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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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October 20, 2005, 4:18 pm PDT

Think again..

Quote From: sboyd55

 

My niece has a strong sexual attraction for other women.  This is after 3 marriages (to men) and four children; she now lives with a woman. She says she did not choose to be this way, but she does love to advertise her sexuality, (an ‘in your face’ attitude) something she did not do when she was straight.

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

My neighbor has a strong sexual attraction for little boys.  He was married and has two children; he now lives in prison. I am sure he did not choose to be this way. Unfortunately, he did not advertise it.  

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

My nephew would rather have drugs and alcohol then a relationship of any kind with anyone.  He now lives in a stupor, in and out of jail, and on the streets. It is a very strong attraction. He (I guess jokingly) says, “God made me this way”, in an effort to deny responsible for his own actions.

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

All three of these people have intense attractions; they say they cannot resist acting on them. How can we approve of one and put the other two in jail? Another neighbor in another state beat his wife on a regular basis. He always said he was sorry and that ‘he couldn’t help it’. 

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

We all have things that tempt us, but if everyone gave in to every temptation, acted on every impulse and just did what ever we felt, ….well I would not want to live here.

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

How can any thinking person say it is OK to be a homosexual and act on it, but being a pedophile and acting on it, is not OK? Look it up in the dictionary, both are sexual ordinations: A predisposition in favor of something. I realize a three-year-old child cannot give consent, but if the person was born with that sexual predisposition in favor of small children, should we condemn him for acting on it?

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

The Word says, to take up your cross daily and follow Me.  We all have our crosses to bear, and no one can say theirs is more difficult then other peoples; therefore, we should excuse them for giving in.

  

 

  

  

 

  

 

  

  

Someone please tell me, if being born with some predilections makes it OK to act on them, then why not all of them?

  

 

  

  

How can a  " thinking person "  even compare these things?!
 
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October 20, 2005, 4:19 pm PDT

I'm okay in the eyes of God

Let's not forget that the Bible was used to deny women the right to vote, to support slavery and look what "good and decent Christians" did to our Native Americans in the name of Christianity. 

  

Homosexuality, I believe, is a test made by God for all those "christians" on THE primary commandment and fundamental basis of ALL religions...to love one another as thyself.  To say, I love everyone BUT....negates everything you just said.  There is a pyamaid of hate and the bottom levels starts with the unacceptable and name calling and escalates to the violence and murder of innocent people.  Seriously think about what you are saying when you say... I love everyone but don't talk about it.  It's okay if I'm straight, and talk about my dating life, or children or husband but you can't say a word about your life.  Would you want to go to work and live your life in silence?  I think not. 

  

I'm okay in the eyes of God, loved and accepted for who I am...a lesbian, newly "married" to a wonderful woman, active in MY church and my community.   

 

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October 20, 2005, 4:30 pm PDT

To Set You Straight

Quote From: oet_gaol

Well no it is said that children are not born gay because 4/5/6y is to early to have a sexual nature, that also is true that you are not born straight because they don't have a sexual nature, the same is true for bisexual. The childs brain is not ready to cope with that yet, the earliest talking about sex begins at age 10 but in a gigly kind of way the first boy girl relationships start to form at age 12 but more in a gigly kind of way, the real sexual preference only starts in mid puberty most gays feel at age 16/17 that they do not want to seek a partner from the opposite sex. so at that point the true for life sexual preference is developt. So the age that they are ready to have sex the sexual preference matures and not sooner (study of durex in 2004 reveals that 16.9 is the time most people loose verginity) 

  

Well as far as I understand from gays who treid out the opposite sex it pretty much works in the same way, you just fall in love. And maybe you cannot see yourself with one of the same sex but that is something completly different, I cannot see myself making love to a man but I do not see a difference in the just falling in love part instead of choosing to fall in love. 

My theory is - All humans are born potentially bi-sexual and yes, sexuality starts at birth.  The new born is sexual.  It is just not manifested in children the same way as during puberty, when the physical characteristics start to set in.   

