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Topic : 06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

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Created on : Friday, October 14, 2005, 03:56:41 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/19/05) Sexual orientation used to be something kept hidden from family and co-workers, but now more and more people are "coming out" and finding acceptance. Anjela says her mother and sister don't support her sexual orientation, and feel she can't be Christian and gay at the same time. Can they reconcile this touchy issue? Then, two men debate whether a person can go from gay to straight, and parents of a 4-year-old boy fear their son's desire to play with dolls and wear heels means he'll grow up to be gay. Are they overreacting to his wishes to be a princess instead of a prince? Talk about gender and gay issues here.


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June 8, 2006, 10:22 pm PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: judyblue22

I truly hope that you don't assume that people posting antigay tirades in any way represent Christianity. I am a Christian and I believe in and love the moral code given to us by Jesus.  It was very simple-love the Lord, your God and love your neighbour as you love yourself. 

  

Jesus sacrificed his life in a humble and forgiving way  purely in order to secure our salvation. Christians know that no one who believes in Him will be damned for their sins. 

  

He never taught us to thump the bible in the faces of people with whom we disagree nor did he ever support discrimination.  I suspect if he were here now, he would protect gay people from rabid homophobics the same way he did with the adulteress who was sentenced to be stoned.  It defames Jesus when his name is used in these anti-gay tirades. 

  

  

  

  

He never taught us to thump the bible in the faces of people with whom we disagree nor did he ever support discrimination 

  

He did tell us to minister to the unbelievers, thus we would be using his scriptures. Using scriptures is not thumping the bible in people's faces. It is using the word to introduce them to God and what he is about. From there, they choose their own path. The purpose of ministering to them is for when judgement day comes, they cannot say they never knew of him. God at least wants people to know of him, but accepts whatever decision they make. 

 
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June 8, 2006, 11:39 pm PDT

wow

I have been reading the message boards and I am amazed. Do any of you have a life?  I was shocked when I read a lot of your messages and  your views on how God looks at sin, salvation and what the bible says.  I do think knowing what the bible says about all things is a benefit in my daily life, You might think one is throwing scripture to intimidate another. I see it as having a good anchor in what I believe to be right and true.  Also according to what I believe to be truth we are all sinners who are in need of a savior. And yes you have a choice to believe Truth or not,, A choice heaven or hell. I am sadden that people are treated badly for being homosexual.. I in no way think any one should be treated like a second class citizen but I do think that the bible is very bold about what it says about sin.. I believe that it spells out what sin is and I do believe that homosexuality is a sin and a choice.  I think people can convince themselves and justify just about anything,  that does not make it right in any way..  I think the girl on the show was actually looking for attention and I felt sad for the mom and  sister I think the girl was wanting to make her family look bad and she was the one you looked bad.  I think that what true Christians need to do is follow the guide given by God and truly live a life of love(GODLY LOVE not what we know as love in this world), and righteousness  that in no way means that we condone or accept sin as a standard of life.  The foundation of Christianity is God in love sent his only son to die for sinners like all of us, to make a way for us to have a victorious life here on earth but also to have an eternity with Him.  Sadly for those who believe you can pick and choose what you want to believe from the bible is wrong the bible is very clear on a all or nothing stance.. I believe the day will come when we will all stand before our maker and with all my sin His blood will wash me white as snow (because I have lived a life after the things of God and I have not just acknowledge a God but served him and repented and accepted him as my Lord and Saviour) and I will have that pass into the "higher club" and You better bet I will be singing and dancing the whole way!!!!    
 
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June 9, 2006, 12:17 am PDT

The Bible states that

I would like someone to explain that to me because the words "homosexuality" or "homosexual"  were not even words until the late 1800's if not the early 1900's? As far as I have seen the only bible that has the word "homosexual" in it is the NIV, which in turn proves to me that over the years people have changed the words of the bible to suit their own particular belief system.  I happen to have quite a few bibles in my collection and all of the older ones do not use that word. If people would go back and actually research the ways that certain words were used in the times that they were written, you would understand truly what the bible says. I have a very hard time believing that  God created me to be a lesbian, but He condemns all homosexuals. How fair is that, I believe that  God created us all to be exactly who we are and he loves all of us for that. I also know that I am a Christian and my life as well as my "homosexual" lifestyle has been very richly blessed. When mine and my wife's relationship was going through difficult times. It was The Lord that we prayed to, and it was The Lord who brought us through that. And we became even closer and stronger then we were before in both our relationship with each other as well as our personal growth with God. So please tell me why God would both grow, and make prosperous a "sinful" relationship? We live our life 150% for The Lord and we do nothing without him, and guess what...we are so richly blessed for it. I can only  hope and pray  for the same blessing upon everyone. Because we are all His children, he created us, and most importantly He makes no mistakes.  I don't judge even those who judge me, because to judge is to act as God does, and I simply prefer to leave that up to him. God bless Everyone
 
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June 9, 2006, 12:56 am PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

When I watched this show again today I had to laugh at the daughter "Em" saying that her lesbian sister thought she could "pick and choose" from the bible.

