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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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October 19, 2005, 4:41 pm PDT

It is not because of a bad parent relationship

For that man to say that it is because the child was abused or had a bad relationship is stupid!!!! I know of many gay people who grew up in two parent happy homes............
 
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October 19, 2005, 4:41 pm PDT

I think Justin did too

Quote From: catholic74

Just wanted to say Father David did a great job defending the Christian perspective today on the show.  I often feel that shows of this nature do not portray the christian perspective very well.  I thought Father David did a good job of explaining his views with love and without criticism.

I think Justin did a great job in defending the Christian perspective as well.  he is an amazing man of God and I think he did a great job presenting a Christian view with love and without criticism.  

 
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October 19, 2005, 4:42 pm PDT

to the above response...

Quote From: megan72

yes, God is love, but he is also just, and he must punish sin.  if homosexuality is a sin, which the Bible clearly states, then God MUST punish it.  in the first paragraph you wrote, you said "My God is loving and welcoming, not feared and exclusionary. Too bad many of you don't have the same one--you're missing out!"  do you realize what you've just done? that's a clear example of idolatry!  when you say "my God" you're creating a God in your own mind, one who allows you to live the lifestyle you want to.  the God of the Bible is loving, and he will accept you as you are when you come to him, but you must REPENT of your sin, which means that you turn away from it and dont live in that lifestyle any longer.  Read Ecclesiastes 8:13, Revelation 14:7.  These verses and many others tell us  that we SHOULD fear God.  And in some ways, God is exclusionary; not everyone will enter his kingdom.  in fact, he says that the road which leads to hell is wide, and the road to heaven is narrow.  I hate to be judgemental, because that's not my place, but I do want to give you a point to ponder.  Salvation is not based on forgiveness alone.  God cant just forgive us of every sin and let us walk away to return to a life of sin.  In order to be saved, one must repent of his sins and TURN AWAY from them, rather than continue in them.  I could probably go on all day, but I wont.  I would, however, appreciate if you'd consider what I've said, and I'll check back later if you want to say anything else to me.
So what your saying is that you repent for your sins, and turn away from them, right?  Then what you are saying is that you only commit a sin once and then repent and never repeat the same sin again?  Then after a while, you should be without sin since you have repented and then turned away from them, right?  There are only so many sins that you can commit and then repent for and turn away from, thus, you wouldn't be a sinner anymore at all after repenting all the possible sins there are, would you?
 
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October 19, 2005, 4:43 pm PDT

Yea

Quote From: studmixer

Isn't it against God to speak for him??? Didn't know that humans could do that?  learn something new everyday 

God says we are his vessels - and he uses us to share the Word of God.  I wanted to respond the the Christian that responded..it was great.  Wow..great response.
 
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October 19, 2005, 4:45 pm PDT

Convietnty ignorent

Quote From: wespauley

When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination... End of debate. 

  

However, we quickly forget some other "laws" from the old testament...Perhaps Dr. Phil could offer us some advice on this subject. Some of you may notice I am being cynical here... 
 

  

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the authorities to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev.11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of abomination?

7. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev.19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)  

  

I have little tolerance for people using ancient laws to prove their point against gays (and anyone who disagrees with them) when this law was clearly written for the Jews and is only practiced by the most religious of them in modern times. All good christians know that the Jews are going to hell anyway because they don't believe in Jesus, who by the way, changed the "law" when he died on the cross for our (everybody's, not some) sins. Get it?  

Sorry to point out that once you pick and choose which laws of the bible to follow and those not to follow, you too are a sinner in the eyes of God and must ultimately answer to Him.  

  

As a gay male myself, my sins may be apparent to you, and you may choose to judge me accordinly, however, Laviticus also states that a man maynot touch a woman wile she is haveing her peroid. I hope you follow the Laws of God closely. 

  

Judge not least ye be judged. 

 
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October 19, 2005, 4:48 pm PDT

Find to god

You think being gay is a sin, the way you think is a sin, a big one... I´m praying for your enlightenments, it makes me so sad to see that people who name themselves christians, are so awfully detached from god. Much light and love, Sarah, (I´m not gay)
 
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October 19, 2005, 4:48 pm PDT

GOD DID NOT MAKE ADAM AND STEVE

Quote From: dbrrtt1

The Bible tells use try to become like Jesus Christ and Christ I know was not gay 

 

 Christ never married nor had sex either... and for all the Paulians, neither did He.  In fact, he recommended all who had the ability to resist the temptation of sex to never marry at all either, though acknowdging it was better to marry and have sex than to struggle at celebacy unmarried. 

  

So should we all strive to neever marry nor procreate? 

