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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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June 8, 2006, 8:59 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: hazel_eyes

basically, IMO homosexuality is "A sin" (grave, I don't know), and I personally (not just biblically), find it immoral and strange.  i don't hate gays in any way.  i dont have a fear of their lifestyle, i just cant support it.   their sexual preferences for the same sex confuse me.  i've never condemed them to hell nor called them vicious names.  but i have provided scripture only because its my spiritual job to do so.  i understand that some posters here are not spiritual and will not accept what they believe to be superstitions (bible and GOD).  its still my spiritual job to relay these things regardless of the backlashing that i may get. 

  

  

I have to agree with ya Hazel.  

  

Everyone is entitled to his/her own beliefs. No matter what scriptures you quote, people will not change unless they really want to. You have instilled the knowledge that God views their actions as wrong and it is now up to them to make a decision. I believe they have already; therefore, don't waste any more of your time and energy. You have already done the Lord's work and He is proud of you. 

  

Take care! 

 

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June 8, 2006, 9:06 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: hazel_eyes

basically, IMO homosexuality is "A sin" (grave, I don't know), and I personally (not just biblically), find it immoral and strange.  i don't hate gays in any way.  i dont have a fear of their lifestyle, i just cant support it.   their sexual preferences for the same sex confuse me.  i've never condemed them to hell nor called them vicious names.  but i have provided scripture only because its my spiritual job to do so.  i understand that some posters here are not spiritual and will not accept what they believe to be superstitions (bible and GOD).  its still my spiritual job to relay these things regardless of the backlashing that i may get. 

  

  

....ummm, maybe you didn't understand my question.  I get that you think that being homosexual is immoral.   I asked why gay marriage upsets you.
 
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June 8, 2006, 9:11 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: purplepain

Again...you missed the point. LOL

Here, I'll spell it out for you ok?

You said:

"...you on the other hand are going along with the popular vote..."

Then I said:

"Actually more americans are against gay marriage than are for it. That right there is a sign of what the majority thinks."

We are not talking about the government here. You accused someone of not thinking for themselves but going along with the majority. I showed you that YOU are the one in line with the majority, NO them.

Get it?

""


 the majority of germans were agaisnt jews during the holocaust. does that make it right?
 

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June 8, 2006, 9:14 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: gargoya

Certain people need to realize that Christianity is not the only religion nor lifestyle. It isn't superior, either. Every human being has a free will--- and as some might say, a god-given free will, yes?-- and with it, the right to act upon it. Condemning gays does not improve anything. It isn't going to change their sexual orientation. Of course everyone's entitled to have an opinion on the matter, or personally hate homosexuality, but you aren't going to change a person's sexual orientation. It really is a matter of just getting over it. Getting over the fact that it's their body, their life and their will, and that you can do nothing about it. How often do you see people fighting against straight marriage? No often, right? Or Buddhists or Pagans marching against christianity or islam? Probably never. Some, however, have the idea that their beliefs and their precious morals are the center of the universe. Your bibles and scriptures and hysterical statistics make the crusaders against homosexuality look like a parody of themselves. And for the record, no, I'm not gay. And no, I'm not a "devil worshipper" or whatever it is some are prone to assume.  

And I'm not really addressing gay marriage here; I'm addressing gays and their lifestyle, period.  

And can anyone guess why the fight against different lifestyles is completely and hilariously futile? Because a utopian society does not exist. You can't please everyone. So rather than wearing yourself out shrieking bible quotes or just being obnoxious, period--- the only logical thing to do is accept he differences, and express your opinions and opposition (in a CIVIL manner) if you must, and then move on. And for those of you that are violently against the gay lifestyle and would love to see them humiliated and/or forced into silence: put yourself in their position. Pretend you're on an alien planet where everyone is green and gay and you're in love with a man and they condemn and harass you for it. All the time. Then what? 

We can only base things on what we know or practice whether it be Christianity or another belief or lifestyle. I don't see how someone can discuss this issue without basing it on their personal beliefs.  It looks like everyone is doing so, yet Christians are getting bashed for their responses. We should all agree to disagree on this issue. Different views are what makes this world unique. It would be boring if we all agreed 100 % of the time. 
 

