Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Hello rlanthier : 

First off, I like the new up of this message board. It's pretty cool, eh. 

And thanks for your response. 

1. GOD'S ORIGINAL INTENT   

My argument went beyond propagation. God created man and woman in his image. Woman came from man, and together in a binding marriage, they are united into one just as God is one (Father Son and Holy Spirit). Also, the triune God is Creator and gave husband and wife the blessing of bringing forth a life from their oneness (the ideal being that husband and wife have never been with anyone else and sharing a special intimate time together -- and in that time shared may possibly come a new life). 

Animals are not made in God's image and do not sin against God. 

2. THE LAWS OF MOSES AND JESUS 

There are three types of law in the Old Testament: ceremonial, civil and moral. Ceremonial laws (Sacrifices and so forth) are done away with the ultimate sacrifice of Jesus. The civil laws change on the context of time and culture. The principles behind the civil laws still applies though. The moral laws still applies. The moral laws can be applied in the past, present, and future. That is because the moral laws come from God's everlasting moral characteristics. We are to love our neighbour because God is love. Not to love (go out of your way type of love) is wrong, because that is contrary to God's moral characteristic -- Love. 

Jesus did say to the woman caught in adultery,  "Where are your accusers? Didn't even one of them condemn you?... Neither do I, Go and sin no more." (John 8:10,11). Jesus -- as the religious leaders did -- recognised adultery as sin. The religious leaders wanted to follow the "letter of the law" where as Jesus followed the "Spirit of the law"(The principle behind the law). So, Jesus didn't change the moral laws, he taught for us to follow the spirit of the law. 

In regard to the word homosexual not being found in the Hebrew and Greek texts, that can be argued. But Leviticus 20:13 is pretty clear in of itself and is just as clear as Leviticus 20:10. Also, Romans 1:26-27 is quite clear. 

Here is a passage to be studied in relation to the death of Jesus and the law (Romans 3:20-25a) 

3. COMPASSION AND LOVE 

I know that there are lots of Christians who take on the righteous like attitude and condemn Homosexuality. But, we are just servants, and God is our master. It is his business to condemn and to save. We are to stand up and speak "HIS" truth, and not our own truth. 

My brother is living with his girlfriend and they get it on. He and I know that it is wrong for him to live this way according to God's standards. But I do not condemn him for it. I am always there for him when he is in need. He can share with me that sinful side of life without feeling condemned. We can discuss things openly even if we disagree. I love my brother and pray for him. He knows I pray for him. He knows I have a strong belief in God and his Word, the Bible. I will not stick my nose in the air and look down on him. How could I -- I used to live that way too. I met him on his level. He knows God's love through my love him. 

Hey, rlanthier, have a good night and I look forward to hearing from you. What you have to say is important. 

Leviticus 18:22  

Isaiah 3:9  

Romans 1:27  

Jude 1:7  

Genises 13:13, 18:20  

Ezekiel 16:50  

2 Timothy 3:3  

If you're really interested in this discussion, please read all of these. Some of them, you may not see that they are talking about homosexuality, but like I said previously, look at the FOOTNOTES, and you'll see exactly what their talking about 

Do we really think all the gay and christian people on the board havent already read these passages... duh? 

I think this is a really dangerous comment - christians and christianity is/are responsible for sooooooooooooo much violence throughout history (and currently) but every time it happens, christians say 'they weren't real christians'. If I say christians murdered several million women durimg the inquistition', i hear 'well they're not real christians, of course!'. If i say 'christians killed 6 million jewish people (and gay peple and disabled people etc etc) during the holocaust', I hear 'well the nazis weren't real christians!!'. If I say christians lynched a crapload of black people...not all that long ago', I hear 'not real christians!'. you get my gist.  

