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Topic : 12/27 Extreme Parenting

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Created on : Thursday, October 20, 2005, 02:56:10 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Airdate: 10/27/05) Parents want the best life for their kids and often go to great lengths to make that happen.But what happens when they get so demanding, they end up hurting the children they love? Michael says his wife, Anna, is so consumed by her dream of having their 7-year-old son become a cheerleader that it’s taking over their lives. Will Anna put her son's pompoms to rest? Then, a father hides a tracking device in his son’s car and gets more than he bargained for! Plus, Nathan and Julie’s marriage is on the rocks because they disagree over his military style discipline of her 12-year-old daughter. Is Nathan’s drill sergeant parenting done out of love or for another reason? Join the discussion.

 

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October 27, 2005, 4:29 am CDT

My opinion

Quote From: wildtxrose

 I think that we as parents can go to the extreme  in a lot of ways....to strict, to leiniant, to aggressive, to passive, etc. etc. Sure wish we had an instruction booklet ! LOL. The bible is a great one but parents need to work together and stick together on all decisions.   

As far as the cheerleader...hmmm... I think that may be a bit extreme on moms case . I'm not saying it shouldn't be encouraged but come on, let the boy decide on something like that. Can you imagine the ridicule at such a young  and influencial age?  

As far as the hidden camera in the car...well dad what were you expecting? You must of suspected something or you wouldn't of secretly put it in the car. 

I am far from perfect though. My 10 and 13 year old step children  would refuse to to go to church with us and their mother expected us to RESPECT THEIR OPINION. While we do let them express their opinions,we just don't think they are old enough to tell us what they are going to do and not do. We compromised with them as far as telling them that they could sleep,draw,stare at their feet,etc while at church but their bodies would be there with us when they where at our house. The battle between them and their mother expecting us to allow them to do what ever they wanted and us to "respect them and their impericial beliefs" turned into a sad situation. We told the children they had to respect us,our rules and obey (of course we would compromise some things) or they could not come stay with us until they did. BTW, that was their dads decision and I stand by him. Long story short, we have not seen them in over a year now. We miss them and long to be with them and our 7 year old cries and wants them here but we alsofeel like we are doing the right thing and will not have two children at that age telling us what they will and will not do. WHAT DO YOU THINK? 

On the whole church issue... 

  

I think its very sad that you have a little one crying for the missing siblings!  :(   Personally, I wouldnt let anything like that come between myself and my children.  Sorta seems, by the way you are describing it, that its a matter of "being right" for you all.  While you can stand your ground and have the knowledge that you are "right" it still doesent allow those children to be parts of your lives.  And in actuality, what it is probably doing, is just turning them away from the whole church idea even more.  After a year of seperation, they probably feel incredibly slighted, ignored, disrespected, and as if you and your husbands religion is more important then they are.  If you think about it, wouldnt the best way to teach them your beliefs be to show them by actions that you love and care for them and desire them to be with you?   I would think if you continued to stand your ground on this issue, you would only be doing the exact opposite of your intentions.  That you would in fact be pushing them farther and farther away from any of your beliefs!   

  

So I would say give up the whole right and wrong thing and bring those children back into your lives.  All of those three children are suffering because your husband wants to be right instead of having happy children.  I think thats a good example of "extreme parenting" and find it very very sad!  :( 

  

Hope you find some peace and resolve this situation!  Good luck! 

 
October 27, 2005, 6:47 am CDT

10/27 Extreme Parenting

Quote From: momisme2

On the whole church issue... 

  

I think its very sad that you have a little one crying for the missing siblings!  :(   Personally, I wouldnt let anything like that come between myself and my children.  Sorta seems, by the way you are describing it, that its a matter of "being right" for you all.  While you can stand your ground and have the knowledge that you are "right" it still doesent allow those children to be parts of your lives.  And in actuality, what it is probably doing, is just turning them away from the whole church idea even more.  After a year of seperation, they probably feel incredibly slighted, ignored, disrespected, and as if you and your husbands religion is more important then they are.  If you think about it, wouldnt the best way to teach them your beliefs be to show them by actions that you love and care for them and desire them to be with you?   I would think if you continued to stand your ground on this issue, you would only be doing the exact opposite of your intentions.  That you would in fact be pushing them farther and farther away from any of your beliefs!   

