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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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October 20, 2005, 12:27 am PDT

"I believe in the Bible"

 I hear people say this so much. They believe in the the instructions given in the Bible as a guide to day to day living. I wonder if they have set down and read the book.
In Deuteronomy 22:28-29, you are instructed that if a man rapes a virgin woman, that if he is commanded to give the father 50 pieces of silver and take her as his wife.(imagine giving your daughter over to her rapist for some money, so he can force her to be his wife?)
In Lev. 11:7-11, you are commanded that eating or touching of swine flesh is an abomination( Who wants to go tell the NFL they are all in danger of going to hell, or being stoned for throwing around a pigskin football?)
In Lev. 15-19-33 tells how unclean a woman is on her period, and what things you have to do to be around a woman on her period.  I would hate to see two turtles and two pigeons get killed every month I have one.
In Lev. 20:10 Adultery means both parties gets killed. That would really cut down on the population of the US and Canada.
The Bible teaches love and tolerance. It teaches forgiveness and hope. Even if you believe in the Bible as the exact word of God(the KJV, not sure how God wrote in English, or the Oxford English Scholars who translated it were perfect) please remember people who don't believe exactly like you believe still believe in God. Lets all respect each other.

 
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October 20, 2005, 12:39 am PDT

It also says love your fellow man. I am sad for you.

Quote From: frogsnagga

I can only respond saying if you have friends and family who are gay and you are okay with it and you condone it, then you are just as guilty, you are suppose to turn away from those who are. It says so in black and white, how simple to understand !

It also says love your fellow man. 

You must really have a lot of hate for your fellow man, since you turn away from all sinners. 

Examples: 

  1. Your wife (if your male or a friend if you are female) ask "Does this dress make me look fat?"   You reply "no, you look great".   This is a lie and lying is a sin.
  2. A friend ask a question and you don't want to tell them entire truth so you lie.  Another Sin.
  3. You over eat.  Another Sin, to over eat is to harm the temple of God which is your body.
  4. You tell your mate what they want to hear, that the present they bought you, the sex you had with them, that they did not hurt your feelings - Another lie, Another Sin.
  5. You do one thing but tell your children to do something else, smoke, curse, cheat, steal, gossip, shun someone, hate, criticize, etc.  Another lie - Another SIn.
  6. You don't tell the waiter, cashier, teller, etc. that the service was not what you expected/wanted.  Another lie - another Sin.
  7. You steal from a business, you take an extra peppermint from the free basket at a store, hotel, etc.  You say it was only one extra peppermint but the management placed them their on an honor basis for people to take ONLY one.   You Steal - Another Sin.
  8. You come back from lunch 10 minutes late but your boss isn't around so you report that you were on time.  You Steal - Another Sin.

I could name thousands, however I know that not a single thing I say is going to change your mind. 

 

Sin is Sin, it doesn't matter how big or how small, or does it? 

Do you believe God will punish a person for the sin of telling their wife or friend that they look great in an outfit when they really don't just as He would if they murdered, rape, tortured someone? 

If you believe this then I DO NOT want to know YOUR God.  

My God loves me with all of my faults and sins and He  knows that He made me gay and that I did NOT choose it. 

God Bless you, I believe you need all the blessings you can get since you don't have any friends or family.  I say this because in your own words you have turned away from every human on this Earth that you have ever met. 

You must be a sad and lonely person. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 12:45 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: katlover

Thanks so much for this message. I have read much of the posts about what people think of Gay people here tonight.  It scares me. It sickens me. I am surprised at the intolerance of many here. I am shocked at the opinions from heterosexuals about what it is like to be gay, or born or made gay, or can you change to heterosexual. How would you know? 

  

Why would I choose to be gay? To be denied the basic rights in this country (US). To be considered a second class citizen. To have someone else's religious beliefs thrown into my face; whether or not I am a sinner, whether or not I deserve respect and love. To be afraid to walk down the street holding my partner's hand because I love her. Afraid I may be attacked, beaten up or even killed because I CHOOSE to love someone. To have my partner be denied the right to grant my last wishes at my death because my family doesn't validate our love and relationship. To be denied the right to marry the person I love most in the entire world.  Who in their right mind would choose this? 

  

If any of you have questions about what it is like to be a lesbian/gay in this conservative and very judgemental society; please feel free to ask . I won't reply to questions regarding reconciling my homosexuality with religion as my spiritual beliefs are private and sacred. 

  

Sincerely, 

  

NA 

I think Katlover summed it up so well!  2 of my kids are gay. I've heard everything in the book...I did something wrong, they are sinners, it's sick behavior. As far as I'm concerned... my kids are 2 oif the healthiest people in the world. I'd never ask that they not be true to themselves. My son and his partner have an awesome relationship. As a mother, all I've ever wanted for my kids is for them to be happy, healthy and loved. My wishes have been granted. By the way, I AM a christian.
 
