Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

statistically, there is a higher rate of domestic violence in heterosexual households than in same-sex households.  

wouldn't that make same-sex households a healthier environment for children to grow up in? statistically speaking, I mean. 

It sounds like you are saying that people should mind their own business.  Is that true?  Well if I follow your logic and apply it to another situation it may look like this:  I'm walking down the street and I see a teenage girl who is standing directly in front of me.  She has a razor in one hand and her other wrist is exposed.  As I walk toward her, I see her take the razor and drag it repeatedly across her wrist.  Should I watch her do it and mind my own business?  Should I disregard her dying condition and instead nurse my own cuts that I may have gathered that day?  Your logic says that I should NOT call 9-1-1, bandage her wounds, stay with her till the paramedics are there to treat her and contact her family.  According to your logic, I should just mind my own business. 

  Does that sound like a good thing to do to you?  Does that sound loving?  

    In the situation above, if I were to decide whether I would help or not help I needed to make a JUDGEMENT.  I would have to decide whether the wounds were bad enough to warrant the help of paramedics, I would need to judge the girl's mental condition to decide whether or not she would need mental help after the dilemma was over and I would need to make judgements on the people around us to see if they would help and in what ways they could.    Judgements get a bad rap but to judge is basically a critical analysis, appraisal or assessment of something.  While it is not anyone's place except God's to judge a person,  we all are able and rightfully so, to judge a behavior.   When you truly love people you are concerned about them all the time, especially, when they are doing something (behavior) that will hurt themselves or others.  A real Christian is a person who is being transformed by Christ to become like Christ.  When this happens, a person develops a heart like Christ and they begin to feel about humanity the way that God does.  God is concerned about all of us.  He does not want us doing things that are harmful to us or others.  That's what all His rules are about:  protecting us from doing things that hurt us or others because He loves us so much!!!!    God is our Heavenly Father and He wants to protect us from danger.  Any good parents sets up rules for their kids so that they won't get hurt, right?   That is the same thing that God does because of His love.  Now that same good parent must enforce those rules or they won't protect the kids right?  And if the kid does not follow the rules, the kid has to be disciplined right?  That is the same thing God does for us because He loves us.  His discipline proves He loves us and that He is good.    

   God is equally loving and Just!!!  He both loves us and judges our behavior.  That is everything we do right and everything we do wrong.  He sets the rules for right and wrong because He is perfect and loving so His rules are right.  He tells us what is right and wrong in His Holy Word, The Bible.    Some people are trying to show how this behavior is wrong because they care about people and don't want to see them hurt and as  I stated earlier, if you truly love someone, you want them to do what is right so bad things won't happen as a result of their behavior.  If you really love someone, you tell them the TRUTH.  Just like if you are dating someone or are married to them you expect them to be honest with you--even when it hurts.  That's what Christians are trying to do.  Some can and must do it in a more loving fashion.  But the truth still remains--they must do it.   Kind of like the slogan "Friends don't let Friends drink and drive" because you know the consequences, Christians don't let fellow Christians or non-Christians continue to live in sin because we know the consequences.   You say to let people live life to the fullest.  Well the only way for people to do that is to accept Jesus Christ as lord and Savior.  You say there are no second chances and that is so true so people must do what is right while there is still time!!!!  The first way to love and help them is to tell them the truth about sin and then to tell them how much God loved them that he would make himself flesh, be born of a virgin, and live a perfect life among us to show us how to do it.  After that much love, he loves us even more by allowing himself to be ridiculed, hurt, persecuted, embarrassed, harassed, beaten, bruised and even killed so that people can come out of sin which includes homosexuality and receive His full love and acceptance of them through their acceptance of Christ Jesus.  I would love to talk with you some more about how this freedom is possible for all if you'd like.  Just respond to this message.  I appreciate your opinion and hope you have the same appreciation for mine.    Have a great day!!!! 

