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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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October 19, 2005, 5:24 am PDT

You're a what?

Wow, I've read some of these and even posted a message myself.  I read and want to defend my stance on homosexuality.  However, there is another big problem here and it's not just homeosexuality.  I think it is the definition of "Christian" and who does God like and not like. 

  

Did you know that so many posts are so different?  Some "Christians" don't believe in the Bible, some "Christians" only go to church, some "Christians" condemn people for choices made, some people believe they are good and God will accept them. 

  

Wake up!  Are you really good enough for God?  And can you condemn someone in their sin and ignore your own?  A true Christian is someone "Christ" like, someone who acts as Christ would.  We'll never become Christ, however, being a Christian means handing over your control to Christ.  Are you prepared to do it?  If not, don't pretend to be a Christian. 

  

It's too bad so many people misunderstand and abuse the word "Christian".  Someday, we will see God face to face.  What will you say to him then? 

  

God loves you so much.  But you have to surrender everything: not just a homosexual lifestyle, but everything else.  It costs so much and yet will be worth everything when you finally get to meet God. 

  

Do you want a happy ending? 

 
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October 19, 2005, 5:40 am PDT

Its OK with me!

I think its fine to be homosexual.  I have friends who are homosexual and they are as great of people as any heterosexuals I know.   Sometimes, they are far better!    For me, there is nothing more endearing then a gay guy friend.  I just love them!  You can talk about all the guy stuff with them, have a ton of fun together,   and never  have to worry over them making the moves on you.    They are the best!  :)   

  

I find it ever so sad when people use God against homosexuals.  I hope everyone who finds themselves dealing with this kinda thing knows there are many churches who welcome homosexuals without placing judgements on them.  There are many different faiths you could check out if you have the desire.  If you wish to be involved in a church just search around and find one that welcomes you.  If you dont have that desire, I think thats fine too.  Just do what works for you and let others scream their opinions and judgements.  Between the two groups, homosexuals and those who use their Bible and their God against people, I will take the homosexuals any day of the week and twice on Sunday.  The religious judgemental ones are the people who scare me!   

 
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October 19, 2005, 5:42 am PDT

Change Is Possible~I'm Living Proof

  

     I was saved when I was nine. I’m the daughter of a Southern Baptist Preacher. In no way do I want to be disrespectful when speaking about my parents. I’ve forgiven them for the wrongs or perceived wrongs and I’ve asked for and received their forgiveness for what I have put them through. I only glance back enough to help you understand how satan built his arsenal, how he unleashed his attack and then built a stronghold in my life.

  

 

      Rejection and shame were pretty much the themes of my childhood. My mother was cold and emotionally detached. Just hugging was uncomfortable for her. I only remember one time in my life when my mother told me that she loved me and that was after I had attempted suicide with 2 bottles of pills at the age of 15. She may have said those words to me, but I don’t remember hearing them.

  

 

      My dad was a rageaholic, totally controlled by his inability to manage his anger. He was authoritarian and verbally as well as physically abusive to my mother, my sisters and me. Most days my home was like a war zone and there was always a battle raging.

  

 

      Compounding that problem was the fact that I was a very gangly girl, extremely tall for my age and terribly skinny. I would lie on the couch and cry about how skinny I was. My grandparents said my sisters and I looked like refugees or prisoners of war. Through most of my formative years, all through Elementary and Jr. High, I was berated with names like bean pole, telephone pole, ski slope nose and witches nose. There was no escape from the abuse.

  

 

      I became interested in boys at an early age, around 3rd grade, but they were not interested in me. In Jr. High I became more aggressive. My mother called me a “boy chaser” but in reality I was a love chaser.  Boys took advantage of that weakness and I became promiscuous and pregnant at 16 and then abandoned by the father of my baby.  No one at church was blatantly ugly but I remember the looks of disdain and the whispers as I walked by. The message came through loud and clear. I was the scarlet girl and was demoted from the preacher’s kid on the front row to the prodigal on the back pew.

  

 

       The rejection from my church family helped to create alienation between me and God. I blamed Him and drew away. I figured “if I couldn’t measure up and be good enough, I’d be as bad as I wanted to be.”   At 18 my daughter and I moved to Daytona Beach, FL with my best friend. I was pretty ripe for satan’s attack and plan for my life.

