I would get angry, not because he drank, but because it brought up my fear as a child of an alcoholic(s)......I would think, oh no here we go again. Even though he was not an alcoholic. It came from my childhood experiences. I have to tell Sheila, unfortunately, I was one of your daughters. My sisters and I were your children!!! We lived it. NOW, 2 of my sisters are addicts, one is the ultimate over acheiver and in denial...3 of us are obese. All 4 but me, has been divorced and married or remarried to... a rapist, a drug dealer, a doper/drunk/ (more than one), abusers and 3 of the 5 can't seem to get a man to treat them well or leave abusive situations,and all of us has made really poor decisions to get the hell out of that household, way too young. I want to tell you something that has changed me for the rest of my life!!!!!!! ON my 9th Birthday, which is 31 years ago October 15, 2005 (tomorrow), My dad who was an alcoholic came home in a rage during my 9th Birthday party with all my little friends there. He had learned at the bar that my mom also an alcoholic, had screwed around on him with as many as 7 men while he was working. A man at the bar told him his wife was a good ##ck.....He was coming home driving wildly and I saw him out the window. For some reason I KNEW something was wrong. I ran out just in time to save my little sister (who he did not see) on her trike form being ran over by my raging dad. He pulled my mom out of the house by her hair, in front of me, my 2 year old sister, and all my friends. He dragged her out behind a combine and beat her senseless. He was screaming at her and beating her to get the names of the men. He was smashing her face with his fists. I saw it, I heard it....... I grabbed his arm and screamed and cried, Daddy, Daddy, why are you doing this? He said she screwed around on me and if you don't let go of my arm you are next..... To be beaten....So I let go. He would have killed her if not for my grandpa yelling at my dad to stop and jolted my dad out of the rage......... I felt this happened to ME not just my mom. WHY did they (he) do this to ME?! I still have feelings of not being important enough to them and that they really must not have loved me to do this to ME ON MY BIRTHDAY AND IN FRONT OF MY FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS still affects me to this day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still feel unimportant to everyone! Deep inside that little girl, feels this everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have had and still go to counseling for these issues and it does help, but it should have been as a child........ Please get your daughters help, because I know from my own life and experiences, they are affected from BOTH yours and your husbands abuse. You were not only the abuser, he was an abusive parent for being an alcoholic! Just seeing your parent a flat out drunk.....IS ABUSE in itself! I just wanted you to know my opinion and maybe give you a little insight on what your daughters may experience being they have witnessed what they have. Children of abuse and alcoholics feel like it IS their fault, because we are bad little kids or because we did something to make them angry or we didn't do something right so it was our fault they got drunk. We also feel helpless in the situation. I know for myself, I feel like I am never smart enough or good enough for a job, or other people and that things that go wrong are probably my fault. However, intellectually, I KNOW I am smart and everything is NOT my fault, but I have to fight that abused scared little girl inside all the time and so do my sisters!!!!!!.......I feel for you!!!!!!!! YOU CAN DO IT AND HELP YOUR GIRLS, TOO!
 
October 17, 2005, 3:57 am CDT

A friend

Quote From: pifos35

I have to say that I am sad and also relieved that someone out there is going through what I've been going through.  Some people will never get it!  With us, it's hunting, snowmobiling and rodeo.  I have followed all of the dumb advice out there. I've tried to join him in his activities, but he doesn't want me there. I've tried the "nibbling on the ear" junk too, but I too have been swatted away like a fly.  He calls me "muddy water" which means he can't see the tv through me.  I wish I had some good advice but I guess I'm just looking for some myself.  I can't believe that I have put up with this nonsense for 13 years! Most of them either with just my kids or all by myself.  Where do you go from here?

All I can tell you, is that I know EXACTLY how you feel, and if you want someone to talk to ever. Privately, my email is elle474@comcast.net.  My name is Michelle.  Maybe it will do us both some good to know that we are not alone.  There is someone in this world that knows exactly how we feel. 

best of luck to you. 

  

 
October 17, 2005, 4:57 am CDT

Maybe.....

Quote From: freelivin

I believe men many men need family type training, how toos and the how not toos and if women were so smart they would check out this stuff before kids. 

  

You may be right. But the thing is, in the context you were using the word, it is "to" and not "too".
 
October 17, 2005, 7:04 am CDT

in response to ignorance

...I am saddened that in 2005, it is still considered by some that procreation is primarily a woman's responsibility...While it is a good idea to protect oneself if a child is not wanted, there are those women who cannot for one reason or another obtain or use birth control. 

  

Last time I checked, it took two... 

 
October 17, 2005, 11:19 am CDT

I saw my life in all the guests...