  

Do NOT confuse sexuality with behavior.  I said children are sexual and do have sexual feelings.  I did not say that they necessarily act out in terms of what we would call "sexual acts."  Children may act out a sexual feeling in ways that we would not necessarily consider sexual.   

  

For instance, I know now that I felt sexual attraction in connection with males before I was 4 Yrs old. 

  

This is a true story:  I remember once when my 11 yr old male Cousin came to my house for a visit.  I owned a toddler's ride-about stuffed horse.  My prized possession!  My cousin took my horse away  from me and sat down on it very hard, bending the legs.  He was clearly too heavy for it and it was starting to break.  I remember being incredibly frustrated and crying at him to get off my horse  before he ruined it completely.  He remained on it bouncing and laughing.  While all this was happening, I can recall experiencing a sexual feeling, a kind of pleasure/frustration all at once, perhaps from seeing him straddling my horse.  There was absolutely no physical contact between us.  I believe an adult then came in and ordered him off the horse.  In any case, the legs were almost crushed..  Now to my 3 1/2 Yr old mind, all horses were male animals then.  I recall that after the visitors had left and I was alone in my room with the stuffed horse, I pulled my pants down and proceeded to piddle all over it, soaking and ruining the soft fabric.  I was probably punished, after all I was already potty trained, my parents having no idea why I did such a thing.  My thoroughly ruined horse was thrown out.   I definitely know now that my childish urination act was clearly, an act of masturbation.   It came about as a result of the powerlessness and frustration I felt about my prized toy, and the fact that it was ruined by another male.  The fact that the horse (in my mind) was male, probably had some significance too. 

  

I present that true scenario just as one example of how a toddler might act out his/her sexuality   And believe me, that act was definitely sexual.  I still remember it. 

  

As a Psychologist, I have been studying human sexuality for over 40 years.  I would suggest you read some of the works of Sigmund Freud regarding sexuality. 

  

BTW, nobody can choose to "fall in love."  Falling in love is quite involuntary and is a sexual manifestation.  One might fall in love with someone of the same sex.  Although falling in love is not love, it certainly is a prerequisite for starting a sexual relationship, that hopefully will lead to true love.  Otherwise, one might as well just have a platonic relationship with someone that is loved.  I'd suggest reading M. Scott Peck MD - "The Road Less Traveled"  for further explanations regarding what is love and what it is not love. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 4:35 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

 

 I was surprised by the "I'm Gay" show and Dr. Phil's handling of the topic.  I've been watching the show for a long time and as a lesbian have noted the total absence of any gay couples on the show.  It made me the realize Dr. Phil just isn't that comfortable dealing with the issue of homosexuality.  That has not prevented my partner and I from putting to good use many of the ideas and couples solutions Dr. Phil offers!  Good advice, no matter what equipment resides in the pants.

It was fairly obvious to me that Dr. Phil purposely didn't state his own opinions of being gay, yet focused on ensuring people were being their authentic selves -- whatever that was, gay or straight.  I felt that it was the mark of a good therapist to be able to focus in on the other person without allowing any of his own discomforts to interfere.  Good job, Doc!
 


The one criticism I would have is that the lesbian on the show was trying to express how deeply the issues go and no one seemed to get that.  Being a lesbian affects every part of my life, just as being straight affects every part of a heterosexual's life.  It's part of my identity, which I carry with me in everything I do.  I don't express my homosexuality to "flaunt" it, but I do express that part of who I am freely.  People ask, "Are you married?  Do you have children?" without a second thought ... and the assumption is always that I'm straight.  I feel I have the right to derail those assumptions.

I had to disagree with his assessment of the 4 year old who expressed clear gender confusion issues.  I think people just know what gender they are meant to be from the time they first become self aware in any manner.  If I had a child in that position I would find it extremely difficult because the path is a rocky one, but I think it's critical to honour that child's authentic self.  Kids are a whole lot smarter than us grown ups give them credit for!  He probably is clearer on the issue than either Dr. Phil or the parents.  It is a tough one, though.