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October 20, 2005, 12:48 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: ronin2

There are some of you who say that, according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, and there are some of you who say that the Bible does not even discuss homosexuality. I am sixteen and the only bible I have ever owned is a childrens bible I have had since I was eight, so maybe I am just young and ignorant, but the whole time whole time you all are talking about this, there is one question that keeps coming up in my head; Why? Why would God consider it a sin to be homosexuality, what is wrong with it in his eyes. Does it hurt anyone? Does it violate the ten commandments in some way? I just don't understand it. God, as I know him, does not see it as a sin to be different. When I sit down and wonder what God thinks of me and what kind of a person I am, I know he does not look at my body, my genes, or the way my brain functions, he looks at my soul, so that's all I look at. That is one of God's purest, simplest, and most meaningful truths, that all are equal in his eyes. It just baffles me as to why someones sexual orientation makes them any more or less worthy in God's eyes.

You give me hope in our future! Keep thinking the way you do. Loving and accepting people is the only way this world will ever become whole and healed. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 12:49 am PDT

Wow what a wonderful Soul you are.

Quote From: ronin2

There are some of you who say that, according to the Bible, homosexuality is a sin, and there are some of you who say that the Bible does not even discuss homosexuality. I am sixteen and the only bible I have ever owned is a childrens bible I have had since I was eight, so maybe I am just young and ignorant, but the whole time whole time you all are talking about this, there is one question that keeps coming up in my head; Why? Why would God consider it a sin to be homosexuality, what is wrong with it in his eyes. Does it hurt anyone? Does it violate the ten commandments in some way? I just don't understand it. God, as I know him, does not see it as a sin to be different. When I sit down and wonder what God thinks of me and what kind of a person I am, I know he does not look at my body, my genes, or the way my brain functions, he looks at my soul, so that's all I look at. That is one of God's purest, simplest, and most meaningful truths, that all are equal in his eyes. It just baffles me as to why someones sexual orientation makes them any more or less worthy in God's eyes.

Wow what a wonderful Soul you are. At sixteen you have more insight into what God is and does than most people will ever manage to learn. It is truly wonderful to hear the openness, love, kindness, generosity, well being and so many more wonderful things from someone that represents our youth. The children of today are the leaders of tomorrow and I hope that you will use your knowledge and insight in the future to change this messed up world we live in. Just think that if everyone thought like you do their would be NO WAR, everyone would love each other for who they are and not what they do or believe. 

God Bless You, I know that God has a very special and wonderful gift and future for you. 

You will be one of the people that change this messed up world of ours and it is a pure pleasure to hear from you. 

Love and blessings to you, may your hopes and dreams come true and may you go as far in life as you choose. 

Do not let anyone stand in your way.  

Let God guide you and you will be fine. 

PS That children’s Bible you have is the ONLY BIBLE you will ever need, it has taught you what Gods plan is. 

Best wishes to you. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 12:55 am PDT

I'll answer the questions

Quote From: mommyjenna

 First off, if there is a discussion that will change the laws (like marriage) I have every right to voice my opinion. 

I am not the judge and I'm not judging anyone's soul, but who am I to say that something is right and okay when God says it is not?  Are you wiser than God?  Do you know better than He does?  Why do you condone something that he says is wrong?

Let me ask you, do you believe that it would be okay to allow a marriage between adult siblings?  Or do you think it would be okay if three people wanted to all get married?  Yes or no and most importantly, why?   (something tells me you won't stick around and answer these questions)

I am open minded.  I've made probably 40 posts on this website regarding the subject and have asked to see scriptures where God has condoned homosexual relationships.  People are telling me that these scriptures exist and I have been asking to see them, yet no one is posting them.

I guess open minded means that you just have to accept everything and ignore what God says on the subject.  Well, answer the questions above and let's see how open minded you are.


 
      I'll stick around and answer these questions (every one that you proposed in your post), although I am guessing you probably won't like many of my answers. :)

