Topic : 06/21 "Throw It Out!"

Last winter  we found my mother in law living in a mobile home 4' high garbage, clothing, food containers, pop cans, ashtrays overflowing onto the floors, and undistinguishable other items completely throughout unaware that there was anything wrong with her living conditions besides the fact her pilot light was out on her furnace. To increase our horror, she was raising a grandson who was about to graduate from high school and neither one of them realized, or was able to admit that there was a problem.  My MIL is a small, quiet, and extremely proud and private woman who has had to scrape to survive.  She is 62 yrs old, working circles around teens and young adults at a gas station market - stocking shelves and coolers, running a register and making sandwiches normally 6 days a week.  She lost her mother, her best friend, and her husband all within 6 months of each other several years ago. She has buried an infant, and a grown son.  She has a daughter with a condition that requires her to live in a sheltered group home environment, my husband who has had medical issues.  She is barely able to survive, let alone offer anything to others. 

  

 The first time we tried to get into the trailer we could barely get the door open 2' and the smell was so wretched my husband immediately turned and vomited on the porch.  After masking and gloving up we attempted to enter the home to clean but my husband was a kidney dialysis patient at the time (we recently received a transplant YEAH) and the obvious health hazards weren't worth his life, and honestly, it was more than I could bear.  I sobbed for days after seeing this.   She had lived a year with no water (she worked EVERY DAY) and no heat.  We heard rats scurrying under trash that sounded to be the size of cats.  We got her county  Adult Protective services involved and are so appreciative of their efforts.  They treated her with respect, and understanding and allowed her to maintain her dignity. They made an extremely difficult situation tolerable for us.  They came into her mobile home,  and  removed two 25' roll off dumpsters full of furniture, garbage, clothing, bungy corded the refridgerator (which was full of rotted food), and other appliances.  They found rat skeletons inside furniture.  By the time they made it to her back bedroom, they found black mold on the walls and ceiling.  She was told she would not be able to return to her home of 30 years (she had been living with us since we found her like this, going on 9 months at this point).  They helped her find an apartment and remove some of her personal items.  This story goes on and on but what continues to amaze me is how this teenage boy was able to live there and not ask for help.  Did none of his friends think there might be a problem?  Where was he showering?  Where was he sleeping?  You couldn't get to any of the bedrooms.  My MIL sat/slept in a chair.  It was the only thing not comletely covered with garbage.  We have very little relationship with him.  He is an adult now, who is back living with his grandmother in a senior facility.  I'm scared that she will get caught with him there and lose her apartment.  There is some sickness between the two of them, the enabling and the secret life.  I sooo wish I could get some help for this boy and push him into the real world.  Any conversation we attempt with him is filled with "I know, it's good, it's all good, yeah, uha, ok".  What I want to do is shake him and tell him IT'S NOT OK, he has been abused, we want to help him.  I know he is damaged and he certianly won't listen to us. I'm sure he feels as if his only Uncle wasn't there when he could have been.   He is 18, no job, no car, no license, no desire....sad.  Angers us but we're helpless.   

  

On one recent trip to visit the MIL, after the boy had returned to live with her again, we hauled out 4 bags of garbage, old food, pop cans and spitoons.  She won't tell him no.  She needs to be needed I guess.  She won't get counseling.  My husband  is beside himself with shame, grief, embarassment and confusion.  What do we do?  Do we leave her be?  Be certian she is safe?  How do we get this boy up and out on his own?    She attempts to guilt us, saying when her husband died, she didn't have anyone to help her.  The phone works two ways.  She tries to guilt my husband because he has made a life for himself and didn't force his way into her life after she started pushing him away.   I have only been part of this family for a few years.  The difference between my husband and I, is that the first time my own mother would quit inviting me into her house, and insisted on family get togethers be at the local McDonalds, I would have helped myself through her front door regardless. 

