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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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frustrated
June 4, 2006, 4:38 pm PDT

read the Bible

Hi, As the title suggests we need to read the bible. Yes homosexuallity is a sin. Ok that being said so is lying, murder , rape, stealing etc and the list goes on. here in lies the problem we are missing the problem.  Sin is not the reason any one will or will not go to heaven. "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Romans 3:23. the reason someone will or will not go to heaven is whether or not they chose Jesus as their savior. that was the reason he came to die to be a payment for our sins the only requirement is that we freely accept this gift.  Yes we can get into all sorts of legalism about teaching and membership but these issues take us off the real Question of has that person truly accepted Christ and if they have it is than issue between them and God and he already sees them as righteous and blameless by the covering of Jesus sacrifice for them on the cross.  Satan loves it when we get involved in these meaningless discussions and concentrate an the worldly aspects of our existence and forget about the spiritual end of things. "for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood , but against principalities, against powers,against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places"Ephesians 6:12  we need to quit warring amongst ourselves and take faith in the on who has already defeated Satan on our behalf and trust in him and not our own works. The most important decision you make in your life is what you do with Jesus.
 
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angry
June 4, 2006, 4:44 pm PDT

God HATES??

Quote From: renagade

God Hates the sin of homosexualism, not the person.  Once homosexuals are saved then it is their duty to read the Word of God and realize that they are in a continual sin and change.
God doesn't hate ANY ONE or ANY THING. At least the "God" that I happen to believe in. Perhaps YOUR God is full of wrath and hate and vengeance. I was told that Jesus came to wipe away the "old law" (old testament) and replace it with a NEW law - Love God above all else, and love your neighbor as yourself. Love, Love, Love. No "hate" in there anywhere. My God loves me, because s/he CREATED me - perfect, glorious and beautiful in every way. I don't believe in a God that places me in a place of "sin" or anything negative from my beginning. But you see, this is all a moot point. We live in the greatest country on earth - a country whose forefathers foresaw this sort of conflict - and therefore built a country based on the separation of church and state... Which means that you can believe what EVER you want to about your God - you have no right to inflict those beliefs on ME. It's that simple. I can celebrate the God of DIRT if I want to, that's my right - but I have no right to inflict those beliefs on YOU. So in this wonderful nation, you and I are to have EQUAL rights. Sadly, some "Christians" have made this a JOKE, continue to make this country LOOK like a JOKE, because they are self-righteous and arrogant and self-obsessed, and seem to believe that their "belief" system is the system that the nation should adopt as a whole - regardless of race, color, creed or sexual identity. NO. That is not the country MY forefathers sought to create!!
 
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blank
June 4, 2006, 4:55 pm PDT

Enough!

Quote From: ladybug11

well  being gay is a sin!  god loves all but hate the sins!  being gay is one of the sins!!  its wrong!  god made man and woman to be together not the same sex!!
It's getting ridiculous, this persecution & judgment against our fellow Americans. Ours is a secular society, and while you've a right to your opinion without facts, bringing this 'sin' nonsense to a public forum serves nothing more than to continue that persecution. It's long past time that we address bigotry and its effect on our society. I for one, am fed up with it.
 
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June 4, 2006, 5:00 pm PDT

bashing homosexual Americans

Quote From: powers009

What if your beliefs are that being gay is a sin. There are many verses in the Bible that are very anti-gay. Do you believe that God changes his mind? If your child is doing something that you feel is wrong do you still stand behind that choice because it makes him/her happy? Do you look the other way no matter what because the actions makes them happy?
Your bible was written by men, not a 'god.' Shame on you for passing such cruel and inflammatory judgments on total strangers. You suggest you are a 'Christian.' What would Jesus say about what you're doing? The only judgment Jesus made, according to your own 'bible', is that whatever you do to the (so called) least among you, you do to him. Funny way to honor someone you feign to follow.
 
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ecstatic
June 4, 2006, 5:07 pm PDT

Thank you!

Quote From: kitspics

I disagree that all homosexuals choice of sexuality is genetic! 

  

In fact it has not been proven so scientifically and therefore should not be hypothesized as so! 

  

As well if you refer to the post mortum tests of  deceased male homosexuals you would find that a part of the brain failed to develop properly!  In other words it would be consistent with a brain abnormality!  

  

Neither do these findings hold up as well, because they were done only on males and on males who had died from aids! 

  

I find it sad that our medical and psychological communities have been so accepting of an unproven precept!   

  

I believe people become homosexual for a myriad of reasons!  And because of that we should not label it as they are just born that way!  The fact of bi-sexuality blows that idea completely out of the water!  

  

Not to mention it is my experience with at least a dozen women I've known, had ALL been sexually abused by a man at one point in their lives!  That their identiies and precepts of men were tied to these experiences was without question!  