   

  

I agree that the lesbian sister needs to learn to let some healing happen before she starts trumpeting about her sexuality to her family. Her sexual orientation doubtless factors into what makes her the person she is but she has to learn diplomacy. I think that's only reasonable.

   

  

However, my hackles were certainly piqued at the continued preaching of the Christians.

   

  

Did everyone see the episode where the girls in the Mennonite sect were brought back from the third-world nation of Belize to America and reunited with their mother?

   

  

If the ladies who call themselves Christians were to truly obey the bible then they would be wearing the bonnets and capes the same as those two girls.

   

  

1 Timothy Chapter 2 clearly states

   

  

"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array."

   

  

In other words no more jewelry, no designer labels, nothing flashy, they should have totally covered hair and body. If you're really committed to that way of life then the bible instructs that you should live like a 1st Century Judean. That means "tithing" your nice fancy three stall garage, split level, 4 bed, 3 bath, and moving into a shack with no running water or electricity somewhere in North Dakota or Nebraska.

   

  

1 Timothy Chapter 2 goes on to say

   

  

"Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety. "

   

  

That's what the bible says about women in general - according to the bible; women are only fit for the draconian traditional roles they've been assigned over the past couple of millennia and anything else is against this precious "God's law".

   

  

 

   

  

Personally I think more of women than that. I think of women as my equal as a man and I don’t think that gender prevents someone from doing any job they choose well.

   

  

 

   

  

To me, this so called "God's law" is a schizoid collection of seeming random acts of violence, hatred, persecution, murder, intolerance and cruelty smattered with a few common sense aphorisms which are trumpeted and held up as divinely inspired despite the absurdity of it.

   

  

According to the Old Testament, and “Deuteronomy” you should stone to death anyone you disagree with - including your own son if he is "stubborn and rebellious". Which teenage son isn't stubborn and rebellious?.. at least a little bit? Certainly you should stone me to death, priests of other religions etc. So this whole tolerance thing is very un-Christian.

   

  

Personally I don't buy a single word of it. I'm very much with the man who wrote the Constitution of this nation and the Fourth President, James Madison who wrote

   

  

"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every noble enterprise."  

Madison also wrote

   

  

"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution."   

Sources : The Madison’s by Virginia Moore, P. 43 (1979, McGraw-Hill Co. New York, NY) quoting a letter by JM to William Bradford April 1, 1774, and James Madison, A Biography in his Own Words, edited by Joseph Gardner, p. 93, (1974, Newsweek, New York, NY) Quoting Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments by JM, June 1785.

   

  

Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to William Short wrote

   

  

"I have examined all the known superstitions of the world, and I do not find in our particular superstition of Christianity one redeeming feature. They are all alike founded on fables and mythology. Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined and imprisoned. What has been the effect of this coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites; to support roguery and error all over the earth."

   

  

 

   

  

As for these ex-gay ministries which are, in my view, disgusting shams,  I would like to suggest that families struggling with religious issues consider counseling away from the source of their misery – the religion.

   

  

 

   

  

There are many sources for leaving Christianity in particular, and unshackling ones mind from religion can be an incredibly wonderful freeing and life affirming thing to do.  It kind of removes that clingy cosy blanketed feeling that religion gives you, but at the same time it brings the world into sharper focus, a higher resolution, emotions are real – not prescribed. Conversations can go anywhere – not just on pre-arranged routes around circular logic.

   

  

 

   

  

Go to an Internet Search engine and type in “Leaving Christianity” and you’ll find dozens of forums dedicated to the discussion of the merits of leaving behind the shackles of organized religion, and how to do it.

   

  

 

   

  

Dan Barker’s book “Losing faith in faith: From Preacher to Atheist” is a wonderful story of a preacher turned atheist that details the struggles, the bigoted injustices and the hateful and threatening correspondence he received when he announced his decision to become an atheist all the way through to him finding his true self and the joy of finally leading a rational life without lying to himself and to those around him.

   

  

 

   

  

Incidentally I have no affiliation with Dan Barker, his publicist, his publisher, his friends or family or himself personally. I just like his work.