  

Anyhow.....we deal with this every week.  I'm sure there will come a point when she can't do for herself anymore and we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.  Until then, it's just lots of prayer and understanding.  She is sick, like lots of other people.  We were so amazed that this problem is as common really as it is. 

  

Good luck to all who are involved with this illness.  Suggestions are always appreciated! 

  

Kelly 

Galloway Ohio 

Ok, for some reason my last message didn't post... 

  

Nothing I hate more than when that happens. 

  

HEY, ALL YOU PEOPLE THAT LIVE WITH THE HOARDERS. 

  

Throw the crap out, back a truck up to the house and fill it. 

  

So what if they get mad, who cares, you know what they'll get over it. 

  

Those of you who hoard are causing unecessary stress and problems, and those of you who let the hoarder hoard are just stupid.  Throw the crap out. 

My husband of 20 years is a serious hoarder. We pay for 12 storages ($1300/month), the attic and garage is full. His office is so full that he can not get in it. He barely fits in the 2nd office. The garage smells bad, etc. I have been doing everything and anything from building shelves and cabinets in 3 car garage ($7000) to buy a land to build a storage! The land is like a junk yard and we still pay for storage. When I met him, he had 7 non working cars. Stuff was all over, including animal waist all over. I was not in denial, I really bought his reasons. Now, 20 years passed, and I am tired. 

I cleaned up the garage last Sept (one large foot dumpster), it is full now. 

One thing I learned is that throwing away, doesn't solve the problem, they fill it up again. He does that with food, etc. He is 54 and in bad physical shape. If I throw away food, he gets it from the garbage and eats it. Because he "doesn't believe in wasting".  

Any way, I had him tape the show and when I came home I asked him what he thinks and I already knew the answer "that is not really like me" - He is worse!! I love him and I am considering leaving if he doesn't get help this year. We are behind in taxes because he wants to do them, but can't find the papers, I find CPAs but we don't have papers to give her, etc. It is a form of controlling. 

His friend gave us a book that helped him "don't let clutter control your life" from an ex-hoarder. He read it and said "that is not really like my problem".  

Any how, where is the link to professionals for help? I know it is a mental condition and I believe he can get help and I know it will be an extensive work. He shopped all Xmas and he bought all the "deals" and now we have to rent another storage ... by the way, our 14 year old is becoming just the same!!! And that is why I am considering leaving to help her. 

Can u please post the related web sites for help? I don't know what did Dr. Phill recommended? 

  

I had been hoping Dr. Phil would do a show on those of us who clutter. I have been extremely disappointed when he has done this type of show in the past. 

  

I usually agree with Dr. Phil, but what he has done in the past is send a truck to clean out those folks home. THAT DOES NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. It's like taking the bottle an alcohol has right now and pouring it down the drain. The alcoholic just goes and buys another bottle to drink from. The clutter-bug will just re-clutter. 

  

Thankfully Dr. Phil didn't send the trucks right away. But I'm not sure he should send them at all. If these folks don't go thru the clutter themselves will they ever be healed? I think you have to do the work to get the results you want -- isn't that what Dr. Phil usually says? 

  

I think Dr. Phil is still missing the boat on hoarders, pack-rats, clutterers. (I read in a book once by 2 former clutter-bug sisters, that those who don't clutter can't understand those of us who do/or useed to because our brains are set up differently.) I don't think Dr. Phil understands the seriousness of this problem. 

  

While I will agree that his 2 guests have other problems, including grieving the loss of a parent, these folks I believe have a deeper problem. Why isn't anyone researching this. As the realtor posted here - we would be surprised to see all the people who have this problem. 

  

I BELIEVE IT MAY BE AN ADDICTION - LIKE THOSE WHO ARE ADDICTED TO ALCOHOL, DRUGS, FOOD, SHOPPING. 

  

Speaking from my own family, I always say it is genetic. I joke about this to others, but I ultimately believe there is truth there. My 102 year old grandmother has always been a collector, keeper, clutterer. My aunts are the same way. My mother raised me in a cluttered home and I have tried desperately, but unsuccessfully most of the time, not to raise my daughter this way. (I also believe my father's father may have been the same way.) 

