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Topic : 12/27 Extreme Parenting

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Created on : Thursday, October 20, 2005, 02:56:10 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Airdate: 10/27/05) Parents want the best life for their kids and often go to great lengths to make that happen.But what happens when they get so demanding, they end up hurting the children they love? Michael says his wife, Anna, is so consumed by her dream of having their 7-year-old son become a cheerleader that it’s taking over their lives. Will Anna put her son's pompoms to rest? Then, a father hides a tracking device in his son’s car and gets more than he bargained for! Plus, Nathan and Julie’s marriage is on the rocks because they disagree over his military style discipline of her 12-year-old daughter. Is Nathan’s drill sergeant parenting done out of love or for another reason? Join the discussion.

 

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October 28, 2005, 1:13 pm PDT

Just Plain Mean

Quote From: julie42

Your response to that comment is very astute.  If I were too lax in my manner of discipline, I would agree.  It was not discussed how I actually do discipline my daughter - and, my style is to communicate, with consistency, like my first letter said.  Everyone has limits, but I absolutely do not encourage any disrespect.  I believe in communication and discussion, where appropriate and warranted. 

The explosive reactions by my husband were immediate and seldom had "multiple warnings".  Another important note:  a military background isn't the problem here, it is about personal responsiblity.  Plain and simple!   

Thanks again! 

Julie42 

  

     My dad was Navy, and even with four children, NEVER enlisted the tactics used by your husband. He understood each of our personalities (bossy, quiet, talkative and rambunctious), and handled them accordingly. Working 12 hours a day at the local refinery, coming home to a dark house and all four children huddled together in their parents' bed, terrified of the dark (Mom liked to party with her "sisters"), Dad was as patient and nurturing as could be. The abuse didn't start until we became wards of the court and ended up in the Foster Homes from Hell. Yelling, name-calling, physical abuse--you name it, it was used to keep us in our place. I have no opinion on how you discipline your daughter, but your husband's methods are at best, bullish. It is not necessary to break a child's spirit in order to guide it. 
 
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October 28, 2005, 1:47 pm PDT

10/27 Extreme Parenting

Quote From: 5total

My son who was a starting football player is a cheerleader for a competitive cheer team. It's not with POM-POMs and Cheers. He is actually a base, the guy who throws the flyer up (the girl who is tossed in the air) and catches her, actually I have two boys on the team right now, and a daughter, I also have another son who will join when his football season is over. I am not worried about my boys THEY ARE BOYS. Let your children do what they want. As long as it's keeping them off the streets and out of trouble.They need to try new things on their own and see what they like best.  This is just my opinion so don't take it personally. 

The kid doesn't WANT to do cheers!!!  He wants to do other sports like basketball.  If the kid actually wanted to, there wouldn't be a problem, but he DOES NOT want to do it.  This mom started him when he was 1 1/2 years old.  The kid wasn't old enough to choose to do it, his mom just got him in it.  Now she is FORCING him to go out for cheers.  And here's something I don't get:  she is making him do it so he can get a scolorship?  How many cheerleaders get scholorships?  And if they do, I garentee it's not for very much.  How about pushing your kid to do well in school?  He will get so much farther!  Not only does he have the chance of getting a scholorship, but with his education, he could get a well paying job and be able to support himself and a family and take care of his parents when they are older.  I don't have a problem with boy cheerleaders, and it's not exactly feminine, but its not something too many guys do.  I know it takes lots of strength and all, but you'd build a lot more muscle and become stronger and quicker by doing an active sport.  Don't start flaming me because it's just a fact.  Cheerleading is a strength activity, not much cardiovascular endurance in it.  Most sports take strength, flexibility, AND cardiovascular strength/endurance.  It can be beneficial, don't get me wrong, but I just think that if your looking for something that will get you in shape and make you strong, there are some better things to go for.  If you like cheering, go for it!  Do something you have fun with, but this boy DOESN'T have fun with it, so quit forcing him to do it!  The dad worries about him 'turning gay,' I would worry more about him getting depression because he doesn't feel he can do what he wants to do.
 
