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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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October 19, 2005, 8:45 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

 Anyone interested in this subject may also be interested in the Gay Marriage Debate under the heading "News and Current Events".

Justin, (if you're still here) as a Christian, you are likely able to somehow reconcile the verses concerning homosexuality.  But is there anything in the Bible anywhere that you can find that promotes the gay lifestyle or condones it in any way?  Especially marriage...
 
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October 19, 2005, 8:46 am PDT

Kudos to you

Quote From: openmind1

 

Of course you can be gay and Christian! Perhaps not a fundamentalist bible Christian like a conservative evangelical, Pentecostal, JW, SDA. Southern Baptists or Mormon but  they are NOT the ONLY Christian organisations in America. Why are some people on this board assuming they speak for Jesus and for ALL Christians? You don't! There are MANY Christian organisations that welcome gay people and treat them with respect and allow them to worship and participate free from harassment and persecution. They don’t hide behind, “Love the sinner hate the sin” nonsense either. Some Christian groups that welcome gay people are: Church of the Brethren, Church Women United, Dignity/USA , Episcopal Church , Evangelical Lutheran Church in America , The Interfaith Alliance , National Council of the Churches of Christ USA  National Council of Jewish Women , North Georgia United Methodist Conference, Presbyterian Church (USA) ,  Unitarian Universalist Association , United Church of Christ , United Methodist Church , Young Women’s Christian Association and the Quakers.  These religious organisations accept what modern science and over 50 years of research says on homosexuality. They do not preach that gay people are perverted or any more sinful than anyone else. They do not support ex-gay programmes! They recently joined with the American Psychological Association and more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals, to make a statement denouncing it as psychological fraudery and abuse. Do some Christians here know where the idea for conversion camps for gay people first originated? NAZI GERMANY. Go research it. Is that what followers of Christ want to get involved in? Fraudulent threatments that damage people?  

 

  

 

 

I know there are some fundamentalist Christians on this board who take Leviticus and Paul’s letters to the Romans and Corithians 2000 years ago as LAW, demanding slavish obedience to them. They act like Jesus never came and set us free of laws and traditions and as if Paul IS Christ himself when he is nothing more than a human servant and a sinner no greater than you or me. See Romans 7: 17-25. His letters are no more than his feelings, experiences and advice to a specific people at a specific time in history. If we are to follow his personal letters to early churches as LAWS then we deny Christ. In addition, Paul said, in Romans 14:5 “Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.” In other words, USE YOUR BRAIN and THINK FOR YOURSELF.  

 

How can you be a Christian and when you worship the bible as the final authority and not Christ. It is not the bible that is GOD's WORD. Jesus is God's WORD. The bible is a collection of Jewish law, geneologies, history, poetry, gospels and letters put together by the Roman Catholic Church and cannonized as scripture around 369AD. It is a tool to be used with discernment and in the RIGHT context. All the bible does is serve as  a spiritual guide that points the way to Christ. JESUS IS THE WORD OF GOD. To worship ANY OTHER THING as the word of God is idolatry. Only Jesus is "The word of God made human (flesh)" (not words) in John 1:14. The ONLY figure ANY Christian needs to follow is Christ. And what did Christ say when people asked him “Who are the ones who will be with you in heaven?” or ‘Who will get eternal life?”  See Luke 10:25-37.  What is the ONE commandment Christ ever demanded we follow? See: Matthew 7:12. Christ said this commandment fulfills the ENTIRE LAW and PROPHETS.  

 

These bible worshipers think by idolizing the bible as God word instead of following CHRIST as GOD's WORD, they can predict God’s mind on EVERYTHING and use the bible to judge others. They can EARN salvation and see themselves as righteous. They do not realize the danger they put themselves in. Why? If you judge by the Old law, so will you be judged by God that is what Jesus Christ said in Matt 7:1-2. The truth is NOBODY can follow the entire bible perfectly. Yet, these sects ask their followers to follow bible laws literally or according to THEIR interpretation in order to prove they are Christians.  Folks this is called fundamentalism or extremism. They are making a mockery of the FREE GIFT of God’s unconditional love. Remember! Jesus came to liberate people from hopeless bondage to legalistic judgmental abusive religion. Jesus IGNORED religious laws that did not show human consideration for the greater good and he asked his followers to do the same. That is why the Pharisees hated him. See: Mark 2:23-28 and Mark 3: 1-7.  