As for being homosexual and christian ... it's a not an easy pairing.  One quote I found rather humorous in a slightly cynical way is, "The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to heterosexuals. That doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision."

Being homosexual does not prevent one from worshipping, but it does make it difficult to worship within the confines of certain religions.  My opinion is to keep it simple ... go where you are loved and accepted rather than trying to change the church.  There are plenty of organized religions that welcome homosexuals.  I find any religion that adheres to exclusionary practices suspect.  Christians like to speak a often of love and tolerance, but it seems many of them are unable to put it into practice.  Like any support group, I think we need to find the church that gives us the love, hope and support we need to be the best people we can be.
 
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October 20, 2005, 4:36 pm PDT

Porneia

I've had extensive discussions with a pro-gay activist in times past and she quoted all the so-called biblical "scholarship" wherein people have attempted to explain away anti-homosexuality (notice I did NOT say anti-homosexual) passages from the Bible as translational errors from the original Greek and Hebrew. Even if all that were true (and I do NOT believe that it is), there is one Greek word that all of these gay activists refuse to deal with and that is porneia which is where we get the modern word "pornography."

The word porneia is translated throughout the New Testament into the English word "fornication" and is included in the list of the "works of the flesh" found in Galatians 5:19-21. This list describes the behaviors of those who are operating in their own fleshly desires, rather than in the Spirit of God (Whose list of fruit appears in the verse following immediately thereafter). After the list of the Spirit's fruit, it says, "And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." Just a few verses later, it says in Galatians 6:6-7, "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life."

Porneia is defined in the lexicons as "illicit sexual intercourse, specifically listing what types: adultery (extramarital sex with a married person), fornication (extramarital sex with a non-married person), homosexuality, lesbianism, bestiality (sex with animals), and incest (sex with close relatives).

Also in the list of the works of the flesh is the word aselgeia which translates into the English word "lewdness." The literal meaning of aselgeia is "unbridled lust, excess, promiscuity, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence." These are all behaviors that are extremely common to the homosexual community (especially its activists) and such behaviors were indeed publically confessed by the gay woman with the red hair on the show. Even if the word porneia was not in the list (and it is indeed listed) and all other s Scripture concurred (and it doesn't), the fact is that the vast majority of homosexuals consistently operate outside the bounds of a monogamous commited relationship which would indicate that they are functioning in their fleshly desires rather than the Spirit of God.

Does the Bible say that God hates homosexuals? No way! He loves ALL humans equally, yet hates ALL sin commited by them. He is the ultimate Redeemer, Who can deliver any human from any bondage. Homosexuality is simply another sin of the flesh, though the accompanying addiction to it is one of the hardest addictions to deal with.

Does the Bible say homosexuals are all going to Hell because they're gay? No, it says people who go to Hell choose to go there because they have refused to surrender their lives to the lordship of Jesus Christ. Sin was dealt with on the cross and is no longer the issue.

Should homosexuals be excluded from our churches? No way! How else will they receive the spiritual help they need if they have no access to the Body of Christ for support and assistance? Jesus hung out with the underclass of his day, the rejects of society. I cannot help but believe that there was a homosexual or two in that crowd. People who are sick go to hospitals and those who are spiritually sick (all of mankind) need a spiritual hospital. However, gays should be excluded from positions of authority within churches just like any other person who does not qualify for leadership in the Church due to sexual misconduct.

Can you be a Christian and also be a homosexual? Sure, just like anyone else who has a sexual lust problem in the Church. Will those people be joyful and fulfilled and blessed spiritually and materially by God? Not hardly! One of the requirements for qualifying for all those blessings is repentence, which means that we stop doing things our way and start doing things His way. And that includes turning away from ALL sexual sin--homosexuality included--and relying upon God's grace to make that repentence stick.

People should read what the Bible actually says, rather than repeating erroneous Scripture interpretations handed down by the ignorant, the prejudiced, or those with an agenda to promote. I'm just as fed up with ministers who persist in treating homosexuals as some special class of unredeemable sinner--and therefore "less-than"--as I am with gay activists who persist in justifying their sin through questionable Bible scholarship.
 