  

I believe my 102 year old grandmother was raised under similar circumstances. I'm a more likely to be a clutter-bug because of genetics, just like the alcoholic is genetically more likely to be an alcoholic? Or  maybe it's some form of learned behavior - but when you know it doesn't make sense why do you keep harming yourself. I see similarities between those dealing with a recognized form of addiction and those having pack-rat mentality. 

  

I don't want to be an addict, but am I addicted to things? They certainly keep the outside world from coming in!! Just like the alcoholic who doesn't have to face the world sober, I can keep the outside world from coming in - at least to my house. 

  

That's the biggest heart-break of all. For myself and for my daughter. (I'm a single mom and things in my house were never this bad when I was a stay-at-home mom, but once I was divorced and had to go to work, I lost a lot of the organizational time I needed to keep my home from becoming cluttered!) 

  

My daughter can't have friends over, because I'm embarrased about our home and at 16 her room is a diaster because she's repeating my behavior. To the point that I can't even redecorate her room - she still has the nursery wallpaper boarder on her walls from her baby days. I've offered to totally redecorate her room if she'll just clean it. But like her mom, she's too busy with everything else in life. 

  

It's heart-breaking for me, because I don't want her to repeat my mistakes. It's also heart-breaking for me because I am unable to fulfill one of my biggest dreams for myself. That is to be married to a man of honor. Dr. Phil's Love Smart is right on track - and in my own way I have made my lists of what I need in a mate. I could be one of Dr. Phil's Love Smart girls - but I would need to clean my house first. 

  

I have been hurt by others in the past, physically, sexually, emotionally and financially. I sometimes wonder if keeping a cluttered home is a way of building a wall around myself and keeping others from getting close enough to hurt me again. I have been in an on-again-off-again relationship with the same man for nearly 9 years - he has never been in my house. He has never asked why, and I have never told him why. Everything else about me looks so put together. 

  

Dr. Phil please address the addictive behaviors of a pack-rat. 

Because there presently doesn't seem to be one, I am putting together a website for Children Of Hoarders (for those who grew up in a hoarders home), and for children who may currently be living in one so they know they are not alone.   

I wish there was a forum that I could have gone to as a kid so I would have known that my family wasn't the only one, I wasn't alone in the shame and to know what my mom did actually had a name.  There seems to be so many who can relate.   

The site will explain hoarding (keeping in mind any young kids who will read it) and  have anonymous (or pseudonyms if indicated) stories from COH, so if anyone is interested in sharing theirs, send to: info@childrenofhoarders.com. Thanks.  

  

My hoarding is probably very directly related to my attachment disorder--it functions as a way of keeping me from getting close to others so they can't get into my life and hurt me, as happened when I was little. Perhaps the origin of starting to collect was my way of trying to fill the hole in my heart, or trying to save everything I could since I'd already lost what meant so much to me. Your paragraph 10 comments on your having not had this trouble before getting divorced. Regardless of how much some people look forward to getting a divorce, it does represent a loss. You mentioned your dream of being married to a man of honor. Poof. That dream was gone--and your daughter lost a very important connection with her dad. Even if these were not good relatiionships, the hopes and dreams could remain, at least until divorced.Alcoholism also runs in my family--even my adopted brother--and so did the inability to relate to others and to experience one's own feelings and respond appropriately to them. Since there was no modeling of such functional behavior for my Mom to learn from, she didn't have much chance of teaching it to us. My brothers and I did a good job of figuring out how to stuff our feelings so we wouldn't have to deal with them. I do not consider this to be genetic. I consider it a learned behavior--granted it wasn't an intended one, but was definitely and clearly taught. Some people know how to have, respond to and learn from their feelings. They don't end up being alcoholics and they manage to bring up their kids with approp. social/survival skills. I believe my addiction, if I'm to call it that, would be to isolation (ie the absence of connecting with others). Recovery from this is to learn how to make these connections and start doing it. Since this is not an easy or comfortable process, I instinctively avoid it. Doesn't this sound very similar to what alcoholics and other addicts deal with? If I call it genetic I don't have to look at what my job is or what my deficiencies are--just that no one likes me, which isn't my fault. After all, the mess can't be the reason no one likes me because no one sees it. It is this kind of thing that my therapist has me practicing--joining in with others--not just addressing the mess.