  

So I would say give up the whole right and wrong thing and bring those children back into your lives.  All of those three children are suffering because your husband wants to be right instead of having happy children.  I think thats a good example of "extreme parenting" and find it very very sad!  :( 

  

Hope you find some peace and resolve this situation!  Good luck! 

It's all a  bit deeper than just church/religion. However, both children go to or have gone to church with their mother and grandmother (my husbands mom). They have had no problem with "church". It's just been our church. We believe in raising our hands and praising God and they don't. Don't get me wrong...there is no screaming and running down the isles . Their grandmother comes and visits our church and loves it. Their mother, in her thinking, encourages the children  that what we do at our church is wrong. She has told them that we are a cult,etc. She can believe what she wants but we do not force the children to raise their hands or anything. We just expect them to be at church with us when they are at our house. Besides that,if we did let them stay home, their mother would call CPS on us as she has done before. A lot of the problem has to do with a very angry and vingful mother of the children.
 
October 27, 2005, 7:12 am CDT

10/27 Extreme Parenting

Quote From: julie42

  

  

Extreme Parenting: 

My story is the one featured on the Oct 27 show, and my daughter and I are still living apart from my husband.   Doing the show was enlightening, and I have since read Dr. Phil's book Family First.   

I wished we could work it out, but the show did not cover all of the issues our family has faced, there just wasn't time.   

One point that did not come up is that my husband "talks" to me in the same way he was to my daughter, and he claims that I have an unbalanced "filter system" emotionally which makes me perceive his aggressive approach to dealing with every aspect of our lives in an exaggerated sense.  I just didn't really know, to be honest.  All I knew for sure is that I was constantly walking on eggshells, afraid to make him angry over anything, afraid I'd say something wrong unknowingly and make him angry.   

Oh, believe me, I don't think that everything wrong in our relationship is entirely his fault.  I also know how important discipline, and consistency are for a child.  I admit that I have been more passive in my approach to dealing with my daughter - perhaps, over-compensative for the stress of dealing with his anger.  And I know that it only creates more confusion in a child's mind.  I think Dr. Phil is right on, parents need to be a TEAM, and focus on the needs of a child together, believing in the approach to discipline in the same manner and backing each other up.   When a child knows what to expect then it seems much less likely to be a matter of contention, and, a child would be less likely to "play off" one parent on the other- which I am sure we all can relate to one way or another!!     

I was confused and uncertain about what was going on for so long.  When you live with someone who seems to be angry all the time, who tends to focus on all your negative points, constantly corrects you, constantly criticizes you and belittles you, then says it is all in humor and to get over being so sensitive...well, I had to wonder, IS it me?  AM I the problem here?   

I wonder if there is anyone else out there who struggles with this kind of situation.  All that matters to me is that my daughter has a happy stable home, and knows that she is loved, knows that she is safe and protected, and that she can depend on her parent(s)!  No one is perfect, for sure, and I don't ever want to be perceived as the "victim" in a perpetual way, we all have the capacity to manage our lives, basically.  Part of what motivated me is the realization that I have in many ways, lost my "Self"; and as Dr. Phil says, we must keep and protect this personal identity within.  We must do this in order to survive emotionally, and certainly we must take care of our selves so that we can take care of our children, and our relationships.   

So, I hope that perhaps my story can inspire someone who may be in doubt about what is right, as I have been.  I know that my husband cares about us both, in his way, and that he believes he is right.   I absolutely respect him as a veteran and for his service to this country in the military.  He often compares himself to the character in the movie "The Great Santini" about a marine corps sergeant...if any of you out there have watched that movie then you have a good notion of how my husband is.  I also admit it took a great deal of courage for him to do this show, so...we take it one day at a time, and I am devoted to rebuilding my life, and that of my daughter. 

Wish us luck.  My thanks to Dr. Phil and the producers of the show. 

Julie42 

Dear Julie: 

  

I haven't even seen the show yet and my heart is breaking for you and your daughter. I think you are very courageous to have separated from your husband, knowing how hard that had to be. Having read your post, knowing that he is also talking to YOU as he does your daughter, I can see even more that you were wise to step away. 

