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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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October 20, 2005, 8:49 am PDT

Only one God

Quote From: mbarjum

We as christians have the Holy Spirit and it is the Holy Spirit that guides us.  If we are trully searching to do His will and not ours, the Holy Spirit will teach us and give us peace in each step we make.  We should concentrate in doing more His will.  If we are wrong, the Holy Spirit insists and guides us.  We should trust more in God, and let the Holy Spirit guides us.  Who are we to say we are without sin?  Or who are we to classify  which sin is greater or smaller.  To God it's all right or wrong.  We should have a humble and loving heart and search in doing His will and let Him work in our lives in an individual way. 
There is only one God, not two or three.  You can't put him in a box and think you  have it all figured out.  Every "religion" has its Bible (book) and its savior.  Frail humans have to have something to lean on.  I don't follow any man's religion or believe their books that men wrote and say God "told them".  Look around you at the beauty of nature and the miracle of life, human and other.  God created this.  Man messed up when he started trying to figure out God and making laws for others to follow.  I am not religious anymore, my freedom started when I finally let go of the baggage of religion, and I am a much happier, less judgmental person than I was before.
 
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October 20, 2005, 8:53 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: openmind1

In 1998, at its December 11-12 meeting, the American Psychological Association Board of Trustees unanimously endorsed a position statement opposing reparative therapy. According to the 1998 position statement:  

 

"The potential risks of 'reparative therapy' are great, including depression, anxiety and self-destructive behavior, since therapist alignment with societal prejudices against homosexuality may reinforce self-hatred already experienced by the patient. Many patients who have undergone 'reparative therapy' relate that they were inaccurately told that homosexuals are lonely, unhappy individuals who never achieve acceptance or satisfaction.The possibility that the person might achieve happiness and satisfying interpersonal relationships as a gay man or lesbian is not presented, nor are alternative approaches to dealing with the effects of societal stigmatization discussed. Therefore, the American Psychiatric Association opposes any psychiatric treatment, such as 'reparative' or 'conversion' therapy which is based upon the assumption that homosexuality per se is a mental disorder or based upon a prior assumption that the patient should change his/her homosexual orientation." 

 

One of the emotional problems triggered by "conversion therapy" that concerns many psychologists is called "regressed pedophilia". Now healthy adults have a sexual orientation which is either heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual. In the case of well adjusted people, they feel comfortable with their orientation and persue consensual adult sexual relationships. But when you rob someone of their sexual orientation or tamper with it you can cause some SERIOUS problems. Many interventions aimed at changing sexual orientation often expose their victims to electric shocks or nausea-producing drugs while showing them pictures of same-sex nudes, traumatizing exorcisms and intense emotional pressure. These have succeeded only in reducing or eliminating homosexual behavior rather than in creating or increasing heterosexual attractions. They do not change the person's orientation they just emotionally programme the person not to act on it. They have, in effect, taken a homosexual who could have had a healthy adult sexual life and deprived that person of ANY way of expressing an adult sexual response to another adult. The person is tto traumantized or indocrinated from having sexual relationships with another person of the same sex but yet at the same time they simply cannot have it with someone of the opposite sex either because they are not oriented that way. They have NO SEXUAL OUTLET AT ALL.  

 

This is what you would call a ticking time bomb and what many psychologists fear may contribute to "Regressed pedophilia" which is a form of sexual dysfunction. 

 

Regressed pedophilia happens when a person who already has an adult sexual orientation returns to an earlier, less mature psychological state and engage in sexual contact with children. Many things can trigger it-, serious mental or emotional trauma from childhood abuse or repression and guilt leading to obsessive hatred of one's own adult sexuality leading to disgust with sexual activity with other adults. There is a danger that by  being forced to repress their adult sexuality and suffering intense guilt about it can lead to seeing adult sex as  intimidating and "dirty". The need to feel control and dominant can lead to the person targeting children instead. The gender of the child is often unimportant to the pedophile. They are just looking for release from built up repression and inner tormoil and they want a weak victim ot take it out on.  

 

Just for the record, I am not saying this is true of ALL ex-gays. So don't start with the finger pointing. I am just saying that tampering with people's adult sexuality is DANGEROUS and it is a growing concern among the psychiatric community. And we have all witnessed the rampant incidents of pedohilia in our country ESPECIALLY in very strict religious communities where there are often repressive attitudes towards adult sexuality.  

 

 

 What is the American Psycholigcal Association Board of Trustees basing this statement upon?  It doesn't mention that they've even studied any ex-gays.

What about people who turn from straight to gay?  Convinced to come out of the closet and act on their impulses? 

What about bisexuals? 

What about people who go from straight to gay to straight again?

To say that gay people turned straight may resort to pedophelia is just outrageous.  

And again, where are the studies?  This is just pure speculation.  
 
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October 20, 2005, 9:02 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: rachtal

I am a lesbian. I do not feel that I am treated wrongly most of the time. I am content with who I am and everybody I know Has no issue with my sexual orientation.  That aside, I have a serious problem with the choice word always coming up when discussing homosexuality.

