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Topic : 06/13 Trapped

Number of Replies: 197
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Created on : Friday, January 27, 2006, 02:36:31 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 01/30/06) When two people get married, they proclaim, "For better or worse," but what happens when the worse part is all there is? Chris and April got married six weeks after their first date. Three years later, Chris says he's trapped between his wife and his daughter from his first marriage. April feels trapped in a marriage with someone she didn't know well enough to begin with, who is not the parent she thought he would be. With constant fighting in front of the children and frequent separations, can they learn to find balance? Then, Lori says if she had the money she would take her kids and divorce Tom, her husband of 10 years, but since he controls all the finances, she has no money for an attorney. Lori has to ask him for money for everything -- including buying groceries and filling her car with gas. Can Tom learn to share the wealth and treat Lori like his wife, not his child? Talk about the show here.


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June 15, 2006, 12:06 pm CDT

agree to disagree

Quote From: naturesgir

I agree that men can fight their natural impulses...  The fact that they can be fought doesn't mean the impulses aren't natural...  People can also starve themselves (diet; fighting the natural impulse to eat) and forgo sex altogether to live a celibate lifestyle (religious)...  I'm simply arguing that a lot of divorces, remarriages, redivorces, and re-remarriages are the result of a very naive and unrealistic notion that "true love" means that men can HAPPILY and HEALTHILY live with sex with only one woman their entire lives when the male of every other species is polygamous, with very few exceptions, and even with NO sex (a whole lot of marriages "cut off" after the 2.5 kids come).  Just read these boards or, indeed, any "relationship" column, and you'll see that -- although men presumably can "choose" not to cheat -- a staggering number do; possibly only those who truly fear the repercussions refrain, but IMHO it takes a monumental effort on their part -- not natural.  I'm suggesting it might be more mature and rational to just accept this than to get divorced four times looking for some unattainable romantic ideal that exists only infrequently if at all.  And no, I'm not a man; just one of the few women walking around who isn't in denial about most men's sex lives...
I can see your point, you seem like a very strong and opinionated woman (aren't we all :) ), and I understand where you are coming from. I honestly felt that you were a man, and even though you are not (makes littlle to no difference to me), I was thinking you were justifiying this behavior. I am so sick of people doing wrong things and then passing the buck and not taking any accountability for themselves. HELLO, if you did it, own it. As everyone on the message board can quote along with me "you can't change what you don't acknowledge". But so you know, you don't have to follow sway and go with what the world considers "normal". I dunno what your relationship(s) have been like, but I have had a few. And yeah, I will agree, my husband is honest and told me what you have posted, he saw other women and thought of them sexually (ouch to my self esteem), but after ALOT of communication and openess (and a really good christian marrige therapy called "marrige encounter") he and I have become best friends. He doesn't WANT to cheat. Fear of me leaving him IS there, but he doesn't really want anyone else. His take is "why go out for hamburgers when I have steak at home". and I am so happy to hear that and know that he thinks that about me, and like I said before, a person can tell when someone else is being fake, I mean take a deep look and quit lying to yourself, so I do know he is speaking from his hear. PLUS, I do have three children and cannot fathom how some women only have sex once (or less) a week. I am tired, but I also enjoy the close intimate time with my husband and it keeps us both satisfied. Besides that, I REALLY lucked out and married my best friend. (we had been friends for, hmmm..... (counting.....) 5 years before we got married (plus two kids but that was after being friends for a couple of  years first). And not ALL men are like you quoted above, but I will admit, many, many are and that is too sad that women have just accepted that. I appreciate your veiw and I am sorry if I came across harsh and thank you for no angry reply!
 
June 15, 2006, 12:23 pm CDT

06/13 Trapped

Quote From: terrbin

You keep missing the boat here.  Men's (or women's) monogamy is not about some immature and unattainable romantic ideal as you suggest.  It's about mature behavior and commitment to a life outside of just considering one's impulses.  You believe that because impulses may be "natural," that they are, by extension, impossible or too difficult to control, or just plainly the way we should accept that life should be.  Hogwash.  The "relationship" columns and boards are also filled with cheating WOMEN.  But as I said before, you'll probably make something different of that since women's sexuality is still taboo.  We'd much rather believe women want sex for some other reason and not just because women also have a libido

  