  

 

 

  

 

     I’d been:

  

 

Rejected by my mother

  

 

Abused by my dad        

  

 

Rejected by my peers

  

 

Abused and abandoned by boys

  

 

 SATAN HAD BUILT HIS ARSENAL

  

 

       Then I was invited to a gay bar and although I was very apprehensive, I allowed my best friend to talk me into going. The experience at the gay bar was surreal. It was unlike anything I’d ever experienced. One of the things that drew me in was how I felt totally accepted for exactly who I was. I wasn’t judged for my past and people were interested in ME. I felt like I belonged.

  

 

      It wasn’t long before I was seriously pursued by a very aggressive woman who had succumbed to homosexuality at a very young age. I’d never had that kind of attention before. It was usually the other way around with me sort of stalking guys. I don’t know how else to explain it other than, I just fell. That’s how sin is, a deep dark pit that we fall into when we walk too close to the edge of it. It really wasn’t that different from my promiscuity with guys. It wasn’t about sex. I was desperately seeking love and acceptance.

  

 

SATAN UNLEASED HIS ATTACK

  

 

       Well that relationship fell apart quickly. Not long after that my best friend and I moved home to Hendersonville. We found in Asheville a thriving gay community, which still exists. We became entrenched in it quickly and before long it felt like family.

  

 

      Amazingly my real family was changing and my own parents were wonderful grandparents. My mother was loving and affectionate. My dad was never abusive to my daughter. They took Tiffany to church on Sundays where she was saved and baptized. I myself didn’t attend church for years.

  

 

      Throughout that time my own grandparents were the one really godly example I had in my life. My Grandpa Pearson has gone on to be with the Lord, but I spent every summer with them from the time I was 5 until I was 15. I don’t ever remember a morning that I didn’t awaken to find Grandpa at the kitchen table studying his Bible. He was a choir member and a Deacon and spoke few words but when he did it was meaningful. They never treated me any differently. No matter what mess I got into they always loved me unconditionally. They truly did love me like Christ. I knew how they felt about what I was doing. They didn’t need to use words like abomination because they lived out their beliefs and faith.

  

 

      About a year after I’d embraced this homosexual identity, I met the woman that I would spend the next 8 years with. I felt what I thought was love. During the last few years of the relationship the discontent grew and grew. I was like a drug addict but the drug wasn’t effective anymore. I medicated that wound with everything you can imagine (drugs, alcohol, people, places and things, lots of things.) But I was still in pain, and I was still empty.   I remember lying on my couch late one night, everyone was fast asleep and I was crying and staring at the ceiling. I remember saying out loud “I know this is wrong, but I love her and I can’t leave. Please God,” I begged, “change my feelings so I can leave.”  I can hear his response as plain today as that night. “Leave and I’ll change your feelings.”

  

 

SATAN HAD BUILT A STRONGHOLD

  

 

      It was another 2 years before I had the courage to leave. I want to tell you about how my Heavenly Father wooed me back.

  

 

      My daughter was having her 10th birthday party, a sleep over. The next morning she came to me crying because some of the girls had made fun of her for having 2 moms. Believe it or not it was the first time that I realized how I was hurting my child. That’s how blind satan and sin can make a person.  That same weekend some of her friends were talking about Zacheus and Tiffany said “Who’s that?”  I said “you know Tiffany, the wee little man up in the tree looking for Jesus.” She shook her head. I could not believe that I had raised a child who didn’t know simple bible stories like Zacheus. I was mortified.

  

 

      I decided to rectify the problem by buying Easter dresses for me and Tiffany and visiting this church someone had told me about. I’d heard it was very friendly and great for kids. We went to Indian Rocks Baptist Church that Sunday and it was the warmest place I’d ever been. Within 30 minutes of arriving, people were hugging me, a stranger, and it felt like home. That very day, I gave my heart back to Jesus and joined the church.

  

 

      It wasn’t surreal it was SO REAL. The Holy Spirit filled me in a special way.  There was no way I could stay in that sinful relationship. The romantic affection and attraction I’d had toward her turned to an agape love. God was true to His word, and He’d changed my feelings. I became burdened for her spiritual condition. She wasn’t saved and I couldn’t play a part in her dying and going to hell.  We spent the next three days crying together. With her trying to talk me out of leaving and me trying to witness to her, but she just couldn’t hear me through her own pain. She eventually gave up and left. It was very hard. She’d been my best friend for 8 years.

  

 

      That was 13 years ago. Since then God has blessed me with a husband, Mark and with him I have experienced true love.  God has blessed me with two wonderful sons and four years ago with a gorgeous granddaughter, from my lovely born again daughter, Tiffany. As a matter of fact my entire family is saved!