As I watched the show Friday, I could see my life thru each of the three guests.  First of all, I spent my entire childhood being abused by my mother.  She beat the hell out of me everyday ... from head to toe and with anything she could find in her reach.  I only fought back once in all those years and that was the day I found the courage to walk out of her house.  She had me on my bed choking me to death and I literally saw my life flashing in front of me.  I knew if I didn't do something, I would die right then and there.  I hauled off and knocked her across the room on top of my dresser.  I left not knowing where I was going or how I would make it, I just knew I would.  I have NEVER understood why she treated me the way she did.  I have one half brother and she never treated him this way.  He stood by and watched what I was going thru and begged her to stop everytime, but she always told him "shut up or I'll beat her harder and if you ever tell anyone, I'll beat you, too".  To this day, he denies ever seeing anything happening to me and is spending his life right now in prison for various issues.  I always thought she had mental issues, and so did others in the family, but according to her, there was NOTHING wrong.  She not only physically abused me, but I lived the mental / emotional abuse.  I was called every name in the book, I was told repeatedly what a loser I am, how ugly I am, how no one will ever want me, etc., etc.  After hearing it "all" for so many years, I've spent the rest of my life believing it ( I'm 38).  I have never been able to let go of the abuse.  I do not know how and definitely cannot afford counseling, which I finally am at a point in my life that I'm ready to have.  My mother died from a heart attack almost 2 years ago and her last words to me were "go to hell".  She blew up at me that summer before her heart attack and said those words to me and slammed the phone down.  I received a call early in the morning at the end of December that she was in ICU in a coma.  I put all harsh feelings aside and drove to be by her side.  I went back and forth for 3 weeks watching her hooked up to every machine they had.  I talked to her, I prayed for her and I cried my heart out.  I told her that I forgave her for all she put me thru, even though I don't think I really have.  I just do not know how to let go of the pain and anger.  She died the day before my oldest son's 10th birthday ... with everything between us still unsettled.  She went to her grave still saying and believing that she never hurt me in any way.  What's even sadder to me is that everyone in my family knew it was happening and NO ONE helped me out of the situation.  I'm still trying to deal with that issue, but I get all sorts of different stories from different people.  Basically, no one cared enough to want to raise me, so they let me live in hell.  Anyway, I went on to put myself thru college and afterwards got married.  That marriage lasted 9 years and I had two wonderful boys from it.  It ended in 2000 and, once again, my life started going to hell again.  I swore I'd never re-marry, but I did in August, 2001.  It was completely stupid on my part and I just wish I could go back to the day my divorce was final in 2000 and start over.  The guy I married is an alcoholic, but I never knew that until after "I do".  He kept it well hidden.  Two days before we married, I lost my job (which I still think he had something to do with).  It took me 8 months to find another one.  I lived in shear misery with him for one year and left.  I moved to an apt. knowing good and well that he'd come looking for me.  He did and has been back and forth more times than I can count.  I keep giving in to him thinking that there may still be some chance of hope that things will eventually work out.  He keeps giving up and running back to the alcohol.  When he's drinking, I'm called every name in the book and talked to so harsh and hateful.  It almost makes me wonder if he took lessons from my mother.  I have forgiven him over and over and over and .... it just never changes.  This has gone on for 4 years now and I just don't know how to let go.  I guess I should be thankful that he never abused me physically.  I've never loved a man ( the person he really is when he's not drunk )  like I have him and he is capable of showing and giving me love I've never known.  I guess that would have to be why I don't know how to let go.  I'm afraid I'll never feel love again and, maybe, deep inside, I'm trying to prove my mother wrong.  So, just as a few examples of what I've been thru in just the past 4 years ... I've lost custody of my boys, I've lost 2 jobs ( which I am now unemployed and have been for 6 1/2 months and can't find a job to save my life ), I lost my car ( because he made me feel sorry for him when he didn't have the money to pay his bills because he wouldn't get off his sorry ass and work, so I neglected mine and paid his ), I have married and divorced him, not once, but twice, in the past 4 years believing all the mumbo jumbo crap that he would give me the world and things would eventually work out, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah.  So, in a nutshell, I've spent my entire life in abuse of some kind and I do not know how to get away from it.  I have been suffering from depression for about 7 years now and can't seem to get away from that, either.  I know that I need professional counseling, but like I stated earlier, it takes money and that's the last thing I can afford without a job.  It is so hard to pick myself up everyday and keep going, but I think of my children and I find the strength.  I used to be a very strong person inside, but somewhere along the way, I lost it.  That and prayers is what got me thru my childhood.  I never knew, until I watched the show on Friday, 10/14/05, that anyone has been thru the ordeals I've been thru.  Our stories had differences, but I have lived a part of each of those women's lives.  I guess maybe this is my chance to vent, so if you're reading this, I know it's depressing, but it is the way things have been for me.  If just one person reads this and it helps, in any way, then it will have been worth the time I spent spilling my guts.  Thank you. 