HOW CAN TWO MEN OR TWO WOMAN PRODUCE A CHILD?????? THAT"S WHY GOD CREATED ADAM AND EVE O.K? 

  

  

  

  

  

 
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October 19, 2005, 4:48 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: gcnjustin

I'm still here... and thanks for the question!

Unfortunately, it would be pretty close to impossible to really get into the Bible issues in any deep fashion on a message board like this one. There's just too much to discuss. However, I'll give you a short answer and tell you where you can learn more.

Monogamous gay couples weren't a part of the culture in which the Bible was written, so the Bible doesn't take a position on them at all. We see the Bible condemning gang rape, idolatrous orgies, and the like, but no gay couples are mentioned at all. (There are some who believe that a few gay couples are mentioned in Scripture, but it's far from universally accepted.)

However, there are other passages that provide strong ammunition for the pro-gay-marriage argument. One example is Romans 13:8-10, which makes it clear that sin is *always* evidenced by a lack of love. Adultery, theft, murder... all of these are unloving actions. But there is nothing about a committed same-sex relationship to make it less loving than if one of the partners were of the opposite sex. Therefore, if we say that gender alone is the defining characteristic, you'd have to find a very clever way to work your way out of the very plain statement in Romans 13.

That's one of many examples. On my organization's website (gaychristian.net) we have several Bible-related resources that deal with these issues. If you want a very in-depth discussion of the issue from both sides, check out our "great debate" page, which goes into way more detail than you probably ever wanted. :)

I hope this helps! Incidentally, we also have some resources for moms who are struggling to come to terms with the coming out of their kids, as well as a bunch of other things. Check it out if you're interested.

God bless!

--Justin
 Hi Justin:

Thank you for your answer.  Not sure if you're still here or not but thought I'd respond.

I just looked up that reference again and can't get around it.

I'm using the King James Version of 1611

"Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.  Who changed the truth of Godinto a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever.  Amen.   For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections;  for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature;  And likewise also the men, leaving their natural use of the women, burned in their lust one toward another, men with men working which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." 

I think this pretty much desribes homosexual behaviour as something that goes against nature.  It doesn't mention that if they were doing this in love, then it would not be a sin.   It seems to me that the act itself is called a 'vile affection' . 

As much as I would like to condone the gay lifestyle and be all-accepting, I am not in a position to say it's right when God sure seems to be saying it's not.  I hope you understand where I'm coming from.  You seem like you would. 


 
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October 19, 2005, 4:52 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: dbrrtt1

I just wanted to thank the Dr. Phil show for doing this show, my partner and I are avid fans and have waited for the day this topic would finally be addressed on your show.  Please don't let this be a one-time thing!

I hate to say it this way, but I can't help myself.... 


AMEN!!! 

 
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October 19, 2005, 4:53 pm PDT

I think your getting confussed....

Quote From: poodledo40

He dated my daughter for 2 years, and they have been married for 5 years and have 3 children. Why is it that he can go from hetrosexual to homosexual, but a homosexual can't  go to being a hetrosexual? Seems there is alway a double standard when it comes to homosexuals. Everyone is suppose to be so understanding when a gay man comes out. ( oh the pain he suffers bla, bla bla) What about the casualty these men leave in their wake? ie--3 children and a wife in our case. My soon to be ex-son-in-law ( the sooner the better) carried on an hidden affair for the past year with another man, but also agreed and conceived his third child with my daughter. He then proceded to try and drive her out of their home for the last 6 months of her pregnancy, so he could blame her for the failure of their marriage. Two weeks before she was due he walked out on her, because he thought a video tape of he and his lover was going to be made public. Maybe what we should be discussing is why do homosexuals feel intitled to our compasion and understanding? Why do they think their needs supercede everyone elses? This person just can't understand why his own family and my daughter's are so upset with him. He now feels that it is ok to take his children's home, and force their mother to go to work. They both had agreed that if was better for her to stay at home with their children prior to his great revalation. Three children 3 years old and younger certainly did not ask to have a gay father. Should they now loose the rest of the stability in their live because "Daddy" is now gay? 

  

I am very sorry to hear about the horrible things that have happened to your daughter and your grandchildren, I truly am.  And by the sounds of it, this man, weather gay or straight, doesn't have a very good moral fiber.  It isn't the fact that he is coming to truth with himself or not.  It is the fact of weather or not he is a decent human being at all, straight or gay.  If he were just having an affair with another woman and tried throwing your daughter out of the house and doing the same exact things he is, would that make it any less painful?  Would he be a better person because it was with a woman that he layed with rather then a man while being married?  His morals are what is in question in this case, not his sexuality.  Don't you????
 
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