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Topic : 01/19 Follow-ups

Number of Replies: 255
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Created on : Friday, January 13, 2006, 02:25:30 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

Dr. Phil revisits some of his most amazing stories of the season. First, Tim and Anne Marie were desperate to save their mother, Sylvia, who was constantly talking to the voices in her head. After 10 weeks of treatment, see the inspirational turn Sylvia has taken. What will she say when she meets Dr. Phil face to face? Then, just over a month ago, two women told Dr. Phil how they fell victim to alleged con man and bigamist Ed Hicks. See how their story helped another woman and brought Hicks into police custody. Plus, 18-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared last May during a senior class trip to the island of Aruba. Dr. Phil is joined by Natalee’s mother, Beth, her lawyer, and a consultant to the Aruban government who defends the work of the investigators. Have there been new revelations since the last time Beth appeared on the show? Could rescuers be on the brink of finding the missing teen? Talk about the show here.

 

Find out what happened on the show.

 

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January 19, 2006, 1:12 pm CST

01/19 Follow-ups

What I want to know about the whole Aruba case is why is a tourist cosultant is allowed to unlock a jail cell and why does he have any role in the legal aspect.  If I understood correctly this guy that was on the show today with Beth is hired by the hotels and tourism industry.  So why is this man even talking to these boys or involved with questioning them.  It sounds to me like Aruba truely is a backwards place to need justice.
 
January 19, 2006, 1:13 pm CST

I AGREE WITH BOYCOTT OF ARUBA

I just finished watching the show with Natalee Holloway's mom. I am so MAD at the 'smoke and mirrors' the representative for Aruba was spouting. How utterly frustrating for Natalees' family to know that these three CRIMINALS are walking around enjoying life all along knowing EXACTLY what happened to Natalee. If a Boycott of the island of Aruba will hit the government where it feels it (the pocket book) maybe they will be forced to bring those responsible back in and finally DEMAND answers then I am all for it! I hope EVERY AMERICAN and ANYONE else that values justice avoid the island of Aruba until they give JUSTICE FOR NATALEE. And for the post I read earlier that stated 'what should Joran be charged with?? WHAT ABOUT RAPE?? He was the first to admit sex with her and that she was drunk or drugged at the time. Or the very least, obstruction of justice? All three of them were caught in more than one lie. If the Dutch can't figure out a way to make these criminals talk then let our government give it a try! Until there is justice, avoid Aruba!
 
January 19, 2006, 1:23 pm CST

Remedy for Aruba

Quote From: my_2angels

If Natalee was as drunk as the boys claimed she was, then there could be a charge of sexual misconduct. It depends on the law in Aruba. In America, if a girl/woman, in a alcohol induced haze, has sex with a man who is NOT under the influence of alcohol or other drugs and who knows that she is, in fact, incapable of making the choice with a clear head, then (in some states) it is considered either rape or sexual misconduct.
Given all you say is true then all blonde young females should not go to Aruba (maybe males too).
 
January 19, 2006, 1:28 pm CST

What Are They Thinking?

I am truly sorry that Natalee Holloway's family is suffering with so many unanswered questions concerning their daughter's disappearance.  I do think the involvement of their governor calling for a boycott of Aruba is very irresponsible.  That decision will hurt  innocent people a lot more than government officials who may be making bad decisions concerning the investigation.  The loss of tourism will result in the loss of jobs and affect families abilities to feed their children and provide for their necessities.  We're talking about other innocent individuals who are not responsible for what happened to Natalie and who should not become victims also.   

  

I also found the family lawyer showed a lot of ignorance and arrogance in expecting that the legal system in another country would operate the exact same as it does in the USA.  Even within the U.S., there are differences depending on the state or municipality involved.  His saying definitively how things "should" be progressing and how officials "should" have handled arresting, retaining, the buys suspected of harming Natalie is based on law that he studied based on the Constitution of the U.S.  Unless he is a specialist in international law - and he didn't appear to be from his comments - he is way out of line.  He really appeared to be using bullying tactics rather than good legal judgement in the way he presented himself. 

