Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Well I am very happy you see yourself as a followr of Christ and not a follower of Paul and that you read the entire bible. SO DO I. So we have that in common. The only point I was trying to make was that  a TRUE Christian follows Christ as God's Word not the writings of Paul as God's Word.  

  

God only has ONE TRUE WORD and it is Jesus. To say that anything else is God's true word is idolatry.  

  

Furthermore, we do not obey Paul on MANY things he suggested in his letters. He believed slaves should obey their masters in ALL things inTitus 2:9-10 and Ephesians 6:5. Today we Christians know slavery is WRONG and those who are enslaved have EVERY RIGHT to rebel and seek freedom and compensation. Paul believed a man is the head of a woman and women should never seek authority over a man. 1Corinthians 14:34-35 and 1 Timothy 2:11-15. Today we know women can be just as competent leaders, teachers, judges as any man. Peter often disagreed with Paul’s approach and writings, calling them “Difficult to understand” and contain things which the “unlearned and unstable” preoccupy themselves with. See 2 Peter 3:16 

  

This is why it is so important not to fall victom to bible fundamentalism. Just keep focused  JESUS Christ never changes because only HE IS THE WORD.  

  

As for your NIV transaltion. It is not a prefered translation of serious bible scholars and is used mainly by certain sects who like the way it is worded but often it has serious mistranslations. The translation you use is very important because many contain errors. The bible was afterall, copied, translated, compiled and edited by men. Men make mistakes all the time or misunderstand things. So get a version that is as close to the original Hebrew and Greek as possible and also invest in a Hebrew and Greek concordance to get the correct meanings of words when you are not 100% sure.  

  

God bless! 

Umm, child molesters are heterosexual men, have you not watched Oprah and Dr. Phil shows on this topic.

We are not talking about behavior.  We are talking about orientation.  Two different matters.  Heterosexuality and homosexuality are orientations.  Behavior is an act of these persons.  You have no choice as to your orientation, but you can control behavior.  Behavior is a personal choice, you can do good things or bad things.  Bad things land you in jail.  Sexual behavior is no one's business.  What a person does in the privacy of his home belongs there unless it is illegal.  How can you as a heterosexual know anything about a gay person.  You don't my friend, no more than a gay man or woman understands your preferences.  So stop trying to be a judge, jury and expert on homosexual orientation.  10% of the population is more like it, not 3%.  You probably know more gays than you think.  In your family too!  Get your facts right and then you can talk.  My son is gay and my granddaughter is gay.  They are both the most moral individuals you can ask for.  My granddaughter does not dress like some of the young girls (that look like little prostitutes).  She is a virgin at 17.  My son has never fathered illegitimate children or raped or abused women (men).  Look at the heterosexual community - it is the hotbed of immorality and getting worse.  You...can you cast the first stone?  Look at your life, have you been the most moral person you can be.  If so, great, but you are in the minority. 

I have talked to many Gay Christians and they totally get where Paul was coming from in Romans 7:15 to 25. they identify with Paul’s self loathing, depressing and defeating quest for a standard they can never attain. You could sense Paul’s frustration in these verses. He also grew disheartened when after asking God so many times to remove the “thorn” in his side, God would not do it. This symbolic “thorn” has come to symbolise for gay people, their homosexual orientation. Do you know how many gay people grow disillusioned and frustrated just like Paul, after asking God in tears and total depth of despair to remove their homosexuality and having it not come true?

   

 

  

Now I know when you are Christian you are told just  “Ask and it will be given” and so we think that just because we ask God for something with all our heart, soul and might and really pour out ourselves that God will always say “Yes” to our every prayer. Not true. Remember what we ask for has to be in accordance with what God wills for us at that particular time. Sometimes God says, ‘No.” to our prayers. This is when the REAL test of faith comes in. When a child we pray for dies anyway. When an injustice we pray to be righted is never corrected. We ask ourselves “WHY? Why would God allow this to happen?”  Paul cried out to God to “remove his thorn” and God said, “No.” WHY? According to 2 Corinthians 12:9 “My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness.”

