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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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October 19, 2005, 2:12 pm PDT

On Point

One comment that is frequently made by straight people in discussions such as those on the show was a comment made by Dr. Phil himself.  To his gay guest, he said something to the effect that being gay is not the totality of who she is.  Although it's technically true that a person's sexuality is not their entirety, as a psychiatrist I'm sure Dr. Phil knows that a persons sexuality PERMEATES the whole of who they are.  It is a tremendous influence on  what interests them personally and professionally, how they dress, how they vote -- in total, how they view the world. 

  

As a result, when a gay person is communicating with a straight person WHOSE OPINION IS IMPORTANT TO THEM, such as sister to sister,  it's not unusual to reach out by trying to make the person realize just how much their sexuality adversely affects their every day life.  Of course, sexuality has just as much impact on the straight person, but in a society where one is in the majority, the straight person  is usually not aware of how their sexuality affects their every day life because, by being in the majority, straight people do not live with an awareness that many people do not enjoy the rights they take for granted.  The rights to a lawfully recognized relationship, the rights to equal tax treatment, the rights to visit and speak for a hospitalized partner, to adopt, to hold a job, to borrow, to live where you choose, to announce your beloved to the world, etc. are all affected by being gay.  Indeed, our presidents have never spoken in favor of limiting straight people's rights.  The churches we all grew up in never threatened to bar straight people from their congregations.  The families we love never throw out their straight teenagers for being straight. 

  

So when Dr. Phil says that being gay is not the totality of who we are, although technically true, for all practical purposes, it is not true.  And to be aware of this fact is what gay people virtually ACHE for the straight people in their lives to share. 

  

As for the issue of flaunting it, the guest's point that straight people flaunt their sexuality much more was lost in the discussion.  We see this flaunting in every TV show, movie and storefront window.  From at least the time a boy or girl reaches dating age (if not before), there are constant references to whom he will marry, how and where she will attract a husband, etc.    When the match is finally made, there's the engagement party and the wedding to which relatives and friends are invited to celebrate the relationship.  The government sanctions the union with a marriage license and over 1000 separate rights which are conferred on the couple by virtue of their lawful union.  From that point on, they are introduced as their partner's spouse and don't even go to the supermarket without a ring identifying them as being in a heterosexual relationship.  If they walk down the street holding hands, or kiss each other good-bye at the train station, they do not have to look around first to see if there is anyone present who might show their disapproval,  visually, verbally or violently, and so, they don't even think about the fact that they can and do walk down the street, or say goodbye, while flaunting their relationship.  Has Dr. Phil ever recognized that his sexuality is showing when he leaves the stage holding his wife's hand?  Gay people notice. 

  

After 16 years of Christian education, I came to the conclusion of what I had known since I was 4 -- that I am gay.  The world only made sense to me in that context.  After spending decades in mediation-related work, I have learned first hand that you have not convinced a man because you have silenced him.  People need to be free to speak the truth of their lives.  It's all well and good to be "tolerated" by society.  But those who love them, must not just tolerate, but truly know, and celebrate them, for the relationship to be nurturing.  This is true for both sisters who were on the show.  They each need to be able to speak the truth of their lives to each other.  Dr. Phil used a wonderful technique on another show earlier this week when he asked a husband and wife to verbalize the other spouse's point of view.  These sisters could both benefit from that exercise.  I pray for softening of their hearts toward each other, and their success in renewing their sisterhood. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 2:12 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: patsi1

I was raised in the Catholic church.  

 My 28 year old son is gay. 

 I was so upset with the mother of the 4 year old who may have gender identity issues.  Let me say that my son played with "boy toys" his entire life.  It bothers me that this mother says that she will not be able to accept her child if he grows up and is gay. 

  

When you have a child, you hope that he or she is healthy and happy.  You hope that he or she grows up to be a teacher or a doctor or a humanitarian who changes the world.  NO parent has ever said "Gosh I hope my kid is gay when he/she grows up."     

  

If that mother feels this way NOW, what kind of message is that going to send to her child as he comes to realize that his mother might not LOVE him if he doesn't live up to her expectations of what kind of man he becomes?  

  

I've been there, done that.  I love my child more than life.  I love the PERSON that he is.  He knows how to love.  He's a happy, productive man.  His sexual orientation is part of that PERSON.  Forrest Gump's mom said it all... "Life is like a box of chocolates..."   

  

  

If any of my 4 children come to me someday and tell me they are gay this will be my answer " I will love you no matter what" But, that does not mean I will ever agree with you, I will be here for you and I will pray for you, you are always welcome in my home but I will be accept you bringing a gay partner into my home. 

