Quote From: mr_lionMy theory is - All humans are born potentially bi-sexual and yes, sexuality starts at birth. The new born is sexual. It is just not manifested in children the same way as during puberty, when the physical characteristics start to set in.
Do NOT confuse sexuality with behavior. I said children are sexual and do have sexual feelings. I did not say that they necessarily act out in terms of what we would call "sexual acts." Children may act out a sexual feeling in ways that we would not necessarily consider sexual.
For instance, I know now that I felt sexual attraction in connection with males before I was 4 Yrs old.
This is a true story: I remember once when my 11 yr old male Cousin came to my house for a visit. I owned a toddler's ride-about stuffed horse. My prized possession! My cousin took my horse away from me and sat down on it very hard, bending the legs. He was clearly too heavy for it and it was starting to break. I remember being incredibly frustrated and crying at him to get off my horse before he ruined it completely. He remained on it bouncing and laughing. While all this was happening, I can recall experiencing a sexual feeling, a kind of pleasure/frustration all at once, perhaps from seeing him straddling my horse. There was absolutely no physical contact between us. I believe an adult then came in and ordered him off the horse. In any case, the legs were almost crushed.. Now to my 3 1/2 Yr old mind, all horses were male animals then. I recall that after the visitors had left and I was alone in my room with the stuffed horse, I pulled my pants down and proceeded to piddle all over it, soaking and ruining the soft fabric. I was probably punished, after all I was already potty trained, my parents having no idea why I did such a thing. My thoroughly ruined horse was thrown out. I definitely know now that my childish urination act was clearly, an act of masturbation. It came about as a result of the powerlessness and frustration I felt about my prized toy, and the fact that it was ruined by another male. The fact that the horse (in my mind) was male, probably had some significance too.
I present that true scenario just as one example of how a toddler might act out his/her sexuality And believe me, that act was definitely sexual. I still remember it.
As a Psychologist, I have been studying human sexuality for over 40 years. I would suggest you read some of the works of Sigmund Freud regarding sexuality.
BTW, nobody can choose to "fall in love." Falling in love is quite involuntary and is a sexual manifestation. One might fall in love with someone of the same sex. Although falling in love is not love, it certainly is a prerequisite for starting a sexual relationship, that hopefully will lead to true love. Otherwise, one might as well just have a platonic relationship with someone that is loved. I'd suggest reading M. Scott Peck MD - "The Road Less Traveled" for further explanations regarding what is love and what it is not love.
Iwill also adress the message:
"what you said was "so at that point the true for life sexual preference is developt"
That isn't exactly saying it's not a choice. You clearly don't think orientation is set at birth. So how do these preferences suddenly manifest and why? "
By rlanthier
(OFF TOPIC)
Well first things first In my post I treid to say that falling in love is NOT a choice I'm sorry if my choice of words wasn't proving my point. (that is why I wrote a "computer program" in a post or so earlier)
The reason why I said that 4/5/6 years old didn't have that sexual tendency was because it was said on the forum and my earliest memory of that tendency was at seven in which I had a girl and in my memory the feeling I had then was different from the feeling from when I like a woman now. (I know only a year of difference but it can be a lot)
and Maybe I was wrong to say that a four year old doesn't have sexual tendencies. But at birth is a bit to soon for me, a baby can't even reconize his own reflection as being himself untill the age of (6) months if I'm not mistaken. He doesn't even know what his feet and hands are, so I think that birth might be a bit to soon to believe for me.
Then I do not think sexual preference just pops up, It will probably linger round for a longer time, but at the age of 16/17 years most come out, and some have had a girlfriend before aswell (side note: In the Netherlands it is a lesser deal to be gay, though I haven't checked with my friends, then in the US where you are almost condemmed to be gay) so I think that at that age a switch flicks and they at that point now or can interpret that they are gay. maybe I interpret it wrong and that they just want to tell it at that point.
Then I agree with you saing we begin as bisexuals. In the Netherlands we have a Dr. Love (I know cheesy name) on a tv music channel. On this show people between 13-25 give or take discuss their sexual problem or insecurity and you see more then once that males and females ask I have a sexual fantasy about the same sex am I gay, so I think that that really supports your theory.
then I shall also support my sexual expression timeline before I get any questions about that :)
at the age of 10 children start talking about seks in a gigly kind of way:
As a volunteer I work with children to keep them busy during one week of the summer holidays. I have had a group there with children roughly the age of 10. When speaking to them you will notice that they will interprit "anything they can" as sexual. Their sentances will often start with you said... hahaha...
I also worked with a group where the children are roughly 9 years old and they did not show this behavior.
they will form boy girl relationships at the age of twelve but in a gigly kind of way:
This comes from when I was at that age, at this time I first remember that couples were first formed on a major bases (new couples forming every day it seemed).
And yes I had a girl at the age of seven but then it wasn't at the same magnitude as at the age of twelve.
seriously dating starts somewhere around 13 years in which french kissing is "being explored"
again own experience.
at the age of 16/17 teens are ready to have sex:
I base this on the 2004 study by durex on sex experience worldwide though globally it stands on 17.7 years in both the US and the Netherlands this is sooner (16.9 & 16.4 resp)
Thatis also why I think that sex education by the parents should not start later then the age of 12 because they openly express their curiosity at the age of 10 and education in schools should not start later then 13 years. Ow and when talking about it do not only speak about protection or the concequentions but also about the pleasures, it sticks better that way
In countries with open sex education policy teen pregnacy is much lower then in countries without them. I do not have the results on a sheet but search on the internet there are loads of sites on the subject.
I hope I made my point less open to suggestion and interpretation. and that I have clarified why I stand on the subject like I do.
(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.