  

I think it sad that the gay community became so militant they left no opening for themselves even to understand their sexuality better!  As well by their militance have invited people into their cause that have severe mental problems that are not gay, not happy and that the lifestyle they have adopted has become a way of escapism and rejection. 

  

Yes I do follow Christ! 

  

Regarding the commandments! 

  

For those who say they follow Christ they must remember the first commandment the Father who is one with Jesus made to mankind! 

  

Go forth and multiply. 

  

The homosexual lifestyle does not fulfill what mankind was created for.  Therefore it in no way complies with what the creator intended for man! 

  

In fact in animal species homosexuality is a form of natural selection! 

  

If you follow Jesus then you know that he said that all the other commandments rested on the first commandment and after that he would add that you love one another! 

  

I choose to do both.....therefore I do not condemn!  But neither do I condone!   

  

However no one can tell me they love the Lord with all their heart, mind and spirit and can still continue to live backwards to the direction the Farther has intended for them!  They are lying to my but most of all to themselves!  And I would challenge them to ask the holy spirit to enter them and tell them the truthe of these things! 

  

Other than that may the Love of Christ cover them! 

  

Peace and blessings 

Kit 

  

  

What the heck is it that you don't - won't - GET??! It HAS been proved, time and again, that our sexual identity IS formed in the earliest stages of our brain developement. You may stomp your feet and cover your ears and shout "La-la-la-la-la!!" all you WANT to - it doesn't take away the fact! Hahaha - I don't get why you can't accept that and move forward, just one teeny, tiny little step! What is your major malfunction, soldier?? You speak about it yourself, when you acknowledge that "post mortem", autopsies show that a part of the brain has "failed to develop" in homosexual persons - your own words!! So using your VERY OWN WORDS, you acknowledge that our brains are physiologically different - albeit an "abnormalilty" or not - it's a physical difference... So acknowledging this, you STILL believe there is some sort of "choice" involved somehow? Good grief! If you won't even listen to your OWN reason, how can you possibly be expected to listen to the voice of reason when it comes from someone else? For some, there is just NO opening of the mind to development. Perhaps you You also state that "...our medical and psychological communities have been so accepting of an unproven precept! " - you acknowledge that these communities ACCEPT this "precept" - yet you think they would accept this WITHOUT PROOF?? How naiive! Have you NO CONCEPT of what sort of hoops a "thesis" has to be put through in this country before such a "precept" could/would be accepted? Ha!! "In fact in animal species homosexuality is a form of natural selection! " - Clearly, I needn't say a word... Just as above, you continue to make my point(s) for me... You accept all my arguments, you just don't like the conclusions. Well DON'T like them - it doesn't CHANGE them any! Haha! Just read your own words, you'll see that you acknowledge all the same points that I have made earlier. Thank you very much!
 

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embarrassed
June 4, 2006, 6:01 pm PDT

What Bible are you reading??????

Quote From: tulseyjoe

There is absolutely no scripture in the Old Testament nor the New Testament which literally mentions what we in modern times would consider to be sexual activity by those who are exclusively homosexual. In the 3 chapters of the Bible which literally mention same-gender sexual activity, the situation is the pagan worship of fertility gods and/or goddesses by heterosexuals who have gone to a pagan temple or other place of worship to make a sacrifice of male "seed" to the false gods to insure more human offspring by those heterosexuals in relationship with women.  

  

One must read Leviticus chapters 18 through 20 in complete context where the Israelites are told not to follow the cultural/religious practices of the Canaanites which includes the worship of Asherah, aka Astarte, the Canaanite fertility goddess, and her male co-hort, Ba'al, aka Milcom or Molech (both words mean "king").  A male holy (Kodesh) person serving the goddess or god in that situation was called a "sodomite" elsewhere in the bible. "Kodesh" the word mistranslated as "sodomite" (in other Bible books) is literally a "holy" (person, place, or thing) in the Hebrew Language. 

  

Often this holy person representing the goddess Asherah would dress up in female drag and the male (definitely hetersosexual) would have sex with the male holy person and in the worshipper's mind and spirit, it was as if he was having sex with the goddess herself and not with a male at all.  

  

The only other place in the Bible where same-gender sexual activity is condemned is in Romans Chapter 1, In that chapter, the context where that takes place is also in a pagan fertility temple.  

  

To some ignorant right-wing Bible-thumpers, there is only one sin in that chapter; but, the real truth is that at the end of the chapter there is a whole list of other sins which those "thumpers" are guilty of  themselves. But, they act like those don't exist.  