 

Should we Christina place ANY OTHER burdens or rules on others other than the commandments Jesus gave? NO. Jesus warned some would do so in Matthew 23:4 and they are nothing but blind guides who put religion over humanity. Bottom line, if we are to be imitators of Christ, we are to experience freedom. Jesus said, “My yoke is light.” in Mathew 11:28-30. So being a Christian should never a burden. It should be a JOY! It should be freedom for the heart and soul, refreshing the spirit. If you are gay and in a sect that is causing you to experience self-hatred, suicidal thoughts, rejection, isolation, etc. then you are not in a religious sect that is following Christ but their OWN fundamentalist agenda. They are Pharasees! Remember Jesus said, “The way they treat the lest of my brothers is the way they treat me.” My gay brothers and sisters in Christ, you are loved by fellow Christians like myself and there is a place for you in God’s heaven where Jesus said there are MANY mansions. ONLY GOD KNOWS YOUR HEART! Do not listen to those who would appoint themselves masters over YOUR faith; just remember your only master is Christ. 

 

 

God Bless!.

  

 

  

  

 

  

  

It is so refreshing to read an intelligent, articulate response to the many fundamentalist opinions. I live in the Bible belt and I mostly hear the closed minded , judgemental opinions of the literal  

extremists. -- so, God Bless YOU!!! 

 
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October 19, 2005, 8:46 am PDT

YEAH JUSTIN!

Quote From: gcnjustin

Hi everyone! This is Justin from the show. (I was the guy with the shaved head who said it is okay to be gay and Christian and that ex-gay ministries don't work.) This wasn't mentioned on the show, but I'm also the executive director of an organization called GayChristian.Net, which is a national nonprofit organization for gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgendered Christians.I'm happy to respond to any questions about my position on the issues and my ministry; you can also learn more about us on our website, which is linked right here from the Dr. Phil homepage.
I just want to say...YEAH!!! I am not gay and can't even begin to understand what it must be like for you but I do have many friends who are and have seen first hand the price that is paid by them for the ignorance of others...I just wanted to say congrats to you for being yourself and not letting anyone elses beleifs change who you truely are...
 
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October 19, 2005, 8:51 am PDT

My son also came out at 15

Quote From: mstraceyag

Recently my 15 yo son came 1/2 way out of the closet by saying that he is "bisexual".  This wasnt surprising to me at all because I have been prepared for him to tell me that he was "gay" since he was 3 yrs old.  What concerns me is the kids at school.  I have told him that I dont care who he shares this information but was afraid that the homophobic males will hear that he is "gay" and not "bi".  Guess what, someone in one of his classes had access to the chalkboard prior to my sons arrival and wrote, "Trevor's Gay".  He told me what happened in class afterward and my heart broke that he wasnt ready for this.  Im SCARED of what the future holds for him while he figures it all out.   

  

By the way, Im not a believer of the "bisexual" sexuality.  Either you are or your not! 

My son didn't come out as bi, he just came out as gay.  And what told me that he knew what he was saying was the way he worded it.  He didn't say "mom, I think I'm gay."  He said "mom, I'm gay and I've felt this way for as long as I can remember and I'm just tired of hiding it."  There was no question in his voice or the way he worded it.  I also worried about my sons acceptance at school because he goes to a VERY small school and it's full of country people where you'd think acceptance would be less than elsewhere.  Boy was I wrong.  The friends at school have given him overwhelming support.  Where you notice the lack of acceptance is in the adults...at school and in town.  But he's doing ok I think.  He known we love him and has our support because he is a good person.  I would love to talk with you....maybe we could be support for each other.
 