   

  

 

   

  

Finally, if you really think your religion allows you to be free intellectually try telling them you want to leave and that you have decided that you don’t believe in God.  See how many of them talk to you after that, see how many threaten you with various things including hell, damnations and torture for all eternity.  See how many people attack you personally, some people who have left Christianity have even been the targets of violence from other churchgoers and even preachers themselves.

   

  

 

   

  

Leaving your religion may be the best thing you ever did for your life.  

  

   

  

   

  

 
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June 9, 2006, 4:59 am PDT

"I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: judyblue22

I truly hope that you don't assume that people posting antigay tirades in any way represent Christianity. I am a Christian and I believe in and love the moral code given to us by Jesus.  It was very simple-love the Lord, your God and love your neighbour as you love yourself. 

  

Jesus sacrificed his life in a humble and forgiving way  purely in order to secure our salvation. Christians know that no one who believes in Him will be damned for their sins. 

  

He never taught us to thump the bible in the faces of people with whom we disagree nor did he ever support discrimination.  I suspect if he were here now, he would protect gay people from rabid homophobics the same way he did with the adulteress who was sentenced to be stoned.  It defames Jesus when his name is used in these anti-gay tirades. 

  

  

  

  

As I read this message I was asking the Lord to give me the words to say that would reflect a true Christian view of this whole subject and I see you beat me to it!  You nailed the Christian attitude toward homosexuals.  It saddens me that "Bible Thumpers" has become the catch phrase for those of us that have read and will continue to read on a daily basis, the Holy Bible.    

   

The Holy Bible is the key to all the answers to all the questions of all mankind for all time, and people just let it lay on their coffee tables when the preacher comes by, otherwise, it just lays there collecting dust.  A Christian lives the Word, not just reads it. And as she said, Jesus is our model. If we do nothing but read those first chapters of the New Testament, our lives would never be the same.    

   

God designed us with a hole in our hearts.  He left that hole open to see what we would fill it with.  Until we discover that Jesus Christ is the only thing that will truly fit into that hole, we wander aimlessly from creature comfort to creature comfort.  Unless you are half sharp enough to get it, so many people miss the simple message of our Christ.  He spoke in simple parables that only the humble in heart can understand and preceive as a life style.  And the free will you mention, that is we have a free will to accept Heaven, or Hell.  There is no other choice.  

   

I've been praying for people like you. People who have missed the simple Gospel message and haven't drank of the "new wine" the Bible mentions.  It's out there people and it's growing!! You have to get into a little neighborhood church where the King James Bible is still preached by a true man of God. That means working in the church, making it run.  Women keeping their mouths closed on gossip and backbiting.  People who tithe to the Lord and live Godly lives, free of alcohol abuse, homes where family devotions are still practiced.  Daddy's who come home after work, Mom's who still run the home, kids who have been taught manners and respect and have a true man and woman of God, as role models. In modern times, Moms who are willing to die for their young. Daddys who stay plugged in, no matter what.  

   

Can Dr. Phil fix America?  He's sure doing a better job than the churches folks, wonder why that is? But that is a whole other subject....  

 
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June 9, 2006, 5:14 am PDT

Read Carefully!

Quote From: lucky24

Wow.  If you really believe  women in committed relationships are "submitting themselves to rape every night at the hands of a man to make them happy" it's no wonder you now bat for the other team, so to speak.  I shudder to think of the horrors you must have suffered in your life to have arrived at such an extreme opinion.  Hope you are getting or have gotten some help with dealing with whatever happened. 

Yet another time I was misunderstood! I have never been raped. I haven't suffered atrocities at the hands of men. I was simply stating that to force me to have sex with someone I am not in the least bit attracted to, just because your "book" says I have to, is the equivilant of rape. I don't want to be with a man, so why should I have to learn to "deal with it" as most people on this board are telling lesbians and gay men to do?  

 
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June 9, 2006, 5:30 am PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: xoxo06

He never taught us to thump the bible in the faces of people with whom we disagree nor did he ever support discrimination 

  

He did tell us to minister to the unbelievers, thus we would be using his scriptures. Using scriptures is not thumping the bible in people's faces. It is using the word to introduce them to God and what he is about. From there, they choose their own path. The purpose of ministering to them is for when judgement day comes, they cannot say they never knew of him. God at least wants people to know of him, but accepts whatever decision they make. 

I can pretty much guarantee you that every single solitary person reading this board understands the traditonal Christian view of homosexuality. 