  

Added note here: I did graduate work in theology at Oral Roberts University in the latter 1970s. The Roberts family and the university is in denial of the fact that Oral and Evelyn Roberts' first born son, Ronald Oral Roberts, left the closet after I went to ORU and he openly admitted to several people I knew that he was gay. Troy Perry, founder of the MCC denomination, wrote about Ronald in one of his books. A former local MCC pastor here in Tulsa told me that Ron and she were friends and that he definitely was gay. 

you say there is no mention of homosexuallity . How about Genesis 19, 1st Corinthians 6:9-10.  the problem is that it is a sin like any other and that people don't want it to be a sin because of bad teachin they think tha they will go to hell. that real problem is not sin that will send you to heaven or hell but your answer to the question of accepting Jesus as your savior. If you haven't done that it doesn't matter how "good" you have been heaven won't be your final destination. "Jesus said to him, I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the father  except through me." John14:6 he was speaking to Thomas at the time. I pray that your eyes will be opened to the truth of the word and not be decieved by satan's lies and treachery as he is the real enemy.
 
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blank
June 4, 2006, 6:36 pm PDT

I've been reading that book

Quote From: eden777

I laughed when I heard the story myself.  

   

I do question if some people need other people's approval of their lifestylies in order to be loved.  

   

Jesus loved the woman who was caught in adultry but he didn't approve of her lifestyle.  He said, "Go and sin no more," and you know, he could have thrown the stone but He didn't at the same time though, you see He didn't approve of her lifestyle.  

   

One does not have to approve of other people's lifestyles to love them.  

   

It's not our place to judge people.  

   

This world would be a better place if we could all just simply love each other inspite of our differences, no matter what the difference is...a difference of race, a difference of religion, a difference of sexual orientation, a difference in oppinions of whether or not homosexuality is moraly right or wrong.    

   

Should we be bitter against a person who believes in the sanctity of life if we believe in choice?  

   

Should we judge those who choose to abort their babies?  

   

Should we be bitter against one who believes in the sanctity of marriage if we believe in re-defining marriage?  

   

Should we judge the person who believes in re-defining marriage when we believe in the sanctity of marriage?  

   

One believes Jesus to be the Son of God, the creator of all things and one believes Him to be a mere human profit yet another believes Him to be Micheal the arch angel and some believe the ridiculous Da Vinci Code....I personaly can't see why a small group of people would get together and say, "let's create this concpiracy and then die horable deaths to cover it up,"  I don't know about you but that doesn't quite make sense to me.  

   

My point is...  

There is absolute truth.  There has to be a right and a wrong.    

Can we simply just love each other regardless.  

   

I am one of the most oppinionated persons one could ever meet but I will never judge people for believing differently than me.   I believe strongly in what I do, that doesn't mean that I should place a condition on other people to believe what I do if they want me to love them nor should I expect that from other people.  

   

Peace<><  

You bring up the Da VInci Code, interesting because after many people told me I should read it I have started to.  Everything that I have read so far about Pagan symbology is correct.  The author clears the misconception of the Pentacle, which most people do not understand.  I have not gotten very far in the book yet, but find it a very good read.  And so far, his historical take on symbology is correct, many Pagan temples indeed were turned into churches and still contain Pagan symbols inside the churches. 

  

Anyway, I know this doesn't really have anything to do with this topic, I just wanted to put my two cents in on this matter.  I still don't think being gay is a choice, what you mentioned above were choices.  I don't think being gay is wrong, just different. 

  

Have a good day. 

 
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June 4, 2006, 7:11 pm PDT

God created EVERYONE

 I feel this way - whom you sleep with is no-one's business but yours - people are people we all bleed the same we all have problems, hopes and dreams we were created differently for a reason. I don't know how anyone can think sexual orientation is a choice - why would anyone choose to be hated - thought as a freak of nature and the list could go on. My sister is a lesbian and she's only come out to myself and my mom - our mother doesn't acknowlege her sexuality or ask about her girlfriends she acts like the conversation never existed - I could care less she is still my loving sister and good friend - let people be who they are and except them for this.

 
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June 4, 2006, 10:19 pm PDT

Wow!

Quote From: tulseyjoe

"Proof-texting" is the taking of a phrase, sentence, chapter, etc., of literature out of its original historical context to either support one's view or condemn others. According to the the author of the textbook which I had when I took Biblical Hermeneutics (aka Bible Interpretation), the KJV translators did a dis-service to the Bible by dividing its books up into chapters and verses. Because of that, English speaking readers, especially, take phrases, sentences, verses, and even chapters of the Bible completely out of their original contexts and misuse them. Oh, I took that course when I was a graduate student at Oral Roberts University in the 1970s working on a Master of Arts in Theological and Historical Studies (MATHS) Degree. I attended there for 5 semesters. I was in denial of my sexual orientation then. 