  

My father was in the military in the years before I was born. He was not as tough on us as your husband is on your daughter. I never faced the wall. However, he had a problem with anger. When he got mad, he yelled and did on occasion get in my face. There were many times I, too, walked on eggshells around him. My sister would yell back at him. But Mom and I were too scared.  

  

To this day, if my husband yells at himself (he never yells at me) for doing something boneheaded, I flinch and flash back to those days. At times, I have difficulty expressing my feelings to him because I'm afraid my husband will get mad (again, he never has) and yell at me. So the memories do have power. 

  

I loved my father very much. He died a terrible, slow death from a terminal illness. After I grew up and left home, he began to let go and we eventually made peace. But it took a few years in therapy for me to sort it all out and to realize I could be confident in myself, that being yelled at was not normal. 

  

I say all this to tell you that while discipline is important, love is, too. Your daughter needs to know that she is loved unconditionally, even if she messes up. I never had that. And your husband is conveying a totally opposite message. He's telling her he'll love and accept her IF she does certain things. That is a terrible way to grow up. Believe me, I lived it. You don't want her to have to go through that. YOU don't deserve to be talked to in that manner, either. You deserve unconditional love, too. Your "self" is too important to lose. Don't let him take that from you. 

  

Believe me, I am not an advocate of divorce. I hope you are all able to work this out and to make the necessary changes. But if not, don't let it go on. You and your daughter are worth more than that. 

  

  

 
October 27, 2005, 7:34 am CDT

Right on Dad!

       I Only wish we had devices like carchips 20 years ago.  Being a single Mom, I had a tendency to be very adamant on the safety of my children.  I would always drive my son and his friends where ever they wanted to go and I would take my son to pick up his girlfriend and take them home.  One particular night his friend wanted to drive him and his girlfriend the 45 miles to her house, my answer was no.  I had seen this young man drive before and it was a very scary sight.  My son was a little put out with me, but did not argue.  On our way over his friend and passengers were following us.  During the ride this young man preceded to drive at a high rate of speed, passing us on a double line, on a blind corner, blowing his horn, waving, yelling (at night) and just barely making it back in our lane with an oncoming car in the other lane.  We reached our destination my son asked to ride back with the other friends.  My answer was yes and you are now saying she has lost her mind.  Not so.  I told my son that his friend was to stop a short distance down the road for a small chat.  (I will not embarrass anyone including a young person in front of others).  When they stopped, I took the young man aside and asked him if he really thought his driving warranted my allowing my son to ride with him?  He would be risking my son's life as well as his own and the lives of others with his recklessness.  I was entrusting a precious life to his care and I expected him to respect that trust.  I then did let my son go with him and later learned that that little chat caused them to drive 45 mph all the way home and anytime he was in the car with them after that.  My son has also always been a very careful driver since the age of 16. 

  

     It's worth being strict and inventive for their safety.  Keep up the good work. 

 
October 27, 2005, 7:42 am CDT

Extreme Parenting

Dear Julie42 - I too know how confusing it is to be told you are too sensitive, and to be walking on egg shells because of someones anger, etc., but I just feel a person who treats others that way is a bully and bullying can lead to other forms of abuse also.  I have found it very  hard to find men who have good enough self esteem to be kind and loving, especially with someone elses children!  (though I continue to believe & hope someone crosses my path!) I'm sure he has lots of good qualities, but I agree with Dr. Phil, it takes a LOT of kind and loving words and actions to make up for hurtful things said to you. Those things can truly change who you are at a deep level. I think you were right to step back and get some space - it may take some length of time, if you and your daughter are willing, to see if there are significant changes in your husband's behavior.  There are lots of good books on verbal and emotional abuse, read, read, read and educate yourself and your daughter. I really think life can be happier! best of luck to you.  
 
October 27, 2005, 8:04 am CDT

You Go Dad

  You go dad....yes you did get more then you bargined for..you learned what was going on before you had to visit the city mourge....and we are not our kids friends they have plenty of them...they need parents....I to made decisions for my 2 kids...oh yeah they were mad about it...but they survived to get married and start their own familys.....they still tell me I am a cross between Dr. Phil and Judge Judy. 