  

Finally, with all of the women who disappear in the U.S., why is this one case consuming the media?  I'm not saying there should not be concern, but I wonder if this was a woman of color from a poor family, would that family have access to the media, Dr. Phil, a state governor, etc.?  I doubt it and THAT enrages me. 

 
January 19, 2006, 1:31 pm CST

01/19 Follow-ups

Quote From: yahootie

I'm trying to understand what holding a criminal who broke our laws from Holland has anything to do with a young woman being kidnapped and likely murdered on a school trip to the Caribbean.  Forgive me if I don't see the similarity.  As for why we're so livid with the Aruban government, I'll explain. 

1.  It should not be so hard for this small island to figure out what happened to this young pretty white woman who would stick out like a sore thumb. 

2.  The Caribbean as a whole is largely impoverished.  Their economy is based on tourism of which the majority is American. 

3.  "Strange" as you say, Americans are not interested in visiting a country that is not willing to get to the bottom of this case or to communicate all of its details to America. 

Now, regarding our country:  Europeans seem to find a great deal of pleasure in bashing Americans and declaring us imbeciles.  Perhaps its because we have a history of which we can be proud.  Perhaps its because our not-so-distant relatives sacrificed their very lives so that we may live freely and enjoy the democracy that we have.  I'm not sure how many Americans have tried illegal means to live in Holland this year or any European country.  I can bet every dollar in my 401K that such a number would not hold a candle to the number of your citizens trying to become a "strange American."  Our constitution is respected by our government and civilians alike.  It has been emulated by countless nations and regarded as an ideal government.   

Lastly, if your daughter came to NYC and a thuggish American or group thereof kidnapped  her, forced her into prostitution, killed her, or any other great number of awful things, my elected president (past, present or future) would not shrug it off or say, "What else can I do?"   When you patronize our country legally, and out of leisure, surely, we owe you the assurance that your child will not be "lost" without explanation.  I'm horrified that you would find this "strange."  Would you not scream from every mountain peak not to visit the USA?  When we go to Aruba, a nation that would suffer greatly without us, and we don't return, our nation will scream until it has answers.  If yours would not, perhaps your country is the "strange" one and I wouldn't let your children travel if I were you. 

Yahootie, I'm not sure which planet you live on, but it sure ain't the same as mine. 

  

You contradict yourself in point 1 and 2. How would a young pretty (I beg to differ) white woman stick out like a sore thumb amidst all these American tourists...??? 

  

The 2nd part of your post makes even less sense. Your history (exept for the very recent couple of hundred years) is the same as the European history. For the very simple fact that your country didn't exist before then and most of the first "Americans" came from Europe. And no, if we do bash America it has nothing to do with history, but everything with this "we are the best" attitude that many of you seem to have. Get it into your thick skulls, you are not the best! Stop abusing your power and stop spreading so much hatred. Thanks to your "war on terror" I'm not safe on my own street. America has angred so many people that they are even attacking my country to show you how angry they are (pretty pissed off really!). Before this "war", I was perfectly safe, but not anymore. Thanks America! 

  

Also, not many Europeans will have tried to enter the US illegally as we are allowed to enter legally. In fact, we don't even need a visa! Or do you think Europe is the same as Africa, Asia, South America, etc? Now that wouldn't surprise me, coming from an American....Ha! Ha! Use your 401K to get some education... 

  

Your constitution is even abused by your own President. Isn't the NSA "eavesdropping" on Americans and didn't Bush say that this was a "vital tool against terrorism"? I'm sure the constitution and the law says that this is not allowed......Oh, and how much does your President care for "missing" Americans? He never mentiones them in any speach and he hasn't mentioned Natalee's name once....With so many Americans missing in your own country, it would take him weeks to mention them all! And that's not even including the amount of Europeans and other foreigners missing in the US! 

  

And finally, my daughter will NEVER be allowed to travel to NYC on her own. And even if she did, she would know better not to get drunk and get into a car with 3 strangers. Simple and common sense really! 

 
January 19, 2006, 1:32 pm CST

01/19 Follow-ups

Quote From: cheeker

You Arubans are so fearful of your own government you are left in the dark when it comes to social issues and you don't questions what you're told.