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June 8, 2006, 9:19 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: judyblue22

....ummm, maybe you didn't understand my question.  I get that you think that being homosexual is immoral.   I asked why gay marriage upsets you.
I think she did answer the question. She thinks the entire idea of homosexuality is immoral, thus gay marriage is immoral. Gay marriage falls under the general idea of homosexuality. Why would she find homosexuality immoral and say gay marriage was okay. It's a little contradicting.
 

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June 8, 2006, 9:37 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: xoxo06

I think she did answer the question. She thinks the entire idea of homosexuality is immoral, thus gay marriage is immoral. Gay marriage falls under the general idea of homosexuality. Why would she find homosexuality immoral and say gay marriage was okay. It's a little contradicting.

Actually, opposition to gay marriage doesn't follow logically simply because one considers homosexuality immoral. Even if I thought homosexual behaviour was immoral, I would still prefer it occured within a sanctified marriage than not. 

  

I happen to think a second marriage is immoral.  Jesus clearly said that remarriage while one's first spouse is living was a sin. [ He said to them, "Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. I say to you,  whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery."  Matt 19 7-9]   Yet, I would still prefer people to be allowed a remarriage to them being in a sexual relationship without marriage....wouldn't any Christian??? 

 
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June 8, 2006, 9:46 pm PDT

I hope you will consider this

Quote From: hazel_eyes

basically, IMO homosexuality is "A sin" (grave, I don't know), and I personally (not just biblically), find it immoral and strange.  i don't hate gays in any way.  i dont have a fear of their lifestyle, i just cant support it.   their sexual preferences for the same sex confuse me.  i've never condemed them to hell nor called them vicious names.  but i have provided scripture only because its my spiritual job to do so.  i understand that some posters here are not spiritual and will not accept what they believe to be superstitions (bible and GOD).  its still my spiritual job to relay these things regardless of the backlashing that i may get. 

  

  

Hazel, I would respectively like to use your words to illustrate a point, no offense is intended.  

  

You (and others like you) sincerely believe that it is your "job" to enlighten or educate any and all who don't share your view of God and the Bible.  I am a Christian so I understand where you are coming from.  The problem is that in doing what you believe you are called to do, you trample all over and disrespect the people on the opposing side of the argument who may feel that they have been called to an entirely different way than yours.   

  

The sad thing is that you think you are somehow helping these people, but instead 99% of the time you are just alienating them further from our God!  This is because to a non-Christian while you sermonize and demonize you are representing God to them.   And the way God comes off looking in these situations makes many say, "Why would I want any part of that God!" 

  

 I believe we Christians have the potential to help many more people find their way to God simply by the way we live our lives and conduct ourselves in dealings with every person we know or meet.   That means living a life of integrity, always respecting others, never gossiping or acting in petty, mean-spirited ways and showing real compassion and a caring love to all.  In other words, doing our best to model our behavior after Jesus.  Of course doing that day in and day out, 24/7 takes a lot of effort, sacrifice of ego and just plain work.  How much effort does spouting out scripture really take?  No much in my opinion. 

  

I wish some people would realize that being Christian does not equate to membership in some elite club with limited membership.  God loves us all and desires to be in relationship with each and every one of us.  We should be trying to help people that don't know God understand that, instead of hindering their desire to want to know Him at all.  

 

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June 8, 2006, 9:51 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: gargoya

Certain people need to realize that Christianity is not the only religion nor lifestyle. It isn't superior, either. Every human being has a free will--- and as some might say, a god-given free will, yes?-- and with it, the right to act upon it. Condemning gays does not improve anything. It isn't going to change their sexual orientation. Of course everyone's entitled to have an opinion on the matter, or personally hate homosexuality, but you aren't going to change a person's sexual orientation. It really is a matter of just getting over it. Getting over the fact that it's their body, their life and their will, and that you can do nothing about it. How often do you see people fighting against straight marriage? No often, right? Or Buddhists or Pagans marching against christianity or islam? Probably never. Some, however, have the idea that their beliefs and their precious morals are the center of the universe. Your bibles and scriptures and hysterical statistics make the crusaders against homosexuality look like a parody of themselves. And for the record, no, I'm not gay. And no, I'm not a "devil worshipper" or whatever it is some are prone to assume.  

And I'm not really addressing gay marriage here; I'm addressing gays and their lifestyle, period.  