  

If more parents had the mind set you have...Dr. Phil would be out of business...(sorry Dr. Phil). Parents give way to much STUFF and not enough time to kids now days. 

  

The only thing I would do different then you was ......TAKE THE KEYS.. 

 
October 27, 2005, 8:05 am CDT

PLEASE HEAR ME

Quote From: atlswan

Dear Julie: 

  

I haven't even seen the show yet and my heart is breaking for you and your daughter. I think you are very courageous to have separated from your husband, knowing how hard that had to be. Having read your post, knowing that he is also talking to YOU as he does your daughter, I can see even more that you were wise to step away. 

  

My father was in the military in the years before I was born. He was not as tough on us as your husband is on your daughter. I never faced the wall. However, he had a problem with anger. When he got mad, he yelled and did on occasion get in my face. There were many times I, too, walked on eggshells around him. My sister would yell back at him. But Mom and I were too scared.  

  

To this day, if my husband yells at himself (he never yells at me) for doing something boneheaded, I flinch and flash back to those days. At times, I have difficulty expressing my feelings to him because I'm afraid my husband will get mad (again, he never has) and yell at me. So the memories do have power. 

  

I loved my father very much. He died a terrible, slow death from a terminal illness. After I grew up and left home, he began to let go and we eventually made peace. But it took a few years in therapy for me to sort it all out and to realize I could be confident in myself, that being yelled at was not normal. 

  

I say all this to tell you that while discipline is important, love is, too. Your daughter needs to know that she is loved unconditionally, even if she messes up. I never had that. And your husband is conveying a totally opposite message. He's telling her he'll love and accept her IF she does certain things. That is a terrible way to grow up. Believe me, I lived it. You don't want her to have to go through that. YOU don't deserve to be talked to in that manner, either. You deserve unconditional love, too. Your "self" is too important to lose. Don't let him take that from you. 

  

Believe me, I am not an advocate of divorce. I hope you are all able to work this out and to make the necessary changes. But if not, don't let it go on. You and your daughter are worth more than that. 

  

  

 
October 27, 2005, 8:21 am CDT

Good job!

Quote From: karrie

       I Only wish we had devices like carchips 20 years ago.  Being a single Mom, I had a tendency to be very adamant on the safety of my children.  I would always drive my son and his friends where ever they wanted to go and I would take my son to pick up his girlfriend and take them home.  One particular night his friend wanted to drive him and his girlfriend the 45 miles to her house, my answer was no.  I had seen this young man drive before and it was a very scary sight.  My son was a little put out with me, but did not argue.  On our way over his friend and passengers were following us.  During the ride this young man preceded to drive at a high rate of speed, passing us on a double line, on a blind corner, blowing his horn, waving, yelling (at night) and just barely making it back in our lane with an oncoming car in the other lane.  We reached our destination my son asked to ride back with the other friends.  My answer was yes and you are now saying she has lost her mind.  Not so.  I told my son that his friend was to stop a short distance down the road for a small chat.  (I will not embarrass anyone including a young person in front of others).  When they stopped, I took the young man aside and asked him if he really thought his driving warranted my allowing my son to ride with him?  He would be risking my son's life as well as his own and the lives of others with his recklessness.  I was entrusting a precious life to his care and I expected him to respect that trust.  I then did let my son go with him and later learned that that little chat caused them to drive 45 mph all the way home and anytime he was in the car with them after that.  My son has also always been a very careful driver since the age of 16. 

  

     It's worth being strict and inventive for their safety.  Keep up the good work. 

I think you had every right to be concerned about your son. I was in shock reading your post about how his friend drove so recklessly...especially when he knew you were watching! I applaude you for stepping up and laying down the law. 

  

I guess what really blew my mind was the friend's response about how driving 100 mph was "nothing" and that "if it's your time to go, it's your time." OH MY GOSH! Did he really believe that or was he trying to act cool for the camera? Surely he doesn't want his parents to attend his funeral so early in his life. Geez... 

  

I guess I shouldn't be surprised since young people for decades have thought they were going to live forever and nothing could hurt them. Heck, I felt that way myself to a point. It's one thing to drive like a freak but as Dr. Phil pointed out, it is usually other innocent drivers that pay the price for this. Also, it's been proven time and again that the teenage brain does not have the matuirty of a driver in their 20s. Their judgement isn't quite there yet. That's why I think teenage driving should be fairly limited, especially at night. My niece started driving this year and she sticks close to home. 