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October 20, 2005, 4:38 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

quote from sboyd55: "

How can any thinking person say it is OK to be a homosexual and act on it, but being a pedophile and acting on it, is not OK? Look it up in the dictionary, both are sexual ordinations: A predisposition in favor of something. I realize a three-year-old child cannot give consent, but if the person was born with that sexual predisposition in favor of small children, should we condemn him for acting on it?" 

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

 

 

 

 

How can ANY thinking person see ANY relationship between loving, consenting relationships between two adults, and raping babies??? when I act on my attraction to other women, I enter into a consesual relationship, there are healthy boundaries, and an equality of power. not to mention it's legal, it doesn't hurt anyone and it's enhances the lives of both parties involved. raping babies destroys lives, cannot be consensual, does not enhance lives, is not legal, does not have an equal power dynamic, and if i didn't mention it before, it destroys lives!!! I am terrified of someone who sees consensual love and child molestation as the same thing...that's as scary to me as someone who molests children. 

 
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October 20, 2005, 4:53 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: ddsmommy

Anjela, 

      I think that you are just trying to cry predjudice because people won't except your life style but I sure don't see you accepting anybody elses life style!  All homosexuals have an agenda.  They are all out there crying "poor poor me!" and want everyone to feel sorry for THEIR CHOICE in life!  And yes, it is a CHOICE.  Read your Bible and what God has to say about it and it is VERY clear!  Your sister is wrong that if you accepted Jesus that you can live any way you feel like living and you will just go to heaven.  You obviously never truly wanted to surrender your ENTIRE life to Christ because if you did you could have changed a long time ago and be heterosexual today in your actions.  You have always been heterosexual inside.  God did not make you that way.  Does He love you, Of course!  He loves me too even while I was a sinner and not saved.  I chose to trust in Christ and fully surrender my entire life to him and HE changed me once I repented of my sin and asked Him to save me and change my life.  You can turn over a new leaf  by yourself over and over but ultimately you will fail every time because you can't do it on your own.  So until you are willing to admit to God that homosexuality is a sin and nothing less just like alcoholism and stealing are sins, you will never be saved and you will never be free from this sin in your life.  Don't get me wrong, your homosexuality is no worse of a sin than any other sin that anyone has ever committed.  I would be happy to give you the numerous scriptures that I know are blatently against homosexuality.  God is a God of love but He is also a just God!  I think your father dying might have had something to do with your choices.  Maybe not.  There is usually some trauma that happened in the homosexuals life.  I do not hate homosexuals, just the sin.  I love every person that God has ever created.  But God gives us all a choice whether to choose Him and His way or to go our own way.  The Bible even says that after a certain time that He will give homosexuals over to a debased mind.  Meaning He will leave you to be in the life style you choose and He will not bother you further.  Yes, you will die in your sin and spend the rest of eternity in Hell burning for eternity.  Jesus doesn't want you there so please choose Him before it is too late!  He loves you and is waiting patiently.  

Wow!! You sure must know a lot of people to claim you know ALL homosexuals AND their agendae! I'll let you go now, you must be hecka' busy knowing so many people. 

  

By the way "all" homosexuals do not have that agenda, you're wrong. I don't care how you justify that comment, you have removed all credibility in your entire post by claiming you know all homosexuals.  

 
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October 20, 2005, 4:57 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: mr_lion

My theory is - All humans are born potentially bi-sexual and yes, sexuality starts at birth.  The new born is sexual.  It is just not manifested in children the same way as during puberty, when the physical characteristics start to set in.   

  

Do NOT confuse sexuality with behavior.  I said children are sexual and do have sexual feelings.  I did not say that they necessarily act out in terms of what we would call "sexual acts."  Children may act out a sexual feeling in ways that we would not necessarily consider sexual.   

  

For instance, I know now that I felt sexual attraction in connection with males before I was 4 Yrs old. 