  

 

      For the past 13 years though, I’ve also lived in secrecy and fear: fear of being found out and rejected all over again. So, I put on my church face; wore my mask week after week; and told God that I’d let Him use my past but only in one on one situations. Which almost never happens since most people with same sex attraction live in secrecy with it. I told God I wouldn’t go public with my testimony until the boys were grown. I didn’t even tell the boys.

  

 

      I never got really involved in church. I always played it safe. That is until I went to Mud Creek Baptist Church. Mud Creek was one church of my youth that held fond memories for me. My dad was ordained at Mud Creek. I was in GA’s there.  I remember pulling up behind what’s now the chapel and having church members load my parent’s station wagon with food when my Dad was in Bible college. It was a place where I did feel loved so it’s not surprising to me that it’s where the Lord has brought me back to for more healing and to serve Him. I tried to go there and play my same church game, but it didn’t work. The people were just too friendly, too loving, accepting and too real. When an Associate Pastor stood up in the pulpit and gave his testimony about having struggled with pornography, I knew it was a place where I could be real, where I could be me.

  

 

      #1           IT WAS reconciliation with God and getting to know who He really is, clearing up my skewed perception of Him that started my healing. Then reconciliation with my parents – forgiveness and compassion for the abuses that they themselves had endured that continued the healing process. The Lord showed me that hurting people hurt people. 

  

 

       My parents were hurting. God also helped me to see what contribution they had made to my life. Because of them taking me to church, I had heard the gospel and was saved. What greater thing can a parent do for their child?

  

 

      #2           IT WAS a loving church family first at Indian Rocks Baptist and then at Mud Creek that God used to show me who He really is and who I really am.

  

 

       You might be surprised to know that my healing did not come the day that I rededicated my life.  It didn’t come the day I ended that sinful relationship.  My healing has been a process over the past 13 years.

  

 

      God’s love and acceptance is what heals people. An intimacy with Him is the only cure.

  

 

      God is the Great Physician! His love is the cure!

  

 

      But He uses his people, acting as Nurses, Orderlies, EMT’s and Pink Ladies. Christian brothers and sisters walking hand in hand and side by side:

  

 

     Comforting, Encouraging, Providing, Counseling, Meeting Needs, Mentoring, Loving that promotes healing.

  

 

      Most of all, I hope what you’ve heard is that people struggling with a false identity, not understanding who they are in Christ or who God is, need your love so that they can fully experience God’s love.  

  

 

     They need the Truth, but they don’t care how much you know until they know how much you CARE.

  

 

     The Christian Counselor at my church has no idea how much her words of love and encouragement conveyed how much she cared when she called me a prodigy.

  

 

     I don’t feel like one, but I sure don’t feel like a prodigal anymore either! Praise God I’ve been Redeemed!!      

  

 

    JESUS REDEEMS HIS CHILD!   

  

 

  

 

  

 

 
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October 19, 2005, 5:44 am PDT

There is Hope

Because our child wanted help and didn't understand his feelings, we got him to a councilor. She devastated him by saying the very thing he had always feared. He had been told he was born gay, we were doing him an injustice by telling him he wasn't and he needed to live the life he was born to be. With fear in his eyes, he told us he wasn't going to be that way. He later found himself in a controlling, manipulative and physically abusive relation with an eleven year older man. This man actually held him captive much like an abusive wife by causing him to loose his job making him dependent on him and with threats of harm to his self, our son and the dog. Our child did escape and came home wanting another appointment  with another a different councilor that we had already seen and trusted. He wanted help so bad and saw this person on Monday afternoon. The next night the x-roommate, which had been stalking him, raped and murdered our son by strangling him to death with two different methods. Our regret is not knowing how to have help our child. If we have had access to the help and resources we know today we know the three of us could have responded in a  more positive way. Our son would would have been more confident he wasn't born gay after learning the many causes of homosexuality. We might also could have helped the person that took our only child's life. God has given us a passion to get the message  of hope to the struggler, family, friends and the church. We need to get  educated so we can help our loved ones in this area of same sex attractions. We are grateful for our son sharing with a friend that he was seeing the light at the end of the tunnel and he wanted God's will to be done in his life. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 6:25 am PDT

Who do you follow?

Quote From: tulseyjoe

Dack Rambo was bisexual. I saw him on a show hosted by Pat Boone and Boone tried to put words into his mouth. Rambo's sexual orientation did not change after he became a Christian. I found out about his not being exclusively heterosexual when he went cruising for same-gender sexual activity in a large Park in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles.  

  

On Boone's show, he refused to say negative things about gays. 

