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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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October 19, 2005, 3:31 pm PDT

So a little boy wants to wear high heals

Dr. Phil, I truely do appreciate your show and many times find I can agree with you but today I can't help but say give your head a real good shake. 

If a little boy wants to play with dolls,(I refuse to call them girl toys because we shouldn't be labelling toys any more than we should be labelling jobs), what is he hurting. Many other boys play with dolls but because they portray war mongers every one calls it an action figure and says its O.K.  If you play with GI Joe you are still plying with dolls! 

This childs preferance for these toys will not make him gay I agree but The only persons his choice of toy seems to be affecting are the parents. Mom even stated she is a homophobe and has an ignorance when it comes to the issue of gays. Many grown men who are heterasexual like to dawn womens clothes, this doesn't make them bad people or criminals, so if he likes high heals so what. I bet if Napolean could have worn high heals he would have too. It wouldn't have made him any more gay than he wasn't. 

I think you would have done more good by suggesting that the parents relax and let thier child express himself and not get so hung up in thier own hang ups. If he did end up gay in the future, which I doubt he will, You will have done thier son a injustice for the sake of making mom feel like her hang ups are just fine. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 3:31 pm PDT

Here is a good chance to demonstrate our ignorance...

Unfortunately some gays are flamboyant attention seekers as well as anti-heterosexuals. I have met very few happy gays in my life.  Many of them have substance abuse problems and live through constant emotional turmoil. They do not, however, try to force their lifestyle on others. They have not mounted crusades to slaughter the disbelieving heathens in the name of homosexuality. They only seek acceptance. God bless them.  On the other hand, many  "christians"  I know are fanatical hypocrites who are determined to force their religion on everyone, and have little tolerance for those who would dare to be less fervent in their beliefs, though the different sects can't seem to agree on what those beliefs are. God bless them as well.  (My God is a kind, loving God.)  Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like they don't belong on this planet sometimes?  What happened to love and tolerance?  I don't recall Jesus dying on the cross for a select few, those few apparently having chosen themselves.
 

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October 19, 2005, 3:32 pm PDT

just need some clarification...

Quote From: kdaniels1

  I agree with you on that the bible clearly states that homosexuality is sin but Christ does condem them as well.  Granted he loves all but he will judge all as well.  We as true Christian need to reach out to all mankind as Christ did.  Gen Chp. 1 clearly condems along with other verses in the bible about being gay.  People who say they are Christian and still gay aren't and that is a fair statement because of the bible.  How can you be Christian and still gay.  It like comparing an apple and and orange.  I am against gays action not them, just like Christ. 

  

kdaniels1 

I agree that homosexuality is not condoned by God..but one of the things you said in your post didn't make sense to me so i must not be understanding you right. 

  

You said that a person who is gay cannot be Christian-i'm guessing because you mean that because a person is purposly choosing to do things that are against the commandments of God, then they cannot be Christian. 

  

Yet, that statement doesn't make sense-how many people do you know who tell a lie, yet still consider themselves Christian, or that have sex outside of the bonds of marriage, or who covet things that others have, or who do not love their enemies, or who worships the idols of wealth or homes or luxury items...all of these things are spoken of in the bible as being sins and acts not condoned of God. 

  

If we say, that a a gay person is not Christian because they are choosing to sin...then we implicate ourselves in that very statement-as we all choose wrong over right sometimes... 

  

  

 
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October 19, 2005, 3:32 pm PDT

I wanted to be a boy

My sister and I both wanted to be boys.  We had boy toys, our best friends were boys I even tried to pee standing up.  We asked our parents why they didn't make us boys instead of girls.  We grew up loving boys and neither one grew up to be gay.  I still appreciate men, love to be near them, like the things they like and I find them much more interesting than women.  I have been married twice and I have a daughter.  I look forward to meeting a man to love and maybe even marry again.  Oh, by the way, I am 61 years old and I never even once in my life thought I was a lesbian.  Please let your 4 year old be happy and for goodness sakes don't make a big deal out of it.  But, if it turns out that he is gay, so what, would he stop being your child?  I think a parent must love their  child unconditionally and hope that whatever they choose in life will be good and right for them not what the parent thinks is right..
 
