Dr. Phil.com - Messageboards - 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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October 21, 2005, 6:01 pm PDT

what the Bible REALLY says about homosexuality

Quote From: mtnlady1

Is that you believe that being gay is a sin which it is not. Your logic is as 'illogical' as it would be for me to condemn heterosexuals from getting married. You can call anything you want a sin but that doesn't make it so. Your interpretation of Scripture may be different from mine but that doesn't make it right. It just makes it different.

Now if you want to talk scripture concerning this matter how about this... Jesus gave us the great commandment of love did He not?

Matt 22:37-40 (NIV)

37 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Do illegal drug habits break the great commandment of love? Yes. Why? Because they cause harm to ones body thus violating the second commandment (i.e. "Love your neighbor as you love yourself").

You compared homosexuality to adultery - again they have nothing in common. Adultery is the conscious choice to cheat on ones spouse. Such actions again break the great commandment of love. They hurt your spouse.

How does homosexuality break the great commandment of love? It doesn't. A loving, committed relationship between two gay people is as God ordained as two heterosexual people living in a loving relationship.

Drugs, adultery etc... have nothing in common with either heterosexuality or homosexuality. You are comparing 'apples to oranges' as my Grandmother used to say.

Even though this comment was not directed to me, I'd like to add my input.

If you want to talk about what the Bible and what it says on the subject, then please do so. However, don't disregard what is says against it. First off, look in the Bible dictionary (I'm reading from the King James Version) under "Homosexuality". What does it compare it to in parentheses? I'll tell you; "Sexual immorality". Why doesn't it say "see also Love, companionship, marriage"?

Next, in Leviticus 18:22, it says "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination." If you look at the footnotes under that verse, you'll see that it is referring to homosexuality.

I don't have time to quote all of these scriptures to you, gotta go, but read them before responding to this post. Please.

Leviticus 18:22

Isaiah 3:9

Romans 1:27

Jude 1:7

Genises 13:13, 18:20

Ezekiel 16:50

2 Timothy 3:3

If you're really interested in this discussion, please read all of these. Some of them, you may not see that they are talking about homosexuality, but like I said previously, look at the FOOTNOTES, and you'll see exactly what their talking about.

I might not respond until tomorrow, but I'll try to get back tonight.

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maria_44

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October 21, 2005, 6:03 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: rlanthier

Why does God create gay animals? There are many documented cases of homosexual behavior among mamallian species. How can something be in nature and be against God's law, since God created nature.

How often do you see animals engaging in homosexual behavior? How often do you see humans engaging in it? Do the math.

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evlfighter

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October 21, 2005, 6:06 pm PDT

10/19

I am a ex bi sexual... I never acted on my wants when I discovered that I was bi but I did "molest" a family member when I was younger and am ashamed of it. It is ingrained in you at birth and I do not think that homosexuality is a choice... I think that it is something that in ingrained in you from birth or from things in your lives..... I am a christian but I do not disagree with homosexuality if i know the person and there life a bit

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rlanthier

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October 21, 2005, 6:06 pm PDT

animal watchers

Quote From: maria_44

How often do you see animals engaging in homosexual behavior? How often do you see humans engaging in it? Do the math.

The math has been done. I'm not on observer of sexual behaviour among mammals, including humans (unlike yourself apparently). I just know the numbers are comparable from those whose science requires that they do watch. In any case any occurence of this wretched perversion in God's creation cries out against His own laws.

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onthefarm

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October 21, 2005, 6:07 pm PDT

10/19 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: rlanthier

So many words to so little purpose. The analogy between sex and drugs, sex and molestation , sex and something harmful begs the question. I have yet to get a coherent non-circular answer as to what harm is caused by consensual sex.

You argue that consent equals rightness. The analogies were to illustrate that mutual consent seemed to me to be a week argument for the rightness of homosexuality. I suppose I was hoping to press you to dig deeper ...probably hoping you would come up lacking and then agree with me! We do like people to think our way, don't we!

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rlanthier

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October 21, 2005, 6:13 pm PDT

Shame on ewe

"Approximately eight percent of rams exhibit sexual preferences [that is, even when given a choice] for male partners (male-oriented rams) in contrast to most rams, which prefer female partners (female-oriented rams).

This percentage approximates the 10% found in humans.

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rlanthier

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October 21, 2005, 6:16 pm PDT

another misconstruction

Quote From: onthefarm

You argue that consent equals rightness. The analogies were to illustrate that mutual consent seemed to me to be a week argument for the rightness of homosexuality. I suppose I was hoping to press you to dig deeper ...probably hoping you would come up lacking and then agree with me! We do like people to think our way, don't we!