  

The word mistranslated as "prostitute" in the Living Bible is "kodesh" for males and "kodeshah" for females. The word "Kodesh" and its feminine spelling Kodeshah" do not mean prostitute at all.  

  

When Deuteronomy was written, there were no vowel points in the Hebrew text at all. Those were added by a group of Jews a long time after the birth of Jesus. When referring to a person, "kodesh" refers to anyone serving a god, either a pagan god or YHWH, aka Yahweh or Jehovah. What the author of Deuteronomy was referring to is that none of the Children of Israel should be serving the Canaanite gods as holy persons.  

  

In regard to what is in 1 Corinthians 6:9-13, and the word translated as "male prostitutes," which is "malakoi," that word means "soft" and Jesus used the very same word when referring to the kind of clothing which John the Baptist did not wear.  

  

And that other word, arsenokoitai, mistranslated as "homosexual offenders," was NEVER used by any other of the Bible's authors other than the Apostle Paul.  . . . AND according to experts in historical documents  and other Greek writings, NOBODY, and I mean Nobody! used the word except Paul himself.  

  

Do not call the same-gender sexual activity in Leviticus 18:22  and Leviticus 20:13 homosexual acts. Oh, it's true that both of the persons involved are male adults; but, the actual sex act is not done by homosexuals at all! One of the was a Kodesh, a male holy person, and the other a married-to-a-woman heterosexual man who went to make a ritual sacrfice to the Canaanite fertility gods. And as i stated before, that "kodesh" would put on women's clothing pretending to be Asherah, the Canaanite fertility goddess. In the mind of the heterosexual man from the community, he was not having sexual activity with a male person at all, he was having sex with a woman, the goddess herself! 

  

It is interesting that people read the Bible without even doing any personal research into the very culture or cultures the Bible's Books' authors were discussing. If you, referring to the author of the person I quoted in this disucssion, don't know anything about the customs of the Canaanites and the Romans and their worship of false gods, you won't even understand what the authors of Leviticus, Romans, I & II Corinthians, and I & II Timothy are talking about in regard to pagan religions. 

  

In fact, Chapters 18, 19, AND 20 of Leviticus should be read as one complete context. The opening verses of Chapter 18 are repeated/summed up in the closing verses of Chapter 20.  

  

Oh, the original Living Bible was an English PARAPHRASE, not a translation, of the King James Version of the Bible. Mr. Taylor did not use the Hebrew nor Greek Texts to do that paraphrase. He made lots of mistakes in doing so.  

  

Literally here is what Leviticus 18:22 states when properly translated from the Hebrew: "And you (male) shall not lay  as one lays with a woman; that is "to'ebah" (a taboo in Hebrew culture/religion).  

  

Literally in translation, Leviticus 20:13 states: And a man who lies (or lays) with a male as one lies with a woman, both of them have done a "to'ebah." "To'ebah" is translated as "abomination" and "detestable" in various English versions of the Bible. If one eats shrimp, lobster, or even catfish, according to what is in the books of Moses, one has done a "to'ebah." If one eats meat with cheese on it, one has done a "toebah." It was to'ebah to eat pork. So a bacon cheeseburger is a doubled to'ebah!" Modern Bible-thumping "Christians commit what the OT writers called "to'ebah" almost every day of their adult lives.  

  

Real men who are exclusively homosexual in their sexual orientation and are comfortable with that, i.e. gay, do not pretend that one of them is female in same-gender sexual activity as in the Leviticus' explanation. 

I was very impressed with your knowledge.  I too was asking myself about these "quotes" from the bible.  It is amazing how ignorance can spread such hatred.  I believe in my heart that people who hate gay people (or the supposed "sin" of gay love) are frightened and insecure.  If there is indeed a judgement day, they are the ones who will be judged for their misuse of God's name to spread their hatred.
 
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June 4, 2006, 11:53 pm PDT

Choice?

Quote From: japochik

the only way to protest what is wrong is to speak loud.  the louder you are the better you are able to be heard.  if you think homosexuality is a choice, youre right.  read Romans 1: 21-27 to know what kind of a choice it really is. 

Just a question...do you think that gay people are ignorant of these scripture verses?  If there is one thing that is true is that Christian's always quote these scriptures either in judgment or in the hopes that they might be able to do the Holy Spirit's work of conviction.  Strong words but this is true.     

   

Have you read Roman's 2:1-4?  This is a message to not judge...in writing to the Corinthinian church that  was at large having to deal with Narcisism/relational idolatry...Paul continues to exhort the church by saying, "or do you show contempt for the things of God not realizing that it is the kindness of the Lord that leads people to repentance,"   

   

The kindness of the Lord leads people to repentance not condemnation.     

   

   

 
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