  

 

  

First of all who would choose to go through the judgment associated with homosexuality? Secondly, if it is a choice, when did the streight choose? Could a straight person under any circumstance be happy having sex with someone of the same sex? I have not ever heard a debate anywhere public where the question is turned. 

 

 When did you make your choice to be straight?  

 

I have no more choice in my attractions than you or any straight or Gay Human. It simply is not a choice.

  

 

  

 

  

 

  

I could have sex with men if I did not need to be sexually, mentally, and physically attracted to the person I am having sex with.  Does that make me straight? No, it makes me human.

  

 

  

  

  

  

  

 Well, who would go through the judgement of being a pedophile?  Or a serial killer?  Or a drug user? They go through the judgment because they  pleasure they receive from their actions outweighs the judgement they'll receive. 

I didn't make a choice to be straight.  It was natural for me to be straight.  I was never exposed to homosexuality and the thoughts never really entered my mind much.  Incidentally, in a sense, my orientation did change to a degree.  I was taught that 'tall, dark and handsome' was the way to go.  So I married him.  When he turned out to be physically abusive, my orientation changed.  I wanted a man who was was much shorter - much closer to myself.  I even decided that I didn't like the dark hair.  I liked blonde men. 

I did not have sexual feeling at a young age.  I like most, had sexual feelings upon puberty. 

I personally think it's dangerous when people say they knew they were gay at ages 5 or 6.  How does a 5 or 6 year old develop sexual feelings towards anyone?   I think you're treading on dangerous ground and giving creedence to perverts when you make such claims - not that you personally have, but others make claims like this. 
 
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October 20, 2005, 9:06 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: mlovacheff

I saw the show yesterday and I do not belive that Dave represented the word of God correctly. 

  

Good gave everyone a choice.  He will have mercy on who he chooses to have mercy.  It is not for me or anyone else to judge ones end.   

  

When Jesus came he challenged the hearts of the people that claimed to love God.  He challenged them to love God more than their families, spouse, things, and even their own lives.  Luke 9 23-29 and 14:25 to the end clearly call all of us to lay our desires aside for the sake of what God desires.  If a person has natural gay tendencies then their cross to take up daily is a denial of these tendencies.   

  

We may not be able to perfectly adhere to this and that is where grace comes into play.  As long as our hearts are willing to fight o maintain that denial of self then we can rely on God's grace to bring us on through to heaven and to forgive as we go.   

  

If we decide that these tendencies are too great or that our desires are too real to deny , and we decide to do as we desire, then we need to pray for God's grace all the more and hope in his mercy because we are not denying ourselves and taking up our cross dailly to follow Christ. 

  

I am naturally not a monogamous person.  I am also not prone to sobriety of any kind.  My natural tendencies are toward self destruction.  I deny those tendencies for the sake of Christ.  It is not easy and consistently a challenge to maintain, but I love God enough to deny myself as he asks. 

 Well said.  We as Christians, do have to do our best to deny the sin that really does come naturally. 

We are all tempted by different types of sin but we are supposed to be working on getting away from our natural desires. 
 
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October 20, 2005, 9:07 am PDT

Please get the chip off your shoulder

Quote From: judefunk

  

it would be nice if people like you thought a bit but then you are the heterosexual privelaged free person so you dont need to think. its all laid out for you. if i was not in a hurry i would lay it all out for you like how churches and other groups attack gays all the time. individuals attack gays. they are obsessed with the subject of homosexuality. it is a taboo.if it werent a taboo people wouldnt talk about it. it needs to be so out there that it becomes accepted.we(gays)have everything straight life shoved in our faces all the time and everywhere. you dont see it because you are so used to having that privelage of being hetero. it makes me mad how ignorant so many people are. but then again i am happy that you voiced your opinion.also, gay people are no more and i think less likely to be pedophile.its a predominantly hetero thing. 

Homosexuality doesn't bother me, or anyone else with any intelligence.  I'm sorry that you feel discriminated against because of your sexual orientation but there is hatred everywhere not just for gays.  However,  I stand by my comment that I don't think what goes on behind closed doors is no ones business but there own.  I don't think you and your partner should be forced to live in a cave and I don't think God hates you.   But why would you want to bring your sexual orientation up in casual conversation.  Yes I am straight and it would be nice if I was truly priveleged but unfortunately I am not. 
 
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October 20, 2005, 9:13 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: mr_lion

Lifestyle is behavior.  Sexuality is one's desire - IE: who one falls in love with - that is NOT a choice.  Falling in love is quite involuntary.   

  

One question:  Did your friend lead a promiscuous homosexual lifestyle?  Every person that I've ever heard about who supposedly "changed" their sexuality had led a very promiscuous, decadent lifestyle and basically became sick of the "behavior."  I have never heard of anyone who was homosexually monogamous or celibate who changed desire.   

  

As a Psychologist specializing in the study of human sexuality for the past 40 years, I can tell you that human sexuality is extremely complex - one doesn't simply change desire.  For reasons too numerous to mention, some mentioned elsewhere on this board, I believe there are many, many people living heterosexual lifestyles, while repressing their natural homosexuality, with dire consequences down the line.  It would appear that your friend has joined them.  