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October 19, 2005, 8:58 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: maybell

Why do i need to know what a person's sexual orientation is?  Why is necessary for me to know the intimate details of a persons sex life.  I don't care!  Please spare me the gory details.  This sex soaked society has really gone too far.  The Bible says that homosexuality is wrong.  That's it.  Period.  Get over it already.  That may hurt certain people's feelings, however God wrote it and He must have had a good reason foe doing it.  He is omnipitant afterall.  if you have a problem with that, then that would YOUR problem.  Homo's need to get over themselves.  I don't hate any one.  Just because i think it's wrong doesn't mean i hate the people doing it.  My daughter does wrong things sometimes and i don't hate her and i never will.

God didnt write the bible, as you have stated...he inspired men to do it for him ... and, i might add, made alot of mistakes in doing so...(the gospels cant even agree on what day Jesus was killed, what his lineage was, or how many miracles he actually did)...so, since God's messages have errors in them, how can you fully believe those parts about homosexuality?  Maybe the writer fluked..maybe he added it in himself. 

  

I dont know, but for a God who is suppose to be all loving, he seems to be pretty choosy on who he wants to love.  My problem is this...He made DNA right?  Obviously, cause he makes everything.  Within DNA are the instructions for growth, instincts (such as sexual attraction), and homeostasis.  Now, it has to be obvious that he obviously made the genetic variances we see in scientific studies of homosexuals...right?  (If you are going to say science is wrong or bad then turn off your computer cause thats science, dont take any medications cause that is science too)  To add to this, everything that God makes has to be perfect...why?  Because God himself is suppose to be perfect and everything that comes from something perfect has to be perfect in and of itself or the maker is imperfect.  Since DNA is perfect then, it leads that homosexual genetics are also perfect.   

  

Also, homosexuals DO NOT need to get over themselves.  They need to be accepted.  You need to get over homosexuality.  It is not wrong....are you ready for this...it is natural!  Yes, it is natural.  Many species of animals perform homosexual acts... now, you could say, well thats animals and we are people.  To this i say...what Kingdom do people fall in...is it the plant kingdom?  The fungi kingdom?  NO, its the animal kingdom....We are all animals and we exhibit homosexual tendencies sometimes just as other animals do.  There are reasons for these acts but based on your "intelligent" arguement you posted i think the explainations may be to complicated. 

  

p.s.  I pray your daughter never comes home to tell you she is gay.  Not because she would be gay, but because you would tell her she is "wrong"...  

 
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October 19, 2005, 8:59 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: hokypuk

 I'm curious.  Did you sit down one day and say to yourself "Okay, I need to decide whether I'm heterosexual or homosexual"?  If it's a choice, as you say you believe, then you should be able to tell me the exact time/day you decided and how you came to that decision.

As for me, I am straight.  I do NOT believe it was a choice.  That's the way I was born.  The way God intended.  Who are you or these so-called Christians to judge anyone else?  My younger brother is gay and he has the right to live his life the way he sees fit just like everyone else.

Please don't bother to respond with quotes from the Bible.  I believe in God, but I do not believe in organized religion - because they interpret and use the Bible to their own ends.  You've obviously lost the will to think and speak for yourself.

I couldn't have said it better!  I am striaght and didn't just decide one day that I thought I would be.....as much as my 15 year old son didn't just decide one day to be gay.  That's just who he is, as much as who I am is his mother!  Thank you for putting it so short and sweet...hopefully more people will understand! 

 
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October 19, 2005, 9:01 am PDT

The Truth About Ex-Gay Programmes

Nazi Germany was where "conversion camps" for gays was first thought up on a massive scale. Homosexuals were forced to wear pink triangles and taken to camps where they were humliated, tortured, drugged with electro-shock therapy and other methods. They would then be "tested" for sexual arousal response to homo-erotic images to see if these "treatments" worked. Those that failed were tortured, lobotomized or killed. Needless to say, because homosexuality just like heterosexuality is inherent, almost all the people in those "conversion" camps were killed or lobotomized. What does this tell us? That being gay NOT merely a lifestyle choice like tennis or an addiction like smoking. It is an inherent psycho-sexual trait that the person cannot help. 