Your belief that it is a "...naive and unrealistic notion that true love means that men can happily and healthily live with sex with only one woman their entire lives when the male of every other species is polygamous, with very few exceptions...." leaves me dizzy.  I sound like a broken record when I insist that we are NOT "other" species.  We are different from the rest of the animal world.  We are human.  We are different.  We have a conscience.  We have morality and a sense of right and wrong.  (And as you admitted yourself, even in the animal world there are monogamous pairings -- humans are just one of them). Also, to suggest that the only men who are monogamous are so because they "truly fear the repercussions" is beyond absurd, and doesn't follow your own logic. Since when would "repercussions" be able to control the primal and overwhelming desire which YOU claim these men have and which is unchangeable?  Some people (that includes men) are actually mature, committed, loving mates that deliberately avoid succumbing to sexual temptation for the sake of their loved one, because they deem the monogamous relationship they are in to be WORTH forsaking that desire.  Maybe you just don't feel worthy of this, and you think that most men also don't feel that women are worthy of this kind of commitment.  But know this, many men (more than a small minority) believe in the worth of their relationship and wouldn't risk it for base and short-lived moments of pleasure and excitement with another woman.  They choose to find this pleasure and excitement with their monogamous partner instead, and gain much more than extra-marital affairs could ever hope to offer.  This is a discipline and a sacrifice for both partners to accomplish -- not just the man -- and well worth the price.  (And don't be so naive as to think everything doesn't have a "price"....  Resist the temptation to use the price as a reason to be polygamous.) The point is to choose (and not believe that urges choose for you) the better of two options for everyone involved between monogamy and polygamy.  If one wants only polygamy, then simply don't commit as a monogamous person.  Say this up front and find a partner with the same philosophy.  Simple. 

  

You must have had some very disappointing experiences with men.  That truly sucks if that's the case.  I wouldn't wish betrayal on anyone.  But know that your vision of monogamy simply isn't so.  NO ONE IS HAPPY AND HEALTHY 100% OF THE TIME IN ANY RELATIONSHIP, REGARDLESS OF THE NATURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP.  You claim that since men can't be happy in monogamy, (a point I don't agree with) that this supports (proves) that polygamy is then the natural way to go, and that women should simply accept this.  (Again, I'll remind you that you are discounting many WOMEN'S needs and feelings by brazenly offering this as a solution, and forgetting that most men WANT their women to be monogamous -- It's a two-way street....).  Let me ask you this:  Would you still endorse multiple affairs if you realized that polygamy is NOT likely to create a happy and healthy life/relationship either?  Surely you are old enough to realize that neither men, nor women, can live in a perfect relationship -- regardless of how many partners they do or don't have.  Therefore, your logic that "male unhappiness" is the reason to accept polygamy is moot because people are unhappy from time to time in any relationship.  It's just human nature to have "had enough" of our loved one's daily idiosyncrasies and annoying habits -- at least from time to time -- no matter how many of those loved ones you have.  It's easier to quit a relationship, and seek another, (or seek multiple affairs) and repeat this pattern over and over and over and over until death, or impotence, whichever comes first.  (Just kidding -- Let's not take ourselves too seriously here).  But the alternative -- that is, to work towards a monogamous relationship that is as happy as any long term relationship can and should be -- benefits the couple, their family, and society at large.  This is a lofty, but doable, goal.  A very worthy goal.  (I've written at length about this in previous posts.)  This is what I believe is important to encourage.  Also remember this, giving any gender, male or female, carte blanche to have extra-marital affairs is also downright unhealthy in today's day and age! 

  

Finally, I never denied cheating happens or that desire exists and is very strong (one would have to be very inexperienced to believe such things).  I simply believe that it is not true, and damaging to perpetuate, that a natural impulse can't and shouldn't be controlled.  If we expected a higher standard of ourselves, and used the discipline and self-control we DO have as humans, we would have a better society -- never perfect -- just better.  So do us all a favor, stop telling men it's only natural that they cheat because they simply can't help it, and that too much is being asked of the poor dears, and perhaps you will actually inspire someone on the verge of seeking an extra-marital partner to treasure, love and desire who they have rather than who they don't