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October 19, 2005, 3:33 pm PDT

Free will

The bible says that humans are born with FREE WILL. If people are born gay then how can they have free will? Homosexuality is not something you are born with nor is it genetic. It is something someone chooses to do, just like someone chooses to drink or smoke. The way I see it, if you have even a small doubt in your mind that something you are doing is wrong then you probably should not do it. So many people have taught themselves to ignore that little voice that tells you right from wrong. This is one of the many reason our country has become the way it is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and beliefs and no one should be put down for that. Everyone takes Christians the wrong way because they try to share their beliefs with others so that they may see the love and contentment God offers his children. Because they try to speak up and share the love of their savior people label them as rude. Sure there are those who try to force their opinions on someone else and although that is not the way I would go about it, I can almost promise you that they are doing it out of love for their fellow man. No true Christian wants to see anyone turn to the ways of satan and they are condemned for trying to share God's word. I find it very strange that Christian are put down for voicing their beliefs but if another religion feels that theirs should be heard then everyone is suppose to listen and accept it. Our country was based on the beliefs of Christianity so that is why it is considered unlawful to marry someone of the same sex. That shows you that God did not intend for a man to marry a man or a woman to marry a woman. So many people are so temped with the life style offered to non-believers that they find it so easy not to believe. Being a Christian in this day and age is not easy, but the good stuff never is.  

And for the question on whether or not you can be cured from homosexuality, I say yes. If it wasn't possible to over come a situation that you have put yourself in then that would mean that God was unforgiving. GOD IS FORGIVING and he wants all of his children to have a personal relationship with him. For all of those blinded by the way of the world, I pray for you. May God bless each of you so that you may see and feel the love and joyful feeling you have by becoming a Christian. It is the most peaceful and wonderful experience you will ever have. And the contentment that comes from knowing you have accepted Christ in indescribable.  

God Bless us all!! 

 
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October 19, 2005, 3:34 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

 She thinks everyone is against her now.  It doesn't matter how much love you show her, she will lash out at anyone with an opposing view toward her lifestyle.  What I want to know is why do so many homosexuals have this idea that tolerance equals a Christian's silence?  

  

As a lesbian, and having been a member of a very evangelical church who believe that homosexuality is a sin, I can see the diliema both ways.   

  

As a gay person, there is SO much pressure put on you to change, telling you how evil you are, devaluing your relationships with people you love dearly and how any relationship you have with God isn't good enough for your salvation (at least in Christian families).  Its hard enough when the world tells you this, but even harder when it comes from your own family.  Especially for gay people who until coming out had good relationships with their families, who depend on their support and affirmation as people first and foremost.  My own family is not supportive, and my mother in particular refuses to speak to me even on the phone.  This was a shock to me, as we didn't grw up in a church or particularly religious, my spiritual journy has been totally my own.  Not to negate the pain this must put my mother through or sound selfish, but for me this is extreemly hurtful.  As a young woman who wasn't finished discovering myself as a person and wasn't ready to lose the support of my family, there was a part of me that still needed affirmation from my family, as immature a need as that sounds.  And even if I was older and grounded in my self-identity, it wouldnt mean I would want to suffer the loss of the family I still love deeply.  The need for my family's love, support, and affirmation, as well as the fear of loss, would still be there. 

  

On the other hand I understand the importance an evangelical Christian puts on the need to witness to others and share their beliefs.  To such a person, they feel real and genuine love for other individuals ~ they are not all the gay bashers and fred phelps "God Hates Fags" variety.  And for those they love so much, they worry about how their beliefs conflict and the outcome for their loved one... who would want a love one to spend all eternity in Hell for making such a "choice."  (I try to remain sensitive to those who still hold my former beliefs, but I can not adhere to the concept that one would "choose" this life because mommy worked instead of staying home, and daddy wasan alcoholic).  And furthermore, who would not worry about sending forth a gay daughter or son out into a society like ours, horrible things still do happen to gay people.  And to heterosexual Chirstians who have found such love, peace, and happiness as a Christian and a heterosexual, it would follow that to have such love, peace, and happiness, and such a relationship with God, one must be heterosexual also. 

  

I also know something evangelicals and the gay community share, and that is the feeling that society wants to shut them up and make them go away.  I feel just as under attack stating views as a Christian as I do as a lesbian.  Furthermore, both groups feel attacked by society at large, the media, hollywood, other secular institutions, not just the attack coming from each other.  The need for tolerance goes both ways, yes Christians need to attempt to understand and tolerate the gay community, but much of the gay community need to try to understand where most Christians are coming from. 

