Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

  Well, here I sit at home, watching Dr. Phil....and todays show is something I can relate to. I am 19 years old and about 5 years ago, my father told me that he and my mother were going to get divorced.  We were the church going, happy, picture perfect family. At first, my dad never gave us (myself and 2 other siblings) a reason as to why they had decided to separate. However, 3 months later my dad came back home and told us. It was because he's gay. Now this was a complete shock for us kids, we had no idea. My mother on the other hand, knew for quite a few years, probably 3 years after they were married (they were married for 18 years total) but they had gone to therapists and psychologists, and tried to work through this. My dad never wanted to be gay. He wanted the wife and kids and a normal life. So he pretended and ignored his "nature" for the better part of his life. Growing up, he had never engaged in homosexual activities but said he knew he was gay ever since he hit puberty. Today, my father is happy, he's himself. And thats what counts. I'm happy for him and his partner because they're happy and no longer feel ashamed or something because homosexuality isn't the norm. 

    I couldn't imagine pretending for so many years and living a lie, just to please society and everyone else but myself. Ultimately only YOU are going to live your life, so live it on purpose and live it to the max, its up to you whether you make it a happy one or not! I don't think being gay is a "choice". Nor do I think its a "birth defect" or something like that. Its just the way some people are. You are who you are, so live it and love it. 

    Thats just my 2 cents... 

IF YOUR FAMILY WENT TO CHURCH THEN YOUR DAD SHOUDLD KNOW THE BIBLE SAYS (LEVITICUS 18:22) THOU SHALT NOT LIE WITH MANKIND AS WITH WOMANKIND IT IS ABOMINATION. 

(MARK 10:6,7) BUT FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE CREATION GOD MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE 

                            FOR THIS CAUSE SHALL A MAN LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND CLEAVE TO HIS WIFE. 

Why is it so hard for so many on this site to understand that not everyone is a christian and not everyone is a born again christian. 

I happen to be Native American and am proud of my heritage-- ethnic and spiritual.  My culture doesn't condem people for living how they are made.  We don't believe we own our children-- meaning we can not chose their path for them-- we can only guide them.   

 We have nothing in common with fundamentalist christians when it comes to belief systems.  Many in my community have embraced a spirituality (christianity) which DESTROYED our culture and way of life.  It's a very sad thing.  But I suppose when you are confronted with "Convert or die"  many do choose to accept the conquerers way of life. 

So, when you all start going on and on about what your god wants from all people of the earth, all I can do is shake my head at your ignorance.  For isn't that what you do when you are confronted with traditions different from your own? 

I believe the Earth is the mother of us all, and that we are destroying our mother.  Can't you hear her screams?  But do I tell you SUV driving, 6000 square foot house living, polluting non-bleievers that you our murdering our mother?  Isn't that more important that who someone loves?  No, I don't.  Not generally, anyway. 

My tribe has a cultural history of accepting all among us as brothers and sisters.  Including those who do not fit into traditional gender roles.  Including those who are attracted to those of the same sex.  It's all around us on mother earth.  All mammal species show same sex attraction.  While it is not the norm, it is not unnatural. 

You do not get the right, because you call yourself a christian to comdemn people who believe other than you do.  And you sure don't get the right to make the laws that affect us all according to your religion. 

You surely do not have the right to impose self-hatred and self-loathing on people being true to their born selves. 

I'm so thankful I live in a part of the country where I do not have people like the visitors on this board trying to convert me to their religion. 

And all of this judgement day stuff is a little confusing.  I remember that less than 20 years ago, that kind of reasoning was only used by doomsday cultists like Jim Jones or David Koresh.  It's frightening to me how many seemingly sane Americans have fallen into the doomsday cult mentality. 

I could really get into the jesus rhetoric if more pople who claimed to be christians quoted the Sermon on the Mount insteas of leviticus. 

I am not gay, but I have had the pleasure of knowing many gays, lesbians and transgendered people throughout my lifetime.  I am the richer in spirit for it. 