 
October 17, 2005, 11:28 am CDT

Talking about a good man with divided loyalties

Quote From: mmillr

Holly mackeral, there are enough problems here to fill a book. First thing I would suggest is to identify and separate problems. If you cant do that then the answeres and questions will only serve to add to the confusion. 

  

I am puzzled by the idea that having opened your heart to another "how can I make myself smaller again?" You seem confused, how can you become smaller for having loved? It is not your fault if the object of your affection proved to be incomplete or 'small'. Practice, after all does make perfect. With each experience, however painful or pleasant YOU LEARN. 

  

You ask if it is "realistic to expect a man with baggage...family, wife, and kids....to abandon all". Uh yeah! Considering his TRACK RECORD, if he could leave them for you, what's to stop him from leaving you for someone else when the novelty has worn off? If he could take some of the most important responsibilities in life so casually, you have to ask yourself, and I suspect you havent, if that is the type of person you want closeness with? 

  

I think you really need to ask yourself what the heck you are looking for in such a man, cause either way it is damned if you do damned if you dont. As flattering as such a relationship can be ["wow he'd leave them for me, he must be really enamored with me" it is not the thing(s) a successful relationship is built from. 

  

As for your first question "When to end..?" I suggest knowing from the heart what you will tolerate and not tolerate in a formative relationship. Establish standards beforehand. Otherwise it becomes nothing more than that childish routine of "I dare you to cross this line, okay, now I dare you to cross THIS line, okay now I REALLY dare you to cross this (third ad infinitum) line. 

  

mm 

When I talk about 'a man with baggage' I mean a man with a history, a man with a wife he is either separated or divorced from and children that need and deserve his support. How can such a man make the next woman all important as Dr. Phil keeps saying? Such a man with prior commitments has severe limitations on how he is able to be there for the next partner. The man I know was separated and eventually divorced from his wife (not because of me) worked 2 jobs and had 2 kids, one still young enough to need a lot of his attention. He could or would rarely spend a whole day, much less a weekend with me. He had restrictions I was uncomfortable with and could or would not change on account, supposedly, of the needs of his family. After 3 years I left this man and now 3 years later we are still in contact, with 1200 miles between us and neither one of us having a new partner. I loved this man and his not making me and my needs his priority was my breaking point. And to clarify, my needs did not exclude his taking care of his kids and spending his time and resources with them.
 
October 17, 2005, 11:34 am CDT

Belated Happy Birthday

Quote From: micasmom

I have to say that I think Sheila is someone very familiar to me. Not that I have done that, but I could see the anger in her and in my opinion, she is angry FROM BEING A CO-DEPENDENT of an alcoholic! I am an adult child of an alcoholic and I KNOW that anger! It comes from deep inside because you feel HELPLESS to change the situation. You feel helpless because there is nothing that you do or say that will change the behavior of the addict. So you do the lashing out whether it be beating or verbal abuse or both to the addict and others. I have seen this and experienced it in my childhood..... In my opinion, I wonder if she is a child of an alcoholic/addict of some sort? I know when my spouse used to have even one drink I would get angry, not because he drank, but because it brought up my fear as a child of an alcoholic(s)......I would think, oh no here we go again. Even though he was not an alcoholic. It came from my childhood experiences. I have to tell Sheila, unfortunately, I was one of your daughters. My sisters and I were your children!!! We lived it. NOW, 2 of my sisters are addicts, one is the ultimate over acheiver and in denial...3 of us are obese. All 4 but me, has been divorced and married or remarried to... a rapist, a drug dealer, a doper/drunk/ (more than one), abusers and 3 of the 5 can't seem to get a man to treat them well or leave abusive situations,and all of us has made really poor decisions to get the hell out of that household, way too young. I want to tell you something that has changed me for the rest of my life!!!!!!! ON my 9th Birthday, which is 31 years ago October 15, 2005 (tomorrow), My dad who was an alcoholic came home in a rage during my 9th Birthday party with all my little friends there. He had learned at the bar that my mom also an alcoholic, had screwed around on him with as many as 7 men while he was working. A man at the bar told him his wife was a good ##ck.....He was coming home driving wildly and I saw him out the window. For some reason I KNEW something was wrong. I ran out just in time to save my little sister (who he did not see) on her trike form being ran over by my raging dad. He pulled my mom out of the house by her hair, in front of me, my 2 year old sister, and all my friends. He dragged her out behind a combine and beat her senseless. He was screaming at her and beating her to get the names of the men. He was smashing her face with his fists. I saw it, I heard it....... I grabbed his arm and screamed and cried, Daddy, Daddy, why are you doing this? He said she screwed around on me and if you don't let go of my arm you are next..... To be beaten....So I let go. He would have killed her if not for my grandpa yelling at my dad to stop and jolted my dad out of the rage......... I felt this happened to ME not just my mom. WHY did they (he) do this to ME?! I still have feelings of not being important enough to them and that they really must not have loved me to do this to ME ON MY BIRTHDAY AND IN FRONT OF MY FRIENDS!!!!!!!!!!!!!THIS still affects me to this day!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I still feel unimportant to everyone! Deep inside that little girl, feels this everyday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I have had and still go to counseling for these issues and it does help, but it should have been as a child........ Please get your daughters help, because I know from my own life and experiences, they are affected from BOTH yours and your husbands abuse. You were not only the abuser, he was an abusive parent for being an alcoholic! Just seeing your parent a flat out drunk.....IS ABUSE in itself! I just wanted you to know my opinion and maybe give you a little insight on what your daughters may experience being they have witnessed what they have. Children of abuse and alcoholics feel like it IS their fault, because we are bad little kids or because we did something to make them angry or we didn't do something right so it was our fault they got drunk. We also feel helpless in the situation. I know for myself, I feel like I am never smart enough or good enough for a job, or other people and that things that go wrong are probably my fault. However, intellectually, I KNOW I am smart and everything is NOT my fault, but I have to fight that abused scared little girl inside all the time and so do my sisters!!!!!!.......I feel for you!!!!!!!! YOU CAN DO IT AND HELP YOUR GIRLS, TOO!
Just want you to know that I heard you and I am so sorry you had to experience what you did and I appreciate your sharing your story.
 