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October 28, 2005, 2:11 pm PDT

Reply to quote!

Quote From: golden1

    Kudos to you and hugs to both you and your daughter. Now that Robyn is out of an abusive situation, her wounded spirit can't help but heal. Perhaps someday Nathan will step back into the REAL world and see that more can be accomplished with a pat on the back than with a slap in the face, so to speak. Also, I have a question: would Nathan be so rigid if Robyn was a boy and not a girl?

 

In answer to your question, I believe that it wouldn't matter if Robyn were a boy.  Nathan has two grown sons and I have an adult son, (he's twenty six).  He had the same approach with them and he has also been very critical of my son.   

 

 
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October 28, 2005, 4:13 pm PDT

Mr. Disciplinarian

To the marine corp dad: lay off your stepdaughter unless you want her to HATE you for the rest of her life and yours. She is not one of your recruits. Do not bully her or talk to her like she is a piece of crap. I applaud the mother for leaving and getting that girl out of the situation.
 
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October 28, 2005, 4:17 pm PDT

Pom Pom boy

Quote From: kissmyace

The kid doesn't WANT to do cheers!!!  He wants to do other sports like basketball.  If the kid actually wanted to, there wouldn't be a problem, but he DOES NOT want to do it.  This mom started him when he was 1 1/2 years old.  The kid wasn't old enough to choose to do it, his mom just got him in it.  Now she is FORCING him to go out for cheers.  And here's something I don't get:  she is making him do it so he can get a scolorship?  How many cheerleaders get scholorships?  And if they do, I garentee it's not for very much.  How about pushing your kid to do well in school?  He will get so much farther!  Not only does he have the chance of getting a scholorship, but with his education, he could get a well paying job and be able to support himself and a family and take care of his parents when they are older.  I don't have a problem with boy cheerleaders, and it's not exactly feminine, but its not something too many guys do.  I know it takes lots of strength and all, but you'd build a lot more muscle and become stronger and quicker by doing an active sport.  Don't start flaming me because it's just a fact.  Cheerleading is a strength activity, not much cardiovascular endurance in it.  Most sports take strength, flexibility, AND cardiovascular strength/endurance.  It can be beneficial, don't get me wrong, but I just think that if your looking for something that will get you in shape and make you strong, there are some better things to go for.  If you like cheering, go for it!  Do something you have fun with, but this boy DOESN'T have fun with it, so quit forcing him to do it!  The dad worries about him 'turning gay,' I would worry more about him getting depression because he doesn't feel he can do what he wants to do.
The mother has to listen to her son. He doesn't want to do it anymore. The other kids make fun of him and he is not happy. Let him do something he likes. Let him take a break. If he wants to go back to cheerleading, it should be his decision, not yours. 
 

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October 28, 2005, 4:18 pm PDT

agree and disagree

Quote From: janlascko

is not coming from the stepfather...it is coming from the mother who is too lazy and weak to discipline her own child! The mother wants to be the "hero", therefore, putting the burden of discipline on the stepdad. Furthermore, at the age of 12, that child should be doing her chores when she's told to do them. My kids were doing their own laundry at age 9-10, not because I was a tough 'bitch' of a mom, but I explained that if everyone helped with the chores around the house, we had more time for good times (parks, etc). Remember, that it took the step dad several tries to get the kid to do what was asked of her, and frankly having dirty dishes in her bedroom is so disgusting, no wonder he got mad! That is VILE and REPULSIVE and if he's paying the bills there, he shouldn't have to live in squalor with a spoiled brat

I have to agree and disagree with you here....I agree that the child, at twelve (almost thirteen), SHOULD be doing her chores without having to be told a million times to do it. However, dirty dishes in her room (or anything like that) is no excuse to treat her in the way that he did. That was down right emotional abuse. Especially that he told her that she would grow up to be a whore.  