  

With that stated, boundries must be put up.  They should be equal boundries, is whats important.  Now, Dr. Phil mentioned boundries on the show, I don't feel that are fair.  Possibly.  So the family in the piece thould attempt to not talk about sexuality of any of its members.  For the sake of maintain the family's relationship, I'll agree.  They should stick to common issues like family and politics. First politics... ok Dr. Phil, we have consevitive Christian family, lesbian daughter/sister.  Enough said about that bad idea.  But family.  This is good and important.  And I do admit, even though many would assume otherwise, that bringing home a continuous stream of girls home for religious family gatherings, expecting them to be accepted, is not sensitive to her family's beliefs and concepts of themselves, and generally is not a bright idea.  The woman is so caught up in wanting her families affirmation she is forcing too much on them.  Talking about the sisters husband and kids is important, especially since she has just moved, her entire day to day life is wrapped up in her family life and adjusting to her surroundings, she needs the support of her family through that.  Talking about the deceased father is important, he was the head of their house and an important figure of all of their lives.   

  

Now, eventually assume a day comes when this woman meets the woman that she will make a lifetime commitment to... when this day comes, will she be accepted as part of the family instead of just the womans "sex life"?  Will she be allowed to discuss her marriage/committment ceremony?  Will they attend?  Can she talk about the romantic thing she did to surprise her on their first anniversary?  Or the silly thing they discussed last night before going to sleep? At family gatherings, can they hold hands, or must they pretend they are roomates just so everyone is comfortable?  If her partner bears children, will they be considered part of this family?  Could she call her sister and talk about what little Johnny did today without "rubbing it (her sexuality) " in her face?  

  

This is the mindset of lesbians wanting total acceptance from their families ~ they want an answer to all this NOW, before it comes back to hurt them later.  In this case, the woman is a little premature in her worries, if shes still not at the point where thats an issue yet.  She should be focusing on trying to build and maintain a relationship with what she has ~ and what she has is obviously a very loving and concerned mother, and a sister who cares ~ even if she has a huge vendetta still carried from cildhood  rivialries. 

  

But what she needs in return from her family is a meeting in the middle.  Boundries should be clear and go both ways.  She needs the assurence that (like she tried stating) she will be treated like her sister, or as a straight person would be treated in the same situation.  No one needs to discuss their sex lives, but if she chooses a life partner, that partner should be treated and held in the same regard as the husband of her younger sister.  Despite the beliefs of the family.  She gives up more than many would realize if she tries to meet such a conservative family in the middle, they need to give back in equal kind. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 3:37 pm PDT

There is NO condemnation for those who are in Christ

God doesn't necessarily want to "cure" every homosexual in the sense that they will no longer experience any same sex attraction.  His ultimate goal for every one of us is to conform us to the image of His Son, Jesus Christ.  Many people who have sought help from ex-gay ministries still struggle because God wants them to draw closer to Him in the midst of the seemingly endless temptations they experience.  Most of us in life seem to spend more time in the "valleys" than on the "mountain tops" because we grow more in times of pain and hardship than in times of ease, comfort & pleasure.  When Jesus walked the face of the earth, He purposely hung around people who were considered "outcasts" in the society of His day.  He did so for a reason....because HE LOVED THEM!  We know from the Word of God that His character doesn't change.  As such, He still loves homosexuals, sexual addicts, prostitutes, the broken-hearted, the lonely, the dying, etc., etc., to this very day!  Praise God for His faithfulness....He is faithful even when we in our human frailty are not.
 
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October 19, 2005, 3:38 pm PDT

Boy toys vs Girl Toys

Quote From: danellemc

Don't worry so much about your little boy who plays with the girl toys. My son used to be like that, would rather play with a doll, make-up, etc. instead of the :"BOY" toys we would get him. I had two girls before him and that is all he knew, but my niece who lives very far away came to visit with her three VERY boy, boys.. my son seen them and how they played and with what. By the time they left my son was playing with cars and trucks and really enjoying it. He still likes to play with girl things, but he is now more involved in boy things.... so try having a boy over to play with him, one that likes to play cars and things... and see what happens. I am sure it is just a 'thing' and it will not stay forever.
 All little kids like to play with the same toys.  Why do you think they had to come out with boy dolls?  So the daddy's would not get mad their little boys were playing with dolls.  Little girls love playing with trucks as much as little boys - if she is given them to play with.  Both boys and girls usually grow up to drive a car or truck, or take a bus..  God made man and women (little boys and litle girls) different in their minds - and their bodies are made different.  If raised in love with  two parents that love them and teach them biblcal teachings - they will grow up normal and know right from wrong.  If  you go through a divorce - treat your spouse with respect in front of the children and men stay in the boys life, so he can identify with his own gender. I do feel sorry that this child was shown on TV - cause that could stay with them for the rest of their life.   I am GLAD that Dr. Phil had some wise and truthful things to say, that may just prevent anything negative becoming of it.  I don't think we should put our kids on televsion until they are old enough to consent to it.
 