October 17, 2005, 11:46 am CDT

Im sorry to say this

Quote From: buckeye_23

Hi!  I am 23 and looking for some advice before i go any further in my relationship.  I have been dating my BF for almost 3 years and it has been a struggle lately.  He has an awful temper but says that he has to yell to get things through to me and to get me to understand.  He doesn't like any of my friends and has said that i need to get new friends that he likes or he will leave me.  My friends aren't fun enough or whatever.  Granted I don't have a lot of friends since mine have gone off to college (and my best friend died) and although i've been in the town i'm in now for almost 3 years - it is hard to fit into any clique or hard to just find someone with the same interests as me.  He has never hurt me but has said some pretty mean things to me which i'm supposed to just forget like i'm a dumbass, somethings wrong with me because i can't find friends he likes, or that i have a sexy body and don't know how to use it, OR that i've failed again.  I love him with all my heart and try so hard and honestly i don't care to have tons of friends becuase i was brought up to be there for my significant other and i am.  I'd much rather be with him than any of my friends (they don't have the same interests as me anymore either) but i don't understand why when i'm unhappy or always worrying about what the next fight will be about.  Please help or give advice on how i can get through to him....i'd like to make this one work..i've already had 1 bad relationship and up until now its been great.  begging for help
It seems as though you may have a yoynger version of my husband. The verbal abuse is unaccetable, and only gets worse. If someone tells you you are dumb long enough you start to believe it, then your self esteem is slowly destroyed. He is a controlling man and you should get some counseling together, (he will probably refuse as they usually say its not them with the problem) or leave him. You are still young enough to find Mr Treat me RIGHT. No man should ever degrade you & once you make it acceptable it wont go away. Men who control will never like any of your friends as they get in the way of the control... Good Luck and if he will do counseling try it--if not, run!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
October 17, 2005, 11:49 am CDT

RE: In Response to Ignorance...

Quote From: eclectic67

...I am saddened that in 2005, it is still considered by some that procreation is primarily a woman's responsibility...While it is a good idea to protect oneself if a child is not wanted, there are those women who cannot for one reason or another obtain or use birth control. 

  

Last time I checked, it took two... 

Well, wait a second... 

  

If a woman is unable to use or obtain birth control, don't you think she would be wise to avoid having sex until she is able to GET birth control? 

  

Sorry, but I'm not trusting my birth control needs to anyone but myself. After all, I'm the one who will be raising the child when the guy decides he doesn't want the responsibility and bails.  

 
October 17, 2005, 11:52 am CDT

Even if you change you cant change him

Quote From: freelivin

Yes kay i am serious. Your response tells me everything. Perhaps then you need to change. Don't lay blame if you are living the same. As Doc Phil say's you teach people how to treat you. what ever the stars mean (*****) tells me you have a low opinion of yourself. Relationships are 100% from each, if one partner is down for a while and is only putting in 50% then the other partner needs to put in a 150% until it evens up, saying you choice has a gap between his ears will not help you or him. Life is full of lesson's without them we can not grow. Reread you comments its about you not him. 

Kay, 

my husband became the same way after we got married, except he refused to hold a job. I also changed, I got clean, got a great job, and begged him to go to counseling. People are only capable of changing themselves, and only if they think there's a problem.Of course my husband said the problem was me,but in a way I guess it was as I taught him it was ok to treat me that way by being silent. Take a stand, tell him how it makes you feel--maybe he doesnt know!!!! 

 
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