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Topic : 03/23 Nasty Custody Battles

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Created on : Friday, January 06, 2006, 01:41:19 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 01/09/06) If you’re getting a divorce, or even considering one, and you have kids, don't miss this show! Dr. Phil talks to parents who are embroiled in bitter custody battles, leaving their innocent children caught in the crossfire. Scott is tired of fighting with his ex-wife, Tiffany, over visitation of their two sons. The bickering has gotten so bad that Tiffany claims Scott spit on her during a recent encounter. Can they learn to respect each other for the sake of their kids? Plus, Angela says her ex-husband, Chris's violent past and brushes with the law have her so scared that she refuses to let him near their 7-year-old daughter. Does a man with Chris’s past deserve a second chance to be a father? Share your thoughts.

 

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January 11, 2006, 7:01 am PST

the implication is men are more dangerous.. it is not true

Quote From: suesfive

Are you familiar with the Jessica Lunsford and Carly Bruschia cases in Florida?  In my opinion a good mother warns her child of impending danger involving male or female.  Now don't you think that is reasonable?  And you have to admit that those two horrific cases DO involve men as the perpetrators and murderers. 

Yes.. just as I admit that one of the people holding Elizabeth smart was a woman,  you seem to imply that men are more dangerous than women and as far as child abuse is concerned.. women are more likley to abuse. Lets be careful on the "man bad.. woman good" stuff that is so commom here
 
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January 11, 2006, 7:25 am PST

Men or women more violent

There are many men who abuse, as well as women.  I don't care which one is more likely to abuse than the other.  If one is abusive, then they don't need to have the right to take care of them.  I am, however, tired of hearing "women should have custody....men should have custody".  How about what is best for the child.  If that is joint custody, then so be it.  But when you both love and care for your children unconditionally, what gives anyone the right to think that they are the "only" ones to help your child grow into a loving, respectful, and well adjusted adult.  It is both the parents responsibility, and no one should use the child as a pawn to "shoot down" the other parent. 

  

 
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January 11, 2006, 7:32 am PST

Children Need To Be Empowered

Quote From: jewelerboy

Yes.. just as I admit that one of the people holding Elizabeth smart was a woman,  you seem to imply that men are more dangerous than women and as far as child abuse is concerned.. women are more likley to abuse. Lets be careful on the "man bad.. woman good" stuff that is so commom here
That unfortunately sometimes the people that are supposed to love and protect them can also choose to harm them!  Empower children to identify abuse and how to protect themselves!
 
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January 11, 2006, 7:38 am PST

The bitterness is the hardest part

Quote From: abbiedeen

My husband's ex wife is so bitter toward my husband for leaving her -- and subsequently marrying me -- she says and does things to the children to intentionally hurt my husband and his relationship with his little ones. 

  

A little background:  My husband left his first wife when she was about 5 months pregnant with their youngest child.  Granted, it was probably not the best time -- but there were extenuating circumstances.  I met him shortly after he left.  She blames me for the break up of their marriage.  She says (and possible, she's right) that if he hadn't met me, they would have reconciled.  The fact remains, they married young, because she was pregnant with their oldest, everyone told him not to marry her and they had split up and gotten back together several times before.  The end of the marriage was inevitable. (Thats the short version).   That was more than 4 years ago.  In that 4 years, she has spoken to him less than a half dozen times (no exaggeration!).   She refuses to speak to him about anything, including the children, their education, time with them, etc.   

  

Recently, we movd from NC to WA.  His children are in OR.  So we are now 200 miles, door to door from them.  My husband is asking for more time.  She said she is remarried now, her new husband is the kids dad (she has even told his kids, now 8, 6 and 3, that they MUST call her husband "Daddy" and my husband "Mike" in her presence; that he is not their Daddy anymore because he left "them"), so they do not need any more time than the 30 days a year he had while living across the country.  (He is military, so that was feasible, at the time).  It's back in court and we'll find out what the judge says on the 25th. 

  

Meanwhile, his 3 year old daughter told him last Sunday "You're dumb.  I don't love you anymore.  I have a mommy and a daddy here, I don't need you!"   She then got on the phone with me and said "I don't think I should come to your house anymore!"  When I asked her why not, she said "Because you're dumb and I don't love you!"  I said, "Well, I love you, and I would like you to come to our house again."  To which she replied, "I can't!  It makes my mom mad!"  Hmmmmmm  wonder where she got that! 