   

 

  

Imagine that? God actually says that his strength is revealed in OUR WEAKNESS. For a gay person who sees their sexual orientation as a weakness, an imperfect “thorn”, God still manifests his spirit and strength in you. Just as God did not remove the thorn to make Paul a better, stronger and more importantly a HUMBLE person, he does not remove the sexual orientation of many gay people who ask it of Him. Instead he wants you to trust in Christ’s GRACE and find his strength in what you perceive as your weakness. Most gay people find that once they accept God’s answer and just let go of the self hatred they can be better, stronger people. You will find most gay Christians, because of their struggle in the faith are far more  humble, more empathetic, compassionate and a lot less judgemental of other people. Paul’s “thorn” was an inner struggle, a personal flaw. It did not violate Jesus’ commandment.  It was not an anti-social vice or crime against others. It was a secret matter between him and God. So too is a person’s sexual orientation.

   

 

  

Gay Christians are in a unique position to test faith not only theirs but those around them. If God exists and wants everyone to be straight and gay people pray to God to make them straight and it doesn’t happen. Boom! Decision time!  If after deep soul searching and intense commune with their Creator, in addition to therapy and spiritual counselling to address their sexuality, a gay person finds he or she still cannot change what do you want them to do? After inflicting emotional and mental scars upon themselves through these efforts, the time will eventually come when they will simply arrive at an ultimatum. Either

   

 

  

(1)     They get stronger in their faith and learn to depend more on Christ instead of bible dogma and man’s religious fundamentalism and trust God has a plan for them or…

   

 

  

(2)     Reject Christianity and the bible entirely as garbage.

   

 

  

The bible fundamentalists turn hundreds and thousands of gay people away from Christ every day by placing their bible dogma ahead of God’s love. Like Jesus said, ““Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.” (Matthew 23:13) We should therefore admire gay people who choose to remain Christians and have even taken up leadership and positive roles in the church and community. They have been through hell and back, walked the wilderness, suffered isolation and ridicule and still stuck with their faith. How many of us can say we have ever been tested like that?  

 Watching David go on TV made me feel very bad for him and the fact that he can't accept his sexulity and will probably never be in a loving relationship. I also feel bad for any homosexuals who are dealing with the pain of coming out, and had to hear him tell them they can change.
 Being  gay, there are two things that set me off. First, when people assume male on male pedophiles are "gay". Second, when people say I chose to be gay.

For anyone who thinks that homosexuality is a  choice,  when did you make the conscious decision to me straight? Did you get up one morning when you were 5, know the real societal differences between being straight/gay, and make an informed choice what to be straight? Please tell me the time in your life you made the decision to be straight and the consequences you weighed to make the decision.

I never said at 7-10 year old "Hmm, the world has two different sexualities, gay and straight. and now I have to make a decision" and chose gay. I did things labled as "gay" since before I was even in pre-school. Also remember  that kids can't think in abstract terms like "gay" so the idea of a kid choosing is ridiculous. In fact, during the toddler to pre-pubescent stages of child development a child thinks in terms of "me, me, me". Their brains have not developed to the point where they can reason with abstract terms or understand homosexuality on a societal level. Since parents pick up all types of signs that children are gay  from when they are young, you can't tell me a kid whose brain hasn't developed made a concious decision to be gay.

WOO HOO 

  

thank you thank you 

  

VERY VERY VERY well said, thought, put, whatever.. this is good!!! 

  

Pat yourself on the back for this one!!! 

  

Thanks Tammy :) 

  

  

In no way does this say that God cares for someone more than others. But, God expects us to be obedient to Him as our Father. A parent wants their child to obey them because they love them. If they do not obey their parents, they are punished. Does this mean the parent does not love the child-NO!. If we love them, we will punish them. If you commit a crime, you must be punished. We have to answer for our actions eventually.

If you are gay, that's fine I don't hate you and I'm not scared of you.  However why would anyone gay or striaght want to put their sex life "out there" for the public  to see and hear about.  I am a straight married woman and I don't discuss my private life with anyone, and I don't want to discuss anyone else's private life either

Oh please Don!!!!! That is not food for thought. It is rubbish.  