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October 19, 2005, 3:38 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: frogsnagga

Well I can see you need help understanding how things work! Let me enlighten you with some knowledge....first of all mother earth didn't bless us with anything, God Blessed us with all these things you speak of,  I would hope you believe some things we Christians believe like how the bible says God created the heavens and the "EARTH", it's in black and white in the King James Bible! And if you just pick it up and start reading from Genesis on, you will start to see the truth and know the books of the bible was written by man, but the words and stories written were God speaking to these men whom he himself chose. And with that I will stop "preaching" as you would call it and leave you with something straight out of the bible, that is by the way God's words "1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NIV): "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters, nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God."    

And if that isn't enough to smack you to your senses, pick up the bible and search for the truth yourself. If you ever want to enter the kingdom of God then you have to do what God wants you to do and not what man tells you to do for whatever selfish reasons you have, whether it be pride or just plain denial. I thank God everyday that I have a breath because we are not promised another day, much less another breath. We are like a vapor, one minute we are here and the next minute we are gone. Pray my friend for salvation, because from what I read you are troubled and confused, seek and you will find.  God Bless you and I will pray for you.... 

Hmmm.  King James.  Who exactly was this King anyway and what powers did he have over creating a Version that fitted to his ideologies of how things should be? 

  

The bible seems more in line with the words of men than the love of an omnipotent God.  

 
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October 19, 2005, 3:38 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: melgibson

I do truly believe that it is a sin in the eyes of God - being gay that is...   

Anyone can pick up a bible and read that being a homosexual is a sin in the eyes of God.  Some say they can pray and nothing happens.  Are they a born against, blood bought Christian?  If they are - then keep praying.  God has three responses, Yes, No and Wait.  Just because something does not happen when and how you want it to does not mean that God is not listening.  My question is this:  (if you are praying to God) ARE YOU LISTENING to God?  That is the larger question.  God does not make any of us gay, he did give man (woman) FREE WILL.  And this is where so many get confused.  We have free will and CHOOSE to let the devil take ahold of our hearts.   

I have gay friends.  I do not judge them, but I do not choose to hear all aspects of their lives.  I do not share my sex life with my husband with them and I expect the same respect.  I had a gay friend that chose to NOT be a part of a marriage ceremony because the government would not condone her marriage to a woman.  I do not love her as a friend any less, I just pray for her lost soul.   

Leviticus 20:13 

Romans 1:18-32 

1 Corinthians  6:9-11 

I think it is sad that society wants out youth to think it is okay to make this choice 

May God bless you all 

M G 

You say it states in the bble that being gay is a sin, yet you also state that man has a free will, and here is my problem: 

  

It was man who wrote down the bible NOT god maybe by devine inspiration maybe not who knows, isn't it possible that some one might slip in a few ideas which served his own purposes? (remember we have free will) 

  

Furthermore the bible has been translated many times from it's original Hebrew to Greek to Latin and from there on into the modern languages don't you think there might something be lost in translation? 

  

And by the way didn't Jesus die for our sins? And why would you hate gays? Wasn't one of the ten commandments love thy neighbour? You say you don't hate gay people yet you say they are taken by the devil BY CHOICHE!!! You question there faith, that doesn't seem nice to me, you just hide your hate or fear behind religion. And that has happenend before with religion, suppression of the blacks for instance because they where not as "good" in the eyes of "god" to name one. was no more then hiding commercial interrest behind religion. 

  

And what you say that being gay is a choiche, well though straight I can assure you that it's not a choice to be gay otherwise I think there wouldn't be as many gays or do you think it is fun being scolded for being the devil all the time by the likes of you? That people are tring to change you into somthing they think is "normal"? Or not having the same rights as straight people? or having a smaller pond to fish from for a mate? 

  

America says it is a free country and it is, just not for everyone I guess otherwise gay marriage wouldn't have been such an issue and people wouldn't have to be changed all the time.  

  

I dare you to proof me wrong America! 

 
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