  

I have tried to stay out of things with his ex and him.  I type and mail letters for him, because I have an office job and can do things that he can't, due to his job.  I also help him with his legal stuff because we can no longer afford the attorney and I was going to law school before we moved.  I don't speak to her, don't say anything bad to her or about her in front of the kids.  She has no issue with me other than that her husband married me after divorcing her.  She, on the other hand, has told the children horrible things about me, my husband, our families, etc.  

  

So.....what do you do about a biological parent who does not want to "share" the children with the other biological parent and who twists the kids up just to hurt their dad?  How do you handle a situation like this when you see your husband hurting so bad because his 6 year old hasn't gotten on the phone with him for 6 weeks now because "You're mean and  I don't want to talk to you!", and his mother won't get on the phone with his dad to try to gt to the bottom of WHY he is saying that?  What do you say to your husband when he says "I give up!  I might as well just stop calling and trying to see them!  They don't love me anymore!  They don't want me around anyway!"  Especially when you KNOW that's not true -- that they are just saying what their mother wants thm to!  What do you do??? 

  

Anyone? 

  

Erin 

I have been in that same situation for 5 years, and I know 1st hand  how hurtful the bitter ex can be.    Ladies, don't get me wrong, not all ex's are bitter, but the bitter ones really screw it up for the others.  My husband's ex may be just getting past the bitterness (I say may because she could revert back at any moment!).  I tried from day one to be friendly toward her, and tried to encourage her to do the same for the sake of the boys, and she would only ablige when she needed a favor.  Things are starting to get peaceful, but while in her bitter rage she did permanent damage to my husband's 3 sons (13,11,7) and our relationship with them.   

  

After we got married, we moved 2 miles away with the hope of coparenting, and 5 years, thousands of dollars, and lots of tears later, we have been forced to step back and watch the kids self-destruct.  It is the most painful thing I've ever experienced (and believe me, I know pain).   

  

For years, I have loved them like they were my own, and they understood that they had 3 parents who loved them.  Unfortunately, her bitterness and insecurity caused so much destruction that we were forced to go months without any contact with them.  And don't get me started on the courts...that's a waste of time, money and energy.  Watching my husband grieve for children that live 2 miles away, and no court to enforce his visitation!  By planting lies and deceit in the minds of these innocent children, any mal-intentioned ex can destroy their lives with the help of the legal system that was intended to protect them.  Tell me, how well adjusted is a child who has been convinced that his God-fearing, hard working, law abiding, loving, affectionate father is the devil because he enforces No pass, no play?   

  

We have a 2 yr old son whom they adore (and he thinks they hung the moon), and her ugliness was at its worst when I was pregnant and escalated after the baby was born.  But to God be the glory,  we have resumed contact and are trying to rebuild our relationships that she worked so hard to destroy.  My friends all told me it would get better with time, but I disagree.  It only gets better with lots of prayer,love, and patience. 

 
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January 11, 2006, 8:24 am PST

are babysitters illegal for divorcees??

Quote From: terri1961

Hello, If your ex drinks and leaves your son with someone else. Document everything  (dates) (Behavior)and get legal counsel. My ex used to threaten me also. Do yourself a favor understand you and your childs rights.

We seem to be seeing a fair amount of people faulting the father for hiring a sitter. Lets be clear, if you hired a sitter when you were married it should be okay to hire a sitter when you divorce. 

If it is YOUR week to have the kids.. and you have a job or a date and you hire a sitter you need to allow your estranged spouse to hire a sitter without " documenting everything" 

 
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January 11, 2006, 8:29 am PST

Actually, I have been there

Quote From: inbetween

I think you have No Idea what you are talking about.......Until You are a Victim of Abuse and have Felt that Fear..........And have Suffered from PTSD........Then you Can Remark on her appearance!!!!!  Her fear is based on what she has experienced with this guy........Many women would have reacted the Very Same Way........Being on TV or Not...........It Is Very Real!!!!! 

Actually, I have been there. I have suffered the abuse, anxiety/panic attacks and PTSD to name a few.  