  

I will give you a little insight on what lesbians do on the weekends and I am speaking of myself and the woman I love dearly. 

  

 A few weekends ago we decided to get away for a few days and headed up to Pigeon Forge in the Great Smoky Mountains. Both of us like to travel and we both love to enjoy the view along the way. First stop after getting up mountains was a small roadside shop where they sell apples, jellies, baskets, etc. We bought the best apples and peaches in the world and munched on them till we got to Pigoen Forge and we enjoyed the view of the mountains at every turn in the road. 

  

We checked into our hotel and unpacked. It was dinner time so we explored the city and found a nice place to eat. The Old Mill and ordered a country style meal that was huge. We took most of it home in to go boxes. Then we traveled around the city at night; mostly taking the back roads to see the stars. Boring I know. 

  

Then we drove back to the hotel to change into our swimming suits so we could sit in the outdoor hot tub with our diet cokes, relax from a six hour drive and look at the stars again. Gay people are obsessed with stars. ;) Did I mention that we are both in our 50's and have the normal aches and pains of this age?  

  

We fell into bed exhausted and fell asleep in each others arms. The next morning we got up bright and early and headed to the Great Smoky Mtns National Park where we explored it as much as possible. We saw a water fall that had a trail which was paved. We decided we were going to take a shot at it even though I use a cane from nerve damage in both legs. We almost made it to the top while looking over our shoulders for the Black Bears who call this place home. Then a thunder storm popped up with lighting. Gay people are scared to death of lightening. ;) We huddled into a little cave soaking wet, chilled to wait out the storm so we could head back to the car. We talked about our kids and grandchildren; planning a visit to each of them in the near future. 

  

Then we headed back into our car and explored some more; stopped by a store and looked at the gemstone displays. We both enjoy rockhounding. Yeah gay people are obsessed with rocks too. ;) 

  

We drove back to the hotel to clean up so we could head out to dinner again. We went to Kentucky Fried Chicken. Yeah Gay people adore KFC! ;) After dinner we hit the pool and the hot tub again. Then we hit the sack again cuddled close. Wierd I know. :) 

  

The following morning we got up early and headed back for home taking a different route. We ended up on top of the highest peak Clingman's Dome in the Smokies. I could not manage to hike that steep trail and sent my g/f on ahead because she loves it so. I sat near the car taking photographs of the view. We got a bit lost on the way home because we took a wrong turn. Gay people can't find their way out of a wet paper bag. Didn't you know that? ;) 

  

We got home, checked the mail, checked messages, fed the cats and our dog. Unpacked, put dirty clothing into the washing machine. Had a light supper. Cleaned up the kitchen. Got into bed and talked about how  much fun it was to get up there this past weekend. We also planned on going back up there in a few weeks for a camping trip. If we can find one with good security because there have been several lesbians murdered in their sleeping bags in the past few years. And we didn't want to become another statistic. yeah gay people are freaky about that; we dont want to be murdered having fun with our partners and be slayed in our beds.  

  

It's a really boring life being gay. We own homes, we work in all sorts of jobs, we have kids and grandkids, we go grocery shopping (contrary to what you may think we don't have are own special stores for gays), we pay taxes, we get the flu, we vote, we eat out, we clean our homes and cut the grass, etc. All boring and very unexciting things gay people do on a day to day basis. 

 I'm sorry, but i have to agree with the person whose message you quoted. Yes Jesus died so that our sins can be forgiven, and yes he loves all of us, we imperfect sinners. But God expects us to recognize right from wrong and things that we can control, such as our actions, he expects us to control. So yes, I may have the feelings to have intimate relations with men to whom I am not married and God understands that is how I feel, but he also knows that if I rely on him,  I  can resist the urge, or temptation to give in to the wrong feelings. Same applies for homosexuals. That is why Juses when he taught his disciples to pray included the line "and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the wicked one." The Bible also states that God will not let us be tempted beyond wht we can bear in his strength. So yes, if any of us insist on acting on feelings that are wrong, we will be punished...not for having the feelings but for acting on them.