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Topic : 01/18 "Fighting Over the Will"

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Created on : Tuesday, November 22, 2005, 03:25:43 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Airdate: 11/29/05) When you imagine receiving an inheritance, you might dream that all your financial problems would be solved. But sometimes, the money is more trouble than it's worth. Eighty-four-year-old Aileen inherited a 2,000-acre farm after her husband died. But is her granddaughter, Amber, jumping the gun by wanting her mother's name on the title now? Then, Tracy says her 19-year-old son, Mark, changed when he came into a large inheritance this year after his dad passed away. She says the money wasn't what changed her son, but his long-lost friend, Brandon. Talk about the show here.

 

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November 29, 2005, 2:49 pm PST

my thoughts exactly

Quote From: judyblue22

When you put your daughter's name on title with you, you give that person a share of current ownership in the property.  That means: 

  • if she gets divorced, her spouse can make a claim to share in her interest in the land.
  • if she dies, her estate would include her interest in the land.
  • if she has creditors that she doesn't pay, they can register a lein against the land.  
  • if you want to take a loan against the land or sell it, you need her consent.
  • if you change your mind about who you wish to leave your land to, you can only change it if she is willing to sign a transfer of her interest back to you.

As you can see, this is a big step and is very risky.   There are times when it does save time and money though.  Before you take such a drastic step, please ensure that there really would be a substantial tax savings (check that with an accountant) and determine if there is a way to accomplish the savings without changing ownership of the land.   

  

If you decide to put your daughter's name on your land,  consult a lawyer about getting a trust document for your daughter to sign first that establishes that the transaction was for estate planning purposes only and is not intended to give her any rights to the land during your lifetime. The document should also include a promise from your daughter that would be binding on her estate to transfer the land back to you at any time at your request. 

You brought up some very good points.  Do any of these people know what they are doing?  I understand the concern that things are done correctly to avoid losing money to taxes but even the daughter doesn't know the right things to do.  I have been told that property needs to be put in a Trust to protect against paying inheritance tax or capitol gains tax.  Maybe this is something that differs from state to state but it should be checked out with a qualified money planner.  If the mother were to put the daughter's name as a co-owner then if the daughter got sued for some reason the land is at risk because she is part owner.  Never a wise thing to do, very risky.   

The mother and daughter need to go together to a knowledgable tax attorney/financial planner and find out the best way to protect everyone's interests.  Get a clue, daughter, you are not in control of this, your mother is.  She made need some help and support in doing the right things, but putting her on the defense is not going to be in your favor.  She just might leave it all to somebody besides you and who would blame her?  Find out if an irrevocable Trust would work for you.     

 
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November 29, 2005, 2:51 pm PST

Fighting over the Will

I rarely will feel the need or desire to respond to any show I see, however, today's show led me to something new. I watched in amazement as Amber and Davenne are trying to convince the public that they have a right to this land.  They come across (or attempted to) as being knowledgeable, throwing around words and phrases such as "Heritage tax", "Capital Gains" etc.  I am Canadian, and have worked in the financial services industry for nearly 30 years.  I have handled many estates, on behalf of my client's beneficiaries.  I am not an expert at all and would first of all urge the grandmother to seek out the advice of a Certified Financial Planner.  These people are well versed in taxes, estates etc.  She should also seek the advice (which I think she already Has) of a good estate lawyer.  There is no such thing in Canada as "Heritage Tax", however there are probate fees.  Each province is different, and since I do not live in the province of Saskatchewan I would not want to say anything incorrect.  A CFP and an estate lawyer should be able to assist the grandmother with all the proper advice she requires.  As much as the daughter thinks that if the mother makes the deed joint(yes that's what it is called-a deed) my belief (and I could be incorrect) is that the deed would have to made joint a certain number of years prior to the original deed holder's death.  You see, our government's are very smart and they know people will do almost anything to get out of paying taxes, so there is some provision. 

  

If the grandmother is concerned about the probate fees on the land, she could purchase a term life insurance policy to cover such taxes-this is what many people do to protect their families by such taxes. 