I wish it was so simple as some say here to "throw it out".  I am female 46 yrs old.  I lost my mother when I was 8 yrs old so that was the start of my problems.  I think I was finally doing ok whne they found my brother who was in great shape dead of a heart attack at 35.  Then my sister had a gall bladder surgery and died suddenly.  I have been surrounded by death my whole life.  Dr Phil mentioned about the one where his father died.  I do believe for the first time in my life, that is what is wrong with me. 

 

I have stuff piled everywhere and don't know what to do with it.  I now take care of sick father and have no job so its not like I can pay to have it fixed.  I feel like I could hire someone to come in and get all this stuff out and I could start over but I don't have a job now so I don't have the money. 

 

I am glad I am not alone, but I want to fix this and fix it soon. 

 first, as a baby i think that having a bunch of stuffies in my crib seemed to nurture me ... but also protect me.  my parents both had *so* many issues it's amazing i survived to grow up.  only as my healing progresses am i now able to stop hoarding.

second, they made me feel *responsible* for everything!!  so whenever i see stuff that "needs me" ... i take it home.  until lately when i can look beyond the moment and realize there are other people out there and they might actually need those things.  (in fact, last night i took an old table out and put it near the dumpster ... today i watched my neighbor take my old table home. it was good to see that!)

third, i never knew when i might find that "perfect dress" or that "perfect whatever" again ... i still have too little trust in the future. soooo of course i'm going to grab it, *now*!  but a houseful of clutter is ... not perfect, either!!  hooray there are so many places to donate stuff!

fourth, i grew up w/ depression-era parents so "use it up, wear it out, etc" as our motto.  if something broke or got stained, it was kept for the useful parts it still had.  with the oppressive upbringing i got, i grew up too afraid to stand up to that way of thinking ... til now.  i realize that at times i might through out something and later regret it, but now i realize that i can afford to replace it. ... it's amazing what i've found at good garage sales!

fifth, simply being too afraid of saying "no" to someone trying to sell me something i didn't need.  whether it was a shopping friend ("how can you not get those shoes? they are perfect for you!") or a salesperson ("you'd be a fool to not buy this incredible offer."), or even a grumpy sales person ("that is so not your color!" "fine, i'll take it!!") ... but i'm the shopper. now, if i'm having a bad day, i avoid people and places who push me to do their choices, not mine. on better days, i can ignore them and just buy whatever i truly choose to buy.

finally, now that i'm starting to be able to let go of some things, i've learned to just do a little bit at a time.  cuz if i do too much too fast, i will panic.

just some things that came to mind that might help others.

happy de-cluttering! =)

Thanks for that link, I will go over there to see if anything can help me too.  My hording is stacking stuff in closets and "around".  My stuff has not got as bad as what was on tv but.....I was on that road....I put on my BRAKES......Hope to stop this before it gets worse.   

  

I have Attic that would take a bulldozier to get the stuff out, garage that is like a pigs pen, my room has storage stacked everywhere and closets full, corners full, desk where I type on comuter has over 500 items of just junk sitting here.  I have 2 storage buildings and they are full of junk. 

  

Logic would tell me that I have not needed any of that stuff in 2 yrs to get rid of it but when I see it, I get the idea "oh I may need that" or "I can use that one day" "I will hang on to that to see if its worth anything".  Its not worth it. 

  

Keeping that link here for others too:

http://www.squalorsurvivors.com