  

I also have felt the fear for my safety (as well as that of my 16 month old son) from an estranged wife's lover. I was told  at the time, be the neighbors that he wanted me dead. I effectively dealt with the situation within the limits of the law. She could have done that too. 

  

Trust me, I know the fear and other conditions that go along with it. If she feels threatened by him, she needs to avoid him and tell it like it is rather than over dramatize the point. 

  

There are two sides to every story. 

 
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January 11, 2006, 8:33 am PST

thanks

Quote From: sammee57

I took my husband and I 4 yrs to FIND his ex, she moved 1500 miles away!  Then it took us another yr to get visits which by them HAD to be supervised because the chidlren didn't even know who he was. And they were scared of him because of things she said, domestic abuse that was NEVER substantiated in any way.   

  

False allegations get mom the kids full time and Dad broke because support is now based on time spent with the kids, at least in our state.  Equal time=no support.  More time for mom=more money. 


The x had told them that her new husband was their "real" dad. 

  

Just for everyone TRY THIS SITE-  www.deltabravo.net     or do a google search for SPARC-Shared Parenting Access Research. 

  

This site was and still is a godsend for us!!  We'd have crumbled under the pressure of the court system if not for this site and the state site they directed us to. 

  

Just try it. 

Thanks for the info I just have to get my husband to use it he doesnt like to hope because of all the problems we have encountered in the  past and he doesnt like for the kids to see all the fighting thanks again
 
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January 11, 2006, 8:44 am PST

How the Children are affected

I was unable to watch the show, but wish I had.  All the previews seem to mock my current situation with my ex and his "new" spouse.     Long story short- because I really think only a professional therapist could sort through it all - We divorced in early 2000 at which time I was given sole custody of the children and he was given very liberal visitations - 1st, 3rd, and 5th, weekend of each month, every other major holiday, 6 weeks during summer, father's day, time on each child's birthday, and every spring break.     For the first year, he showed up for visitations and paid child support.  But then he moved a state away and visitations became less frequent as well as child support.  They went from every other weekend to only major holidays, spring break, and 6 weeks during summer.  Child support began not being paid as regularly.  I will add that even though the court order says he was to reimburse me for the Medical Insurance I paid for the children as additional child support, he NEVER has reimbursed me any part of it.  He has refused to do this- even though it is court ordered. This went on for a short time- less than 1 year, when visitations changed again, only showing for summer visitation and Christmas.   There were occassional phone calls between these visits, but most phone calls were threats of bodily harm to be brought against me or my new spouse or instructions to the kids such as "Tell your mama I let you ride your bike in the street at my house, why can't she let you rider your bike in the street at her house", etc..... These things happened over a 2 year period.   Then he finds himself divorced again.. now visitations have stopped.  The last visitation he exercised was 3 years ago when he took his two young girls - ages 9 and 7 to court with him where he was facing criminal charges in another state.  Needless to say, the children were very upset when they heard a judge order him to jail.  That visitation took me a total of 10 days to locate my children and return them home.  He refused to let me know where they were at or who had them when my lawyer went to speak to him in jail.   He has not attempted visitation since that time.  The children call him when they want to talk to him, but he is no longer allowed to call our residence because of the verbal threats and I should add... phone calls at 3 in the morning telling us how much Jesus loves us and if we hang up they will call back.   Recently he remarries and has now decided to announce to the children he and his new wife will be picking them up this summer and can't wait to have them.  The children have never met his new wife, only seen some pictures of her on the internet - some of them very objectionable- and has never met any of the new step children they will be forced to live with for 6 weeks.  Their new step mother has taken to the internet in posting what she believes is my "Character Flaws" every chance she gets.  She will post lost of negative things about me and put a link from my ex and her's web page to locate such post.  Her recent post are about how I do not allow my ex to see or speak to his children.  The truth is he has not shown up in 3 years.... They are aware the children view their page, so she is in essence making sure the children know how they feel about me.  I should add, their father's post on his member id reads:  "You have to kiss alot of Ugly frogs before you will finally find your princess".   The children read this and asked if he was calling me an Ugly frog????????  How do you respond to such things.   