I've been to other places beside the United States and I can tell you that mnay, many other people in the world are simply living in fear. This fear is so great that it obstructs the truth. They need to be emancipated.


1. I am Dutch, and I live in the Netherlands. I am NOT Arubian.  

2. My country (netherlands) is a free democratic country. And if may say, the US is the country that most people fear.  

(I can say more about this subject, but it's not about what were talking about on the board is it.  

  

I you got an e-mail (hotmail or something) we can furder descussing.  

If you would like.  

 
January 19, 2006, 1:32 pm CST

Perhaps

Quote From: yahootie

I'm trying to understand what holding a criminal who broke our laws from Holland has anything to do with a young woman being kidnapped and likely murdered on a school trip to the Caribbean.  Forgive me if I don't see the similarity.  As for why we're so livid with the Aruban government, I'll explain. 

1.  It should not be so hard for this small island to figure out what happened to this young pretty white woman who would stick out like a sore thumb. 

2.  The Caribbean as a whole is largely impoverished.  Their economy is based on tourism of which the majority is American. 

3.  "Strange" as you say, Americans are not interested in visiting a country that is not willing to get to the bottom of this case or to communicate all of its details to America. 

Now, regarding our country:  Europeans seem to find a great deal of pleasure in bashing Americans and declaring us imbeciles.  Perhaps its because we have a history of which we can be proud.  Perhaps its because our not-so-distant relatives sacrificed their very lives so that we may live freely and enjoy the democracy that we have.  I'm not sure how many Americans have tried illegal means to live in Holland this year or any European country.  I can bet every dollar in my 401K that such a number would not hold a candle to the number of your citizens trying to become a "strange American."  Our constitution is respected by our government and civilians alike.  It has been emulated by countless nations and regarded as an ideal government.   

Lastly, if your daughter came to NYC and a thuggish American or group thereof kidnapped  her, forced her into prostitution, killed her, or any other great number of awful things, my elected president (past, present or future) would not shrug it off or say, "What else can I do?"   When you patronize our country legally, and out of leisure, surely, we owe you the assurance that your child will not be "lost" without explanation.  I'm horrified that you would find this "strange."  Would you not scream from every mountain peak not to visit the USA?  When we go to Aruba, a nation that would suffer greatly without us, and we don't return, our nation will scream until it has answers.  If yours would not, perhaps your country is the "strange" one and I wouldn't let your children travel if I were you. 

Perhaps you don't understand. I do.  Aruba does not value the human being as haven been made in the image of God and has His value in them on earth.  If you understand this single fact, then you'll understand why some countries, such as Aruba should not be the recepient of our persons and funds.  Let those who think alike keep to themselves so that they can treat themselves like themselves.  This is not an over-simplification. This is life or death decision that should be made, not from rhetoric but, from results.
 
January 19, 2006, 1:33 pm CST

01/19 Follow-ups

Quote From: judyblue22

There are cases like this in Canada and the United States.  "Thinking" someone is guilty is a far cry from having sufficent evidence to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.  That is the standard we have all decided is appropriate before incarceration is justified (except in the US "war on terror").  In this case, I doubt the prosecutors have sufficient evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Natalee is dead, let alone who killed her. 

  

I agree that it is very frustrating when a crime is unsolved.  I know it must be horrible for Natalee's family not to know about her.  There are lots of unsolved missing person cases in the US, Mexico, Canada and Europe too.  Boycotting Aruba is a pointless action unless you are also willing to promote a tourism boycott of every territory  in which people are missing and the crime is unsolved.  That might bite the US harder than Aruba. 

Excellent post Judyblue!
 
January 19, 2006, 1:37 pm CST

Strange Americans....not quite

Quote From: ninjai

You americans are so strange......  

  

First of all I would like to say that these thing (kidnapping/murder/rape) never schould happen. Because it's terrible.  

  

But the one thing I don't understand about the USA is: They would like that everyone is behaving as they say. So a american girl is lost in Aruba and Aruba should 'obey' the USA???? Why.  

I am Dutch and the laws in Aruba are the same like ours. Those laws are good. Because if you look to american prisons there are innocent people out there. Because they were pressured by the police to say they did it.  