     If you believe that God thinks homosexuality is wrong (and clearly you do), and you believe as a Christian that its your job to completely follow the word of your Bible, then you are correct, it is not for you to say that Homosexuality is right when you believe God says it is wrong. You have adopted your path and lifestyle, and that is complete obedience to the Bible. If that is the life that makes you happy, then I wish you every luck in it and am glad you have found your place in life.
     No, I certainly don't believe that I am wiser than God. But I do believe that God gave humans Free Will, and the minds with which to think for ourselves. And with my Free Will, I have come to the conclusion that the Bible is not a reliable source that can be literally applied to modern life, nor is it free from the limitations of the humans that wrote and translated it. And so I must use my god-given Free Will to decide what is right and what is wrong, and I put faith in God that he has steered me in the right direction.
      No, I do not believe I know better than God. See my above answer for a more detailed explanation.
       I don't believe that God thinks homosexuality is wrong. I believe he predetermines one's sexual orientation, whatever that may be, and whether they choose to accept who they really are, or deny who they really are, is up to them. I believe God appreciates love in all of its true forms, and understands that homosexuality causes no one any harm.
       I do not believe that adult siblings should be allowed to marry. Inbreeding can cause serious genetic repercussions over the long term (and sometimes in the short term). Beyond the genetic aspect, incestuous love breaks down the necessary boundaries that exist within families, and eventually lead to the breakdown of the family. Love exists in many forms, and incestuous relationships blur those forms into an unrecognizable jumble, which poses a serious threat to society as a whole.
       Personally, I see no problem with three people all getting married. I think that the number of people that would willingly enter into these kind of relationships in our society is relatively slim, and provided that all three people understand what they are doing and enter into the relationship willingly, I don't really see a problem. It certainly would not be my choice, but I don't see any reason why they couldn't. I think that unrestricted polygamy as a whole is a dangerous concept, again because of the genetic repercussions of it in the long term, but I see no reason why three consenting adults should not be able to enter into a marriage with each other.

For the record, I don't believe a single person that has posted hates homosexuals. I think the problem arises from the basic fact that you see their homosexuality as a sinful act. They see it as a part of who they are, and when you say you hate the sin, they see it as you hating a part of them. I understand that you believe its out of love, but they may not see it the same way, because they may not have the same beliefs as you. Whether you recognize it or not, you are forcing your beliefs on another person and asking them to follow the same standards that you adhere to, because you see them as the truth. I think everyone here understands that you believe homosexuality is a sin, and thats your right to believe it, but it is also their right not to believe that, and to not feel the need to defend their lifestyle to you or anyone else.

I hope I haven't offended anyone, that certainly is not my intention.
 
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October 20, 2005, 1:09 am PDT

PLEASE!!!

Quote From: sare4him

  

 I understand where you are coming from, but it is by ALL MEANS our business when it means that a God ordained marriage between a man and woman is endangered in our society.  There are probably ignorant people out there that truely ARE ignorant....but I do believe that twice as many,if not more, are totally eduated on the subject before giving a direct stand on such a serious issue that will affect our country and how our children are being raised. 

  Aids is an issue we are to be concerned with...... this is an ever growing crisis and dilima in the gay community..... the chance of contracting STDS are high as well. 

  Being "closed minded" and"ignorant" means not taking the time to understand the homesexual lifestyle, it does not apply to those who are concerned and desire to learn more about the homesexual lifestyle. 

Educate yourself before speaking! The fastest growing group of newly diagnosed AIDS patients is young, heterosexual women. You can not blame this on gays.
 
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October 20, 2005, 1:14 am PDT

Bingo, you actually did your research.

Quote From: tulseyjoe

When I was a graduate theology/Bible student at Oral Roberts University, two of my PhD professors, one a Pentecostal Baptist (Southern Baptist Convention/Church - SBC) and another an Assemblies of God (AG) (both men were ordained ministers), were involved with the 1st Edition of the New International Version (NIV) Bible translation into English. 

  

They were given certain guidelines regarding the doctrines of the various Evangelical church denominations so that their churches' beliefs, no matter how wrong, would not conflict with the NIV translation when it was finished. 

  

Since the SBC and the AG, etc., had messed up believing that the abomination of same-gender sexual activity applied only to those who claimed to be exclusively homosexual, the translation committee followed their directives and put the word "homosexual" where those church demoninations' doctrine people said it should be. 

  

All of the Bible Societies in the World, especially the USA, are made up of people representing certain denominations. And when any Bible Society creates a new translation, they attempt to follow the guidelines of those denominations which are paying the salary of the translators and their staff. If they did not follow the man-made rules, they would not get paid. 

  

Jesus, aka The Christ, never said one negative word about homosexual or what might even be considered homosexuality or ever same-gender consensual sexual behavior by adults . . . or even mutually consensual same-gender sexual behavior by those under the age of 18.  

  

The sin of Sodom is never literally mentioned as same-gender sexual activity. Only one time in the Bible is the sexual activity of the people of Sodom mentioned and that is in verse 7 of the short Epistle of Jude. And even then, it is NOT same-gender sexual activity. 

  

Here is the King James version of that verse: 

  

"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

  

Here is the Today's New International Version of that same Verse: 

  

           "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." 