  

  

 
October 27, 2005, 8:22 am CDT

10/27 Extreme Parenting

Quote From: atlswan

Dear Julie: 

  

I haven't even seen the show yet and my heart is breaking for you and your daughter. I think you are very courageous to have separated from your husband, knowing how hard that had to be. Having read your post, knowing that he is also talking to YOU as he does your daughter, I can see even more that you were wise to step away. 

  

My father was in the military in the years before I was born. He was not as tough on us as your husband is on your daughter. I never faced the wall. However, he had a problem with anger. When he got mad, he yelled and did on occasion get in my face. There were many times I, too, walked on eggshells around him. My sister would yell back at him. But Mom and I were too scared.  

  

To this day, if my husband yells at himself (he never yells at me) for doing something boneheaded, I flinch and flash back to those days. At times, I have difficulty expressing my feelings to him because I'm afraid my husband will get mad (again, he never has) and yell at me. So the memories do have power. 

  

I loved my father very much. He died a terrible, slow death from a terminal illness. After I grew up and left home, he began to let go and we eventually made peace. But it took a few years in therapy for me to sort it all out and to realize I could be confident in myself, that being yelled at was not normal. 

  

I say all this to tell you that while discipline is important, love is, too. Your daughter needs to know that she is loved unconditionally, even if she messes up. I never had that. And your husband is conveying a totally opposite message. He's telling her he'll love and accept her IF she does certain things. That is a terrible way to grow up. Believe me, I lived it. You don't want her to have to go through that. YOU don't deserve to be talked to in that manner, either. You deserve unconditional love, too. Your "self" is too important to lose. Don't let him take that from you. 

  

Believe me, I am not an advocate of divorce. I hope you are all able to work this out and to make the necessary changes. But if not, don't let it go on. You and your daughter are worth more than that. 

  

  

PLEASE HEAR WHAT I AM SAYING!!!!!!!!!   I am a 55 year old woman who will never be able to get the echos of my father's degrading and dictatorial voice Out of my head.  My daughter is now 22 and she is in college and is ok, but i repeated my dad's verbal and physical assaults with her for too long.  One time is too much.  I spent 20 YEARS fullfilling my fathers prophecy of me being a stupid whore.  A person who will never amount to anything.  A drug and alcohol abuser.  So many men that i can never count the number-------all just trying to find someone who would love ME just the way i am.  My husbands were my father.  I married my father trying to FIX the relationship.  Oh, I am ok now...but i am crippled with my past creeping up and going "BOO!" from time to time.  A visual or audio memory.    So, what i am say is this -- Your daughter is more precious than a marriage that is abusive.  VERBAL ABUSE is almost worse that the physical abuse.  Get a time frame, if he doesnt adjust or show promising moves forward LEAVE LEAVE LEAVE do not look back!!!  She will already have some residual scars from what has been happening, but there is still hope for her.  PLEASE DONT LET HER BE HURT ANYMORE!!!
 
October 27, 2005, 8:25 am CDT

Teen on todays show that drives 104 mph

I watch the show everyday and this is the first time I have been so angry that I had to post a message. What was Dr. Phil thinking or should I say not thinking! I just knew that he was going to tell the father to TAKE THE KEYS AWAY!!! I guess now when he crashes and kills himself, his friends and maybe another whole family that just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time atleast he will have the "chip" in the car so the police and his father will know how fast he was going! Do parents think it is NOT their responsibility to keep innocent drivers from getting killed by teens who are irresponsible wreckless drivers? The sad part is that he does not even think there is anything wrong with driving at excessive speeds! I have four children from ages 18 to 8 and I would take those keys away so fast their heads would spin if I even thought one of them was driving in an irresponsible manner. I did not even hear any mention of a punishment that was handed out after the discovery of how he is driving. Let us not forget that driving is a priviledge not a right!! I wonder if the father realizes that it will be himself that is sued for alot of money when his son who is driving his car kills someone!!  I do not know where they live but I hope it is not anywhere near me and my family! 

 
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