What Dack Rambo does or does not do is between him and God.  Who ever would follow after a simple man will surely be lost or mis-lead.  All fall short of the glory of God.  That's why we need a savior as Mr. Rambo does also.  As a Christion, I am called to be a follower of Jesus Christ, as all Christians are, and strive to live this life after His examples.    

  

So many folks base their decision about Christianity on what "people" are doing.  And reject Christ because of their hypocricy.  Well, guess what?  We all are hypocrits at one time or another...because we're sinners. That's why God gave us Jesus.  Because He loves us, and because of that great love that he gives, we should try to be better, and seek after righteousness.   And there is no better example than Christ. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 6:33 am PDT

A long essay from the Peanut Gallery

One essay about my views on the various issues involved with homosexuality – directed at no one. 

  

1) Physical issues. 

  

First off, I do not believe in the supposition that homosexuality is physically driven. I believe that any such statements are based on agenda-driven research. This would be investigations where the researcher has already determined what he or she wishes to prove; at which point they set about providing supporting data while ignoring any data that actively contradicts or does not support their theories. 

  

That being said, there are no other inherent physical issues involved with homosexuality as a whole that does not also exist in hetrosexual relationships. Issues of disease or injury due to various practices exist equally in all categories of sexual relationships. 

  

2) Mental issues. 

  

If one is to examine the matter impatially, one should be fair: one should be equitable in their examination of both relationships. I believe that homosexuality is mentally based; so is hetrosexuality. We develop our orientations based on our experiences and what we have come to value. Hetrosexuals have developed their preferences based on that which is different. Homosexuals have developed their preferences based on that which is the same. 

  

This is all behavioral in nature. People who seek a physical or biological answer to these issues ignore the strength of learned behaviors and preferences. While not carved in stone, once a behavior is established, it is incredibly difficult to adjust, especially those with which we associate pleasure. Just ask any over-eater, smoker, drug-addict, or alcoholic. Now: I am not equating homosexuality with drug addiction. Note that I have put both orientations on the same and not suggesting that either is ‘abberant’. I am saying that we develop our sexual preferences based on our experiences; and once established, it is a difficult thing to challenge. 

  

3) Social issues. 

  

Largely, homosexuality should be a non-issue socially. It is unfortunate that people on both sides of the issue are so entrenched in their views and unwilling to grant any concessions to the other, that there is no effort being made to calm or defuse the matter. For example: marriage is a hot issue because many religions consider the act to be a sacrament. An easy concession would be to legally allow civil unions, which would grant homosexual couples equal social rights with hetrosexual couples. Whether a church acknowledges them or not is up to the church in question; and it is the greatest wrong for advocacy groups to protest the Roman Catholic church, or any other church for that matter, based on their beliefs and tenets. These are churches – they are not charged with civil equality, but with providing moral guidance and serving greater powers than men. You may not agree with them, but if you wish to have your rights respected, you must offer the same respect to others. 

  

I do not approve of the way many advocacy groups place such an emphasis on bringing homosexual relationships into the public view. Such relationships are supposedly between two consenting adults, and I really wish they’d keep it there. I consider this to be a reasonable view, as I don’t approve of sexually-based advertising or entertainment, either. I have seen a few cases where the entertainment industry has treated the issue of homosexual relationships with a casual responsibility. I wish there were more. 

  

The one social issue where this becomes problematic is adoption. This is not due to any legal issue, but rather it is based in a concern for the proper development of the child or children in question. Supposedly, much of how children learn to relate to others as adults is based on how they relate to their parents. When both parents are of the same sex, the child will be challenged regarding how they will relate to other adults of the missing sex. 

  

4) Spiritual issues. 

  

I can only deal with Christianity, because I am a Christian and therefore have directed my attention to research into the Christian scriptures. I have often found that, like biological research, all study into the scriptures and their context has been agenda-based. Fundamentalists seek and highlight those passages which establish homosexuality as a sin, while homosexual advocates seek to explain away with context or dismiss those passages. 

  

As far as I know, Jesus never spoke on the topic. He spoke on social justice and responsibility often, and he expressed a great deal of love for all – especially sinners. He never spent much time defining any sin, however, as that was already done in the Hebrew Law. Rather, he sought to bring love and understanding into the lives of others; along with his greater mission of Redemption. 

  

That being said, Jesus also never dismissed the Law. Sin was sin, and sinners were charged with changing their lives. While scriptural passages dealing with homosexuality are few and far between, they do exist and they are extremely pointed on what they say. I personally reject any efforts to dismiss scripture. Those things that I believe in that are contrary to more traditional or fundamentalist views are based on scripture, without dismissing or explaining away any part of them. 