  

Now, I love my kids but why do I have to change my beliefs because one is gay? Just because my brother chose to live with his wife before they got married did not make it O.K. and they knew how I felt, I was saddened and did not agree with them, did it mean I did not love them? No way but we all have a right to our beliefs, I don't think its fair that if my child were to be gay that all of a sudden I have to accept that??No way, nor would I be ok if they had sex before marriage, lived with a spouse before marriage, etc. etc. I can love my child but I most certainly do not have to agree with them nor do they have to agree with me. I am not o,k. with man and woman living together outside of marriage and I'm certainly not o.k. with man and man having sex or woman and woman having sex but that is me and my faith, why is it that gays in America have to throw it in our face? It's like "you have to be o.k. that I'm gay" well, no, actually, I don't and you don't have to like that I'm straight, etc.  

  

  

 
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October 19, 2005, 2:13 pm PDT

Is there more than one type of homosexual

From everything I have heard on both sides of this issue, I feel that there are homosexuals who have an emotional genesis and there are also those that are biological.  The gay men  and women who have been changed are of the first type.  Those who cannot change  are of the second.  Whether or not this is true, I KNOW ONE THING FOR CERTAIN,  I have not been given the right to judge any of God's creatures.
 
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October 19, 2005, 2:14 pm PDT

Re: Choosing to be gay

Quote From: tazzdemon

Why anyone in todays world would or could choose to be gay.. People do not choose to be gay..They are born that way.. Thank God that when my son at age 14 decided to tell me I didnt think like most of the world does.. Yes gays face different challenges than most.. I think instead of downing gays and makin gays feel bad or that its wrong we should deal with it.. I love my son NO matter what.. He is blood and I want him to be happy. He is facing challenges that are gonna be tough on him but I WILL ALWAYS BE BY HIS SIDE AND HELP HIM WITH HIS DECISIONS. We should love one another not judge one another.. And yes im bisexual.. People need to grow up and learn more on this matter before some speak what I consider "STUPID" opinions.  

It's not that anyone "chooses" to be gay or not, or that they are born that way or not (personally, I don't believe THAT poo), but that they "choose" to act on those desires.
 
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October 19, 2005, 2:15 pm PDT

I am a creation of God

I am a creation of God, and I am proud.  I am also a gay woman in the middle of Catholic hypocrisy.  I do not believe in man-made religion that uses God as a means to hide its own homosexual pedophilia, and then in the same breath hate and discriminate against all who don't agree with every word these self-proclaimed "holy men" speak.  Where does their God stand on that issue?  Where is the outrage in the Catholic Church? 

  

I don't believe in religion, I believe in spirituality.  Spirituality comes in many forms of belief, not just those which Christians find righteous.  I love my fellow men and women and disapprove of all hateful and mean-spirited behavior.  I will never hurt another human being or animal but will treat all creations as sacred.  But to many, regardless of my inner love, I am an abomination in the eyes of their God.  This is why these Christians have no ground to stand on and preach their "morals". 

  

I have been in a monogamous, committed relationship for 11 years this Friday.  This is longer than both my and my partner's parents were married.  Heterosexuals have not set the bar for successful relationships or marriage and not all homosexuals are promiscuous like the first guest on today's show.  I found that guest as appalling as straight people who sleep around and are proud of it.  Sleeping around is a problem that spreads across the globe, in both gay and straight people and both men and women.   

  

I found Dr. Phil's show to be pretty worthless in shedding light on any causes.  He never spoke up about anything, he never risked alienating anyone by offering any pyschological insight about how hard it is to be homosexual in this increasingly homophobic, religious-controlled society.  The only thing positive he said for gay people is to the first guest about her not being worthless... big leap there.  How did this show help teenagers in high school struggling with who they are?  Who did this show help?  No one... it came off as depicting homosexuality as something that is curable and can be ignored amongst family members... this is so far from the truth.  I have lost complete respect for Dr. Phil.  He did not stand up for people being pyschologically abused everyday in the name of God.  God has nothing to do with it.  People do and Dr. Phil is usually about calling people on their misconceptions.  He failed today. 

  

Being gay is part of our Creator's plan and those of us strong enough to follow the path set out for us will be rewarded for our strength and courage, as will those who offer love and support.  Hate will not be rewarded, no matter its disguise. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 2:15 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: tammyo1973

But didn't Jesus die for our sins? 

  

Isn't that why we take communion?  

  

Aren't we taught to love EVERYONE? 

  

Aren't we told the only Judge is God? 

  

People who keep saying it is a sin to be gay, tell me you live a sinfree life? YOu have never once broken a commandment of God or a law? Breaking any type of law should be viewed as a sin. So you don't speed? You stop and pick up that piece of paper that falls from your purse while digging your keys out?  

  

I think we need to be respectful of ALL people and things around us and let our God be God. Quit judging people.   

  

JMO 

  

  

i wish more"christians" would let there light shine the way you do. You really hit the nail on the head
 
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October 19, 2005, 2:16 pm PDT

openmind1

Okay, there ya go, Jesus Himself said "But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.  For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife; And they twian shall be one flesh:  so then they are no more twain, but one flesh."  If He felt it was acceptable for man to "marry" man and woman to "marry" woman, He would have certainly mentioned it here.  NOWHERE in the Bible does it talk about same sex relationships being of God. 