And can anyone guess why the fight against different lifestyles is completely and hilariously futile? Because a utopian society does not exist. You can't please everyone. So rather than wearing yourself out shrieking bible quotes or just being obnoxious, period--- the only logical thing to do is accept he differences, and express your opinions and opposition (in a CIVIL manner) if you must, and then move on. And for those of you that are violently against the gay lifestyle and would love to see them humiliated and/or forced into silence: put yourself in their position. Pretend you're on an alien planet where everyone is green and gay and you're in love with a man and they condemn and harass you for it. All the time. Then what? 

I truly hope that you don't assume that people posting antigay tirades in any way represent Christianity. I am a Christian and I believe in and love the moral code given to us by Jesus.  It was very simple-love the Lord, your God and love your neighbour as you love yourself. 

  

Jesus sacrificed his life in a humble and forgiving way  purely in order to secure our salvation. Christians know that no one who believes in Him will be damned for their sins. 

  

He never taught us to thump the bible in the faces of people with whom we disagree nor did he ever support discrimination.  I suspect if he were here now, he would protect gay people from rabid homophobics the same way he did with the adulteress who was sentenced to be stoned.  It defames Jesus when his name is used in these anti-gay tirades. 

  

  

  

  

 

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June 8, 2006, 10:03 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: lucky24

Hazel, I would respectively like to use your words to illustrate a point, no offense is intended.  

  

You (and others like you) sincerely believe that it is your "job" to enlighten or educate any and all who don't share your view of God and the Bible.  I am a Christian so I understand where you are coming from.  The problem is that in doing what you believe you are called to do, you trample all over and disrespect the people on the opposing side of the argument who may feel that they have been called to an entirely different way than yours.   

  

The sad thing is that you think you are somehow helping these people, but instead 99% of the time you are just alienating them further from our God!  This is because to a non-Christian while you sermonize and demonize you are representing God to them.   And the way God comes off looking in these situations makes many say, "Why would I want any part of that God!" 

  

 I believe we Christians have the potential to help many more people find their way to God simply by the way we live our lives and conduct ourselves in dealings with every person we know or meet.   That means living a life of integrity, always respecting others, never gossiping or acting in petty, mean-spirited ways and showing real compassion and a caring love to all.  In other words, doing our best to model our behavior after Jesus.  Of course doing that day in and day out, 24/7 takes a lot of effort, sacrifice of ego and just plain work.  How much effort does spouting out scripture really take?  No much in my opinion. 

  

I wish some people would realize that being Christian does not equate to membership in some elite club with limited membership.  God loves us all and desires to be in relationship with each and every one of us.  We should be trying to help people that don't know God understand that, instead of hindering their desire to want to know Him at all.  

I really don't see where Hazel has disrespected or trampled over anyone. She just quoted scriptures. Using scriptures do tend to either help or distance an unbeliever. It just depends on the person and whether or not they want to change their ways. Christians are supposed to minister to the unbelievers. It is up to them either accept it or reject it. Hazel is not forcing her belief, she is just stating where she is coming from just as everyone else is. I agree with the last paragraph of your post, but Hazel has not hindered anyone's desire because they have not had a desire to begin with.
 

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June 8, 2006, 10:14 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: judyblue22

Actually, opposition to gay marriage doesn't follow logically simply because one considers homosexuality immoral. Even if I thought homosexual behaviour was immoral, I would still prefer it occured within a sanctified marriage than not. 

  

I happen to think a second marriage is immoral.  Jesus clearly said that remarriage while one's first spouse is living was a sin. [ He said to them, "Because of the hardness of your hearts Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. I say to you,  whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) and marries another commits adultery."  Matt 19 7-9   Yet, I would still prefer people to be allowed a remarriage to them being in a sexual relationship without marriage....wouldn't any Christian??? 

I think I see where you are trying to come from. 

  

I, personally, disagree with homosexuality (you probably could already tell). I can only speak for myself here regarding your post. What I was trying to say is that homosexuality is wrong in any shape or form.  

  

Marriage does not in any way make homosexuality right or not as bad as it would be if a couple were not married. Homosexuality is a sin, and will remain a sin whether one is married or not. You are looking at the marriage part, but that is not the complete picture.  

 
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