  

  

These are my views. You are welcome to your own. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 6:43 am PDT

I disagree with you

Quote From: dunskygirl

I have great respect for Dr. Phil and I admit that I'm not trained in psychology but I must disagree with the advice he's given to parents about 'retraining' their children. Parents have written to him about their 4- and 5-year-old boys, who like playing with girl toys and dressing up. He tells these parents to buy gender-neutral toys, and toys aimed at boys, and to encourage them to play with these instead of with their dolls. He says, "limit access to [girl toys," and "take the girl things away." It seems to me that our biggest job as parents is to accept our children for who they are; to help them discover who they are from the sidelines, but not to push them to be someone WE want them to be. So your son likes playing with dolls- does that make him worth less as a little person? Is he any less your son? If it is truly just a phase, he will come out of it on his own. if not, he deserves no less than 100% of your love and acceptance. We should want HAPPINESS and FULFILLMENT for our children, whatever form that takes.
Your child wouldn't be playing with dolls and girl toys if you didn't give them to him or put them out for him to play with. No, I wouldn't love my children any different but I'm not going to put dolls and barbies and other girl toys out for him to play with either.
 
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October 19, 2005, 6:50 am PDT

gay's

read the bible. the king james bible. in the bible god made adam and eve, not adam and steve. it is a sin to be gay . but god will judge you , people should not judge you. that's not there job, but to live for christ for their self. but when god comes to get us and take us back home with him .when god judges the first gay and he or she does go to hell, what will you feel like. and also where in the bible does it say it's all right to be gay in god's eyes. if by some chance my children grow up to be gay, i will still love them, but i will always talk to them about god, and going to heaven or hell. but it is a sin of the devil just like halloween is the devils birthday.             dardendunn
 
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October 19, 2005, 6:54 am PDT

Thanks, Dr. Phil

 Thanks, Dr. Phil, for shining a little light on this.

I've been a Christian for nearly 20 years and my relationship with Christ grows stronger each and everyday. I happen to be gay. It's unfortunate that my brothers and sisters in Christ would reject me and seek division in the Body of Christ because we disagree on the interpretation of a small number of verses.

No one chooses to be gay. Why would anyone? It's not always easy. But, it's not the result of trauma or abuse. I have always had a wonderful relationship with both of my parents (who are still married to each other). I was never abused in any way. I wasn't a "girly" boy growing up (I liked GI Joe and Hot Wheels). There wasn't one single "cause" in my life that ex-gay proponents would try to point to.

I thank God for the freedom that is found in being honest with myself and others about who I am. A life of hiding my true identity from others resulted in me feeling alienated from my friends and worried my family would discover my secret. As I prayed to God, asking Him to set me free, I never imagined that freedom would come through finally accepting myself just as He made me.

Can you be gay and still be a Christian? YES! I'm living proof. And I'm also the director of a ministry with nearly 3,000 other people who are also living proof. Drop by and visit with us at www.gcoministries.net.
 
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October 19, 2005, 6:54 am PDT

98% correct, Dr. Phil.

Dr. Phil, you are a very bright, connected man (I can say that because I agree with you 98% of the time:). Today I worried that you would take the typical Hollywood stand that "Everything Goes" and Christianity is all wrong. However, you got to the bottom of the REAL issue (typical, normal sibling rivalry and children wanting their parents' approval on everything) and handled the discussion well. The Christian women were right on the mark; you can't pick and choose which of God's teaching you'll follow. Life is not easy and it is especially not easy for homosexuals; it's the cross they bear. Love the sinner, hate the sin. God created homosexuals but condems their behavior if it involves acting out on their homosexual feelings. Yes, it's that simple. The young woman wants everyone to accept her actions (and her politics) and her mother and sister are correct for loving her but not accepting her actions. The family should be able to heal...with more help provided by you and your show.  

  

WHERE YOU AND I DIFFER, Dr. Phil, is when you referred to Hollywood and their pushing of the gay lifestyle as "cutting edge." There is nothing cutting edge about the secular and other anti-Christian people who believe that "everything goes." What they push on our society (premaritial sex is fine, teen sex is fine, abortion is fine, drinking is fine, drugs are fine, adultry is fine....etc) is NOT "Cutting Edge." Instead, it's irresponsible, harmful (especially to our impressionable youth) and just plain pathetic. There are few role models in Hollywood. It's a society that has worked hard to discredit anything religious and anything based on strong morals and values.  

 
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