  

I too am concerned with a lot of things regarding my children visiting their father after such a period of absence and since the last time he had them, he placed them not in a dangerous situation, but in a situation that he had to have known would cause them considerable anguish and anxiety.   No child should be brought to court to watch their father get convicted of failing to pay child support for children he had from another marriage.  After all, the children of the other marriage are my children's half brother and half sister.  They know each other.  In addition to this, he is now subjecting them to the new "famliy" as they have put it.   The new step mother feels she has the right to speak up and dictate how things should go with my ex husband and myself.  I feel she doesn't.  I have not met this woman, only talked with her 2 times in 3 years by phone and both of those times, she resorted to calling me vial names.  She does not know me, does not know my children, and only knows what she is being told by others who were not in our household at the time of my marriage to my ex to know what was going on.  If you are wondering how they found out about the new marriage- they learned of it from the Internet!!!!  You get to see pictures of the happy couple, with the new children and the mother in law.  There is even one picture the caption reads " The Whole Family".(it's a picture of my ex,his new wife, her children, and her mother).... only problem,  our two children were never included as part of that family from the beginning and are now feeling like they were left out and are not "part of" the new family.  

  

I have told my children that if they do go this summer, they are to respect her as their step mother.  They may call her by whatever name makes them feel comfortable.  They will be expected to follow the rules of the house of their father and step mother.  The kids are interested in meeting the new step children but have reservations about their dad and step mother.  Both have stated they don't want to go for the full 6 weeks.  Both have asked if they can go to court to speak to a judge because they have friends who have told them they can speak to a judge about what they want.     

  

During the last 3 years of missed visits, the girls have became involved in activities such as Girl Scouts, baseball, chorus at school, band, and one of them has recently been accepted into a program that prepares them for College and will reward them upon graduation from high school by providing much needed money to apply toward College tuition as well as seeks other scholarship money to assist with College tuition.  The program has mandtory attendances as well as mandatory calls to their mentor weekly.  I have recently attempted to talk with their father regarding this but he has stated he is unwilling to bring her to the required attendances during his visitation period.  Before I could say anything else, he hung up on me.  I realize he does live some 1300 miels away currently, but he is also unwilling to modify his visitation schedule to accomodate her.  She is worried she will be forced out of the program by missing a required attendance of required phone call when she is with her father.   

  

I dont feel that if a parent willlingly drops out of their children's lives for a long period of time and then wants to "rejoin" those lives that the children should have to alter their lives to accomodate the parent.  Although  I feel it is important for him to be a part of their lives, I think he needs to be more of an adult and realize his children have begun a life without him due to his actions. They have found a way to fill those weekends when he didn't show up.   He should respect them and find a more productive way to reestablish his relationship with his children - slowly- than to just reintroudce them to himself and his new family.   People change over time.  Asking two pre teen kids to readjust to a parent they havn't seen in 3 years and at the same time, adjust to a new step mother, step children, and step grandmother who they have never met is asking alot of children.   

  

This has wound up being longer than I wanted... but one final note... The new step mother never spoke a word until I attempted to enforce the child support order after it was more than $20,000.00 in arrears.. and that was just basic support - that figure did not include the reimbursement of medical insurance.  Since my attempts two years ago.. she has become an avid vocalist for my ex spouse.    

 
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January 11, 2006, 8:50 am PST

01/09 Nasty Custody Battles

So here is our problem.  

  

Me and my boyfriend have been together for a year and have a very happy relationship but we have one problem. He has a child from a previous relationship and the mother denies visitation to his daughter.   

  

Let me go back. The mother and him separated soon before me and him got together. Before she knew anything about me he was allowed to come over every afternoon after he was off work to pick up alexia and spend time with her until it was bed time for her.  So he was able to freely spend time with her and be the father he wanted to be. Keep in mind they were separted at his time and that there was no pretense of them working things out.  He meet me about two months after there split. When the mother found out that he was dating someone all vistitation was abruptly taken away and the excusses started. First it was i dont trust you with our daughter.  Then it was i dont know you anymore and i dont know what environment she will be in. Now we were not thet serious then and i was in no way asking to be in that part of his life yet, So i totally understood if she did not want her daughter around me because she did not know me. I had not even met his daughter yet. Because i respected her and did not want to confuse the child bc we were not that serious. Well time persisted and we did become serious and the mother continued to deny visitation. To me it became clear that she is not fully over him.  We are engaged now and have a baby on the way and this battle has been going on for almost a year. We have offered to let her met me and to see where we live adn our life. She refuses to do that. The only vistation that she allows for the father is for him to come to her house for supervised vistation. The only problem is that they end up fighting and yelling at each other in front of their daughter or she tries to hit on him which makes him very uncomfortable. So he does not do that bc he does not want to subject his daughter to that.  Alexia is almost two and i dont feel that the mother  will ever grow up and think about what she is doing to her daughter. She has a father that wants to be more than a paycheck every month. If anyone has any comments or questions i would love for this to all work out.  