  

And as for sin -- Consider that all humans are potentially bi-sexual from birth.  It is only through the pervasive, forced  "heterosexism" in our society that anyone becomes "exclusively" heterosexual in lifestyle, but not necessarily in desire.   

 Nice to hear from an expert in the field. 

Have you studied any ex gays have you studied and what programs have they gone through?

I do believe your last paragraph, that all humans are potentially bi sexual at birth.  Regarding the 'forced heterosexism' that you mention.  Isn't is possible that most children go through this 'heterosexism' (although not forced) that you mention through our entire childhood, leaving little thoughts to homosexuality and because we are children when we go through it, most adults are therefore heterosexual with no real sexual issues and remain happily heterosexual? 

Someone here mentioned a study regarding phermones where pubescent boys were studied.  I'd like to look at it.  Do you know any more about this so I can look this up?


 
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October 20, 2005, 9:16 am PDT

Say what indeed!

Quote From: torontodt

Umm, child molesters are heterosexual men, have you not watched Oprah and Dr. Phil shows on this topic.
If he is ex-gay, and he is now a heterocexual child-molesters, then it is a choice.
 
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October 20, 2005, 9:18 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: wrgriffing

There is only one God, not two or three.  You can't put him in a box and think you  have it all figured out.  Every "religion" has its Bible (book) and its savior.  Frail humans have to have something to lean on.  I don't follow any man's religion or believe their books that men wrote and say God "told them".  Look around you at the beauty of nature and the miracle of life, human and other.  God created this.  Man messed up when he started trying to figure out God and making laws for others to follow.  I am not religious anymore, my freedom started when I finally let go of the baggage of religion, and I am a much happier, less judgmental person than I was before.
 So you believe truth is relative?

In the case of OJ Simpson, some believe that he murdered his wife, some believe that drug dealers killed her, some beleive that he was set up by white supremists, some believe that it was a random kiling.

If truth is relative, then all of these beliefs are right.

I don't believe truth is relative.  And I think that's why it's called truth.

There is a truth as to how the earth was made, how we got here, how we are supposed to conduct ourselves, and what happens to us after this life is over. 

Now, we have to figure out which belief system is the truth.


 
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October 20, 2005, 9:18 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: mommyjenna

 I am not hiding behind religion.  I am posting scriptures and examining them.  How is that hiding?  If anyone is hiding, it's those who do not respond to the scriptures that are being posted.   Most are saying they are Christians, so I don't understand.

Actually, the first books of the Bible are the oldest written accounts known to man (though there is some debate that the Sumerian writings came first)   In any case, the writings go even beyond the Egyptian and Babylonian eras as well.

The accounts of Jesus were not originally written down centuries after his death.  They were all written within that same generation.  Matthew example, was written by the apostle Matthew - same guy who followed Jesus around during his ministry.  There are non Biblical sources as well to confirm the existance of Christ.

I don't follow the Koran. 

We shouldn't be interpretting the scriptures according the the times we live in.  God is the same, yesterday today and forever. 

If you want to talk science, please go to Should we teach creationism in schools under News and Current events and we can discuss it in depth. 

I'm not Catholic and don't follow the vatican views.  My only source of truth is the Bible.


The hiding behind religion is that when you give you're opinion on gay-related issues you say "The bible says" you don't say I think and if you do you say right after that "but the bible says" so you take away the power of your words so you don't have to say what you think instead of what the bible thinks that is why it's hiding behind religion. 

  

Yes maby the sories went beyond the babylonian and egyptian era even more reason to doubt how true they are because the first writing isn't much older then those eras. 

  

About the stories of jesus is just not how I heard it I'm sorry 

  

I didn't say you where following the koran I gave it as an example on how the same thing came be interpreted in sow many ways so can you inteprete the bible in different ways why else would there be so many different churches? 

  

But man wrote down the scriptures is it not possible that god might have made it understandable for man in that period and that we can interprete it for this period? Because if god is a greater being he should've cut down to our level of understanding and that ment that in that era man might not have been ready for a gay community. 

  

And that bible was kept by the vatican for many centuries 

 
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October 20, 2005, 9:21 am PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

I personallly don't care who is gay or straight.  Your sexual orientaion should make up so little of your personality that it shouldn't even matter.  There are other things that are alot more important in a person.  I feel like Anjela wants everyone to be accepting of her and her choices, but she doesn't want to do the same for others who don't share her viewpoint or lifestyle choices.  She calls her sister a "breeder" just because she chose a more traditional lifestyle.  As a married woman, I took offense to her comment that anyone who wears a wedding ring is flaunting their sexuality.  I wear my weddings, not because I want everyone to know I'm hetero or even married.  I don't care about what everyone knows or everyone thinks.  I wear it, for myself and my husband, as a symbol of our love and commitment.  Besides, alot of gay couples wear commitment rings now.  What's the difference?  That might give a false impression of heterosexulaity if you only saw one of them wearing a ring.  You probably wouldn't assume the person to be in a same sex couple.  I think Anjela is kind of hypocritical and maybe should take a look at herself before she starts judging other people.
 
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