  

The argument that these people need to be ministered to fails when realizing that the odds of ANYONE on this board not knowing about these traditional views is slim to none.  With my bet that the odds fall on the NONE part. 

  

Everyone already knows so there is no more need to "minister".  

  

  

  

  

 

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June 9, 2006, 6:29 am PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: pjparker

As I read this message I was asking the Lord to give me the words to say that would reflect a true Christian view of this whole subject and I see you beat me to it!  You nailed the Christian attitude toward homosexuals.  It saddens me that "Bible Thumpers" has become the catch phrase for those of us that have read and will continue to read on a daily basis, the Holy Bible.    

   

The Holy Bible is the key to all the answers to all the questions of all mankind for all time, and people just let it lay on their coffee tables when the preacher comes by, otherwise, it just lays there collecting dust.  A Christian lives the Word, not just reads it. And as she said, Jesus is our model. If we do nothing but read those first chapters of the New Testament, our lives would never be the same.    

   

God designed us with a hole in our hearts.  He left that hole open to see what we would fill it with.  Until we discover that Jesus Christ is the only thing that will truly fit into that hole, we wander aimlessly from creature comfort to creature comfort.  Unless you are half sharp enough to get it, so many people miss the simple message of our Christ.  He spoke in simple parables that only the humble in heart can understand and preceive as a life style.  And the free will you mention, that is we have a free will to accept Heaven, or Hell.  There is no other choice.  

   

I've been praying for people like you. People who have missed the simple Gospel message and haven't drank of the "new wine" the Bible mentions.  It's out there people and it's growing!! You have to get into a little neighborhood church where the King James Bible is still preached by a true man of God. That means working in the church, making it run.  Women keeping their mouths closed on gossip and backbiting.  People who tithe to the Lord and live Godly lives, free of alcohol abuse, homes where family devotions are still practiced.  Daddy's who come home after work, Mom's who still run the home, kids who have been taught manners and respect and have a true man and woman of God, as role models. In modern times, Moms who are willing to die for their young. Daddys who stay plugged in, no matter what.  

   

Can Dr. Phil fix America?  He's sure doing a better job than the churches folks, wonder why that is? But that is a whole other subject....  

I've been praying for people like you. People who have missed the simple Gospel message and haven't drank of the "new wine" the Bible mentions.  

  

What an arrogant assumption!  That is the problem with the "evangelical" spirit.  It is a mask for spiritual pride. 

  

I read the bible daily too.  But I don't read it so I can tell everyone what a good Christian I am or to seek out how my neighbours are sinning, but to clarify my own thoughts and guide my own behaviour. Even though I have a very good knowledge of the bible, I have never used that knowledge to attack others nor to justify prejudice against any group.  Jesus did not set us up as little "gods" to judge our neighbours...in fact, he said "judge not lest you be judged". 

  

Women keeping their mouths closed on gossip and backbiting.   Daddy's who come home after work, Mom's who still run the home. 

Ahhh yess, that would be utopia wouldn't it?  Women who know their place -who only speak when spoken to.  The kind of woman you never have to think about again once you marry her and install her in your house like a new stove /sarcasm off 

 

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June 9, 2006, 6:42 am PDT

06/06 "I'm Gay, OK?"

Quote From: xoxo06

I think I see where you are trying to come from. 

  

I, personally, disagree with homosexuality (you probably could already tell). I can only speak for myself here regarding your post. What I was trying to say is that homosexuality is wrong in any shape or form.  

  

Marriage does not in any way make homosexuality right or not as bad as it would be if a couple were not married. Homosexuality is a sin, and will remain a sin whether one is married or not. You are looking at the marriage part, but that is not the complete picture.  

I, personally, disagree with homosexuality  

  

You are not homosexual so you have no business judging that conduct.  God did not ask you to use his word to attack your neighbours. Your "job" is not to sit as a mini-god pronouncing judgments on the lives of others-I'm sure you have more than enough sins of your own to keep you busy.   

  

Your job is to let the love of Jesus shine from you onto your fellow man-if you want to help others to find Jesus, be a beacon not a scourge. 

 
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June 9, 2006, 6:45 am PDT

Now I get it

Quote From: jayde287

Yet another time I was misunderstood! I have never been raped. I haven't suffered atrocities at the hands of men. I was simply stating that to force me to have sex with someone I am not in the least bit attracted to, just because your "book" says I have to, is the equivilant of rape. I don't want to be with a man, so why should I have to learn to "deal with it" as most people on this board are telling lesbians and gay men to do?  

Thanks for the clarification, I misunderstood your other post - sorry :)
 
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