  

"Porneia" is translated as "fornication" in the KJV and as "sexual immorality" in the TNIV. "Porneia" literally refers to the "sexual activity of female prostitutes with male customers."  

  

The "strange flesh' in the KJV is interesting especially after one looks at the two words in the Original Greek Text of Jude. "Strange" is the translation of "heteras," which is another form of the word "hetero." The opposite of "homo" (same) is "hetero" (which does mean "opposite or different").  

  

Since Jude was the half-brother of Jesus, Jude's parents were Mary and Joseph, more than likely Jude's first language was Hebrew, or the Aramaic dialect of it. Jude, his brother James (literally Jacob), like Jesus, when growing up studied the original Scriptures in Hebrew and they apparenlty translated their Hebrew thoughts into everyday Greek, in the Koine dialect of it.  

  

The word translated in the KJV as "flesh" and in the TNIV as "perversion" is "sarx." Well, "sarx" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word, "basar" (flesh). Basar is used as a Hebrew euphemism (substitute polite word) for gender, sexual parts or genitals, male or female. 

  

So the "Strange Flesh" in proper interpretation here is "heterosexual sex." "Heteras sarx" would be translated as "heterosexual" in modern English.  

  

  

The whole so called "anti-homosexualness" of the Bible is really over trumped by many of today's Christians. I was raised Jewish, (and yes, Jesus was a Jew folks, he never renounced it. And the original Christians were Jewish) and I have been able to read the Torah and the Talmud in it's original language. I find it interesting how many people take certain laws from Leviticuts and Deuteronomy and twist certain things to bash homosexuals in order to feel better about themselves, but then ignore all of the other laws, such as the original Sabbath and the kosher laws. And claim that Jesus never deemed those practices as necessary anymore (even though Jesus was a Jew and practiced all of this.)  

  

I really don't think people choose to be gay. Many gay people, especially young ones, are targeted for abuse by their peers and family and have a higher likelyhood to commit suicide. I don't see why anyone would choose that on themselves. I am heterosexual and it's not like I woke up one day when I was 11 years old and went "hmmmm... I think I will find guys sexually attractive." Human sexuality just doesn't work that way folks. Also many of the sexual laws of the Bible were written when the populations of Hebrews were very low. (Hence those lovely passages about not spilling your seed on the ground.) Considering that there are too many humans on the planet, I don't think a lot of this is necessary anymore. Just like many Christians don't consider the Kosher laws necessary anymore since we have better sanitation practices.  

  

My parents are an interracial couple and many people would consider that to be sinful and can pick all sorts of verses in the Bible to justify those claims. My parents are hard workers who pay taxes and don't commit any crimes yet as far as many Christians are concerned we are on a one way ticket to hell since my dad is a Caucasian Ashkanasi Jew and my mother is Filipina. I just believe people do this in order to feel morally superior to others. If Jesus's main teaching was "love thy neighbor" then people would want to love and protect gay people, especially considering the abuse that they get from others. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 1:19 am PDT

Hmmm...

Quote From: batgirl

  DR. PHIL, 

     IT IS A SIN TO BE GAY. IT STATES IN THE BIBLE THAT IT MAKES THE LORD TO WANT TO THROW UP. THIS IS A CHOSEN LIFE STYLE. I BELIEVE ALOT OF PEOPLE WHO CHOOSE THIS STYLE ARE LOOKING FOR LOVE, OR HAVE BEEN HURT BY MEN.  

    JESUS LOVES THE PERSON HE JUST HATES THE SIN, HE CAN HELP AND CHANGE YOU IF YOU GIVE YOUR HEART TO HIM TOTALY. 

It makes God want to throw up? That's a nice way to anthromorphisize a supposedly all powerful all loving deity. And I am sure that it discourages young gay teens to not commit sucide when you tell htem that they feel a certain way that makes God want to throw up. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 1:33 am PDT

Puritanical views

Quote From: tanyab

I agree being healthy and happy is key, and there is just too much concern with what people do in private. I'm just so glad that here in Canada we allow and accept gay marrages. It doesn't matter what you do in the privacy of your 'bedroom'. 

More people need to understand gays have relationships, children and all the things hetro's do and they don't do it any differently.Homophobes just need to open thier minds educate themselves to things other than the only things they know. You don't have to like it but you should be able to except all for thier input to society. 

It's ultimately who you are in your actions with others and not what you do in your private spaces. 

A little humanity and tolerance people and a few less excuses and less hidding behind your beliefs. 

you hit this nail right on it's head. this hetro thanks you for your view and your tolerance of others. Thats what it has to be to keep everyone valid. 

are running rampant in our country. Thank you for a reminder that it is possible to have a country where folks feel they can live in peace without fear of prejudice and hate.
 
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