  

But you said that your children did their chores....."NOT BECAUSE [YOU WERE] A TOUGH 'BITCH' OF A MOM, BUT [YOU] EXPLAINED THAT IF EVERYONE HELPED WITH THE CHORES AROUND THE HOUSE, [YOU] HAD MORE TIME FOR GOOD TIMES" My point exactly. If the step dad would encourage his daughter in a much more loving and caring way, and explain to her the importance of cleanliness, he'd have the same results. If his step-daughter would do her chores, not because her dad yells at her if she doesn't, but because she knows her responsibilities, they'd be better off. 

  

Also, I don't think that just because you are making the money in the household, doesn't give you the right to treat you family the way he was. That right comes with your responsibility as a parent. When you are a loving parent, and you show it, you'll get that respect voluntarily from your kids. Doesn't mean you don't discipline--don't get me wrong. In fact, I think that's what shows you love for them more. 

  

Also, I'd like to say that I think her mother has most of the fault here--her daughter should have already been doing all those things. She should have been more strict with her daughter. Do I think the girl was a "spoiled brat"? Yes--in a way. She ran to her mother whenever she didn't get her way, and her mother would intervene.  

  

I thought the whole contract thing was the stupidest thing I've ever seen! I don't know what therapist recommended that! Parenthood shouldn't be a contract between you and your kids. 

 

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October 28, 2005, 4:31 pm PDT

he apparently does not want to

Quote From: artemis21

For many sports and other activities that very young kids are in, it calls for a lot of practice and discipline. Like when I was 6 years old, I had to practice the piano for at least an hour, often two. Parents put their kids in actitivies, like music, or sports that require a lot of time. Are people still hung up on the whole gender issue? It's not like a boy is going to be wearing a skirt and pom poms. Even George W. Bush was a cheerleader in college. Would people be freaking out as much if she had her son in something that was considered more "manish" like hockey or football? 

  

I think she sounds like an excellenent mother. Is she going to far? Thatis a possibility but it isnt anything like child abuse. As the boy gets older he will have more of an independent will to either persue cheer harder or develop other interensts. It's not like he will be 7 years old forever. 

  

I have had a lot of friends growing up, male and female, who were involved in acitivies such as piano, swimming, ballet, acting, viola, hockey, gymnastics, that involved hours of our time a day when we were children. Some of us stayed with the activities throughout adolescents and beyond, others of us did not and moved on to other interests. None of us hate our parents for it or grew up to be psychopaths. Even for those of us who didn't stay with our activities religiously (like I moved on from the structured form of classical piano and moved on to jazz and rag time when I was 12. I also picked up the guitar at that time.) it did teach us discipline and dedication that is necessary in college to study or out in the real world. It definatly did more good and very little harm.  

Obviously, the boy does not want to be in that sport anymore. He fusses whenever he has to go. He wrote "my mom makes me take cheer" on his school paper. He tells his dad he does not want to do it anymore. I'm not saying his mom is a bad mom, but what other evidence does she need that tells her that her son does not want to do that anymore? She's not letting him "move on to other interests". She's forcing him to do something he really doesn't to do. 

 

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October 28, 2005, 4:42 pm PDT