  

And for those of you thinking we are putting our ways "on you", please don't take our conversations as though you should have to join in.  If you have other views, feel free.  If you believe homosexuals are acceptable to your "gods", etc., then so be it.  But, if we are speaking of the Word of God, one is dead wrong beliving homosexuality is of God. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 2:16 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

I know that religion is important to people, but it is the word of something written hundreds of years ago.  Cultures have changed, world views, thoughts, etc... Religion should not be making people as biased as they are 

  

"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and three hundred sixty two admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision."
~ Lynne Lavner  

  

By the way, I'm a 16 year old girl.  I've recently come out to most of my friends bi-curious/bi-sexual.  People do need to understand the pressure on gay/lesbian/bi/transvestite people.  Its taken me four years to accept it myself.  It was hard enough coming out to my friends (several who are anti-gay).  It makes it easier on all of us if people can just be accepting and open to how others live their lives 

 
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October 19, 2005, 2:16 pm PDT

wow

Quote From: tammyo1973

But didn't Jesus die for our sins? 

  

Isn't that why we take communion?  

  

Aren't we taught to love EVERYONE? 

  

Aren't we told the only Judge is God? 

  

People who keep saying it is a sin to be gay, tell me you live a sinfree life? YOu have never once broken a commandment of God or a law? Breaking any type of law should be viewed as a sin. So you don't speed? You stop and pick up that piece of paper that falls from your purse while digging your keys out?  

  

I think we need to be respectful of ALL people and things around us and let our God be God. Quit judging people.   

  

JMO 

  

  

I ssssooo agree with you 

nicely said! 

 
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October 19, 2005, 2:17 pm PDT

On Point

One comment that is frequently made by straight people in discussions such as those on the show was a comment made by Dr. Phil himself.  To his gay guest, he said something to the effect that being gay is not the totality of who she is.  Although it's technically true that a person's sexuality is not their entirety, as a psychiatrist I'm sure Dr. Phil knows that a persons sexuality PERMEATES the whole of who they are.  It is a tremendous influence on  what interests them personally and professionally, how they dress, how they vote -- in total, how they view the world. 

  

As a result, when a gay person is communicating with a straight person WHOSE OPINION IS IMPORTANT TO THEM, such as sister to sister,  it's not unusual to reach out by trying to make the person realize just how much their sexuality adversely affects their every day life.  Of course, sexuality has just as much impact on the straight person, but in a society where one is in the majority, the straight person  is usually not aware of how their sexuality affects their every day life because, by being in the majority, straight people do not live with an awareness that many people do not enjoy the rights they take for granted.  The rights to a lawfully recognized relationship, the rights to equal tax treatment, the rights to visit and speak for a hospitalized partner, to adopt, to hold a job, to borrow, to live where you choose, to announce your beloved to the world, etc. are all affected by being gay.  Indeed, our presidents have never spoken in favor of limiting straight people's rights.  The churches we all grew up in never threatened to bar straight people from their congregations.  The families we love never throw out their straight teenagers for being straight. 

  

So when Dr. Phil says that being gay is not the totality of who we are, although technically true, for all practical purposes, it is not true.  And to be aware of this fact is what gay people virtually ACHE for the straight people in their lives to share. 

  

As for the issue of flaunting it, the guest's point that straight people flaunt their sexuality much more was lost in the discussion.  We see this flaunting in every TV show, movie and storefront window.  From at least the time a boy or girl reaches dating age (if not before), there are constant references to whom he will marry, how and where she will attract a husband, etc.    When the match is finally made, there's the engagement party and the wedding to which relatives and friends are invited to celebrate the relationship.  The government sanctions the union with a marriage license and over 1000 separate rights which are conferred on the couple by virtue of their lawful union.  From that point on, they are introduced as their partner's spouse and don't even go to the supermarket without a ring identifying them as being in a heterosexual relationship.  If they walk down the street holding hands, or kiss each other good-bye at the train station, they do not have to look around first to see if there is anyone present who might show their disapproval,  visually, verbally or violently, and so, they don't even think about the fact that they can and do walk down the street, or say goodbye, while flaunting their relationship.  Has Dr. Phil ever recognized that his sexuality is showing when he leaves the stage holding his wife's hand?  Gay people notice. 

  

After 16 years of Christian education, I came to the conclusion of what I had known since I was 4 -- that I am gay.  The world only made sense to me in that context.  After spending decades in mediation-related work, I have learned first hand that you have not convinced a man because you have silenced him.  People need to be free to speak the truth of their lives.  It's all well and good to be "tolerated" by society.  But those who love them, must not just tolerate, but truly know, and celebrate them, for the relationship to be nurturing.  This is true for both sisters who were on the show.  They each need to be able to speak the truth of their lives to each other.  Dr. Phil used a wonderful technique on another show earlier this week when he asked a husband and wife to verbalize the other spouse's point of view.  These sisters could both benefit from that exercise.  I pray for softening of their hearts toward each other, and their success in renewing their sisterhood. 

 
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