Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

First of all, the REAL WORD OF GOD, which is Jesus Christ, said that those who believe in him will enter heaven. John 3:16. When he was asked by the clerist what to do in order to gain salvation, Jesus said nothing about gays not entering heaven. In Matthew 25:41-46, he says how we treat our fellowmen is how we will be judged by him. In Luke 10:26-28 he says that we are to obey the commandment, "Love God with your whole heart, soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself" and if we do this, we get eternal life. Simple!  

Second. Which translation are you using that says "homosexuals" will not enter the kingdom 1Cor 6-9-10. The word "homosexual" first of all was not even invented until the 18th century. When Paul wrote his letters he wrote in ancient Greek and the the CLOSEST Greek word  you can find to match our modern english word for "homosexual" is "paiderasste."  But Paul does not use it. WHY? Instead Paul uses the Greek words "malakoi" and "arsenokoitai." These have been mistranslated by modern Bibles like the NIV, as "homosexual,". This is incorrect.  

In CORRECT versions they are translated as "catamite" and "men who lie with boys". Just to give you a little historical perspective, prostitution and pedophilia was commonplace in Greek and Roman culture. And by all means it should be condemned. If Paul wanted to say "homosexual" he would have used the Greek word for homosexual. Simply put, this scripture does not condemn gay people nor committed gay relationships. And even if Paul WANTED to condemn gay people or committed gay relationships remember.....
 

Third The letters of Paul and others are not laws but guidelines and HIS views and HIS advice on how faith should be practiced, how families and the early church should arrange their affairs. They were letters addressing a specific people at a specific age within a specific context. So for example Paul did not speak out against the atrocities of slavery but he urged slaves to be obedient to their masters in Titus 2: 9-10. Does that mean it was wrong for slaves to rebel and seek freedom? Paul also reflected the perception of women as lesser creatures who had to be taught and should not seek to lead. Read 1 Corinthians 14: 36-36 and 1Timothy 2:11-15 and tell me if this is still applicable to our time and what we have learned so far as a human society? You should also know that the early apostles often DISAGREED amongst themselves on many things like this. Peter for example, did not always see eye to eye with Paul's writings and said so in 2 Peter 3:16. He called Paul's writings "difficult to understand" and things for the "unlearned and unstable to wrest unto their own destruction."  

This is why it is SO IMPORTANT as Christians for us to concentrate on CHRIST! Not the sermons and letters of anyone else. If we do we fall victim to the SAME fundamentalism and sectarian bickering. Are you a Christian or a Paulian? 

Why is it so hard for so many on this site to understand that not everyone is a christian and not everyone is a born again christian. 

I happen to be Native American and am proud of my heritage-- ethnic and spiritual.  My culture doesn't condem people for living how they are made.  We don't believe we own our children-- meaning we can not chose their path for them-- we can only guide them.   

 We have nothing in common with fundamentalist christians when it comes to belief systems.  Many in my community have embraced a spirituality (christianity) which DESTROYED our culture and way of life.  It's a very sad thing.  But I suppose when you are confronted with "Convert or die"  many do choose to accept the conquerers way of life. 

So, when you all start going on and on about what your god wants from all people of the earth, all I can do is shake my head at your ignorance.  For isn't that what you do when you are confronted with traditions different from your own? 

I believe the Earth is the mother of us all, and that we are destroying our mother.  Can't you hear her screams?  But do I tell you SUV driving, 6000 square foot house living, polluting non-bleievers that you our murdering our mother?  Isn't that more important that who someone loves?  No, I don't.  Not generally, anyway. 

My tribe has a cultural history of accepting all among us as brothers and sisters.  Including those who do not fit into traditional gender roles.  Including those who are attracted to those of the same sex.  It's all around us on mother earth.  All mammal species show same sex attraction.  While it is not the norm, it is not unnatural. 

You do not get the right, because you call yourself a christian to comdemn people who believe other than you do.  And you sure don't get the right to make the laws that affect us all according to your religion. 

You surely do not have the right to impose self-hatred and self-loathing on people being true to their born selves. 

I'm so thankful I live in a part of the country where I do not have people like the visitors on this board trying to convert me to their religion. 

And all of this judgement day stuff is a little confusing.  I remember that less than 20 years ago, that kind of reasoning was only used by doomsday cultists like Jim Jones or David Koresh.  It's frightening to me how many seemingly sane Americans have fallen into the doomsday cult mentality. 

I could really get into the jesus rhetoric if more pople who claimed to be christians quoted the Sermon on the Mount insteas of leviticus. 

I am not gay, but I have had the pleasure of knowing many gays, lesbians and transgendered people throughout my lifetime.  I am the richer in spirit for it. 

And I almost for got.  For those illogical people who claim that god doesn't make mistakes?  What about people born transgendered?  In  the US, the birth rate of people with ambigous genitalia (intersex) is about 2% of live births.  So those people are not mistakes?  I don't believe they are and according to your logic, you shouldn't, either.  But then that doesn't fit your worldview of two genders and strict gender based societal roles. 

I long for the day we all get past out superstitious knee jerk reactions to those who are different.  I am hopeful though.  It was only a little over a hundred years ago that the official US government position on my people was 'the only good indian is a dead indian.' 

Maybe someday the attitudes I'm seeing here toward those who are gay/lebian/bisexual/intersex/transgendered are just as abhored by mainstream society. 

I might have to do some prostelytizing of my own, if I had to face this type of self-righteousness on a daily basis. 