  

I am sure that what we see on TV is not the whole story and the true picture of who each person truly is inside.  However, as a viewer, I must say that Amber and Davenne came across as two very greedy, unworthy beneficiaries.  They had not done their homework and instead of spending this time fighting over what will happen, why not value the time they do have with their loved one.  

  

I also did not get the impression that either one of them wanted to keep the land to maintain the "family farm".  I'm sure the intent is to sell and reap as much as they possibly can. 

  

I think if I were grandma, I would probably consider my alternatives as to a beneficiary.  Perhaps, there is a worthy cause that would value that land for years to come.  One thing that comes to mind is the Tim Horton's Camp for Kids.  The pictures looked lovely, and Tim Horton's sends thousands of young children to camp every summer, that otherwise would not be able to go-maybe this would be a legacy that could live forever with the grandma's (and grandpa's) name.  Just a thought and there are many other organizations out there that would benefit from such a beautiful gift of nature. 

  

I think if I were Amber and Davenne I wouldn't start making a shopping list yet.  Grandma looks and seems to be a very bright and astute woman.  She can change that Will as easily again, as she changed it after her husband passed away.  And just in case you haven't realized it-she is probably still mourning his loss-after all-how many years did she share a life with him. 

  

Dr Phil; I wish you would have sought out more legal and financial planning advice for this grandmother. 

 
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November 29, 2005, 2:53 pm PST

Mark

Mark, neither your nor you mother are handling this money wisely.  I wish someone would have taught you about investing the large sum wisely and safely and spending only the interest income from the money.  Spending the principle will leave you high and dry eventually, but if it were invested then you would keep the money and still have some income.  Consult a financial planner, banker, investment broker, anyone who knows more than you do and learn how to make this money work for you. 

 
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November 29, 2005, 2:58 pm PST

Quote

Quote From: t_r_coplen

The women from Saskatchewan "fighting over the will" need to get that power of attorney.  If the mother is not comfortable with her daughter then she needs to find someone else as power of attorney.  Here in Canada if you do not have proof of power of attorney you can do absolutely nothing.  If the daughter does not have a copy of that power of attorney if the mother becomes ill or incapacitated in anyway the state will make the decisions until they can provide proof.  It is very seldom that these decision need to be made when lawyers offices are open to get a copy.  Additionally unless the mother has given them a key to her house or safety deposit box and told the daugther where her copy is it is again impossible for the daughter to prove she is the person her mom wants making decisions for her when she can't herself.   

As for the issue with joint ownership, yes it is a pain, and yes we don't have tax on income from a will but probate becomes very expensive, so unless there is a sizable amount of cahs also willed the daughter would most likely have to sell part of the ranch to pay for probate, while if there is joint ownership (I beleive there is also silent partner ownership, where the daughter couldnt' make any decisions unless the mother was to sell the property; which from the sounds of it was against the fathers wishes, although not at all legally binding) the daughter won't have to pay the probate fees and will not be taxed on the gained income unless she goes to sell the property after her mother passes away.  It sounded to me that the daughters while bitter with the mother had some serious and justified concerns about their mothers welfare and what will happen to the family ranch once she passes away that need to be addressed BEFORE the mother passes away, if the mother wants her and her husbands wishes carried out for sure. 

 I have to agree with you  on alot  of accounts. But I do want to say that I think the daughter and grandaughter are going about this the wrong way. What happened to having a sympathetic heart and a caring way about the issue? They both came off as gold diggers instead of caring understanding reletives in my opinion.
 

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November 29, 2005, 3:00 pm PST

AMEN

Quote From: barbarab

She can use his money to try to take his money away from him.  Accountability is not a common word these days.

  

 
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November 29, 2005, 3:00 pm PST

Did anyone else notice...?

Aileen mentioned that she grew up on the land.  Just as a matter of point then, it really doesn't matter so much that her husband said to put his daughter's name on the deed. The daughter and granddaughter kept focusing on that point and I'm suggesting that his wishes weren't the bottom line - he only obtained the property through marriage.
 