(B.T.W I am NOT discussing now about if Joran is quilty or not ok, so please...)  

  

Another thing I would like to add is another case, here in the Netherlands we have another gay who did crimes in the Netherlands. But he smugled stuf to the USA. The Dutch needed to give him to the americans because they wanted. HE IS DUTCH. And now there is prove that meanwile the investigation to the actions of the "Zwarte Cobra" (his name) the americans didn't respect our laws.  

They broke it on cerveral points.  

  

You can't say to other country's: You should treat us with respect, while in meanwhile you disrespect them.  

  

I strongly belive you don't now enything about other countries. Americans only have a vission about there own beloning, and there wallet.  

And by the way did you ever send 3 F-16 to search for a foreiner who was lost in ameica?  

  

  

I hope tis discussion will be a lot better than the last one we had on these boards about Nathalee Holloway. Treat echtother with respect, and please, don't say: You are stupid / basterds / dump or that stuff. Everyone has a diffrent vission, and respect each other. Or it won't be a good discussion. On the last board it was more: Kill the Arubans and Dutch.  

But comeon respect you have to earn, you can't take it by forse.  

  

Have a nice day, Ninjai  

I for one cannot believe the people in Aruba are covering this up and to bring an idiot to the Dr Phil show to do nothing more than blow smoke up someone's ass is very disturbing to me. If in fact the situation was reversed I'm sure the Aruban people would be all over the USA trying to get to the bottom of this. And as far as the USA interferring with everything if it wasn't for the USA what the hell would you people have. Surely nothing in my book, you're all so damned scared of everything you cant even fight for your own damn freedom so dont post messages calling the people of USA strange, weird or whatever you want to call us, the fact of the matter here is a girl is missing and YES we want answers and yes there is a cover up and yes the Aruban government is doing absolutely nothing but covering their own ass and be assured the truth will come out and someone will pay for what happened. If it were your daughter you'd be just as outraged as Natalee's mother is. As far as boycotting Aruba I'm all for that along with all the other foreign countries. After all what would their countries be without the all AMERICAN DOLLAR!
 
January 19, 2006, 1:39 pm CST

I guess we just want to be safe anyplace in the world, and so do you.

Quote From: ninjai

You americans are so strange......  

  

First of all I would like to say that these thing (kidnapping/murder/rape) never schould happen. Because it's terrible.  

  

But the one thing I don't understand about the USA is: They would like that everyone is behaving as they say. So a american girl is lost in Aruba and Aruba should 'obey' the USA???? Why.  

I am Dutch and the laws in Aruba are the same like ours. Those laws are good. Because if you look to american prisons there are innocent people out there. Because they were pressured by the police to say they did it.  

(B.T.W I am NOT discussing now about if Joran is quilty or not ok, so please...)  

  

Another thing I would like to add is another case, here in the Netherlands we have another gay who did crimes in the Netherlands. But he smugled stuf to the USA. The Dutch needed to give him to the americans because they wanted. HE IS DUTCH. And now there is prove that meanwile the investigation to the actions of the "Zwarte Cobra" (his name) the americans didn't respect our laws.  

They broke it on cerveral points.  

  

You can't say to other country's: You should treat us with respect, while in meanwhile you disrespect them.  

  

I strongly belive you don't now enything about other countries. Americans only have a vission about there own beloning, and there wallet.  

And by the way did you ever send 3 F-16 to search for a foreiner who was lost in ameica?  

  

  

I hope tis discussion will be a lot better than the last one we had on these boards about Nathalee Holloway. Treat echtother with respect, and please, don't say: You are stupid / basterds / dump or that stuff. Everyone has a diffrent vission, and respect each other. Or it won't be a good discussion. On the last board it was more: Kill the Arubans and Dutch.  

But comeon respect you have to earn, you can't take it by forse.  

  

Have a nice day, Ninjai  

There is crime all over the world,  People have to be safe no matter where they go. 

  

In Turkey  For stealing or DUI first time, cut off finger,second offense cut off hand, third offense time dead. 

  

 In Some countries for infidelity, they cut off the Head in Public.  

  

Just Laws,Behaviors,Culture, People are different in the world.  

  

TC  John  

 
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