  

This is a true story:  I remember once when my 11 yr old male Cousin came to my house for a visit.  I owned a toddler's ride-about stuffed horse.  My prized possession!  My cousin took my horse away  from me and sat down on it very hard, bending the legs.  He was clearly too heavy for it and it was starting to break.  I remember being incredibly frustrated and crying at him to get off my horse  before he ruined it completely.  He remained on it bouncing and laughing.  While all this was happening, I can recall experiencing a sexual feeling, a kind of pleasure/frustration all at once, perhaps from seeing him straddling my horse.  There was absolutely no physical contact between us.  I believe an adult then came in and ordered him off the horse.  In any case, the legs were almost crushed..  Now to my 3 1/2 Yr old mind, all horses were male animals then.  I recall that after the visitors had left and I was alone in my room with the stuffed horse, I pulled my pants down and proceeded to piddle all over it, soaking and ruining the soft fabric.  I was probably punished, after all I was already potty trained, my parents having no idea why I did such a thing.  My thoroughly ruined horse was thrown out.   I definitely know now that my childish urination act was clearly, an act of masturbation.   It came about as a result of the powerlessness and frustration I felt about my prized toy, and the fact that it was ruined by another male.  The fact that the horse (in my mind) was male, probably had some significance too. 

  

I present that true scenario just as one example of how a toddler might act out his/her sexuality   And believe me, that act was definitely sexual.  I still remember it. 

  

As a Psychologist, I have been studying human sexuality for over 40 years.  I would suggest you read some of the works of Sigmund Freud regarding sexuality. 

  

BTW, nobody can choose to "fall in love."  Falling in love is quite involuntary and is a sexual manifestation.  One might fall in love with someone of the same sex.  Although falling in love is not love, it certainly is a prerequisite for starting a sexual relationship, that hopefully will lead to true love.  Otherwise, one might as well just have a platonic relationship with someone that is loved.  I'd suggest reading M. Scott Peck MD - "The Road Less Traveled"  for further explanations regarding what is love and what it is not love. 

well put, bravo
 
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October 20, 2005, 4:58 pm PDT

STRAIGHT???

Quote From: maria_44

What do you mean, I "did not choose to be straight"? 

  

Being "straight" is the NORMAL way to be born! It's the way everyone is born. YOU choose to be different and go away from that normality. 

  

As far as "love" being a hard concept to understand, I disagree. I'm married with children. I know what love is. The love I cannot understand is the one that happens when woman loves woman and man loves man sexually. Try as hard to accept that as I have, I don't understand that. 

The question is ment to be, "When did you know that you were straight? When did you choose to be straight?" 

  

As a gay male, for as long as I can remember as a child, I wanted to be a girl. Why? Because girls marry boys.  

  

I remember, as an adolesent, choosing to be straight, haveing hompsexual thoughts, and replacing those thoughts with straight sex. Left me in constant conflict, internally, and ultimately, left many girls hurt and used. 

  

Love is someting that is found in one's heart and mind towards others.  

- If you are a man, and know and love your father, this does not make you gay, yet you know love for another man. 

- If you are a woman, and know and love your mother, then the same applies. 

  

The expression of love towards another person of the same sex seems to be what you do not fully understand. Please sepperate the sex act from the feelings for a moment and remember back to when you loved another person of the same sex. It comes from your heart, not your groin. 

  

Your choice on expressing your love on a physical level is a choice. As to whom and how. Be it a handshake, a kiss or hug, or sex. We all choose to whom and how we show our love.  

  

However, when it comes to physical sex, I can speek from the point of knowing when I chose to be straight, and have straight sex. Didn't work for me and I was not a happy person. Not a happy person for the internal struggle I felt and not happy for the "use-en and lose-em" pattern I saw happening because of the internal conflict. 

  

But once I came out and realized that I was lying to myself, I fell in love. :0 

 
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October 20, 2005, 5:02 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: lapine

  

I totaly agree with you !  

  

I think that "singling people out of God's love" is like being racist.  

B I N G O 

 

God and religion have been used for too long in the persicution and death of mankind by the hands of man. 

  

That's God's job, not man's.  

  

  

 
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