  

What do the EXPERTS say? The people who have been studying human sexuality for over 70 years? The medical professionals , child psychologists and more. The American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Counseling Association, the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological, Association, theNational Association of School Psychologists and the National Association of Social Workers, together representing more than 477,000 health and mental health professionals have all taken the position that homosexuality is not a mental disorder and thus there is no need for a “cure.” In addition these are their findings:  

  • Homosexuality is not a mental illness or sexual dysfunction (like pedophilia). The American Psychological Association removed homosexuality from its list of mental illnesses since 1975
  • Homosexuality poses no ethical or social danger to society. The average gay person is just as well adjusted and productive a citiizen as the average straight person provided they are met with respect and treated with dignity.
  • In 1998, at its December 11-12 meeting, the American Psychological Association Board of Trustees unanimously endorsed a position statement opposing conversion therapy. According to the 1998 position statement: "The potential risks of 'reparative therapy' are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone 'reparative therapy' relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction.The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed.Therefore, the American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as 'reparative' or 'conversion' therapy which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon a prior assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation." 

  • There is yet no proof of an independently confirmed homosexual turning into an independently confirmed heterosexual. NONE. It means that no homosexual who was tested and confirmed by three or more independent medical professionals as 100% homosexual (and not bi-sexual or sexually compulsive or dysfunctional heterosexual) has been proven to change into a 100% hetersexual as tested and confirmed by three independent medical professionals.  

  • The ONLY proof the ex-gay programmes have comes from first person testimony from people highly motivated to believe they have changed. These are very unreliable. In addition, increasing studies show that when the majority of so called "ex-gays" DO submit to independent testing it is revealed that they have NOT changed their sexual orientation, only their outward behavior. They admit that desiring the same sex is still what comes instinctively to them and they still have to try to surpress it.  

Whether unintentionally or deliberately, ex-gay programmes dishonestly misrepresent all homosexuals the SAME WAY. They also do not recogize bi-sexual ity is different from homosexuality. They claim bisexuals have changed when the truth is the person just chose to stick to one gender and they CAN do so easily because they are attracted to BOTH. Case in point- Anne Polk,  poster girl for Exodus an ex-gay ministry. In "Love Won Out", Anne admitted that she always did have attraction to men. She admitted she felt sexual desire for a man named Mark when she was younger. "He appealed to me sexually," Anne writes. "We were drawn together by sheer animal magnetism."  THEREFORE ANNE WAS NOT TRULY GAY TO BEGIN WITH!!! She was bi-sexual. It was misleading and irresponsible for Exodus to represent her as a exclusively as a homosexual who had turned strait when she was not. This the PROBLEM many of these ex-gay ministries have. They are run by quacks with no standing in the wider medical and scientific community. They catagorize "homosexual" VERY broadly. If a man engages in sex with men, they call him a homosexual, even if he may be a heterosexual doing it for money, a sexual compulsive or a bi-sexual. They also believe that if you change a person's superficial behavior, it means you have made them heterosexual. WRONG! Being gay has NOTHING to do with having sex or choice of lifestyle. A person can be gay and a virgin or married with children, or single and sexually active. Perhaps the most revealing failure of the ex-gay movement is when the very people who FOUNDED these programmes now speak out againt them. Cases in point:   

  • Michael Bussee and Gary Cooper helped to start Exodus and then realized that they were hurting and not helping gay people. They now speak out against the lies and hypocrisy of the organisation
  • John Paulk, the ex-gay guru working with Exodus and Focus on the Family appeared in a full-page ad with a group of "former homosexuals" under the headline "We're standing for the truth that homosexuals can change". Later in September 2000, John Paulk was found "fraternizing" at Mr P's, a well-known Washington, DC, gay saloon. He was fired from his position and the organisations swept it under the rug
  • Wade Richards, an ex-gay spokesperson who worked with right-winger Peter LaBarbera, has now come out of the closet and denounced the ex-gay ministries.
  • Jeremy Marks, the leader of the ex-gay group Courage, acknowledged that ex-gay ministries do not turn people from gay to straight. He is part of a new ministry that caters to helping and healing gay Christians from religious abuse