And I almost for got.  For those illogical people who claim that god doesn't make mistakes?  What about people born transgendered?  In  the US, the birth rate of people with ambigous genitalia (intersex) is about 2% of live births.  So those people are not mistakes?  I don't believe they are and according to your logic, you shouldn't, either.  But then that doesn't fit your worldview of two genders and strict gender based societal roles. 

I long for the day we all get past out superstitious knee jerk reactions to those who are different.  I am hopeful though.  It was only a little over a hundred years ago that the official US government position on my people was 'the only good indian is a dead indian.' 

Maybe someday the attitudes I'm seeing here toward those who are gay/lebian/bisexual/intersex/transgendered are just as abhored by mainstream society. 

I might have to do some prostelytizing of my own, if I had to face this type of self-righteousness on a daily basis. 

But didn't Jesus die for our sins? 

Isn't that why we take communion?  

Aren't we taught to love EVERYONE? 

Aren't we told the only Judge is God? 

People who keep saying it is a sin to be gay, tell me you live a sinfree life? YOu have never once broken a commandment of God or a law? Breaking any type of law should be viewed as a sin. So you don't speed? You stop and pick up that piece of paper that falls from your purse while digging your keys out?  

I think we need to be respectful of ALL people and things around us and let our God be God. Quit judging people.   

JMO 

Why is it so hard for so many on this site to understand that not everyone is a christian and not everyone is a born again christian. 

I happen to be Native American and am proud of my heritage-- ethnic and spiritual.  My culture doesn't condem people for living how they are made.  We don't believe we own our children-- meaning we can not chose their path for them-- we can only guide them.   

 We have nothing in common with fundamentalist christians when it comes to belief systems.  Many in my community have embraced a spirituality (christianity) which DESTROYED our culture and way of life.  It's a very sad thing.  But I suppose when you are confronted with "Convert or die"  many do choose to accept the conquerers way of life. 

So, when you all start going on and on about what your god wants from all people of the earth, all I can do is shake my head at your ignorance.  For isn't that what you do when you are confronted with traditions different from your own? 

I believe the Earth is the mother of us all, and that we are destroying our mother.  Can't you hear her screams?  But do I tell you SUV driving, 6000 square foot house living, polluting non-bleievers that you our murdering our mother?  Isn't that more important that who someone loves?  No, I don't.  Not generally, anyway. 

My tribe has a cultural history of accepting all among us as brothers and sisters.  Including those who do not fit into traditional gender roles.  Including those who are attracted to those of the same sex.  It's all around us on mother earth.  All mammal species show same sex attraction.  While it is not the norm, it is not unnatural. 

You do not get the right, because you call yourself a christian to comdemn people who believe other than you do.  And you sure don't get the right to make the laws that affect us all according to your religion. 

You surely do not have the right to impose self-hatred and self-loathing on people being true to their born selves. 

I'm so thankful I live in a part of the country where I do not have people like the visitors on this board trying to convert me to their religion. 

And all of this judgement day stuff is a little confusing.  I remember that less than 20 years ago, that kind of reasoning was only used by doomsday cultists like Jim Jones or David Koresh.  It's frightening to me how many seemingly sane Americans have fallen into the doomsday cult mentality. 

I could really get into the jesus rhetoric if more pople who claimed to be christians quoted the Sermon on the Mount insteas of leviticus. 

I am not gay, but I have had the pleasure of knowing many gays, lesbians and transgendered people throughout my lifetime.  I am the richer in spirit for it. 

And I almost for got.  For those illogical people who claim that god doesn't make mistakes?  What about people born transgendered?  In  the US, the birth rate of people with ambigous genitalia (intersex) is about 2% of live births.  So those people are not mistakes?  I don't believe they are and according to your logic, you shouldn't, either.  But then that doesn't fit your worldview of two genders and strict gender based societal roles. 

I long for the day we all get past out superstitious knee jerk reactions to those who are different.  I am hopeful though.  It was only a little over a hundred years ago that the official US government position on my people was 'the only good indian is a dead indian.' 