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November 29, 2005, 3:01 pm PST

11/29 "Fighting Over the Will"

Quote From: bzbluiii

You brought up some very good points.  Do any of these people know what they are doing?  I understand the concern that things are done correctly to avoid losing money to taxes but even the daughter doesn't know the right things to do.  I have been told that property needs to be put in a Trust to protect against paying inheritance tax or capitol gains tax.  Maybe this is something that differs from state to state but it should be checked out with a qualified money planner.  If the mother were to put the daughter's name as a co-owner then if the daughter got sued for some reason the land is at risk because she is part owner.  Never a wise thing to do, very risky.   

The mother and daughter need to go together to a knowledgable tax attorney/financial planner and find out the best way to protect everyone's interests.  Get a clue, daughter, you are not in control of this, your mother is.  She made need some help and support in doing the right things, but putting her on the defense is not going to be in your favor.  She just might leave it all to somebody besides you and who would blame her?  Find out if an irrevocable Trust would work for you.     

 This seems so lodical and you have some very good common sense.
 
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November 29, 2005, 3:01 pm PST

oops

Quote From: bzbluiii

You brought up some very good points.  Do any of these people know what they are doing?  I understand the concern that things are done correctly to avoid losing money to taxes but even the daughter doesn't know the right things to do.  I have been told that property needs to be put in a Trust to protect against paying inheritance tax or capitol gains tax.  Maybe this is something that differs from state to state but it should be checked out with a qualified money planner.  If the mother were to put the daughter's name as a co-owner then if the daughter got sued for some reason the land is at risk because she is part owner.  Never a wise thing to do, very risky.   

The mother and daughter need to go together to a knowledgable tax attorney/financial planner and find out the best way to protect everyone's interests.  Get a clue, daughter, you are not in control of this, your mother is.  She made need some help and support in doing the right things, but putting her on the defense is not going to be in your favor.  She just might leave it all to somebody besides you and who would blame her?  Find out if an irrevocable Trust would work for you.     

Typo city; that should be 'may need some help' and 'revocable trust'
 
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November 29, 2005, 3:02 pm PST

Selfish!

I was listening to the granddaughter and the daughter of this woman and that is the first word that came to my mind, along w/the mother of the boy who got his father's inheritance.  Selfishness and greed is what runs and ruins this world.  The 85yr old woman lost her husband and I'm sure the way her daughter & granddaughter are acting towards her is putting alot of stress on her. 

 
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November 29, 2005, 3:05 pm PST

what do I do?

My mom passed away two months ago and she left a trust leaving all of her monetary assets to be divided equally between the four of us children.  She made my sister the trustee because she was the only one that lived there.  The last two years she has visited my mother in the nursing home daily, picked things up at the store for her and helped out in many ways.  None of them monetary.  Before that mom lived in a house where my sister also lived and was able to get back on her feet living rent and utility free.  Mom complained that she didn't help out with the house payment, didn't clean or cook or help out.  We were glad though that someone was there to look out after her if something happened. 

As soon as the burial service was over we were brought in with a financial adviser and we went over the trust.  No lawyer was present.  My sister immediately stated that she wanted the house (valued at $45,000-$50,000).  My other two siblings said that she could have their share, they didn't want to bother with fixing it up (they are both worth over a million dollars anyway).  I said I wanted to think about it and my sister immediately blew up calling me names, said I was never there to help out, which wasn't true.  I kept saying I wanted to wait, it had been a very difficult last couple of weeks but under pressure I said ok, I would sign over my share.  Nothing was said about the car or household items and momentos.  I would assume that my sister could take the car and other things but I want pictures and momemtos and am having second thoughts about signing over my share of the house. Especially since there has been no communication as to dividing up the checking account after the hospital bill, taxes and other things are paid (there is around $50,000 in the account).  I have questions about life insurance and dividing up things and feel if I sign I will never get anything other than what was intended in the trust.  I also feel that it isn't what my mother wanted and as trustee my sister should do what mom wanted her to do.  Mom always said she wanted us not to fight and she always would always treat us fairly.  Mom had her brother as trustee until less than a year ago.  Her brother passed away and she didn't know who to have. She always said she didn't want one of us kids to be a trustee because of the danger of fighting. I don't know what to do. 

 
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