agree

Quote From: kissmyace

The kid doesn't WANT to do cheers!!!  He wants to do other sports like basketball.  If the kid actually wanted to, there wouldn't be a problem, but he DOES NOT want to do it.  This mom started him when he was 1 1/2 years old.  The kid wasn't old enough to choose to do it, his mom just got him in it.  Now she is FORCING him to go out for cheers.  And here's something I don't get:  she is making him do it so he can get a scolorship?  How many cheerleaders get scholorships?  And if they do, I garentee it's not for very much.  How about pushing your kid to do well in school?  He will get so much farther!  Not only does he have the chance of getting a scholorship, but with his education, he could get a well paying job and be able to support himself and a family and take care of his parents when they are older.  I don't have a problem with boy cheerleaders, and it's not exactly feminine, but its not something too many guys do.  I know it takes lots of strength and all, but you'd build a lot more muscle and become stronger and quicker by doing an active sport.  Don't start flaming me because it's just a fact.  Cheerleading is a strength activity, not much cardiovascular endurance in it.  Most sports take strength, flexibility, AND cardiovascular strength/endurance.  It can be beneficial, don't get me wrong, but I just think that if your looking for something that will get you in shape and make you strong, there are some better things to go for.  If you like cheering, go for it!  Do something you have fun with, but this boy DOESN'T have fun with it, so quit forcing him to do it!  The dad worries about him 'turning gay,' I would worry more about him getting depression because he doesn't feel he can do what he wants to do.

I absolutely agree! Why would the mom want to get him a scholarship with cheerleading? They said that they spend $5,000-$8,000 on cheerleading a year. Why don't they put that towards his college fund? 

  

In my opinion, the scholarship has nothing to do with it. It's just any excuse to make him do something she wants him to do. 

 
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flirtatious
October 28, 2005, 10:35 pm PDT

You ask, "Why?"

Why are people comming down so hard on the "Cheerleading Mom?" 

  

  

Sexism. 

  

  

Simple as that.  There is nothing to indicate that she ever wanted to become, or was ever denied the opportunity to become a cheerleader.  There is nothing to indicate that she is re-living her life through her children. 

 
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October 29, 2005, 9:09 am PDT

30/70

Quote From: idealw8

Why are people comming down so hard on the "Cheerleading Mom?" 

  

  

Sexism. 

  

  

Simple as that.  There is nothing to indicate that she ever wanted to become, or was ever denied the opportunity to become a cheerleader.  There is nothing to indicate that she is re-living her life through her children. 

That's how I figure the # of posts with sexism vs forced involvement re: the Cheerleading mom. 

He probably would have a better chance at a scholarship in Cheer vs the more traditional "guy" sports but spending 5k to 8k a year to gain a scholarship worth aprx. 3k is more than a little silly plus the fact the kid doesn't want to do it anymore. 

  

He does need to finish the season, its a team sport and he's already made the commitment to his teammates. End of season is the time to re-evaluate his participation. 

  

To the sports parents some interesting #'s from MAHA: 

  

  "Why Kids QUIT Playing. S.T.A.R. IT'S ALL ABOUT KIDS   

Over 30 million kids age four to 14 are involved in organized sports in the United States.  Many of these kids are involved in low-pressure programs that don't discriminate by skill level, with the sole emphasis on fun.  However, according to research by the Institute for the Study of Youth Sports of Michigan State University, and others, more and more kids are actually dropping out of organized sports.  The figure is staggering - 70% by the time they are 13 years old.  Some of the reasons given: 

OVERZEALOUS COACHES 

DEMANDING PARENTS 

TOO MUCH PRESSURE TO WIN 

EMBARRASSMENT OVER THEIR PARENTS BEHAVIOR 

It's obviously not "just a game" anymore to all these kids who are giving up on what should be one of the greatest parts of their young lives. 

 

Kids are kids... they will make mistakes.  Even more importantly, the fun for them should be in playing, not winning.  We may have forgotten that most kids just want to have a good time, improve their game, and make new friends.  It's time for change." 

http://www.maha.org/STAR/brochure.htm 

  

USA Hockey now requires all parents of players in the youth leagues to view the tape of the S.T.A.R. (Shared Tolerance, Appreciation & Respect) program and sign a behavioral contract before their kids can get on the ice for their first practice. 

  

While the S.T.A.R. program was developed to deal with the problems in youth hockey, it can be easily adapted to other sports & kids activities. Many of the guidelines and requirements are good common sense for any parent and/or player to follow so all participants can enjoy their particular sport. 

 
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