Now these are just the LEADERS and FOUNDERS and well known spokespeople of the ex-gay movement. This does not even begin to cover the high failure rate, suicide rate, broken homes, financial loss (parents spend BIG bucks to send their children to these programmes) broken marriages (when gays are made to enter straight marriages that inevitably fail) and the bizzare and often inhumane and ridiculous "therepies" used. Everything from electroshock to demonic exorcisms. If you want to find out more, try Wayne Bessen's well reasearched- ANYTHING BUT STRAIGHT- UNMASKING THE SCANDALS AND LIES BEHIND THE EX-GAY MYTH.  In addition go to http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts.html for the facts and research as well as the American Psychological Association's website at www.apa,org and search "Homosexuality Facts" 

 
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October 19, 2005, 9:04 am PDT

Adding to this...

Quote From: tammyo1973

Is it ok for a straight man to go to parks to seek out underage girls? 

  

Your comment is quite ignorant and if you think this way you are very naive. 

  

I am not gay, nor do I know any gay people persoanlly, but what I can tell you is that being a pedophile is not the same thing as being gay. 

  

My x-husband who is very staright molested my daughter... he is a pedophile, not a gay person.. 

  

You need to do some research and get some knowledge. 

  

Just my two pennies. 

  

Tammy 

... I want to point out that childhood abuse, whether its physical sexual or mental, does not a homosexual make. 

  

I know many  victims of childhood sexual abuse, more then a few victims of physical abuse, and some victims of verbal abuse.  Not a one of the people I know have turned gay because of their childhood abuse.  Matter of fact, the homosexual friends I do have, came from far better families then the heterosexual friends I have(including the people I know from abuse groups ive been involved with). 

  

So there is a myth that should be put to rest along with all homosexuals are pedophiles.     

 
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October 19, 2005, 9:06 am PDT

You're okay and so are we all!

 
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October 19, 2005, 9:10 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: dbrrtt1

I had a great childhood... my father worked to support the family, my mother was a stay at home mom, both were major parts of my life and I had great relationships with both, I had two sisters, no brothers, no access to "boy" toys, hate physical activity, love reading, crocheting, sewing, cooking, scrapbooking, prefer "dressing up" in skirts and dresses instead of pants, was baptized into the United Methodist Church after giving my life to Jesus at 17, was never abuse, raped, bullied, or given any reason to fear a man.  Im a blonde headed blue eyed big busted intellegent, caring, fun, sweet girl who never lacked the abilty to get attention from men I just don't want it!  I've read the Bibile, studied, have my own personal relationship with God, and found that He and I both are happy with me the way that I am, why is that threatening to other people?  Is His blood not great enough to cover all sins, including the sins of homosexuals (not to be confused with the percieved sin of homosexuality)?  We have freedom of religion in this counrty, and my religion, Christianity, believes I was made in God's image, that Im fearfully and wonderfully made, that I was known and loved before my conception.  Why do others seek to devalue me and my relationship with my Creator?  If you have been to an MCC church you would see the truth, beauty, and genuiness of these men and women's faiths and relationships with God.  Their beliefs on salvation, the blood of Christ, the meaning of the cross, are no different the the beliefs I was taught to hold dear in the United Methodist Church.  Who is it that gets to decide that these people can't be "real" Christians, can't have a "real" meaningful relationship with God, can't be saved, that their whole spiritual experience is utter falsehood?  Why is it that God can't really be speaking to the souls of His Homosexual children and whispering to them that they are ok the way they are?  If this was a real big issue in Gods eyes, wouldn't the Bible have more than a few highly debateble (especially in English translations)  mentions of homosexual sex, and why doesn't it mention at all the concept of stable, loving, monogamus homosexual relationships or marriages.  And why doesnt God tell his children in the MCC and other affirming denominations of Christianty that what they are doing is wrong?  The only people telling gay people they are wrong is other people.
I agree!  My 15 year old was raised in a loving family.  Never abused or neglected and always had family around.  He was doted on as the only grandchild for some time.  And I don't think my son needs to be SAVED from anything!!  He's a GREAT kid and I couldn't have asked for a better kid!  He doesn't do drugs, drink, have sex, skip school or any of the things that some parents have to worry about.  He studies hard in school and thinks about college!
 
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