Maybe someday the attitudes I'm seeing here toward those who are gay/lebian/bisexual/intersex/transgendered are just as abhored by mainstream society. 

I might have to do some prostelytizing of my own, if I had to face this type of self-righteousness on a daily basis. 

 When my son was 2 and put on my nylon knee highs and my high heels and prances around in his blue diaper I took pictures and tought it was cute.  When I would catch him with my lipstick all over his mouth, again, I thought it was cute.  Then when he got a little older I would find girly panties from my sister's house (she has girls his age), stuffed in places in his room.  His brother that is 16 months younger, never did any of this though.  This behavior has continued.  Everyone said it was a phase.  Even today, Dr. Phil said that it is more than likely to be a phase.  My son turns 16 next week.  Last week we caught him dressing up in a g-string.  We are contantly finding lingerie hiden in his room, which he has stolen from other peoples homes and such.  I have tried talking to him about.  I have told him that I want to understand, that I am not upset or mad.  But I did tell him that the stealing needs to stop.  If he is having gender issues we will deal with it, but I won't condon stealing.  

My point is this, I don't think it is always a phase.  I am upset and torn about what to do to help my son and me to understand this all.  I don't know if he is gay or not, that wouldn't matter to me.  But I do want him to learn to accept himself and understand his gender and his preferences if that is the case.  I am so lost and confused by it all. 

I am a Christian, not a Paulian.  I read the entire Bible, not just parts of it.  Of course, Jesus would say nothing about gays not entering heaven, you said that was not "invented" until the 18th century.  And I believe in "Loving God with your whole heart. . ." you will in turn follow his divine direction.  So, are you saying that repentence is not necessary? 

I'm using the NIV, but the King James has it as well when the KJ uses fornication, it is referring to the sexual act between two people who are not married.  Since the Bible refers to a marriage as being between a man and a woman, this act is simply not possible.  Now, I understand there are people who simply live together with others of the same sex and do not perform any sexual act, but that is not the case for the majority. 

Why should "catamite" be condemned?  According to your ideas, as long as they "Love God with their whole heart. . ." they will get eternal life.  Gosh, I could do just about anything and get eternal life?  Ya, I don't think so. 

I believe, as well (though you may call me a Genisisian) that God created Adam and saw that nothing was fit for his companion other than the creation of a woman has GREAT significance. 

Who is bickering?  I'm certainly not.  I just am so sorry that people are deceived by the ways of satan.  It is very easy to fall victim to  his ways.  I, on the other hand, am FAR from being a victim.  Yet more a victor.  Jesus Christ allows this for me.  And to answer your last question, I'm CLEARLY a Christian. 