Romans 1:21-31 

The key to these passages is the word "natural". But first the story for those who are not familier with it.  In these versus we see that there is a group of people who turn away from God. From this point on their lives begin to spiral downward and they commit all sorts of sins. One of which is turning from what is “natural” for them to that which is “unnatural”.

The issue here revolves around the word “natural” which is derived from two Greek words phusikos (Strong's #5446) and phusis (Strong's #5449). These words literally mean that which is a persons "natural disposition" and something that comes "instinctively" to them. In other words, it is who you are naturally; without reprogramming, counseling, or any other form of behavioral modification that attempts to change your behavior to that which society has deemed acceptable.

You ask any gay person what their natural sexual orientation is and they won’t even hesitate to tell you that being gay is. The problem is of course when you discuss the issue with a heterosexual person. Unfortunately many times people who belong to the majority tend to think of themselves as the ‘norm’ and therefore what is ‘natural’. Everyone else falls into another category altogether and in some cases is considered even slightly abnormal. 

Our sexual orientation is no different. The vast majority of our population is predominately heterosexual in nature  (approx. 90-95%) with the remaining minority being homosexual (approx. 5-10%). Researchers have found that these percentages remain pretty much the same across all racial and cultural lines. Varying only by the amount of tolerance or intolerance a particular society has for such differences.  

Another key point in Paul’s story is that the people turned away from God FIRST and THEN began living a sinful ‘lifestyle’. If homosexuality is a sin. By this description we should see that every homosexual person first turned away from God and THEN became a homosexual. Yet I’ve seen everything but. I’ve met numerous Christians who were gay. Some were saved before they came to grips with their sexuality. Some were saved after they “came out”. There is no common denominator. I can only conclude that ones sexual orientation has nothing to do with ones relationship with God. 

Another important point to keep in mind is what Jesus taught us concerning those who have ‘fallen away’ from God. That being that those who are separated from God will envariably exhibit the full gambit of bad spiritual “fruit” in keeping with who they serve. Jesus said that “a good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.” (Matthew 7:18) Therefore “by their fruits you will know them.” (Matthew 7:20)  

When I met my first Christian gay woman I knew something was a miss with the Church’s doctrine concerning homosexuals. Here standing before me was a person who professed Jesus Christ as their lord and savior and exhibited in their life the full plethoria of “good fruit” that Paul described in Galatians 5:22-23. How could this be? According to Jesus good fruit could not be produced on such a “bad tree”. If homosexuality was a terrible sin that separated us from God it was physically and spiritually impossible for this woman to be standing before me and yet she was. 

Only one conclusion remained. That being that ones sexual orientation was not, in and of itself, a sin. It was instead just another variation in God’s grand scheme of diversity and as such we should not reject it merely because it was different. 

Note: There is a much more thorough discussion of Romans and the other 'anti-gay' passages on the web site www.gaychurch.org which is a sister site of Justin's. Check out the section "Gay and Christian?" there you will find 3 excellent series of articles on the matter. One from E T Sundby the author of "Calling the Rainbow Nation Home" another from Justin the author of the web site truthsetfree.com and another from Bruce Lowe a retired (straight) Baptist minister and a theological school teacher. 

"I also have a problem with the Bible being taken out of context. "  

-- So do I. 

" We just keep hearing the same thing about 'hate' 'close-minded' etc." 

-- How else do you describe folks who believe their intrepretation of Scripture is the only intrepreation out there? Worse yet, if you or someone else believes Scripture is saying something else then you are labeled as "believing lies and manipulations" or taking Scriptures "out of context" 

" Yes, I've studied the scriptures and they've been posted here a few times by people but no responses on them." 

-- Perhaps there are no responses because people have things to do and it takes awhile for their comments to be posted. Or worse yet - they believe you are close minded and only label others with differing opinions as believing in "lies and manipulations". Learning new things requires honest dialog and an open mind. 

Jenna if you want to discuss the Scriptures I have no problem with that. Where do you want to begin? The story of Sodom or in the New Testament? Your choice.