A young friend of mine chose to become gay.  It hurts but God can help those who truly ask and want His help.......My  friend died of  aids ABOUT 10 YEARS AGO.  He was so sweet and talented and it hurts alot that he made the choices he did.  . just keep praying for him, and I will too.   

  Well, here I sit at home, watching Dr. Phil....and todays show is something I can relate to. I am 19 years old and about 5 years ago, my father told me that he and my mother were going to get divorced.  We were the church going, happy, picture perfect family. At first, my dad never gave us (myself and 2 other siblings) a reason as to why they had decided to separate. However, 3 months later my dad came back home and told us. It was because he's gay. Now this was a complete shock for us kids, we had no idea. My mother on the other hand, knew for quite a few years, probably 3 years after they were married (they were married for 18 years total) but they had gone to therapists and psychologists, and tried to work through this. My dad never wanted to be gay. He wanted the wife and kids and a normal life. So he pretended and ignored his "nature" for the better part of his life. Growing up, he had never engaged in homosexual activities but said he knew he was gay ever since he hit puberty. Today, my father is happy, he's himself. And thats what counts. I'm happy for him and his partner because they're happy and no longer feel ashamed or something because homosexuality isn't the norm. 

    I couldn't imagine pretending for so many years and living a lie, just to please society and everyone else but myself. Ultimately only YOU are going to live your life, so live it on purpose and live it to the max, its up to you whether you make it a happy one or not! I don't think being gay is a "choice". Nor do I think its a "birth defect" or something like that. Its just the way some people are. You are who you are, so live it and love it. 

    Thats just my 2 cents... 

  hey guys- i am so sorry for you all.  You seem so confused and someone has deceived you tremendously.  True Christians ARE NOT JUDGING.  But leave it to the world, and we will all be led astray.  True Christians are only trying to help you understand the TRUTH according to GOD.  Many people say that the Bible does not apply to us anymore, or that SOME of it is true.  I am so sorry for those who feel this way and I WILL be praying for you!   God loves us all so much, and yes, he loves the homosexual, just as he does the alcoholic and the drug addicted crack parent.  Homosexuality is NOT something we are born with.  God made us, and He made us in HIS image.  Homosexuality is NOT merely an alternative lifestyle.  The dark one wants us all to beleive this, so that is the popular world thought.  The devil wants us all to be confused and turn away from God and not use our God given lives and resources for God's kingdom.  Do we really think that God, who made Heaven and Earth all of us, breathed life into us, sees past and future, and  inspired the writers of HIS HOLY BIBLE would only have them write what was pertinent for awhile?  NAH........ Please read ALL of these scriptures.......... Leviticus 18:22, Leviticus 20:13, Romans 1:26-27, Genesis 19:1-11, 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, 1 Timothy 1:8-10 

This world saddens me so much.  The devil will do all he can to confuse us and harm us and keep us from being used by God for God.  Homosexuality is only conquered BY God.  Only a pure heart truly wanting to change, being humble before him, can attain His help.  Only the heart matters to God, not  what our lips sAY.  He loves us so much and only wants a RELATIONSHIP with us.  Just talk to HIM honestly and humbly.  He will give you peace that passeth all understanding!!!!!!!!!! 

And as for the many religions of the world , well there is only ONe way to Heaven.  Jesus Christ.  Being a Christian is the only 'religion' ...........Jesus is the only way, and I am only saying this because it is the truth and I want to share it with all of you........ sorry if this offends, but the Bible , Matthew :24:4-8, 12-14 predicts this............ 

I will be praying for you  and that Jesus' truth finds those who need him 

"bonnieh" wrote: "You people need to go back and read the bible."  

Well, I do read the bible every day! I also have the quivalent of a Master of Arts in Theological and Historcial Studies (of the Bible) which I got on a transcript from an accredited university. Since I formally studied theology under university professors, most of whom had doctorates in Bible related studies and all of whom had masters degrees, I can also refer to myself as an "educated theologian." I don't know everything; but, I not only have a number of English translation Bibles in my home library, right next to the computer, I have the Old Testament in Hebrew and two versions of the Greek New Testament close at hand, also. 

"Bonnieh," you, and other "Bible-Thumping Proof-texting" people, need to learn how to study the Bible, not just read it, in its historical and culture context and consider the situation in which each book of the Bible was written and attempt to get an understanding of the world-view of each of the authors and the world-view of their readers at that time, too. 

In the study of literature (fiction or non-fiction and including the Bible's books), proof-texting is the taking a sentence, a paragraph, or even a chapter, out of its original context and mis-using that to to support one's opinion about something.  

The "Canaanites" and their religion, culture and lifestyles which are being discussed in Leviticus chapters 18 through 20 are called "Phoenicians" in most high school and college history books and in most encyclopedias, too.  

If "you people" who claim we don't read the Bible would actually read outside-of-the-Bible, aka extra-biblical, sources to understand the various non-Jewish/Hebrew/Israelite cultures and those people, called "Gentiles" in English Bibles, you will see that the scriptures you are using here in this discussion have absolutely no connection with homosexuals nor homosexuality.  

No author of the Bible condemned consensual same-gender sexual activity done by those who woud be exclusively homosexual in their sexual orientation, NOT literally; NOT figuratively! Jesus never did that either.  

The same-gender sexual activity that is mentioned in Romans chapter 1 takes place in pagan fertility temples. Paul writes that those men who lusted after each other did so after they rejected God as the Creator of all things and worshipped what was created, either by God, or by humans, i.e. false gods, instead.  

It was after that, God gave them up to untested/unproved minds (aka "reprobate" in KJV Bibles). Note that they REJECTED GOD FIRST!