tselb2 

If gays cannot be healed of their behavior, then there's no hope for bulimics, alcoholics, or anyone else suffering with the other afflictions the Bible speaks of as sin.  Of course God can, does and will heal gay people.  To disagree is to limit His power to do just what He promised-to deliver us from all evil.  But there's a caveat-"If we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive us". When did Gay become OK, and holiness become optional? Sure we all have free will, but there are always consequences -good and bad, to every action.  Has anyone gone to the Bible to see what it really says about homosexuality. It seems that there are three camps in America: Those who believe that the Bible is true AS IS, not to be "interpreted" ; those who completely reject the Bible as truth; and those who feel the two aforementioned sides can be blended by synthesizing personal opinions and relativistic morality (based on something other than absolute truth).  But what does the Bible itself say?  Why hasn't anyone said the real truth about homosexuality? HOMOSEXUALITY IS A SPIRITUAL ISSUE!  IT IS NOT CHOSEN, NOR IS IT GENETIC.  There is no evidence to support the genetic theory, nor do I believe that you can just up and change your sexual attraction anymore than an alcoholic can just stop drinking.  Even if there were scientific evidence to support the genetic link, that stil wouldn't make it right, anymore.  Think about it-there is a proven genetic predispositon to alcoholism, but no one is marching in the streets for the right to be drunk-genetics don't excuse the behavior.  There are a few who turn away from their sin of choice cold turkey because God instantaneously delivers them, but for most everyone else, we have our own personal crosses to bear.  Paul never had his thorn removed-he learned to live with it WITHIN the confines of Gods Word.  For the homosexual, that may be struggle with same-sex desires til the day he or she dies, it may mean celibacy.  For the straight adulterer, it may mean strict accountability everyday, all day.  But there are plenty of ex-gay people who have struggled and won-and they are living the hetero life they never thought they could.  I once heard a preeminent physician who specializes in treating transgendered people say something that can be applied across the board in the 'sexual orientation' arena: "We have patients in their 20's who come to us weighing 78 pounds at 5' 8', who truly believie that they are overweight, obese even.  In their minds and hearts you cannot convince them that they are not overweight-their behavior reflects this in purging and or not eating, etc. Similarly, if a person thinks they are gay or transgendered, they may really believe that, feel it and act on it,  but just like the bulimic or anorexic, that doesn't necessarily make it so, nor does it make it right".     Homosexuality is called a 'familiar' spirit in the Bible, one of those sins that can be passed through generations just like the Old Testament says-a generational curse.  That would explain why very young children exhibit homosexual tendencies without ever having been exposed to abuse, other trauma or neglect.   It is no different from any other sin in God's eyes-no better, no worse.  The good news is that homosexuality CAN BE OVERCOME! I believe that the real thing that bothers most Bible believing Americans isn't so much homosexuality, but the pervasive atttude that 'Gay is OK' which stands in open, arrogant defiance to the Word of God, which the majority here hold true.  For those of us who do respect and revere God's Word whether Old or New Testament (Orthodox Islam and Judaism inluded), the beginning of healing from ANY sinful issue (which we ALL HAVE!) begins when we CONFESS our sins-we all have our crosses to bear-this implies struggle.  Some struggle with weight, others with perverted sexual attractions, others with drugs and alcohol.   The problem with homosexuals is that they have decided that what God says (that homosexuality is sin) is wrong. According to 'gay' people, there is no sin to confess!  Because it is a difficult thing to overcome, because it is painful to admit this particular thing in this country (let's be honest, many of us are not very friendly to homosexuals here in the US!), gay folks have employed the classic defense mechanism  that we all have done when we know deep down that we are wrong-they have become aggressive which they call 'activist', intolerant and defiant of those who disagree with their beliefs-especially people of faith.  But is it really fair to ask someone to be accepting of something that they believe is dangerous and wrong? Would you ask a truly Orthodox Jew to eat pork? Far be it!  In the same vein, it is utterly repugnant for most people to think of homosexuality as OK, regardless of what's happening with the "breeder" crowd.  Marriages may be going down the tubes faster than ever, shacking up may be at an all time high, but it doesn't make these or any other deviant behaviors, including homosexuality or polygamy (for that matter) more credible.  That doesn't mean, however, that we have to lead totally separate lives.  And it doesn't mean homosexuals are doomed to burn! There is healing and deliverance for homosexuals.  It will take honesty, time, discipline, accountability, and a true willingness to get help.  You may fall, everyone does at some time or other.  For those of you with 'gay' family members, if you really love them, tell them TRUTH.  Do not shun them, but set boundaries that honor God while also letting them know in no uncertain terms that you love them just as God does, imperfections and all.  Show them mercy just as God shows each of us every day.  Perversion is NOT LOVE.  God has been gracious enough to give us a detailed guide of how to live safe, happy and healthy lives rather than leaving us to guess what He wants and how to do things. Just look at the story of Cain and Abel--sacrifice animals, not fruit! Homosexuals have taken on the role of Abel, angry with their brothers because God accepts their heterosexuality but not the alternatives.   God loves everyone the same, and applies the same standard to everyone. He loves us all and shows us all the same mercy and grace as we trust Him to perfect us in this life. Can we choose to do it outside of His way? sure.  Is it wise? Absolutely not.