I couldn't agree more! I know I said I saw the other person's point of veiw, and I did, but I still don't agree with it. But YOU, you hit on the head what I was thinking and couldn't articulate. My husband and I both wanted out at some point because we were in selfish parts of our relationship and thinking only of ourselves. It wasn't until we communicated and became sellfless and put the other first that we are truly happy. I don't need to worry about my needs or wants, my husband is looking out for those as I look out for his instead of my own. We feel less entitled, and I believe that may be where your coming from. Men and women who cheat feel entitled to more, and are too selfish to repair and look for that in the relationship that they are currently in. Like you said, it is soooo much easier to look outside but no saying has ever been truer than "the grass is always greener". As for "natural" it is natural. To sin is a natural human urge, but that means thinking only of your self and putting your needs before the needs of others, regardless of the consequences. I, too, agree that it is unacceptable for a man to cheat and I know I am not alone, but as women we can, at times, be insecure, and what is worse for that than your man desiring another woman. AND ITS TEMPORAL!!!! why do they not leave their wives? these selfish cheaters. Because they don't want to lose the woman who puts up with his crap and cleans up after him and watches his children. Yes, he may still love her, or have love for her, but he is too busy thinking of what the world tells him he should have (a mistress... it's acceptable and no one will know!). As i've said, I am tired of people doing unacceptable things and making it acceptable by putting some tag on it so that they no longer have to have the burden of consequence or accountablility.
 
June 17, 2006, 4:23 pm CDT

MRI test results

THE WORSE THING BOUT HAVING TESTS  DONE IS THE WAITING FER THE RESULTS IT'S DRIVIN ME MORE NUTTY. I'M JUST HOPIN IT'S GOOD NEWS, I'VE ALMOST LOST A MEMBER OF MY FAMILY, BUT MY FAMILY AINT WITH THE HUMAN RACE THEY ARE ANIMALS BUT THERE'RE ALL I'VE GOT LEFT.  I DONT KNOW HOW MUCH LONGER I'LL EVEN COME TO THIS WEB PAGE OF DR. PHIL, IT DON'T SEEM WORTH IT ANUMORE. P. S I FIGURE I'LL BE TOLD I'M WRONG BUT IT'S MY FREEDOM OF CHOICE.   COLT66
 
June 20, 2006, 8:25 pm CDT

MRI RESULTS

SO FAR SO GOOD BUT MY DOC. THINKS I MIGHT OF HAD A STROKE SOMETIME IN THE LAST 2 YRS.  SO I'M GOING BACK TO THE HOSPITAL FER MORE TESTS, CAUSE I STILL HAVE THE PAIN. I JUST WISH I KNEW WHAT THE PROBLEM WAS, MY DOC KEEPS RUNNIN INTO DEAD ENDS WITH THE TESTS, I GUESS I'M A JIGSAW PUZZLE, HE'S TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT TESTS ARE NEEDED TO FIND THE SOURCE THAT'S CAUSIN THE PAIN & RELIEF ME OF IT.   COLT66
 
June 23, 2006, 12:00 am CDT

NIGHTMARES

DO NIGHTMARES MEAN ANYTHING IF U KEEP HAVING THE SAME ONES OVER & OVER, IS IT A SIGN OF WHAT IS TO BECOME? I'VE ASKED MY COUNSELER BUT HE DIDNT KNOW,  IS THERE A REASON PEOPLE HAVE THEM OTHER THAN HAVING A BAD DAY. IF ANYONE CAN ANSWER THIS QUESTION OR GIVE ME SOME SUGGESTIONS IT WOULD HELP ME OUT, I'M AFRAID I MIGHT HURT SOMEONE BESIDE MYSELF. 

 
June 28, 2006, 6:11 pm CDT

4TH OF JULY

JUST WISHING EVERYBODY A HAPPY 4TH OF JULY,  MAY YOU ALL ENJOY YOUR INDPENDANCE DAY, SORRY CAN'T SPELL TOO GOOD, I SPELL AS IT SOUNDS. AND MAY IT BE PEACEFULL FER ALL, THROUGH OUT THE EVENTS THAT MAY TAKE PLACE.  COLT66
 
July 1, 2006, 9:58 pm CDT

empty room

I FEEL LIKE I'M TRAPPED IN AN EMPTY ROOM, IS THERE ANYBODY ON HERE ANYMORE OR HAVE I'VE BEEN BLOCKED OUT.   COLT66
 
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