 
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January 11, 2006, 9:58 am PST

01/09 Nasty Custody Battles

Quote From: mel_kiwi

So here is our problem.  

  

Me and my boyfriend have been together for a year and have a very happy relationship but we have one problem. He has a child from a previous relationship and the mother denies visitation to his daughter.   

  

Let me go back. The mother and him separated soon before me and him got together. Before she knew anything about me he was allowed to come over every afternoon after he was off work to pick up alexia and spend time with her until it was bed time for her.  So he was able to freely spend time with her and be the father he wanted to be. Keep in mind they were separted at his time and that there was no pretense of them working things out.  He meet me about two months after there split. When the mother found out that he was dating someone all vistitation was abruptly taken away and the excusses started. First it was i dont trust you with our daughter.  Then it was i dont know you anymore and i dont know what environment she will be in. Now we were not thet serious then and i was in no way asking to be in that part of his life yet, So i totally understood if she did not want her daughter around me because she did not know me. I had not even met his daughter yet. Because i respected her and did not want to confuse the child bc we were not that serious. Well time persisted and we did become serious and the mother continued to deny visitation. To me it became clear that she is not fully over him.  We are engaged now and have a baby on the way and this battle has been going on for almost a year. We have offered to let her met me and to see where we live adn our life. She refuses to do that. The only vistation that she allows for the father is for him to come to her house for supervised vistation. The only problem is that they end up fighting and yelling at each other in front of their daughter or she tries to hit on him which makes him very uncomfortable. So he does not do that bc he does not want to subject his daughter to that.  Alexia is almost two and i dont feel that the mother  will ever grow up and think about what she is doing to her daughter. She has a father that wants to be more than a paycheck every month. If anyone has any comments or questions i would love for this to all work out.  

Your situation sounds alot like mine.  My fiance HAD custody of their 2 children and then all of a sudden, after we got together, she took an interest in her children.  It is very apparent that his ex just wanted to get back at him for a mulitude of reasons.   

She lives with her mother because she has proved that she can't live alone.  She goes out drinking and doing god knows what and leaves the kids with her mother who just had a hip replaced and can't really take good care of herself!  She doesn't drive, the kids are in the emergency room all the time.  His daughter only has Asthma when she is with her mother, his son was never sick except the occasional sniffle, then all of a sudden he is in the emergency room all the time.  His daughter has contracted scabbies on a numerous occasions (only when with mom!)  Let's talk about school attendence.  His daughter, while in the care of her hungover, drugged out mother, missed 42 days of kindergarden, 1st and 2nd grade she was with her father with no interaction with her mother, missed none, 3rd grade, in the care of her mother, already missed 21 days of school.  His son just started kindergarden this year and has missed a total of 17 days of school.   

She metally abuses them, always has an excuse why there are bruises on the kids.  His daughter told us that mom threw her into a table because she spilled sand on the floor.  This was dissmissed by the courts and he lost all visitation with his children because the courts stated that HE was mentally abusing the kids, trying to turn them against their mother.   

She is entitled to drink, party all the time, go out and leave the kids with god knows who.  She hangs out with very questionable people, this is OK.  They pressure him to get a better job when this is the first job she has ever had and doesn't plan on bettering herself, she just uses and abuses people.   

$1050.00 a month for child support and she has welfare.  She makes like $10 something an hour and gets welfare.  She lives with her mother who works full time and gets $40000.00 a year from her job, but yet, she gets welfare.   

Does anyone else see a problem with this picture?   

I think a march on all local courthouses might bring attention to this problem.  Marching on Washington will do nothing, make a stink in front of your county courthouse and maybe a few balls will get rolling! 

  

 
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