Are you doing this on purpose? I didn't claim anything. I asked a question. What is it about consensual sex that is so vile? To tell me that it compares with vile things is begging the question. That means it's just stating that it's vile because it's vile, which is no answer. The condition of consent is meant to rule out the evil of coercion. What evil then is left?

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mtnlady1

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October 21, 2005, 6:18 pm PDT

Then we are in agreement!

Quote From: onthefarm

I am saying that I have a responsibility to decide what is right or wrong for ME, and I have made a decision about homosexuality. Obviously, your decision is different than mine, but making that decision is your responsibility. Arguing about what the bible says will not be how either of us reach the truth--for me, it will be studying the bible and communicating with God through prayer because I am a Christian. If you, too, are a Christian you will have to search for yourself as well. If you are not a Christian, it doesn't matter to you what the bible says, so an argument about what the bible says is useless in that case as well. I have found the answer for ME on the issue of homosexuality (though I am still searching for answers about other things)...you must find the answer for YOU. And as we search for our own answers for the issues of our own lives, we must do our utmost understand that each of us has our own searches, struggles, and faults --and because of that understanding allow others to find their own way without casting stones. It isn't my business what you and God (if you include him in your decisions) decide is right for your life. My business is following what I believe the laws for MY life are! No amount of arguing about what the bible says will find the answers for anyone.

That being that there are two different ways to interpret Scripture on this issue. One group believes homosexuality to be - in and of itself a sin. And the other group does not. Both base their opinions on Scripture.

Therefore (and this IS important) - because the matter is a personal matter between ones self and God and BECAUSE there are two different ways to interpret the matter (just like the great matters that have divided the church before this issue). Both sides should be given equal time and courtesy to be heard and then LEAVE IT UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE WHERE GOD IS LEADING THEM.

What does this mean? That well meaning, but very, very harmful Christians who are quick to condemn gays should stop it immediately. Present each side with love and courtesy and then step aside. Let the Holy Spirit do his job! That being to "lead us" and "guide us" onto "all truth".

I think the wise words of the Pharisee Gamaliel are appropriate here. That being when Peter and the other Apostles were brought before the Sanhedrin and the crowd started to chant for them to be stoned. Gamaliel stayed their hand and cautioned them saying "Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them; you will only find yourselves fighting against God." (Acts 5:38-39)

Amen! Let the Rainbow Revival continue forth! Great things are happening in the Church folks! Great things indeed! It's a shame you can't see what an awakening has (and is!) transpiring throughout the gay community! "If God be for (us), who can be against (us)?" Amen.

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mtnlady1

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October 21, 2005, 6:21 pm PDT

Shame on you on the farm!

Quote From: onthefarm

You argue that consent equals rightness. The analogies were to illustrate that mutual consent seemed to me to be a week argument for the rightness of homosexuality. I suppose I was hoping to press you to dig deeper ...probably hoping you would come up lacking and then agree with me! We do like people to think our way, don't we!

You just stated to me in your post that both sides base their opinion on Scripture and thus it should be left up to the individual to decide! Then you go and 'dump' on someone because they believe differently than you and tell them they should "dig (a little) deeper" so that they can find the truth -- i.e. find the same 'truth' that you see. Shame! Shame! So much for 'both sides have equal validity'...

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rlanthier

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October 21, 2005, 6:25 pm PDT

ah the King James

Quote From: maria_44

Even though this comment was not directed to me, I'd like to add my input.

If you want to talk about what the Bible and what it says on the subject, then please do so. However, don't disregard what is says against it. First off, look in the Bible dictionary (I'm reading from the King James Version) under "Homosexuality". What does it compare it to in parentheses? I'll tell you; "Sexual immorality". Why doesn't it say "see also Love, companionship, marriage"?

Next, in Leviticus 18:22, it says "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is an abomination." If you look at the footnotes under that verse, you'll see that it is referring to homosexuality.

I don't have time to quote all of these scriptures to you, gotta go, but read them before responding to this post. Please.

Leviticus 18:22

Isaiah 3:9

Romans 1:27

Jude 1:7

Genises 13:13, 18:20

Ezekiel 16:50

2 Timothy 3:3

If you're really interested in this discussion, please read all of these. Some of them, you may not see that they are talking about homosexuality, but like I said previously, look at the FOOTNOTES, and you'll see exactly what their talking about.

I might not respond until tomorrow, but I'll try to get back tonight.

You said: "First off, look in the Bible dictionary (I'm reading from the King James Version) under "Homosexuality". "

Well of course the TRANSLATIONS which are not without INTERPRETATIONS will say that. Are you versed in the original texts? Both Hebrew and Greek?

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