'cept all that defending doesn't change the fact that these people were practicing christians and used christian scripture/theology to defend their actions. it's very dangerous because it allows christians to do anything they please, to perpetrate the most disturbing, horric crimes, in the name of christianity, in fact at times BECAUSE of christianity, and there are always the other christians saying 'oh, they weren't real christians. they were perverting the word of god. they are evil, bad etc. not christian.'   

if that's the case, then what makes a true christian? I know christians who say those anti-gay christians out there who are against equal rights for gays, are not 'real' christians, because they practice intolerance. before the civil rights movement, the racist christians were 'real' christians. it's only in hindsight that christians today say they weren't. what about in 50 years, when the gay rights movement has reached the same point as the civil rights movement has now, and all the christians at that time look back at you guys, in hindsight and say 'oh, they weren't real christians!'.  

it goes on and on. every major social justice movement in history is resisted by the 'christians' of the time...then when the values of the movement have become common sense, the current 'christians' reject the authenticity of the generation who fought against equality.  

if history follows the same pattern it has followed up to this point, 50 years from now, it will be as taboo to say 'gays are sinners' as it is to say 'black people make great slaves'. and the generation of christians around then will be excusing all the harm today';s christians are doing by saying 'of, they weren't true christians', just like you guys say about the KKK. 

I think this is a really dangerous comment - christians and christianity is/are responsible for sooooooooooooo much violence throughout history (and currently) but every time it happens, christians say 'they weren't real christians'. If I say christians murdered several million women durimg the inquistition', i hear 'well they're not real christians, of course!'. If i say 'christians killed 6 million jewish people (and gay peple and disabled people etc etc) during the holocaust', I hear 'well the nazis weren't real christians!!'. If I say christians lynched a crapload of black people...not all that long ago', I hear 'not real christians!'. you get my gist.  

'cept all that defending doesn't change the fact that these people were practicing christians and used christian scripture/theology to defend their actions. it's very dangerous because it allows christians to do anything they please, to perpetrate the most disturbing, horric crimes, in the name of christianity, in fact at times BECAUSE of christianity, and there are always the other christians saying 'oh, they weren't real christians. they were perverting the word of god. they are evil, bad etc. not christian.'   

if that's the case, then what makes a true christian? I know christians who say those anti-gay christians out there who are against equal rights for gays, are not 'real' christians, because they practice intolerance. before the civil rights movement, the racist christians were 'real' christians. it's only in hindsight that christians today say they weren't. what about in 50 years, when the gay rights movement has reached the same point as the civil rights movement has now, and all the christians at that time look back at you guys, in hindsight and say 'oh, they weren't real christians!'.  

it goes on and on. every major social justice movement in history is resisted by the 'christians' of the time...then when the values of the movement have become common sense, the current 'christians' reject the authenticity of the generation who fought against equality.  

if history follows the same pattern it has followed up to this point, 50 years from now, it will be as taboo to say 'gays are sinners' as it is to say 'black people make great slaves'. and the generation of christians around then will be excusing all the harm today';s christians are doing by saying 'of, they weren't true christians', just like you guys say about the KKK. 

I think this is a really dangerous comment - christians and christianity is/are responsible for sooooooooooooo much violence throughout history (and currently) but every time it happens, christians say 'they weren't real christians'. If I say christians murdered several million women durimg the inquistition', i hear 'well they're not real christians, of course!'. If i say 'christians killed 6 million jewish people (and gay peple and disabled people etc etc) during the holocaust', I hear 'well the nazis weren't real christians!!'. If I say christians lynched a crapload of black people...not all that long ago', I hear 'not real christians!'. you get my gist.  

'cept all that defending doesn't change the fact that these people were practicing christians and used christian scripture/theology to defend their actions. it's very dangerous because it allows christians to do anything they please, to perpetrate the most disturbing, horric crimes, in the name of christianity, in fact at times BECAUSE of christianity, and there are always the other christians saying 'oh, they weren't real christians. they were perverting the word of god. they are evil, bad etc. not christian.'   

if that's the case, then what makes a true christian? I know christians who say those anti-gay christians out there who are against equal rights for gays, are not 'real' christians, because they practice intolerance. before the civil rights movement, the racist christians were 'real' christians. it's only in hindsight that christians today say they weren't. what about in 50 years, when the gay rights movement has reached the same point as the civil rights movement has now, and all the christians at that time look back at you guys, in hindsight and say 'oh, they weren't real christians!'.  

it goes on and on. every major social justice movement in history is resisted by the 'christians' of the time...then when the values of the movement have become common sense, the current 'christians' reject the authenticity of the generation who fought against equality.  

if history follows the same pattern it has followed up to this point, 50 years from now, it will be as taboo to say 'gays are sinners' as it is to say 'black people make great slaves'. and the generation of christians around then will be excusing all the harm today';s christians are doing by saying 'of, they weren't true christians', just like you guys say about the KKK.